< 1596587207 314977 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-ibwhbzcuhjjiwgva QUIT :Quit: lol rip < 1596587318 774421 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1596587589 128188 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1596587719 915448 :ATMunn!ATMunn@gateway/shell/hellomouse/x-ueubxpvgkvmpluzr JOIN :#esoteric < 1596587746 437222 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1596588851 623457 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1596589041 946737 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1596590472 313315 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596590906 180326 :shinh_!~i@om126133233183.21.openmobile.ne.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1596590960 916453 :shinh_!~i@39.110.229.193 JOIN :#esoteric > 1596590986 293196 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:ZippyMagician/Ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76438&oldid=76352 5* 03ZippyMagician 5* (-2292) 10Fix a major issue in the docs < 1596592989 820821 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596593910 974834 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fibgouyioygerxzk PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right, here's my favorite OEIS sequence today. < 1596593917 942912 :tswett[m]!tswettmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fibgouyioygerxzk PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oeis.org/A139138 - Numbers divisible by at least two of their digits. :D < 1596594856 51288 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-clfptxdaujhcobju PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, that's a cute sequence < 1596597486 365975 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1596597601 311825 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596599315 681736 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1596599400 83507 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596604966 283863 :xelxebar_!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in < 1596604990 866060 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1596606182 814566 :shinh_!~i@39.110.229.193 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1596606213 993859 :shinh_!~i@om126133233183.21.openmobile.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric > 1596608187 208832 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Grid14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76439&oldid=71289 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-10) 10 > 1596608229 540116 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subreal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76440&oldid=76413 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+754) 10Examples: Fib! < 1596608368 756798 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1596609601 788550 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric < 1596610540 239970 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.234 JOIN :#esoteric > 1596610900 184879 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subreal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76441&oldid=76440 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+46) 10/* Control flow operations */ > 1596611654 605804 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:E62qpodb59314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76442 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+314) 10Created page with "== Golfing language? == This looks too verbose to be a golfing language. Most golfing languages have straight-forward string outputting like "Hello, World!", not..." > 1596611830 783067 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+/Snippets14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76443&oldid=76425 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+90) 10/* Pop */ > 1596611871 370920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+/Snippets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76444&oldid=76443 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (-10) 10/* Easy */ < 1596613153 857399 :rain1!~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oeis.org/A087140 < 1596613884 754550 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1596614017 372009 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric > 1596614224 873604 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07NoRAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76445&oldid=76407 5* 03TheCoderPro 5* (+79) 10/* External resources */ < 1596614878 116987 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1596614983 851475 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1596615050 82746 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1596615757 211064 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I imagine A139138 would increase roughly logarithmically < 1596615846 858276 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1596616589 385927 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1596620578 341618 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596621343 868962 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-46.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1596623240 800661 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Subreal14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76446&oldid=76441 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+26) 10Base 32! > 1596624019 155025 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03RealestLink 5* 10New user account > 1596624284 529243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76447&oldid=76428 5* 03RealestLink 5* (+237) 10 > 1596624536 295904 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76448&oldid=75596 5* 03RealestLink 5* (+1) 10Fixed the invite link to "Compilers and Interpreters" < 1596625892 969952 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1596627424 100128 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596628844 37984 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1596630739 77997 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :question. have you designed or implemented some kind of network protocol, like HTTP or IRC or ssh but not something as well-spread but possibly just a toy application that only you use, and that intends to have a tcp server listening on a fixed port for a long time, whether to do all the communication or just for initiating a connection? if so, < 1596630739 617155 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried to add a feature such that if someone accidentally connects to that tcp server with an entirely wrong client, such as a HTTP browser or telnet client, then the server will likely send them a human-readable message that tells them what they did wrong and optionally what this tcp server is for? > 1596630793 503878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Razetime 5* 10New user account < 1596630818 241515 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so, have you tried to optimize this such that you can send this reply possibly immediately as a fixed header, or at least after the other party sends just very little data to you and without having to wait for a long timeout? < 1596630997 247020 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: "I imagine A139138 would increase roughly logarithmically" => impossible, it is a strictly increasing sequence of integers that contains every integer that is congruent to 11 modulo 100 > 1596631053 386781 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76449&oldid=76447 5* 03Razetime 5* (+160) 10/* Introductions */ > 1596631064 425098 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76450&oldid=76131 5* 03Razetime 5* (+40) 10Added truth machine < 1596631220 549123 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: that is true > 1596632721 124299 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76451&oldid=76191 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (-41) 10/* Commands and syntax */ Wrong > 1596632962 208131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[071+/Snippets14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76452&oldid=76444 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+124) 10/* Hard */ < 1596634752 873815 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1596634772 908019 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1596635165 435657 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76453&oldid=76450 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (-447) 10/* Computational class */ The proof is completely wrong. > 1596635370 675609 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76454&oldid=76453 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+88) 10/* Computational class */ > 1596635393 289613 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76455&oldid=76454 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (-2) 10/* Computational class */ < 1596636486 35701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596636525 28925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: I implemented such a service, but the outermost layer is TLS and if someone unexpected tries to connect, the TLS won't even work < 1596636532 120457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no scope to do something like you're suggesting < 1596636550 224459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need to put such a fixed-error-message output into the TLS implementation rather than the application < 1596636558 852432 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Copyrighted material are also strictly prohibited." -- always a good laugh, that. < 1596636569 747802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine other people in the same situation would have had the same issue < 1596636597 161214 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thank you. but will it fail also if someone connects with a different client that uses TLS, such as a HTTPS client or IRC client with TLS enabled? < 1596636625 178438 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does TLS have a built-in high-level protocol marker that you're using for this? < 1596636665 530738 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, for that you'd probably have to modify the TLS library to support this < 1596636671 99877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the server end wouldn't be able to see what the client end was sending due to a certificate error < 1596636690 955211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the client end, I think it'd just see the connection closing < 1596636702 117379 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't need to see what the client is sending to send an error message < 1596636706 529166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could modify the TLS library to send something using the client's actual certificate even if it wasn't recognised < 1596636710 131159 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you're using a client certificate? < 1596636711 43161 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1596636715 910240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, client certificate < 1596636724 61705 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that explains it < 1596636733 844416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess most people don't do that < 1596636738 261606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a very simple way to do auth < 1596636786 129463 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but you could also do it optionally, as in run a single Apache that listens on https, and some of the things it serve require a client cert, but just a hello world page or an error message doesn't < 1596636796 760182 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/serve/serves/ < 1596636882 540384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could make it work < 1596636908 356536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I'm not going to for my project, because the amount of development effort required, and the risk of introducing a security bug, would be disproportionate to the benefit < 1596636926 558088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially as this was for work so I need to justify what I'm spending my time on) < 1596636937 548506 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not "make it work", if I want to serve something on https, as opposed to tls in general, than I will probably put it behind an Apache because it handles the peksy server-side details of HTTP < 1596636940 976956 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what's the story on the discord front? (This change, https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76448&oldid=75596 ... basically I'm wondering whether there are now two competing rooms/channels/whatever the name, or whether the former is gone) < 1596637004 109912 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think discord links can expire after some time, maybe it expired? < 1596637055 344838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just something to keep an eye for a while on I suppose. < 1596637066 278038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not curious enough to actually try out discord for this. < 1596637083 234059 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit weird, they use time-limited invite links, but the links have so little entropy that you could brute-force yourself into random discords easily such that any discord can't be kept private from that < 1596637096 400097 :uplime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: they both look to go to the same discord server fwiw < 1596637098 651109 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use discord so maybe this is not true and I just don't understand it < 1596637151 954262 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hear from other people who use discord (and just this morning I just found out that another IRC channel that I'm on had a bridge from discord and two more forums in two more chat protocols different from IRC or discord) < 1596637163 537922 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/this morning/this night/ < 1596637249 213872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uplime: thanks, that's reassuring < 1596637561 658109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anybody know why the esowiki has lemons for its logo? < 1596637674 699364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are limes < 1596637689 621359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was originally just picked from a list of placeholder images as a placeholder, but we grew to like it < 1596637772 339653 :uplime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its a good logo personally < 1596637776 541019 :uplime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :unobjectively < 1596637805 305268 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, like the colored wavy lines in the left side of my homepage, which were placeholders and I meant to replace them with better images, at least with wavy lines with different shapes, but nice vertical banners for this purpose aren't easy to find, and I was lazy, so I just have wavy lines there forever. < 1596637885 728404 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe another 12 years from now, when I do a major revision on that homepage ... < 1596638019 953591 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for meaningless images that I never replace, I have another story. I sometimes set different desktop background images on different desktop computers just so it's easier to tell at a glance which computer I'm working on. < 1596638131 770755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started doing that with shell prompts < 1596638147 416062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to miss the hostname in the prompt if you aren't concentrating, so I've been making them different colors on different computers < 1596638161 683601 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now at my current job, I use some virtualized windows machines, and I even have some where I installed some software and then gave copies of the image to coworkers to use. I put different desktop backgrounds to them for the above mentioned reason, and now I also replace the background before I give a copy to a coworker, because they're sometimes < 1596638162 218803 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy to change the background and then I ended up with a vm that has the same background as vms that another coworker uses. < 1596638211 146002 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in fact, I should look for a replacement background image for that particular vm image right now, and replace it in my local copy the next time I boot it up, because that situation still hasn't got resolved; < 1596638306 543207 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though with the more recent image that I distributed, I was careful enough to change the background immediately, so now the latest vm has rape seed field as the background in my version buy cotton bale as the background in the distributed version. < 1596638349 248397 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, the images also lead to easy naming the vm. < 1596638414 958821 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah, in fact I should change the descriptive name of this vm instance (which is for information display purposes only, doesn't change anything, but easily visible even when the VM is not running) to include "rape seeed" < 1596638457 86591 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh crap, I'm not allowed to change the descriptive name while the VM is running < 1596638530 519135 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, this also gives a possible solution for the hard problem of naming < 1596638552 486609 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly the descriptive name of the VM also has some meaningful non-arbitrary parts < 1596638565 716541 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those keep clashing too much < 1596638624 163770 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, you know "I know, I'll call this vm 'win10' to distinguish from the previous vm which runs windows 7" then 6 months later "crap, now the next vm will be running windows 10 as well" < 1596638659 609548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cheers, I can stop wondering about a hidden meaning then :) < 1596638698 625496 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier not to choose another rape seed photo as background for the next meaningless background image < 1596639721 12001 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596641999 357215 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yebtpdryroitsotp JOIN :#esoteric < 1596642543 386530 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596642641 65711 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1596642713 850661 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1596643993 232110 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I also have to choose a background that is not such a cliche that someone else would independently choose to use it as a desktop background, eg. I won't use a plain grass or wheat pasture hill or partly clouded sky unless it has some more specific recognizable feature. < 1596644048 925381 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rape seed field is common enough in reality in Hungary that it feels pleasant and neutral enough for a background, but not cliche enough that I'll have coworkers with confusable rape seed fields as their desktop background. < 1596644055 475290 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1596644337 62157 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: To your question from before, does NNTP count? However, I have not implemented any attempt to answer HTTP requests, and am not sure how. < 1596644693 955206 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1596644843 953268 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric > 1596645013 179141 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07MAWP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76456&oldid=76455 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+1) 10automaton is the singular form < 1596647005 777749 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596648455 995098 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596649003 776127 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1596649095 523584 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1596649477 190697 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the user does type HELP though then it does mention which RFC to read < 1596649595 704788 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1596650021 386003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1596650071 616185 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos JOIN :#esoteric > 1596651859 265770 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Osmarks/!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76457 5* 03Osmarks 5* (+2190) 10Created page with "{{Deletedpage}} {{infobox proglang |name= |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Heavpoot]] |year=[[:Category:2020|2020]] |memsys=No memory |dimensions=No dimensions |class=No..." < 1596653698 792352 :kritixilithos!~kritixili@gateway/tor-sasl/kritixilithos QUIT :Quit: quit < 1596654267 994147 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1596654525 382608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07HELP (Preprocessor)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76458&oldid=74795 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+78) 10added repo link < 1596655405 228572 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1596655715 883936 :kspalaiologos!~kspalaiol@176.221.122.234 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1596655759 577823 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1596656678 611317 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Auo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76459&oldid=75196 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+15) 10/* External resources */ fixed it < 1596657222 73388 :LegionMammal978!181e4e3e@c-24-30-78-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596657255 889097 :LegionMammal978!181e4e3e@c-24-30-78-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1596658053 282794 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the kind of random padding that I had made up for cryptographic use? < 1596658399 513554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what padding you made up. < 1596658415 706132 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned it on this IRC before, probably a few days ago < 1596658475 131257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that makes sense. < 1596658775 465487 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yebtpdryroitsotp QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1596658866 810675 :LKoen!~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” > 1596659086 531070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Spite14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76460&oldid=75643 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-15) 10/* External resources */ fixed link < 1596659379 912099 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1596659780 900647 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596659861 88754 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-063-063-106.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1596659885 904991 :Melvar!~melvar@dslc-082-082-054-030.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596660413 817220 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will repeat it, I suppose. < 1596660501 520101 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with one byte length of random data, and then random data, and then a checksum of the entire stream so far, and then the sequence number (which is the first sequence number is secret), and then the length of the payload data, and then the payload data; that makes one frame. < 1596660521 73226 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Data can be arbitrarily split into frames) < 1596660627 522016 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pufcjvaenlkbcnrn JOIN :#esoteric < 1596660648 967782 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1596660699 873886 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-qnwdyanvdtmkobxb QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1596660702 655640 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pufcjvaenlkbcnrn NICK :heroux > 1596660773 821608 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Polynomial14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76461&oldid=75933 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-1642) 10don't use that it's broken > 1596661490 655006 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76462&oldid=76109 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (-1) 10The About and Policy pages call it Esolang < 1596663200 121199 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1596663287 487813 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrxghrzgdysdgidn JOIN :#esoteric < 1596663572 181247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596663801 121879 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@172.242.0.73 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1596664448 400798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Oh the July Ponder This challenge solutions is published. They list German as a possible way to get the Fibonacci sequence, from A = AH and H = HAH. (I found this, but I thought that being a native speaker was *not* an advantage in this case.) < 1596664504 406828 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1596664507 515652 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is still up for grabs. < 1596664516 306476 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you have a link handy? < 1596664519 114131 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Time for shachaf to have another panic attack. ) < 1596664531 947273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this? http://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/solutions/July2020.html < 1596664539 719992 :uplime!nchambers@learnprogramming/staff/nchambers PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a datastructure better suited for representing an AST than say a linked list? < 1596664545 723421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: or this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_spelling_alphabet#Basic_alphabet < 1596664547 224205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Hmm? < 1596664561 642071 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1596664565 711551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's another month and I just queried the potm < 1596664568 353893 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former < 1596664587 495251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the solution had more details < 1596664609 234591 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I do hope that you're not suffering from literal panic attacks. < 1596664624 203833 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yeah it's a bit disappointing that it doesn't. < 1596664671 113625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is the same as last month's. < 1596664673 760403 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f 'a' = "ah"; f 'h' = "hah" in take 10 $ map length (iterate (>>= f) "a") < 1596664675 985628 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,5,13,34,89,233,610,1597,4181] < 1596664691 168607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's not the Fibonacci sequence, it's every second term. < 1596664699 21769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f 'a' = "ah"; f 'h' = "hah" in take 10 $ map length (iterate (>>= f) "h") < 1596664701 109670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,3,8,21,55,144,377,987,2584,6765] < 1596664705 345403 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are the other terms < 1596664747 86497 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes < 1596664843 25936 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/p2020-07.txt were my notes for the bonus part < 1596665072 498541 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something that generalizes certain ordinal notations to let us compute with a certain subset of surreal numbers? < 1596665125 960489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok stupid question, sorry < 1596665156 232041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2011-11-13.1964.nombres-surreels.html answers that. I should have looked there first < 1596666223 421760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1596667073 366479 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:844d:dece:9bd4:fbb2 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1596667283 837423 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1596667366 573575 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1596667451 177782 :tromp!~tromp@2a02:a210:ca3:2800:7d23:ba67:56a7:cca1 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1596667836 560522 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596667896 616054 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1596667922 67289 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1596668696 967302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596668727 199193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking for some stupid bit-twiddling tricks help: can anyone suggest an efficient way to identify the fifth-least-significant set bit in a number? < 1596668797 342620 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, uh, I'm too tired for that, look in Warren's Hacker's Delight 2nd ed, which is right here on my shelf but I'm going to bed and can't think clear enough to interpret the book < 1596668806 791735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually, there's a shortcut in my problem: I know that all bits above it will be set (but the bit immediately below might also be set, so I can't just look for the top 0) < 1596668838 948849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in that case don't you just do a popcount and then a subtraction or something? < 1596668841 539256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can count the number of set bits and that probably gives the answer directly? < 1596668842 991806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1596668846 279423 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1596668899 738871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't actually need to be efficient, but I can't bear to write the loop < 1596668937 343097 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: popcount then, and find an existing implementation of popcount for whatever you're writing this in, I can even help in that part if you need < 1596668963 457087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing in Rust which has popcount in the standard library, fortunately < 1596668976 206719 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1596669095 553832 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596669102 201517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1596669104 92009 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1596669352 487282 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: By "loop", do you mean four times x = x & (x-1), followed by x & -x? < 1596669392 76314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was thinking about something stupider; that version, I /could/ bear to write, although it still seems less elegant than it needs to be < 1596669417 18464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I figured it out, anyway, start with 0b10000 and then do an inverse select on the original number < 1596669424 750841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inverse-select is a builtin on x86) < 1596669452 585061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that probably isn't in Rust's standard library < 1596669453 777935 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/pdep (which apparently is really slow on Zen) < 1596669494 66779 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which would allow you to deposit 0x10 into the work you want to analyze to give you the 5th bit) < 1596669531 370003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, pdep is what it's called < 1596669535 674959 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's an intrinsic for that. < 1596669544 127595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the instruction I was thinking of, I remembered the instruction but couldn't remember the name < 1596669550 36588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need the index of the bit or just to have it set? < 1596669550 814482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably but I hate looking this up) < 1596669575 228155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pext/pdep aren't methods of u64 in Rust, at least < 1596669577 542176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: need the index < 1596669590 409088 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else... bsl in a loops (eww) < 1596669602 367491 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*loop < 1596669621 533265 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the index is just a popcount away from finding the mask < 1596669626 423981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my superoptimiser almost certainly isn't powerful enough to find this < 1596669637 854862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust supports inline assembly now, right? < 1596669659 930165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't use it in this situation anyway, if you want to write platform-specific code there are bindings to all the asm instructions individually < 1596669666 327456 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"inverse-select is a builtin on x86" => only on cpus newer than the ones that have popcount though < 1596669685 883020 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: how does popcount solve this problem? < 1596669688 263749 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think they do have a library that contains most x86 intrinsics though < 1596669689 368350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, pub unsafe fn _pdep_u64(a: u64, mask: u64) -> u64 < 1596669691 72737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does < 1596669716 803793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it solves it in the situation where you know that all the bits above the one you want are 1 bits (but some of the bits immediately below might be too) < 1596669719 440436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the case for me < 1596669719 550294 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think it works here, since all the higher bits are set? < 1596669736 152111 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I still don't see how < 1596669761 119795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you know that there are precisely four 1 bits below the one you want, so all but five 1 bits must be above < 1596669774 962234 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1596669777 169968 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functions in the rust library are btw named the same as the intel compiler intrinsic functions, which all of intel, ms, gcc compilers have in a standard header < 1596669779 46697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that was stupid. < 1596669787 949550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are no 0 bits above, thus knowing how many 1 bits are above gives you the number of bits above and thus the index of the bit you want < 1596669808 646721 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at it once, and found a few things missing that I reported, but haven't bothered to write the patch for it yet < 1596669836 15753 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that stuff you said, _pdep_u64 < 1596669845 108238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, this might make an interesting codegolf problem < 1596669863 702327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "fifth-least-significant set bit" problem in the general case) < 1596669897 389743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for a reference on the first use of the reasonable precedence parsing algorithm (sometimes called "precedence climbing" or "Pratt parsing" or other names). < 1596669921 248316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone attributes it to the BCPL compiler, but I can't find the code for that. < 1596669923 163027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I wonder how the 1252 threashold in http://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/August2020.html was chosen. < 1596669935 331780 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... threshold < 1596669943 219031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a book about compilers that uses BCPL for its examples, and talks about "operator-precedence parsing" < 1596669957 747690 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which book? < 1596669970 171666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from memory, "Understanding and Writing Compilers" by Bornat < 1596669974 504032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may have misremembered < 1596669978 248845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: reference on first use of the reasonable precedence parsing algorithm => look in TAOCP volume 5, TAOCP usually tells about the history < 1596669980 584156 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It seems too high to make this interesting. And the * bonus looks too hard.) < 1596670063 867626 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't realise how restrictive that additional constraint (no 0 bits above the one you want) really is. < 1596670078 451359 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... yeah, stupid. < 1596670102 657527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The algorithm is so simple that it seems silly to give it a name, but also many people (including me) find it nonobvious before they see it. < 1596670137 20478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But people write much more complicated precedence parsing code all the time. < 1596670160 621749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my guess is that the people setting the problem tried to solve it for some length of time and 1252 was their best score < 1596670176 173506 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: those are some of the best algorithms, the ones that are trivial and beautiful after you understand it, but look like magic that nobody could possibly have invented before that < 1596670196 743342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't have TAOCP unfortunately (except for two fascicles). < 1596670208 91806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayacc will generate operator-precedence parsing code as an optimisation in some cases < 1596670210 95976 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah but the first thing I tried got it down to 1235. < 1596670213 326299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think Floyd's algorithm that we discussed the other day is like this. < 1596670223 754495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: maybe you just got lucky? < 1596670233 886548 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubt it. < 1596670272 283815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no problem, nobody has volume 5 yet, it's not yet written, you have many years before it will be published, so since you already have to wait, it doesn't matter that you haven't bought it yet < 1596670292 52556 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is hardly a spoiler, it's pretty much the most obvious attempt: I added a single losing position, and no winning position.) < 1596670316 743629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding a losing position may cause some losing positions to become winning, though < 1596670327 308372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the exact details would matter < 1596670340 601076 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried all possibilities. < 1596670357 541891 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs.
< 1596670371 273368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tortoise-and-hare cycle-finding algorithm is something I found very non-obvious before I saw it < 1596670396 11473 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it turns some losing positions into winning positions. That is the point really, because the goal is to get as few losing positions as possible. < 1596670431 291995 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well. < 1596670454 114463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, that wasn't the Floyd's algorithm I meant, I meant the one for sampling. < 1596670459 487688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose Floyd has many algorithms. < 1596670474 242676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: huh, that's coincidence, I thought of the algorithm itself without realising the Floyd connection < 1596670505 594402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, Wikipedia isn't sure that Floyd actually created the tortoise-and-hare algorithm) < 1596670530 804257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevertheless I've heard people call it "Floyd's algorithm". < 1596670545 90881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1596670549 235432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the Pollard's lambda algorithm for finding cycles. < 1596670553 101636 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah. and the algorithm to find a birthday attack on a black box function with range 2**n with O(2**(n/2)) queries but with memory usage of only a O(2**(n/4)) sized hash table of values < 1596670561 439079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems much more practical in situations where you can use it. < 1596670579 920409 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection attributes it to Floyd < 1596670591 386182 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the Pollard rho algorithm for prime factorization, which is based on that < 1596670601 932191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it states that it's often referred to as Floyd's algorithm, but starts by disputing that attribution < 1596670624 88059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, Floyd's algorithm is also like that < 1596670625 522403 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the point of that one is that it's parallelizable, right? < 1596670625 854839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that for Pollard's rho factoring algorithm you have to use the "turtle and hare" method, you can't use the lambda trick, right? < 1596670629 750709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: we're assuming that the function has an infinite domain, right? < 1596670644 516026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Floyd's algorithm to compute each pair of distances in a graph with weighted edges < 1596670647 496337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you don't actually have an identity you can distinguish. < 1596670654 786247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Funny, it doesn't do that in the initial description. < 1596670675 511084 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's just one point, but that part isn't too surprising, more surprising is that it needs less storage < 1596670714 990111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean Floyd's algorithm to compute each pair of distances in a graph with weighted edges ← for TAEB::AI::Planar I created my own pathfinding algorithm designed to be efficient at doing that < 1596670722 119066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also at updating the cache when the graph changed slightly < 1596670731 83675 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brent's variant is usually faster anyway. < 1596670745 45845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, let me remember how Pollard's factoring algorithm works. < 1596670758 594916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: But that's a lot of memory... < 1596670780 787093 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: The basic cycle finding just needs to keep track of a couple of values. < 1596670782 38389 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um, that depends on how large n is < 1596670793 360744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast is the birthday attack for finding collisions in a function where you start with a value that isn't in the range, then you repeatedly feed it its own output? < 1596670812 748544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's O(n) memory, but I'm not sure what the efficiency is < 1596670818 481063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok, then the point IS that it's parallelizable, you pay memory to be parallelizable < 1596670835 536472 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes that was my point. < 1596670839 638805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found Floyd-Steinberg dithering unintuitive at first. But maybe I just initially saw it explained badly. On the other hand, there's a cute cat in the Wikipedia page about it. < 1596670863 794884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is what the "distinguished point"/lambda trick is about, right? < 1596670872 950790 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find this important because for a crypto hash of size n=256, you need 2**64 entries of storage instead of 2**128, and while 2**128 storage is something I can't imagine, 2**64 entries of storage is tantalizingly close to what Google could have in a few years if they really wanted to, whereas 2**128 entries of memory is something I can't imagine without our civilization being totally unrecognizable < 1596670874 386072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's O(2**(n/2)) because I've used it in practice to find a collision in SHA-256 truncated to 64 bits < 1596670886 209475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that seems like it would take too long if it were O(2**64) < 1596670889 18482 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's expected to be O(2^(n/2)), but parallelizes badly (d parallel processes doing that end up taking O(2^(n/2)/sqrt(d)) time, I think) < 1596670903 88396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah, OK < 1596670909 32020 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, there's an estimate that all hard disk existing in year 2018 have a total capacity approximately 2**88 bits < 1596670915 554130 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2**85 bytes or so < 1596670919 308394 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a time/memory tradeoff that you can set however you want. There's no real reason to set it to the square root, is there? < 1596670939 608687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I can imagine 2**64 storage entries, however I can't imagine a system that can fill them in reasonable time < 1596670941 51715 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's reasonable to assume that a large quantity of those hard disks are used by Google in their server rooms < 1596670945 699637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set it based on how much storage you want to use. < 1596670951 480923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if these are random access and we assume we don't use most of them, it's believable < 1596670991 953957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, it's still not a feasable attack yet, but the storage size is not the limit < 1596670999 899736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a pretty cute cat. < 1596671027 722575 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, it needn't be exactly the fourth root < 1596671034 189235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The undithered version is a bit less cute. < 1596671058 568007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: actually, I think Google almost certainly uses more than 2**-21 of the world's storage capacity, that's less than a millionth < 1596671069 331519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Google probably had 2**64 bits of storage already in 2018 < 1596671140 311236 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/52231/what-is-the-best-and-fastest-algorithm-to-generate-a-hash-collision has some references < 1596671164 365246 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's what I'm thinking too, but I also think 2**64 *bits* might not be enough, you need 2**64 half-entries, each 64 bits long, (or maybe quarter entries or so), so it's more like 2**70 bits < 1596671190 123377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1596671215 269042 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure about either number here so I can't tell if Google has reached this yet < 1596671231 152365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd check how much data is stored in [REDACTED], but it'd almost certainly be a confidential number. < 1596671265 210465 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( so many [REDACTED] bytes ) < 1596671290 101887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, though I've seen some estimates based on public data < 1596671327 457280 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty hard to find public information about that sort of thing, I think Amazon has also only publicly said how many *objects* there are in S3, not how many bytes. < 1596671385 159016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also wondering how many devices (smartphones) are there that run Android (2**31 right now, it turns out), and how much total GPU FLOPS, total CPU FLOPS, total storage, total RAM, and median RAM they have; < 1596671400 38563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wonder how that changed since I had access to [REDACTED] < 1596671422 92799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, curiosity got the better of me, and I checked [REDACTED]. I can in strictest confidence let you know it's still a number, it hasn't turned into any sort of weird concept that transcends numbers. Well, unless the interface hides that. < 1596671437 67991 :salpynx!794954f8@121.73.84.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1596671456 339136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I do admit that an attack that backdoors a significant number of android devices such that it uses them for some meaningful computation would be very impractical. < 1596671472 333440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man, we should do some sort of millionaire problem. < 1596671474 10935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't necessarily need to be a backdoor < 1596671476 106483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking about this on another channel, but I haven't found out anyting other than the number of devices yet < 1596671501 674811 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, that's what I was thinking of, to determine if the redacted problems are equal < 1596671519 469819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, you mean not whether the projects are the same but for which one uses more storage? < 1596671529 764818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are apps that are installed on a high proportion of phones, if one of them decided to do some distributed computing (perhaps even with the users' permission) it could get a lot done < 1596671555 177371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a ridiculous spike in capacity of Folding@home with the covid thing. < 1596671577 737135 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With heightened interest in the project as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic,[7] the system achieved a speed of approximately 1.22 exaflops by late March 2020 and reaching 2.43 exaflops by April 12, 2020,[8] making it the world's first exaflop computing system." < 1596671600 825853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is exa one level above peta? < 1596671605 394815 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I know, but still it's hard to make them do a computation that does anything useful < 1596671629 526739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are numbers so large that I find it hard to remember even what they're named < 1596671630 197887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exa is indeed one level above peta, and it's also the last level that sounds even borderline reasonable. < 1596671637 684724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because nobody's going to take zetta and yotta seriously. < 1596671646 60871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IBM announced Thursday[don't you love such references in an online article without date] that after five years of work, its researchers have been able to reduce from about one million to 12 the number of atoms required to create a bit of data." < 1596671664 450697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, tera is 1000**4, peta is 1000**5, exa is 1000**6, zetta is 1000**7, yotta is 1000*8, the mnemonic is that the words are similar to tetra, penta, hexa, septa, octa < 1596671671 229596 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with one consonant removed from each < 1596671684 843942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: huh, was that intentional? < 1596671695 712782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hard pattern to notice unless it's pointed out < 1596671730 700670 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I didn't know it for a while and I kept confusing them all the time. I think it was intentional for at least for some of them, though perhaps not for tera < 1596671733 512113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't generalize backwards, "giga" is nothing like "tri" < 1596671753 394837 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mega and giga are just large < 1596671753 835858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nor for the prefixes smaller than 1 < 1596671761 887664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally heard a mnemonic for stalactite/stalagmite that I can actually remember the other day: stalaGmites rise from the Ground, while stalaCtites hang from the Ceiling. < 1596671772 205672 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and tera is like terra which is earth which is large... very helpful < 1596671777 409214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned that in school, I think < 1596671796 842572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work in Finnish, I'm sure they'd've told it to us too otherwise. < 1596671822 410840 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I didn't bother to remember the stalagmite thing, I don't do spelunking and will never do it in the future, so I don't think that nomenclature can ever matter for anything I do < 1596671837 437819 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: statlacTITeS hang from the ceiling... that one works in german as well :P < 1596671854 481489 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus all my spelologist friends speak Hungarian and you can just use the Hungarian names which aren't so crazy < 1596671854 990505 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignore the ceiling, it's all about hanging) < 1596671890 151079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are combined from simple words and have obvious etimologies, just like rare words do in any sane language except English < 1596671894 642980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many spelologist friends do you have? < 1596671898 532845 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's why people have proposed extending the prefixes with stuff like "xona" < 1596671905 843940 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I learned this as a teenager... not in school though, for some reason. :P < 1596671938 591397 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: depends on how you count "friend", they're all my mother's friends because she goes to caves a lot, although not as a spelologist, but as a teacher < 1596671939 114427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Stephen Fry said the mnemonic he was taught in school was based on "tights hang down". < 1596671950 386399 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-193.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like a dozen < 1596671952 951079 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: cute < 1596671959 59413 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was in QI, which is where I got the ground/ceiling bit too.) < 1596671963 503176 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard a bunch of mnemonics, but I < 1596671973 227979 :Arcorann!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ll always remember Hagrid in Harry Potter just failing > 1596671985 280154 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07The Past14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76463&oldid=76129 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+253) 10fixed implementation < 1596671988 686104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arcorann: aww, I was hoping for "I don't remember any of them"