←2020-07-15 2020-07-16 2020-07-17→ ↑2020 ↑all
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03:52:39 <esowiki> [[The Temporary Stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75991&oldid=75837 * Bangyen * (+1)
03:53:22 <esowiki> [[RAM0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75992&oldid=75843 * Bangyen * (+54) /* Implementations */
04:04:29 <esowiki> [[Bitdeque]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75993&oldid=75946 * Bangyen * (-2)
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05:55:04 <esowiki> [[User:Salpynx/bf8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75994&oldid=75976 * Salpynx * (+1093) Fizz Buzz in maths
05:59:43 <int-e> `"
05:59:45 <HackEso> 1/1:1283) <hppavilion[1]> I have just learned about "SMASH FACE ON KEYBOARD; POST RESULTS". --- quit: hppavilion[1] (Quit: Leaving) --- join: hppavilion[1] [...] joined #esoteric <hppavilion[1]> ...that was the result, apparently <hppavilion[1]> Dammit, f4 \ 933) <kmc> it's almost like Haskell is a programming language and not some kind of mathematical rhetorical arguing device
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06:17:45 <esowiki> [[User:Salpynx/bf8]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75995&oldid=75994 * Salpynx * (+424) Truth-machine fn
06:50:27 <esowiki> [[BFStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75996&oldid=75594 * Bangyen * (+54)
06:51:05 <esowiki> [[RAM0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75997&oldid=75992 * Bangyen * (-54)
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07:27:47 <esowiki> [[User:Bangyen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75998&oldid=75971 * Bangyen * (+120) /* Implementations */
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09:07:42 <esowiki> [[6-5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=75999&oldid=75923 * The Esolanger * (-8) Made it finished
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10:29:11 <fizzie> Great job, Amazon UK. There's these two hard drive models (WD40EFRX and WD40EFAX) with the same branding, but the difference that the first one uses CMR while the second one uses (DM-)SMR. Amazon was selling both, with a £15 price difference.
10:29:17 <fizzie> Ordered the first one, because of the well-documented issues SMR can have in some workloads. They sent me the WD40EFAX model, inside a bubble wrap that had a WD40EFRX sticker on it.
10:29:25 <fizzie> Returned it, complained to customer service (who assured me that they'd put a note on my account to ensure it doesn't happen again), ordered it again.
10:29:32 <fizzie> They sent me *another* WD40EFAX drive, again in bubble wrap with a WD40EFRX sticker on it. So returned that too, and this time complained to product support, who got it "escalated" to an "investigation". They temporarily stopped selling the WD40EFRX on amazon.co.uk.
10:29:42 <fizzie> Went back now to check whether their investigation has concluded. What they've done is, they've updated the model name in the WD40EFRX product to say WD40EFAX as well, as if it was the same drive, but kept the other details of the WD40EFRX drive.
10:30:01 <fizzie> So now they're selling "WD Red 4TB NAS 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, SMR, 256 MB Cache - WD40EFAX" at £104 (fair enough), *and* "WD Red 4TB NAS 3.5 Inch Internal Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 64 MB Cache WD40EFAX" (which isn't even a thing that exists) at £120.
10:30:31 <fizzie> (This was all "Dispatched and sold by Amazon" stuff, not even third-party sellers.)
10:30:50 <fizzie> I think I've run out of ways to escalate that, so I guess I'll just give up. Sorry for the rant, just had to offload it somewhere.
10:38:22 <fizzie> (If you know any tech journalists who've been writing all those articles about the CMR-vs-SMR bait and switch, feel free to give them a tip, maybe that'd motivate someone to fix it properly.)
10:39:03 <int-e> :-/
10:42:30 <int-e> SMR seems to be making a very weird tradeoff (which I have yet to fully understand)
10:43:58 <int-e> As for bait&switch, I've only heard of this, fortunately.
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11:40:55 <fizzie> I don't think SMR would've meant much to me in practice (it'd be just one half of a classic RAID 1 mirror that doesn't get written a lot), just thought I'd rather not, and then it became more of a matter of not getting what I ordered.
11:40:59 <fizzie> Also, while they did the refund for the second return immadiately, the first one is still in "refund will be started once we receive your item" state even though the parcel tracking service says it was delivered to Amazon two weeks or so ago.
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11:43:53 <int-e> Highly annoying :-(
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12:48:51 <int-e> @check \a b -> (a `xor` b == 1) == (abs (a-b) == 1 && even (min a b))
12:48:53 <lambdabot> +++ OK, passed 100 tests.
12:58:48 <int-e> (I started out with the thing on the right.)
13:00:42 <int-e> I've been toying around with this: https://paste.debian.net/1156599/ (that is, count the number of solutions to that "Regnarok puzzle" I brought up yesterday.)
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13:11:02 <wib_jonas> `olist 1207
13:11:04 <HackEso> olist 1207: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
13:15:40 <arseniiv> fare well
13:19:34 <arseniiv> <int-e> I've been toying around with this: https://paste.debian.net/1156599/ => how do you think, can it be solved neatly without enumerating a massive amount of things on a computer? purely pencil and paper style?
13:23:17 <int-e> arseniiv: it's in the middle
13:23:52 <int-e> A bit more tedious than I'd be comfortable with on pen&paper.
13:24:01 <arseniiv> so, the kind of puzzle I’m not experienced with at all
13:24:13 <int-e> The keyword is dynamic programming.
13:24:29 <int-e> Also, it turns out this thing has an OEIS entry.
13:25:17 <int-e> You can use brute force too, it will finish.
13:25:31 <arseniiv> <int-e> Also, it turns out this thing has an OEIS entry. => a sequence for various dimensions of the Jormungard (oh I think I made at least three errors in there writing by memory)
13:25:34 <arseniiv> ?
13:25:54 <int-e> varying the width
13:26:29 <arseniiv> I’d vary the height too, I think there should be a decent generalization which leaves only two degree 3 vertices
13:27:04 <int-e> Well, I'd advise against it.
13:28:48 <int-e> (You can ask the question but the counting will get more difficult.)
13:31:12 <int-e> "so, the kind of puzzle I’m not experienced with at all" <-- also the kind of puzzle I tend to enjoy a lot
13:31:15 <wib_jonas> ``` cat olist.new > /hackenv/bin/olist
13:31:18 <HackEso> No output.
13:31:38 <int-e> `hbrl olist
13:31:39 <HackEso> hbrl? No such file or directory
13:31:45 <wib_jonas> olist will now print the URL of the strip if you give it just a number as the argument; it will keep printing the arguments verbatim otherwise
13:31:50 <int-e> `hurl bin/olist
13:31:51 <HackEso> File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.
13:31:56 <int-e> `hurl ../bin/olist
13:31:57 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/bin/olist
13:32:29 <wib_jonas> feel free to test in private message
13:33:15 <int-e> I just wanted to see the change.
13:33:35 <wib_jonas> it's bash black magic, I don't know how it works
13:34:01 <wib_jonas> I practicularly don't understand the xargs part that prints the tail, I just took that from the existing command
13:36:55 <int-e> arseniiv: https://gist.github.com/int-e/7bb736e366337379442d5899b3899963 is what I did :)
13:37:37 <int-e> (totally hardcoded to 4xn size)
13:38:53 <arseniiv> int-e: neat
13:39:07 <arseniiv> though I’m lazy to read it properly for now
14:25:35 <wib_jonas> "<arseniiv> BTW I find it suspicious how it became to be that English somehow didn’t have a reaction to sneezing of its own" => I think "bless you" is the normal reply
14:25:49 <wib_jonas> "gesundheit" just took over because it sounds better
14:26:08 <myname> also, germans tend to do world domination
14:26:23 <int-e> myname: speak for yourself
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14:53:34 <wib_jonas> "<fizzie> They sent me *another* WD40EFAX drive, again in bubble wrap with a WD40EFRX sticker on it." => hehe, https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html
14:54:27 <int-e> ... almost fell for that one.
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14:58:08 <wib_jonas> I hope you at least got your money back
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14:59:08 <wib_jonas> ah, "SMR" stands for shingled. that makes more sense
15:01:49 <wib_jonas> "<fizzie> Also, while they did the refund for the second return immadiately, the first one is still in "refund will be started once we receive your item" state even though the parcel tracking service says it was delivered to Amazon two weeks or so ago." ah
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15:45:47 <esowiki> [[Burro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76000&oldid=75954 * Chris Pressey * (+1768) Give an idiom for extensible conditional testing in Burro.
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17:39:30 <esowiki> [[Ix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76001&oldid=75980 * Orisphera * (+87)
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18:08:24 <rain1> I need a new hard disk, what would you recommend ?
18:08:50 <b_jonas> buy one
18:09:33 <zzo38> Yes, if you do not already have a suitable one.
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18:11:28 <rain1> whch one?
18:13:34 <zzo38> The one I have is Western Digital
18:14:54 <b_jonas> buy one from the other brand than your current one, then when you inevitably hear stories about why a particular brand of hard disks sucks, you at least won't think darn it, all my hard disks are of that brand
18:15:27 <b_jonas> I have both samsung and WD in my computer for that reason
18:16:21 <b_jonas> or, like, if all of them have a mistake or feature or backdoor that causes them to simultaneously die at a round mayan date or whatever, at least some of your hard disks have a chance to work
18:16:52 <rain1> haha
18:16:56 <rain1> have you tried SSD?
18:17:03 <rain1> i thought it was interesting but dont have one
18:17:14 <b_jonas> (of course, some of them might share pieces of software, in which case you're screwed anyway. it's like when I have vlc, mplayer and ffmpeg on my computer, but it turns out that the backend they use to compress h2.64 video is actually the same one library, so it's not like when there's a bug in one I can just use the other)
18:17:45 <b_jonas> rain1: I will buy an SSD, but not as a primary hard disk, just as a cache or hot stuff mostly. I don't trust SSDs to be reliable,
18:17:59 <b_jonas> in that they can just go completely unreadable out of the blue, more so than hard disks.
18:22:49 <rain1> oh that sounsd horrible
18:23:01 <zzo38> Is there the program to implement that caching? How would it be working effectively?
18:28:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think it's in the linux kernel, with some userspace stuff only to set it up, but I don't know the details
18:28:47 <b_jonas> I haven't bought an SSD yet so I haven't researched it
18:29:06 <b_jonas> I'll buy one "soon" (within ten years)
18:37:45 <fizzie> What I do with my SSD-and-HDD setup is, since the HDD is almost an order of magnitude larger than the HDD, I just have a thing to keep a mirror of the SSD contents on the HDD, updated once a day or so.
18:38:10 <fizzie> Although my personal experience with spinning disk failures has so far all been "went completely unreadable out of the blue" as well.
18:38:57 <fizzie> With the exception of one drive which was "was sending smartd error emails for a week before it went completely unreadable, but I wasn't reading that email address", which admittedly is more in the 'my fault' column.
18:39:16 <fizzie> s/than the HDD/than the SSD/
18:40:03 <fizzie> Only Banarch-Tarski brand HDDs are an order of magnitude larger than themselves.
18:41:39 <fizzie> My only advice is, don't try to buy a WD40EFRX from Amazon, for the reasons detailed earlier today.
18:41:57 <rain1> 2 of my disks are dead
18:42:13 <rain1> yeah that story got me thinking
18:59:47 <b_jonas> have multiple disks, any one could break
18:59:57 <b_jonas> no, I don't always follow my own advice about backups
19:00:05 <b_jonas> I'm probably not the right person to ask about them
19:00:09 <b_jonas> about backup best practices
19:03:21 <arseniiv> b_jonas: I think "bless you" is the normal reply => oh, forgot about that one
19:04:26 <arseniiv> when I think about backups, I realize I don’t have enough disks
19:06:26 <fizzie> The problem with many disks is, if you choose to make one bigger, you may need to make the others bigger as well, and then it may become expensive.
19:08:17 <fizzie> For example, the three disks in my backup rotation cycle (one in the machine receiving weekly incremental backups, one on the shelf here, and one in an underground vault at an undisclosed location in the Finnish bedrock) are all 3TB, while the "working drives" in this machine are 4TB, which only works because I've excluded a bunch of useless junk from being backed-up.
19:09:58 <fizzie> Right now the best price-per-unit-of-storage size seems to be either 6 TB or 8 TB, but if I were to switch to that, I'd need to buy approximately 5 of them.
19:19:39 <arseniiv> ah, I have less than 3 TB of non-backup space, and more than 200 GB is used to hold a file I don’t particularly want to have but it hasn’t anywhere else to go if I don’t want to devote one of removable disks to it, as there are just two and they hold backups. Though I should better place them in different locations, not in the same drawer centimeters apart
19:22:02 <arseniiv> BTW is there any merit to wrap a removable HDD in metal foil as a kind of Faraday cage, would it be effective against EMP from a nearby lightning and does that happen often enough to be one of the main threats?
19:31:22 <fizzie> I don't have any data to back this up (no terminology pun intended), but I would imagine that's not super high up the list of most common failure modes.
19:33:45 <b_jonas> arseniiv: I don't think so. if you want to protect against lightning, pull out all cables from the hard disk and any other equipment nearby.
19:34:02 <b_jonas> like, if it's still in a computer chasis, pull all the cables from the chasis
19:34:27 <b_jonas> a typical computer chasis is already a Faraday cage, the lightning comes in on cables
19:34:36 <b_jonas> not necessarily on the power cable, it can come from a network cable too
19:34:58 <b_jonas> PurpleStar TwitchSings *
19:35:00 <arseniiv> b_jonas: would that help from a nearby lightning which doesn’t cause a spike in the power network?
19:35:58 <b_jonas> arseniiv: I think so, if the cables are removed from all the other equipment nearby
19:36:03 <b_jonas> but I'm not an experts
19:36:18 <arseniiv> I heard right near a lightning, as rare as it may be to be as near, there are quite a large field intensities. I don’t remember if I read about remagnetizing stuff, but I think I saw that somewhere
19:36:37 <b_jonas> hard disk data isn't too vulnerable to lightning strikes anyway. the electronics may be, but if it's only the electronics that breaks, a hard disk can still be read
19:36:53 <b_jonas> so you can recover the data. when the electronics in an SSD breaks, you're screwed, there's no way to fix it.
19:37:11 <fizzie> That's a pretty relaxed definition of "can" though.
19:37:20 <arseniiv> yeah but one would need to get it to service which is not always as cheap(?..)
19:37:26 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, you need a recovery service
19:38:36 <b_jonas> still, easier to recover from than when misbehaving software or malware or misbehaving wetware corrupts/deletes all your data
19:39:23 <arseniiv> not necessarily on the power cable, it can come from a network cable too => hm also you reminded me it even may induce currents in the cables not connected to a power source or the like, and still fry something
19:40:00 <b_jonas> arseniiv: yes, I specifically said "pull out all cables from ... and any other equipment nearby."
19:40:13 <fizzie> I was promised proper storms when I moved to the UK, but there's been hardly any.
19:40:57 <b_jonas> also, make sure your house doesn't catch fire from the lightning. house fires don't usually destroy the hard disk, but they can cause other severe damage.
19:41:48 <b_jonas> and make sure that if a lightning strikes a tree it doesn't fall onto your car
19:41:58 <b_jonas> also doesn't destroy hard disks but still
19:46:09 <arseniiv> <b_jonas> also, make sure your house doesn't catch fire from the lightning => that can be pretty assured, it’s all bricks on the outside and concrete slabs somewhere inside :D
19:47:51 <b_jonas> arseniiv: yeah, you don't live in America, it's easier here
19:48:12 <arseniiv> and I don’t have a car yay. It certainly might be useful but it entails so much hassle with gasoline prices, service prices, bureaucracy and at the last it would be a hard thing to get a licence and actually drive with my degree of myopia :D
19:48:20 <b_jonas> although we still have some ugly building fires sometimes, even in concrete buildings
19:49:07 <arseniiv> I’d like to drive in an experimental environment where I don’t need to worry about having a license, just for fun to try it out
19:49:10 <b_jonas> but mostly plausibly deniable motivated ones, like last time it was the offices of a political party, with lots of documents stored inside, that burned down in the city
19:49:30 <b_jonas> and an old storage building right at my previous job
19:49:55 <arseniiv> yeah, plastics which burn readily and so on, but usually one needs to set them on fire in a solid manner
19:50:16 <b_jonas> arseniiv: you can certainly get a driving license with myopia. I have one, and I already had bad myopia back then.
19:50:31 <b_jonas> admittedly it did get a bit worse, mostly in that my two eyes desyced
19:50:37 <arseniiv> but I don’t see how I would drive in the city
19:50:38 <b_jonas> so I have much worse binocular vision now
19:50:51 <b_jonas> oh, I don't drive either, I just have a driving license
19:51:01 <b_jonas> the town is terrible, I'd be afraid to drive here
19:51:04 <arseniiv> ah :D
19:51:06 <b_jonas> I can drive when I'm away
19:51:30 <b_jonas> I got the license around when I started university.
19:51:59 <arseniiv> I don’t want to get a license for naught, it’s pretty much work and social interactions with dubious persons which would comment on my height or something
19:52:08 <b_jonas> "set them on fire in a solid manner" => good thing we have ubiquitious litium batteries for that now
19:52:21 <arseniiv> yeah
19:52:22 <b_jonas> they're not only in electric wheelchairs, they're in every consumer electronics device
19:52:25 <b_jonas> now
19:52:51 <b_jonas> but even without that, there's the old-school car fuel or alcohol or other easily flammable liquids
19:52:55 <b_jonas> that are easy to buy
19:53:44 <arseniiv> alcohol especially these times as an antiseptic
19:54:26 <b_jonas> yeah, all the pharma companies realized that stopping their factories and turning them to package hand sanitizers to tiny bottles earns them a lot of money, because there's a shortage of the bottles on the market, the actual alcohol and isopropil-alcohol is widely available, and
19:54:57 <b_jonas> unlike when making drugs, they don't need to follow all the expensive strict quality control laws to just make hand sanitizer bottles
19:55:02 <b_jonas> so now we don't have drugs
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20:20:41 <arseniiv> oh
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21:10:16 <zzo38> Could a multi resolution picture compression be done by predictive coding? Such as, to make a prediction based on the nearest smaller size, the nearest pixel to the value, perhaps.
21:15:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: we just use progressive jpegs for it mostly
21:15:21 <b_jonas> it's not perfect really
21:15:33 <b_jonas> but it's better than nothing
21:17:04 <zzo38> Well, for one thing, I want to use lossless compression.
21:17:53 <zzo38> Another thing is might be wanted to decode as CMYK+spots
21:42:12 <arseniiv> zzo38: do you intend to use that in TeXnicard for card images? Maybe it would be good to just vectorize all the images? (with a sufficiently high contour complexity so they would look pleasing)
21:42:29 <zzo38> arseniiv: No, I intend to use it for picture fonts.
21:43:11 <arseniiv> zzo38: ah, though I’d suggest the same here too
21:45:06 <arseniiv> usually the images in a picture font aren’t too complex, right? Even emojis with color shades can be more or less well represented in vector. If one is allowed to use a blur filter as in SVG, much more so, I’d think
21:47:01 <zzo38> OK, maybe it is; then just the pictures can be added using PostScript codes.
21:47:21 <zzo38> TeXnicard does have a convolution filter command, so you can use that if you need blur
21:53:01 <zzo38> (It is not using SVG)
22:40:26 <esowiki> [[User:Deppong]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76002 * Deppong * (+61) added to my own page
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23:31:21 <esowiki> [[Vertical]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76003 * Deppong * (+2087) Adding the Vertical programming language to the Esolang wiki
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23:32:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76004&oldid=75981 * Deppong * (+15) /* V */
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