00:16:59 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:23:27 -!- h has joined. 00:23:32 -!- h has changed nick to hhhhh. 00:24:00 hello. does anyone here know much about golfscript? im slightly confused about how arrays work. for example, how would i take an array on the stack and increment its 3rd value by 1? 00:24:24 I know a bit about GolfScript but not much 00:24:33 it has many fewer builtins than you'd expect from a golfing language 00:25:21 but in most cases, arrays in golfing languages are treated as a single object, rather than being modified 00:25:38 so the operation you want, you should think of as "replace this array with a copy in which the third value is incremented" 00:25:59 i see. how would one go about doing so? 00:26:45 GolfScript is one of the older ones though I think; there are many newer ones with more commands 00:27:07 for an array of length 3, [0,1,2 1+]? that seems really ungolflike. 00:27:07 I'm trying to find a good builtin to use 00:27:23 [0,1,2,1+] oops 00:27:38 zzo38 any good examples? 00:28:25 actually this is a hard operation in most golfing languages I think 00:28:35 strange. 00:29:02 i was thinking of doing so because im trying to find a nice esolang to implement an esolang interpreter in# 00:29:05 hhhhh: Well, there are many, actually; there may be a list or category on esolang wiki (and if not, maybe there should be? Discuss and figure it out, I suppose) 00:29:28 in Jelly it would be something like 1+$3¦ 00:29:31 and i need to store a direction, a PC and the program itself, i was thinking of doing that in an array 00:29:38 jelly seems complicated, ive looked at it 00:29:57 yep, https://tio.run/##y0rNyan8/99QW8X40LL///9HG@oY6RjrmOiYxgIA 00:30:14 only ¦ is really weird and unintuitive, and that's still a lot longer than you'd expect 00:30:22 what is "$3¦"? 00:32:06 ¦ is a quick that combines two code fragments 00:32:19 the first fragment is 1+ which adds 1 to things 00:32:30 although, I should just have used the increment builtin, ‘ 00:32:38 the second fragment is 3 which is the array index to affect 00:32:54 whats $ 00:32:59 and ¦ operates on an array only at certain indexes (although it does this by operating on the whole of the array) 00:33:18 $ is a grouping command that effectively puts the previous two code fragments into a group, like putting parentheses around them 00:33:28 and also indicates that they take one argument (in this case, an array) 00:33:53 we need to group them because otherwise ¦ will operate on + and 3, not on 1+ and 3 00:34:08 if I replace 1+ with the builtin, the $ isn't needed: https://tio.run/##y0rNyan8//9RwwzjQ8v@//8fbahjpGOsY6JjGgsA 00:34:29 why is the ¦ needed? 00:34:46 oh, nvm. 00:35:22 so (chain) (number) ¦ executes (chain) on array index (number)? 00:35:27 right 00:35:36 hm neat. 00:35:47 except it doesn't, what it actually does is to execute the chain on the entire array, then put all the indexes other than the listed one back to what they were 00:35:54 this might be a bug 00:36:03 yes that does seem strange 00:36:44 it comes to the same result in most cases, but when it doesn't it can be very confusing 00:39:18 in Brachylog, the best I can do is to rotate the element to the start, increment it, then rotate the array back into order: https://tio.run/##SypKTM6ozMlPN/r//1HbrkdNTdqPmhpPbXjUthvI/v8/2lDHSMdYx0THVMcs9n8UAA 00:39:37 hmm, unicode characters 00:39:40 `! brachylog [1,2,3,4,5,6]↺₂+₁ʰ↻₂w 00:39:43 do they count as a single byte for golfing purposes 00:39:44 ​[1,2,4,4,5,6] \ true. 00:40:06 it isn't Unicode, most modern golfing languages make use of their own character sets with 256 different characters 00:40:15 they aren't encoded as Unicode, but they are encoded as a single byte each 00:40:40 okay. so if i make a golfing language it should only have up to 256 characters? 00:41:02 the number of characters used should be a power of 2, using 256 different characters is nicely usable because you can have one byte per character 00:41:20 but if, say, you only use 16 different characters then you can fit in two per byte, which halves the length of your code 00:41:41 Well, in this case they are all characters which are present in Unicode; I don't know if some uses characters which are not present in Unicode, although I do not expect so; there may be some whose Unicode representation is ambiguous, though, possibly 00:41:44 most people use 256 though, or rather, they have 256 but don't use all of them (which makes their code somewhat suboptimal) 00:42:06 zzo38: yes, it's common to use characters that all exist in Unicode, but to use a non-Unicode encoding for them 00:42:45 this isn't always the case, e.g. Mathematica uses one character that isn't in Unicode (and when encoded as Unicode, encodes it to a private-use character), although it isn't a golfing language despite sometimes being used as one 00:43:02 What character is that? 00:44:05 -!- t20kdc has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:44:09 it's a sort of lambda-like operator, according to the source I got it from it looks quite similar to ↦ 00:44:32 (but Mathematica treats it as a distinct character ) 00:44:34 `unidecode  00:44:36 ​[U+F4A1 - No such unicode character name in database] 00:45:11 very great language design 00:45:18 if you ask Mathematica to save in a Unicode encoding then decode it using a different program, it becomes the private use character U+F4A1 00:46:24 Jelly's character set was chosen to be typable on at least one pre-existing keyboard layout, without use of a compose key 00:47:08 O, OK, so that is what it is. 00:47:52 I've had enough problems in Jelly with the distinction between Đ and Ð 00:47:55 `unidecode Đ 00:47:57 ​[U+0110 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH STROKE] 00:48:02 `unidecode Ð 00:48:04 ​[U+00D0 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER ETH] 00:48:42 U+00D0 is in Jelly's character set, U+0110 isn't, and it's easy to accidentally type the wrong one and have the UTF-8 to Jelly convertor produce an invalid program as a result 00:48:47 (it doesn't even error…) 00:49:13 the lowercase forms are đ and ð respectively, which is why they're different characters 00:49:51 Presumably the converter should convert both U+0110 and U+00D0 into the same Jelly character code, when you are using input in Unicode, to avoid such a problem. (When converting into Unicode, you would only do U+00D0 out and not U+0110, I suppose) 00:49:53 I can't distinguish the uppercases in the font I'm using, though 00:50:01 Which would be better, I think. 00:50:06 zzo38: I agree 00:51:12 [[Subreal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76527&oldid=76446 * RocketRace * (+52) Jumpey 00:51:43 [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76528&oldid=76527 * RocketRace * (+2) /* Control flow operations */ 00:52:59 [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76529&oldid=76528 * RocketRace * (+92) /* Surreal literals */ 00:53:42 [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76530&oldid=76529 * RocketRace * (+17) /* Stack operations */ 00:54:17 (The font I have does not seem to distinguish those two characters either, it look like to me) 00:54:36 [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76531&oldid=76530 * RocketRace * (-17) /* Stack operations */ 00:55:07 [[Varsig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76532&oldid=20557 * LegionMammal978 * (+224) added interpreter link and categories 00:55:19 https://tio.run/##S85KzP3/v1BdQb9aKcrV3y8kPMTDzd/NM9gz2NXV089TKcbIRtlIv1b1/39/P1eFkHB/hRCPIFcICyTi5h8apBDsGQEA CJam is cool 00:56:28 I'm not very experienced with CJam, but it's basically best thought of as GolfScript 2 00:56:39 it's very similar to GolfScript but has a much better set of builtins 00:57:14 yeah, i thought it was pretty crazy that golfscript had you type entire english words like "do", "while", "if"... 00:59:38 one of the things I like least about Brachylog is that it supports multiple-character variable names 01:00:15 does it require them? 01:00:18 from my perspective, it is unlikely that you will need more than 26 generic variables in a golfing language program (in fact, needing more than 2 is rare) 01:00:24 no, single-character variable names are allowed 01:00:37 but, it means that syntax consisting of two consecutive letters can't be used for another purpose 01:00:37 how is it a bad thing to support things that arent required to be used? 01:00:40 oh, i see. 01:01:05 a good compromise would be to require multiple-character variable names to all start with the same letter 01:01:11 e.g. Z 01:01:42 then any of the other 25 variables could be used for syntax where concatenating them meant something (the obvious meaning in Brachylog is to have an implicit "and" between them) 01:01:42 imagine not having 676 variables in your esolang. how terrible. 01:02:07 this only becomes less space-efficient than the original when you have 53 or more variables 01:02:20 and even using 3 is a bit of a stretch 01:02:41 (most golfing languages have very concise ways to deal with temporaries) 01:03:00 Jelly has only one variable for the entire program, which feels a bit restrictive sometimes, but it's rarely an issue in practice 01:04:55 fair enough 01:05:22 most programs don't use it 01:05:28 i need to make an esolang interpreter where the PC has direction, so storing the program, the PC and its direction would be probably good for what i need to do 01:05:55 (I have suggested that Jelly should have a global *dictionary*; this would allow you to simulate arbitrary many global variables if you needed them by using one key per variable, and would also be useful for other purposes) 01:07:20 huh, no built in base conversion in cjam? 01:07:58 people have gotten better at making golfing languages over time 01:08:28 time to find "cjam but actually utilizing the 256 character limit slightly more" 01:08:33 I think the best way to make one is to look at existing golfing languages to see which builtins you need, but come up with something innovative in terms of encoding or control flow or data flow 01:09:10 well, id be quite happy with just cjam+extra builtins like base conversion, really 01:09:19 Does Jelly have any dictionary object at all? Also, if you were to extend it, how to do? 01:10:04 ah cjam does have base conversion i missed it oops 01:10:38 I started writing a new specification of a golf programming language too, but it is not finish yet. 01:11:13 zzo38: it has some support for interpreting an array of key-values pairs as though it were a dictionary 01:11:46 but probably doesn't have any actual dictionaries (unless you can somehow jailbreak the interpreter into running arbitrary Python) 01:21:24 -!- hhhhh has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:04:10 -!- adu has joined. 02:24:50 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:35:31 -!- z8 has joined. 02:38:37 -!- z8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:41:21 [[Rui]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76533&oldid=76233 * DanielCristofani * (+198) /* Examples */ 02:41:33 -!- adu has joined. 03:24:39 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:46:00 [[Talk:Two]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76534 * Caenbe * (+1351) Created talk page with attempt at a rigorous def. 03:58:26 -!- tromp has joined. 04:03:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:12:31 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 04:14:01 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:14:02 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 05:04:28 [[Bit~]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76535&oldid=63897 * Bangyen * (+103) 05:05:23 -!- craigo has joined. 05:10:32 [[User:Bangyen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76536&oldid=76482 * Bangyen * (+126) /* Implementations */ 05:14:30 [[Talk:MAWP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76537 * JonoCode9374 * (+278) Created page with "= Negative Numbers = I used to be able to. Now I can't. How do I do it? ~~~~" 05:23:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:25:07 -!- imode has joined. 05:28:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 05:51:46 [[User:Bangyen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76538&oldid=76536 * Bangyen * (+26) 06:18:24 -!- [ has changed nick to uplime. 06:49:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:09:52 -!- tromp has joined. 07:19:51 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:21:21 -!- craigo has joined. 07:31:25 -!- kritixilithos has joined. 08:08:12 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:10:03 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:20:33 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:20:54 -!- kritixilithos has joined. 08:29:28 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:33:25 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:54:49 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: No route to host). 08:56:09 -!- tromp has joined. 10:28:13 -!- t20kdc has joined. 10:54:04 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:57:42 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:04:25 -!- sprocklem has joined. 11:09:13 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:09:32 -!- sprocklem has joined. 11:58:01 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 11:58:16 -!- hendursaga has joined. 12:26:08 [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Penisscript]] to [[PenisScript]]: fix capitalization 12:39:19 "I can't distinguish the uppercases in the font I'm using, though" => I can distinguish icelandic Eth and serbian Dje but that's because it's in my terminal font and I specifically want all common non-space chars distinguishable even if that makes one of them ugly 12:43:45 so the icelandic Eth has a slanted stroke 12:54:44 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 14:24:17 [[Ix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76541&oldid=76001 * Orisphera * (+241) 15:35:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:40:21 -!- Arcorann has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:59:37 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:59:56 -!- sprocklem has joined. 16:06:02 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:07:17 -!- sprocklem has joined. 16:07:20 [[Divzeros]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76542&oldid=20843 * LegionMammal978 * (+196) added interpreter link and categories 16:14:30 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 16:15:36 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:15:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 17:33:37 -!- adu has joined. 17:40:22 Btw, annoyances... why does https://github.com/ (coming there without a cookie) give me a prominent signup dialog, but no direct way of logging in? That requires an extra click... 17:41:27 (Rhetorical question, I think I know why. I don't think it's a *good* reason.) 17:41:31 `? device 17:41:34 A device is a browser session. Please verify your device. 17:41:35 (related) 17:43:43 logging into bitbucket is horrible as well 17:44:30 I forgot. I removed the bitbucket account that I once had. 17:44:33 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 17:47:25 The best part of that was the final paragraph here: http://sprunge.us/OWUWYH 17:53:18 [[User:DmilkaSTD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76543&oldid=75792 * DmilkaSTD * (-23) 17:56:12 [[Qu 1.0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76544&oldid=75492 * DmilkaSTD * (+6) 18:01:48 -!- TheLie has joined. 18:03:41 [[User:DmilkaSTD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76545&oldid=76543 * DmilkaSTD * (-85) 18:04:26 [[Bigspace]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76546&oldid=75158 * DmilkaSTD * (-55) removed the first warning 18:07:19 [[Espaol]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76547&oldid=75008 * DmilkaSTD * (+26) 18:10:27 [[XPML17]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76548&oldid=50647 * DmilkaSTD * (+15) +stub 18:15:07 "Oh, I heard it through the grapefruit / Oh, I'm just about to lose my mind" makes equally much sense as the actual lyrics. 18:16:03 [[Anarchysm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76549&oldid=75798 * DmilkaSTD * (-27) -uncomputable category 18:19:20 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Flv * New user account 18:20:42 [[User:DmilkaSTD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76550&oldid=76545 * DmilkaSTD * (+111) 18:23:01 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76551&oldid=76526 * Flv * (+96) /* Introductions */ 18:24:16 [[User:Flv]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76552 * Flv * (+127) Created page with "hello ! i am currently studying esolangs in general ! for a talk ! i have been involved in the creation of the esolang fleuve." 18:26:01 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Quit: quit). 18:47:38 -!- flv has joined. 18:49:27 -!- flv has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:05:14 -!- imode has joined. 19:20:54 -!- flv has joined. 19:39:34 -!- adu has joined. 19:45:48 [[Trueclone]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76553 * DmilkaSTD * (+2515) Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''Trueclone''' is an esoteric language designed to make [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_code Spaghetti code]. == trueclone == * trueclone uses goto st..." 19:46:38 [[User:DmilkaSTD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76554&oldid=76550 * DmilkaSTD * (-24) 19:50:59 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:56:32 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:04:50 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:36:23 [[Number Seventy-Four]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76555&oldid=76483 * Bangyen * (+63) 20:52:44 [[Complode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76556&oldid=53084 * LegionMammal978 * (+189) added interpreter link and categories 21:00:25 [[Talk:BytFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76557 * Bangyen * (+280) Created page with "==Questions== * and move both pointers, correct? * Which bit is the first bit? * Are cells still unsigned? * Is the tape still right unbounde..." 21:00:34 -!- Davenz has joined. 21:01:23 accidenti,ne cercavo una in italiano! 21:02:56 -!- Davenz has quit (Client Quit). 21:21:39 -!- adu has joined. 21:32:14 hello ! does anyone have links/resources related to esoteric interpreters ? def: an unusual interpreter that can be used on any language. i have been googling but most things I find are about esoteric language interpreters, and not general interpreters... does this make sense ? thanks ! 21:48:20 [[Talk:Number Seventy-Four]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76558 * Bangyen * (+257) Created page with "==Questions== * If the data string is only output once the program terminates, doesn't that mean that the truth machine never outputs anything when the input is 1..." 21:50:11 [[Talk:Number Seventy-Four]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76559&oldid=76558 * Bangyen * (+97) 21:56:58 flv: there's no interpreter that can interpret any language. that's literally impossible. 21:57:39 i mean, yes, but also, it depends what you mean by interpreter ? 21:58:18 elanamirellam: also we know he's in a place with no good wired internet suppliers, so maybe you can guess location from that 22:01:10 And I assume amazon.de and amazon.nl and amazon.fr doesn't have enough computer parts that ship there too 22:08:48 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:12:04 -!- tromp has joined. 22:17:11 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:17:14 [[User:AlvinBalvin321]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76560&oldid=76335 * AlvinBalvin321 * (+0) 22:21:56 -!- adu has joined. 22:32:24 -!- TheLie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:10 -!- flv has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:08:24 -!- flv has joined. 23:14:05 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:15:26 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iah * New user account 23:19:39 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76561&oldid=76551 * Iah * (+91) 23:20:27 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76562&oldid=76561 * Iah * (+0) 23:25:05 -!- Arcorann has joined. 23:25:38 -!- Arcorann has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:26:06 -!- Arcorann has joined. 23:57:15 -!- adu has joined.