←2020-08-01 2020-08-02 2020-08-03→ ↑2020 ↑all
00:01:07 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76391&oldid=76384 * TwilightSparkle * (-6) /* COME BACK LYXAL!!! */ Removed two more bytes
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00:26:48 <esowiki> [[Talk:Math&Matrix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76392 * TwilightSparkle * (+251) Created page with "I feel like this language should be more related to math itself. It seems to haved syntax represented with "matrix" but real math doesn't do much. ~~~~"
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01:27:31 <Cale> Idea: Machine with infinitely wide Möbius band as memory. It can only write one symbol onto the band, which looks like ^, but if it walks around in the finite direction and makes its way back to that cell, it will see v instead.
01:29:08 <zzo38> Yes, I like that idea, make up something with that, or perhaps to put in list of ideas in wiki, maybe
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01:42:59 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76393&oldid=76391 * TwilightSparkle * (+172) /* Do-while loop */
01:44:53 <b_jonas> Cale: is that basically like a turing machine with one tape and three symbols where the head can only write over blank cells?
01:45:26 <Cale> It can also write over filled cells, I think
01:45:35 <Cale> but it can only write ^
01:45:49 <b_jonas> so you can have both ^ and v in the same cell?
01:45:58 <Cale> Well, it'll just replace what's in the cell
01:46:04 <b_jonas> oh
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02:24:52 <pikhq> Cale: Cute
02:27:29 <pikhq> posix_spawn() IIRC was spec'd just to give an interface that can have some of the perf benefits from vfork() without having the utter specification nightmare
02:28:10 <pikhq> (and on good implementations, for things that can be done with posix_spawn it will use vfork() or something analogous for implementation)
02:56:16 <zzo38> It would seem that opponent can pay life to protect your lands too, with the Magic: the Gathering card "Cleansing"; sometimes this is useful.
02:58:10 <zzo38> (See https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Topic:Vr9ekwbia7l4g6jp for one example)
03:02:53 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76394&oldid=76393 * TwilightSparkle * (-205) /* Hard */
03:04:30 <shachaf> pikhq: Too bad the posix_spawn API is awful.
03:04:39 <pikhq> It is.
03:05:05 <shachaf> My wrapper is a bit better at least.
03:05:32 <shachaf> Do they actually expect people to check error conditions a for every file action and everything?
03:05:55 <rain1> that is a great idea
03:06:17 <shachaf> When the main way these things can fail is ENOMEM.
03:07:06 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76395&oldid=76394 * TwilightSparkle * (-85) /* Equality */
03:09:14 <pikhq> shachaf: yes
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04:00:19 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/VRsf3B Do you like this? Do you have other ideas please?
04:21:59 <esowiki> [[PRASCAL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76396 * Salpynx * (+2093) Stub for a high-level `Pataphysical programming language based on PASCAL, from 2016
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04:26:21 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76397&oldid=76395 * TwilightSparkle * (+75)
05:27:22 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76398&oldid=76397 * TwilightSparkle * (+24) /* Hard */
05:28:41 <zzo38> Apparently, someone said that the best design of Unix is that a line break is only one byte.
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10:55:56 <int-e> zzo38: that's akin to saying that Ferrari has the best cars because they're red.
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13:24:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: unix isn't the only thing that's designed in a way that the terminal device replaces the line separtor to a crlf on output (because that's what line printers want) and a cr with a line separator on input (because cr is what the keyboard gives). older platforms just do it more sanely by using the cr as the line separator, which means there's only one replacement.
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16:33:12 <zzo38> int-e: OK, although I just mentioned what someone else said, whether or not it is any good.
16:33:57 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, although I thought I remembered seeing that Unix was designed with using with terminals having keys for both carriage return and line feed, but either one would do in many cases.
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16:36:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: and some keyboards have backspace so you don't have to press shift-left-arrow to go left one position then delete to delete a character. what luxury!
16:44:15 <spruit11> That is the road to anarchy.
16:46:58 <b_jonas> just 26 letters, 10 digits, a space bar, and three modifiers, on a cheap foil keyboard, where you have to wait for the cpu to process your previous key to press the next one. who needs backspace?
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18:29:08 <zzo38> Do you like the ideas I posted before about a role playing game and do you have some further ideas?
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20:21:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nicerobot * New user account
20:24:47 <int-e> fungot: did you know that 2.5937424601^2.85311670611 = 2.85311670611^2.5937424601?
20:24:47 <fungot> int-e: and the channel wasn't active
20:27:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76399&oldid=76385 * Nicerobot * (+126) Introduction
20:27:45 <esowiki> [[User:Nicerobot]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76400 * Nicerobot * (+5) Created page with "Nice!"
20:32:46 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, there's like a whole one-parameter solution for that thing
20:33:24 <int-e> b_jonas: yeah that's what I've (re-)discovered, and been playing with.
20:33:42 <int-e> I found this one cute because despite the use of decimal points it's exact.
20:33:52 <b_jonas> int-e: oh
20:34:23 <int-e> a = (1+1/k)^k, b = (1+1/k)^(k+1) (note the connection to e) satisfy a^b = b^a; I took k=10.
20:35:00 <b_jonas> something like that
20:37:21 <int-e> bonus: k must be an integer (which we can take to be positive) for both a and b to be rational.
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20:56:55 <AidanBaidicoot> test
20:57:35 <int-e> `relcome AidanBaidicoot
20:57:37 <HackEso> AidanBaidicoot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:58:34 <AidanBaidicoot> I have been here before I was just checking if anyone from the esolangs discord was here yet. the admin is being annoying and so we are testing out a move
20:59:43 <b_jonas> `? discord
20:59:45 <HackEso> The unofficial Esolangs and code golf Discord server: https://discord.gg/3UXSK5p
20:59:46 <b_jonas> this one?
21:00:17 <AidanBaidicoot> yep
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21:01:06 <osmarks> greetings, apioids.
21:01:14 <AidanBaidicoot> greetings
21:01:25 <osmarks> Wait, palaiologos runs this? Hmmm.
21:01:46 <AidanBaidicoot> I don't think she does but idk. she keeps logs afaik
21:02:14 <Sinthorion> I don't know much about IRC. Do channels have a single "owner"?
21:02:19 <osmarks> I don't think so.
21:02:54 <AidanBaidicoot> actually, there was someone who kept logs, who were they?
21:03:15 <osmarks> The esolangs website has logs.
21:03:16 <Sinthorion> palaiologos once said she keeps logs
21:03:18 <osmarks> it says so in the topic.
21:03:23 <osmarks> Also my crawler found them by accident.
21:03:41 <b_jonas> osmarks: no, palaiologos is one of the three people who keeps logs
21:03:44 <b_jonas> `? logs
21:03:46 <HackEso> ​#esoteric channel logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/
21:03:52 <b_jonas> ^ three of those are active, one is historical only
21:04:26 <AidanBaidicoot> ah, thank you.
21:05:15 <osmarks> Interesting.
21:06:06 <zzo38> Well, some people (such as myself) do not like Discord, and IRC is better. As for who owns it, whether or not that is the case can depend on the IRC server and on the channel registration; Freenode has channel registration, so you can examine it using the CS command (try CS HELP for help about how to do it).
21:09:23 <Sinthorion> Discord and IRC are fundamentally different and hard to compare.
21:09:46 <Sinthorion> Discord has tons of features I like that IRC lacks
21:10:12 <zzo38> In some cases, it is true, in some cases, people think so but actually it isn't true.
21:10:28 <b_jonas> that's because IRC is a tool, Discord is a framework. we're unix guys, we like tools.
21:10:33 <b_jonas> tools that do one thing.
21:14:55 <pikhq> On the one hand, IRC is a network protocol designed in 1989 and it shows.
21:15:09 <pikhq> On the other hand, IRC is a network protocol designed in 1989 and it shows.
21:15:30 <Sinthorion> ^
21:15:42 <spruit11> Find me a programmer with one hand!
21:15:44 <zzo38> IRC can be used even without the IRC software (although, use of IRC software is helpful)
21:15:56 * pikhq has done so, in fact
21:16:04 <Sinthorion> what do you mean by IRC software?
21:16:08 <int-e> so many PONGs
21:16:12 <pikhq> mhm
21:16:57 <b_jonas> that means the protocol is simple enough for client side and made of mostly stuff that is optional for clients, so you can implement your own software
21:17:05 <int-e> An IRC client that speaks the IRC protocol so you don't have to worry about the commands (like "PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much text")
21:17:34 <zzo38> Yes, PONG is one reason why IRC software is helpful, since if you do not have it, then you would have to write PONG manually instead.
21:18:09 <int-e> Separating messages by target is also very helpful. So... yes, you *can* use netcat but it's not fun at all.
21:19:19 <b_jonas> what hole?
21:19:40 <Sinthorion> Couldn't you *technically* use Discord with a custom client the same way? It's not an open protocol, so you'd have to reverse engineer it. Or use the public API which might have somewhat reduced functionality.
21:19:41 <b_jonas> just walk
21:19:50 <b_jonas> sorry, wrong channel again
21:20:05 <b_jonas> Sinthorion: perhaps you could, but it's much more complicated
21:20:22 <pikhq> And unlike with IRC, not an intended property of how things work
21:20:44 <pikhq> This is a decision with upsides and downsides both.
21:20:59 <Sinthorion> yes
21:21:26 <zzo38> Yes, although Discord is complicated and proprietary, and is only a single company, and other problems, and still needs some client software; IRC can be used even without any client software.
21:24:08 <Sinthorion> I've never seen an IRC channel not on Freenode. So while technically it can be hosted by any organisation, the fact is that everyone still uses the same.
21:24:41 <zzo38> I have seen other IRC networks, but mostly Freenode.
21:27:12 <b_jonas> I've seen more IRC channels on freenode than on the dozen or so other IRC networks that I ever joined taken all together
21:27:33 <zzo38> Yes, same with me
21:27:56 <zzo38> I currently have no IRC service in my computer, but I do have a NNTP server, and implemented a nonstandard command for convenience of people who are not using NNTP software, too.
21:29:37 <zzo38> (Because, I think that IRC and NNTP are much better than many of the more modern stuff.)
21:29:39 <osmarks> NNTP? Isn't that usenet?
21:29:44 <osmarks> i.e. very ancient?
21:29:55 <pikhq> I'm currently on 3 distinct IRC networks.
21:30:21 <zzo38> osmarks: Yes, although it is still in use, and improvements have been made since the original version.
21:30:49 <zzo38> (Actually, I may be responsible for increasing the article numbers from 31-bits to 63-bits.)
21:31:32 <b_jonas> just like how IRC gets a lot of new optional features all the time too
21:31:50 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose so.
21:32:34 <b_jonas> the good part is that they're all optional so you can support only the ones you want on your client
21:32:44 <b_jonas> the bad part is that many of them differ from network to network
21:32:52 <zzo38> Yes, is good that it is optional.
21:34:22 <zzo38> Well, the server often includes help files, and commands can be entered manually, so it isn't too much problem.
21:35:44 <pikhq> tradeoffs!
21:52:48 <b_jonas> sadly the help file doesn't tell about everything
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21:53:15 <zzo38> Some of the other stuff will be mentioned in the RFC
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23:49:24 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76401&oldid=76399 * TheCoderPro * (+265) /* Introductions */
23:52:43 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76402&oldid=57291 * TheCoderPro * (+121) /* The Instruction set */
23:55:33 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76403&oldid=76402 * TheCoderPro * (+390) /* The Instruction set */
23:56:26 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76404&oldid=76403 * TheCoderPro * (+6) /* The Instruction set */
23:56:50 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76405&oldid=76404 * TheCoderPro * (+5) /* The Instruction set */
23:57:12 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76406&oldid=76405 * TheCoderPro * (+5) /* The Instruction set */
23:58:02 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76407&oldid=76406 * TheCoderPro * (+101) /* The Instruction set */
←2020-08-01 2020-08-02 2020-08-03→ ↑2020 ↑all