< 1595204493 320553 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.4.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: saturation, intensity, hue as in CIELUV or CIEUVW (or alike), or like poor little HSL? < 1595204525 783691 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.4.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I initiated discussion and then I just log off < 1595204797 858109 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.4.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1595204924 922307 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I think is more closely related to HSL < 1595206811 126173 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wreuwawiyrbofgws QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1595207093 46049 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595208591 796997 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1595211857 101901 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76052&oldid=76036 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+330) 10/* Examples */ > 1595212208 282844 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Affine Mess14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76053&oldid=76029 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+35) 10Added cat < 1595217522 547699 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1595217583 838368 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1595221586 767183 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76054&oldid=74264 5* 03Truttle1 5* (+606) 10Added Subleq < 1595221628 222798 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1595222448 292502 :d3pp!~d3pp@2600:1700:1850:8d40::2c JOIN :#esoteric < 1595222679 757442 :d3pp!~d3pp@2600:1700:1850:8d40::2c QUIT :Client Quit < 1595222773 775686 :d3pp!~d3pp@2600:1700:1850:8d40::2c JOIN :#esoteric < 1595223167 614978 :d3pp!~d3pp@2600:1700:1850:8d40::2c QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 2.8 < 1595224950 829404 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1595225038 37542 :Lebster53!5ce8cecf@cpc151581-shef16-2-0-cust718.17-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595225053 489719 :Lebster53!5ce8cecf@cpc151581-shef16-2-0-cust718.17-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1595229843 352601 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1595231487 563741 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1595232233 512412 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1595232343 854344 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1595232511 884984 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595232683 835751 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1595234032 587444 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1595236738 384635 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1595237576 88035 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76055&oldid=76052 5* 03DanielCristofani 5* (+63) 10 < 1595239740 749360 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1595239822 836195 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1595239883 90533 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1595242137 215338 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.4.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1595242535 320752 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1595242613 103315 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1595242706 286153 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1595246960 271430 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1595247029 880161 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1595247047 388989 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1595247988 362706 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1595248033 122151 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1595249327 64722 :Heavpoot!92c672f8@248.114.198.146.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595249333 612492 :Heavpoot!92c672f8@248.114.198.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1595250141 56000 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1595250197 753486 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1595251592 874459 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heavpoot: Hello < 1595254289 811498 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595258184 916930 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1595259159 963269 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Rui14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76056&oldid=76055 5* 03Sinthorion 5* (+1470) 10Strict Rui < 1595260852 6086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595263035 586431 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1595264123 233176 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling NICK :Guest68516 < 1595264400 700721 :Guest68516!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1595268139 436904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Duckologist 5* 10New user account > 1595268559 82268 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76057&oldid=76048 5* 03Duckologist 5* (+219) 10Introduced myself > 1595268652 245647 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76058&oldid=65190 5* 03Duckologist 5* (+0) 10Fixed misspelling ("commamd" > "command") < 1595268732 958573 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1595269115 164910 :Heavpoot!92c672f8@248.114.198.146.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1595269530 275257 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric > 1595269883 237363 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:25614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76059&oldid=65292 5* 03Duckologist 5* (+375) 10/* "Stack-based" but uses variables? */ new section > 1595269932 107649 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:25614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76060&oldid=76059 5* 03Duckologist 5* (+92) 10Add "~~~~" < 1595271950 417228 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write some man pages for TeXnicard, although the distributor will have to edit some of them when making the package. Probably the man pages would be texnicard(1), texnicardpm(1), texnicardvc(1), and sepout(5), and the first three would mention what directory to find the other documentation files, as well as other files (such as system.ps and newdb.sql, both of which are needed at runtime). < 1595272004 912699 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much is done with other programs, where the distributors will need to edit the man pages in this way? < 1595272074 636669 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1595272443 141780 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I recall that Miredo uses macroified manpages (as so: https://github.com/fgp/miredo/blob/1.2-patches/doc/miredo-server.8-in#L81 ) < 1595272550 521071 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, troff macros would work, I suppose. Although, it looks like that isn't using troff macros; it is something else, it look like < 1595273167 644129 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :managed to finish the `load` instruction for RAM. performs surprisingly quick. > 1595273187 78743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725614]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76061&oldid=76058 5* 03Duckologist 5* (+1) 10Fix typo ("lenth" > "length") < 1595273315 266376 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hastebin.com/axerexubam.txt < 1595273510 210656 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :performance isn't great but I think I can just expose some builtins to seek to a particular pattern left or right. < 1595273529 73589 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to having to move through each and every data bit. < 1595274449 798873 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh btw, I complained about github using "Cancel" in a confusing way a while back. I've run into this again and this time I understand my thought process. https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cancel-cancel.png ... I'm trying to cancel something, that's the last thing I clicked. It doesn't really matter what the text inside the popup says. < 1595274751 862233 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shbpeknakpttcapk JOIN :#esoteric < 1595275043 725596 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595275345 147816 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7120:721d:1d25:4fa1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1595275448 976920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Palace14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76062&oldid=76038 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+1) 10/* Predecesor */ typo > 1595275470 139414 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76063 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+821) 10Created page with "I think of esolang ideas as hobbies/mathematical exercises. The only language I've posted to the wiki is [[Affine Mess]], but there may be more coming. I'm currently working o..." < 1595275587 781280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: does it also have "Would you like to consider such-and-such process? Yes, No, Cancel" < 1595275672 36315 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a preference for [Yes] [Ok] [Continue]. < 1595275709 753698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, I don't think it has that kind of confusing ternary logic. < 1595275718 768428 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail. < 1595275726 487366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE|FALSE|FILE_NOT_FOUND < 1595275745 649088 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, good old dailywtf < 1595275752 695003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's an actual DOS prompt, or close enough to fool me < 1595275756 866420 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that still exist? < 1595275804 424631 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: of course? < 1595275824 334836 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know, nothing is certain on the WWW) < 1595275853 127388 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got boring after a while though. < 1595275874 346608 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember the quality (and espacially the quantity) varying widely between entries < 1595275888 114226 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is still sometimes used, such as with DOSBOX. Some people still write DOS programs. < 1595275900 105597 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: That goes with the territory. < 1595275903 322184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I looked around, and while I really feel like "Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail" did exist, the Internet suggests it was just "Abort, Retry, Ignore?" and then in DOS 3.3 changed to "Abort, Retry, Fail?". < 1595275918 484973 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It's a bit like writing comedy but they don't discard the 95% that are not funny enough. < 1595275951 369183 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still remember my favourite comments about the doRunRun() < 1595275965 556347 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: With my own experience of DOS, that is what seems to be the case, and not "Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail". < 1595275965 990532 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Having both Abort and Fail is pretty awful. < 1595275995 419209 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although it might depend on what the operation is.) < 1595276017 380369 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://thedailywtf.com/articles/comments/A-Method-by-Any-Other-Name there it is < 1595276037 419779 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You met it on a Monday and your heart stood still. The doRunRunRun(), the doRunRun()." < 1595276039 139363 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm actually satisfied by the fact that all four verbs featured at some point in time. < 1595276090 668287 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added this file for the distributor to set the directory names to be listed in the man page: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/texnicard.ui/artifact/bfa6bfece7ddb6fd < 1595276107 448663 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual Basic famously had the 'On Error Resume Next' directive, for when you didn't want to worry about error handling. < 1595276130 447637 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :loved that < 1595276138 191468 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, s/had/has/, it's not like it's gone anywhere. < 1595276148 391203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/visual-basic/language-reference/statements/on-error-statement "Specifies that when a run-time error occurs, control goes to the statement immediately following the statement where the error occurred, and execution continues from that point." < 1595276205 882829 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: is that a setup for a Duran Duran joke < 1595276206 713244 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, and in the DOS BASIC also. < 1595276242 158744 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-qqi7-Q19k > 1595276602 461123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76064&oldid=76063 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+0) 10Removed ambiguity < 1595276884 504698 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-104-154.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595277467 730811 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@nat-pool-13-124.soborka.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1595277678 341372 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:25614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76065&oldid=76060 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+346) 10 < 1595277759 959978 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1595277899 155944 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 JOIN :#esoteric > 1595278022 706791 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Transfinity14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76066 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+4585) 10+[[Transfinity]] > 1595278029 551838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76067&oldid=76039 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+18) 10+[[Transfinity]] > 1595278033 920857 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76068&oldid=76040 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+18) 10+[[Transfinity]] < 1595278302 893351 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.4.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1595278468 874531 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.4.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1595278808 806984 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1595279132 136460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, and I might add, since visual basic has stupid conditions that you can only recognize by catching an error, even such as looking up an object by name in some collections of objects, you often want to ignore errors for just one line, in which case On Error Resume Next is simpler. I still tend to use On Error Goto , because it's cleaner, and more versions of visual basic support < 1595279138 93170 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it. > 1595279511 821803 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:25614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76069&oldid=76065 5* 03Duckologist 5* (+160) 10/* -- (and ++) is used in code samples but not mention in specs? */ new section < 1595281512 885969 :LKoen!~LKoen@81.255.219.130 QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1595282275 378187 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0725614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76070&oldid=76061 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+84) 10/* Computational class */ Weakened claim about Turing completeness > 1595282833 527123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Unicode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76071&oldid=69950 5* 03IFcoltransG 5* (+130) 10A bit more detail < 1595283039 580644 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1595283064 569223 :laerling!~laerling@static.235.77.203.116.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Changing host < 1595283064 569279 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1595283948 198297 :spruit11!~unknown@ip56522cc1.speed.planet.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1595284592 48339 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.4.55.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1595285017 416455 :tromp!~tromp@ip-213-127-104-154.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1595285048 324608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:25614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76072&oldid=76069 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+221) 10 < 1595285762 45203 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1595285804 972067 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1595286054 909579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1595286083 152804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh btw, I complained about github using "Cancel" in a confusing way a while back. ← a reminder that under the modern UI principle where one button states the action you're trying to perform and the other states "Cancel", /both/ buttons should have been marked "Cancel" < 1595286111 366620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol < 1595286128 669575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be "Cancel, Cancel"? which one should be on the left? < 1595286154 286546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which one should be the default for pressing enter, the other presumably getting activated from pressing escape or closing the window? < 1595286293 466832 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should think, the one to perform the action is done if you push enter, and escape will make it to not do, can be the way to do. < 1595286307 440443 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although maybe it should be yes/no) < 1595286325 183829 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok, but how about in the case of this "Cancel, Cancel" dialog? < 1595286454 704311 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, is that only when you cancel an action planned in the future where the action hasn't started and the UI is waiting in a dialog to give input for the action, or also when the action is already in progress and the user interrupted it and wants to abandon it mid-run? < 1595286654 522501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the button to accept the cancel is on the right, to cancel the cancel is on the left < 1595286659 164369 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1595286668 892467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Return should accept the cancel, Esc should cancel the cancel < 1595286692 183474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think the latter of your two cases is more important, in the former then cancelling the action normally shouldn't require a confirmation < 1595286707 153247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it involves other people, in which case better wording would be, e.g., "are you sure you want to delete this appointment?" < 1595286741 298887 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net NICK :Arcorann < 1595286755 265516 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, though in windows, cancelling an installer before it starts making changes usually still asks for confirmation, even if it's effectively required because it told you it can't install something due to lack of a dependency < 1595286786 876788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is mostly just the installer manufacturers being self-important, isn't it? < 1595286795 965344 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cancel dialog can make sense for cases like that when you've made lots of tricky data entry in the dialog for the action that you might not want to have to repeat < 1595286802 651025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the installers taking ages to load < 1595286803 339433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1595286818 840901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used to, these days they don't take that much time to load (on a modern machine) < 1595286821 227067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, though, on a well-designed OS, the installer should require very little configuration or user intervention < 1595286906 701014 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user may wish to customize the installation though < 1595286929 242814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'd prefer them to give more choices to me. there are installers that insist on changing system-global settings or user-global settings that don't need to be changed to use the program, and installers that insist on installing system-globally if your user is in the administrator group that can gain privilages to do that, even though the installer can install the program user-locally if you run it < 1595286935 283544 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a non-administrator user < 1595286943 642858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which OS is this on? < 1595286946 556564 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 10 < 1595286956 662552 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not all installers are like that, some are saner < 1595286964 719060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for NetHack4 I made the Windows installer system-global only, because the Windows Installer support for system-global versus user-global installation is actually broken < 1595286977 712152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it conditionally replaces some directories on the install path but not all of them < 1595287015 652101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other breakages, e.g. the intended use involves linking Start menu entries to registry entries for no obvious reason < 1595287039 653278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly many installers on windows are much better < 1595287046 687845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NH4's installer hits a large number of validation failures if run through the official validator for installers, they're all intentional and all working around misfeatures < 1595287081 812027 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can install git for windows, which I install not really for git but for the usable MSYS installation and lots of simple MSYS programs bundled with it, and I can install that without changing anything global < 1595287089 50433 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are other nice installers like that < 1595287170 696435 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be downloaded without the installer? < 1595287191 166824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, as a self-extracting zip file that I can extract with 7zip < 1595287216 229489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I extract it, and then it has a post-install batch file that it says you have to run once to run git, but IIRC you don't need it to run MSYS < 1595287264 875161 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how I install MSYS, with its putty-based mintty terminal, vim, and command-line utilities like find and grep, on windows machines these days < 1595287308 105900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even installs a perl interpreter, though that one is one built for an MSYS target, which is not as good as one built for a windows target (in which windows support still sucks, mind you). this still applies to some of the other MSYS programs, but those are still usable. < 1595287394 209776 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9d3e:8b22:f788:6f9f JOIN :#esoteric < 1595287434 701590 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are on Windows 10 then you might want to install the program in WSL, perhaps, instead of MSYS < 1595287436 216824 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also install 7zip; that one does really need to access the registry, because I want the explorer plugin. If you only want the command-line client, you can just copy it; if you only want the 7z GUI program, I don't know if you need to install. < 1595287470 699278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I haven't really researched WSL, but I don't think that's what I want < 1595287532 313662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want a linux runtime on windows, I want utilities like grep and vim on windows, programs that make sense on either system, but I want a version that's close to something built to native windows, they just don't happen to have a native port close than that. < 1595287533 989718 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly some programs you may want to be in Windows, although sometimes WSL will work, and sometimes you might want both, I suppose. But if the program is a Linux program and you are installing it on WSL, then I don't know if it has provisions for installing stuff into the start menu < 1595287609 445915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also other programs that I could probably use without at least a user-global installation on windows 10, but haven't yet figured out how to do it. < 1595287702 158191 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9d3e:8b22:f788:6f9f QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1595287779 804738 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm asking about the difference between the two cases mostly because in the first case the labels would still be the same when the GUI language is different, whereas in the latter case they might differ < 1595287905 331092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, some languages have different words in common usage for "unschedule" versus "curtail"? < 1595287922 579651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's not surprising, there are unambiguous words for that in English, they just aren't used very often < 1595288017 118351 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it depends, "interrupt" would sort of work for the latter in English, only that doesn't clearly say that you won't finish the work, you might continue it after an interruption; "abandon" or "exit" or "I changed my mind" might work in both cases < 1595288048 57179 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are unambiguous words for them in Hungarian either, but your preferred word might change < 1595288068 459441 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because cancel buttons normally say "Mégse", which corresponds better to the first case < 1595288098 199989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"curtail" is almost unambiguous (in theory the verb could refer to scheduling the cancellation of an ongoing process at some future time, but that's unlikely to be what the user wants) < 1595288107 570710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's rarely used < 1595288157 535091 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's also "give up" < 1595288178 696245 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only that, the formal equivalent "forfeit" wouldn't work < 1595288189 853057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm amazed that "GO AWAY" isn't an INTERCAL command < 1595288204 431763 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, "leave" < 1595288225 420243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would jump to a random (numbered?) line and start executing from there? seems fairly easy to implement, albeit even less useful than most features in INTERCAL < 1595288264 639358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think almost all Finnish cancel buttons say "peruuta", which is the imperative mood of the verb "peruuttaa", which has a couple of context-sensitive uses (of a vehicle, to back up; of a marriage, to annul; and so on), even when better alternatives would exist. < 1595288288 419322 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "annul" < 1595288307 412932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think INTERCAL is better off having commands that are quirky but usable, rather than entirely useless < 1595288318 588084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd like to see "dissolve" in a GUI as well.) < 1595288327 308320 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it is probably correct < 1595288332 321932 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, when would you use that? < 1595288395 570975 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Abandon" would probably have worked on most cancel buttons in English, but it's probably too late to change that now < 1595288415 547217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe when you've made some sort of a grouping, and decide to remove it. < 1595288426 411997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's still ambiguous in the cancel-a-cancel case < 1595288433 535775 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1595288455 296735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what it's worth, "discard" has seen a recent surge of usage for the "accept a cancel" case < 1595288478 834217 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1595288499 50384 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1595288720 756039 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, another GUI confirmation dialog box that I dislike is in VBA, when you want to delete a module from the project. it asks something to the effect of "Would you like to export this module before deleting it?" and only has Yes and No as buttons. If it had a Cancel button to make it not delete the module, it would be better, but since it only has Yes and No, as a user you can think it's asking < 1595288726 844973 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to confirm deleting the module and give the opposite answer. < 1595288827 799098 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a small complaint. the positive side is that you can script the VBA editor itself with the same VBA and just type something like VBE.Module("module name here").Remove into the Immediate window to delete a module without a confirmation prompt. < 1595288877 257440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it delete the module for both yes and no? < 1595288889 151725 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but it won't delete it if you cancel the save dialog < 1595288958 382250 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is useful because importing a VBA module from a file (after deleting its previous version) is a reasonable way to do a string eval after running an external program to write you VBA code, and you may want that because VBA is not a very good language, so you may want to do computations in a separate program, though it seems you can also just mostly avoid VBA entirely and use the COM interface of the < 1595288964 439062 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :program that you're macroing directly from a program in some other language < 1595289033 955635 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the possible exception that you may need to write at least a VBA stub for a custom command that you want to assign to a menu entry or toolbar button or keyboard shortcut in the program that you're macroing, but there's probably a way to do even that without VBA, I just don't know it < 1595289093 955244 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus of course in programs that have a macro recorder (the one that I'm macroing doesn't), that usually emits the syntax of only one macro language, with the notable exception of Excel < 1595289137 378730 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shbpeknakpttcapk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1595289212 484540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there a version of Word after Word 6 that still has WordBasic but also has a COM interface? or maybe a version of CorelDraw or WordPerfect that has both CorelBasic and a COM interface? or a version of LibreOffice for windows with a COM interface? < 1595289250 765447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter might be the most likely, since I think you can't use COM interface on a non-windows platform < 1595289279 767308 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least I think you can't use it on Linux, I don't know about windows < 1595289329 882025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a port of Excel 5, the program that introduced VBA, onto Mac OS classic, maybe that has VBA support < 1595289476 482381 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:9d3e:8b22:f788:6f9f JOIN :#esoteric < 1595289517 261512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, Wine is a windows platform, just as Cygwin is a unix platform) < 1595289541 872782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1595289544 466331 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is XPCOM, but I don't know if they use it < 1595289594 232523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-126.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and DOS4GW is a ... dunno)