< 1603843649 937879 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1603844239 827811 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainFuckFart14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78206&oldid=78204 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-41) 10/* Commands */ Looking at the interpreter, it seems that consume does mean set to zero > 1603844286 418489 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BrainFuckFart14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78207&oldid=78206 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+137) 10/* Contact */ Categorues < 1603844412 305708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1603845237 273711 :delta23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603845372 768672 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603845883 907942 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603845968 727035 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@cpe-24-208-148-153.insight.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1603845993 739047 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603846365 793682 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.221.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603846488 185594 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1603847416 637204 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1603847704 790923 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@46.217.221.241 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603847919 822606 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.221.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603850486 88715 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603855368 49952 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-riwyczjhfkezsdzc QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603855501 262938 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktndoftqtmycfxps JOIN :#esoteric < 1603855631 61353 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1603857265 922833 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603858204 920709 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603859972 497703 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603860280 440196 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1603862965 509390 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603862966 509495 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603863012 445933 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Client Quit < 1603863022 218304 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.47.112 NICK :MDude < 1603863067 419720 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 QUIT :Client Quit < 1603866301 652652 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603866978 809501 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1603868444 742556 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603870329 939970 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1603871727 634178 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@46.217.221.153 QUIT :Changing host < 1603871727 638393 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603872472 605370 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603872623 713986 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603873823 4316 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1603874927 460504 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78208&oldid=78178 5* 03RocketRace 5* (-23) 10Clarify ~ behavior > 1603874965 436863 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78209&oldid=78208 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+51) 10Formatting < 1603875093 274963 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-22.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1603875147 104325 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[075D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78210&oldid=78209 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+108) 10Recommended implementation-dependent behavior > 1603878153 73733 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78211 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+23) 10Created page with "{{lower}} '''minasm'''" > 1603878189 876866 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78212&oldid=78211 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+4) 10 > 1603878199 954506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78213&oldid=78212 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-1) 10 < 1603878699 435251 :t20kdc!~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603879705 640278 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78214&oldid=77981 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10Grammar > 1603880264 106071 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78215&oldid=78213 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+310) 10 > 1603880279 686500 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78216&oldid=78215 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-336) 10Blanked the page > 1603880286 691137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78217&oldid=78216 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+336) 10 > 1603880319 111056 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78218&oldid=78217 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-4) 10 > 1603880340 329533 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78219&oldid=78218 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+4) 10 > 1603880400 192100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78220&oldid=78219 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 > 1603880471 129062 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:OsmineYT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78221&oldid=78010 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+12) 10 < 1603880503 723810 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1603880528 682942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78222&oldid=78220 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (-10) 10 > 1603880537 527518 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78223&oldid=78222 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1) 10 < 1603881195 607546 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603883523 98224 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:ItalicTitle14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78224 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+53) 10New template! > 1603883581 440911 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (Esolang)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78225&oldid=78196 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+6) 10Yee new template! < 1603884205 823947 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.164 JOIN :#esoteric > 1603887405 573483 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Turing machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78226&oldid=78214 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10Grammar (hm? why `An T`?) > 1603887507 169413 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (Joke language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78227&oldid=78184 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+39) 10Distinguish/Confusion > 1603887638 656381 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[0799 (Esolang)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78228&oldid=78225 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10Distinguish/Confusion > 1603887905 163405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Increment14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78229&oldid=73127 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Partial Implementation */ Correct header level < 1603889627 469975 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1603890235 823589 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1603890250 740182 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1603890266 462395 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Client Quit < 1603890278 735774 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603890717 446993 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78230&oldid=78171 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+162) 10/* Multiplication */ > 1603890941 895110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Probablyfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78231&oldid=78230 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-1) 10/* Instructions */ > 1603891375 599485 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78232&oldid=78223 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+885) 10 < 1603893767 418784 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1603895091 930372 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603896622 913945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603896653 285173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when using a shell to run a command, and specifying the command's arguments, what characters can safely be used without any form of quoting? < 1603896699 126422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally in a way that's portable across all commonly used shells on all common OSes, but failing that I'll settle for sh and its derivatives < 1603896738 900876 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603896754 436763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure letters, digits, underscores, - and _ are safe, and fairly confident on @ and +; I suspect % is safe on POSIX but not Windows < 1603896760 727119 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, that's an ugly question and usually leads to no good < 1603896786 718216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, . is safe and , probably is < 1603896814 303723 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you count the program name itself as an argument? < 1603896819 348923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might have reached the limits of ASCII punctuation now < 1603896822 420875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wib_jonas: not for this purpose < 1603896862 608346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, / is also safe, but I forgot to mention it earlier (I was thinking about it though) < 1603896871 756601 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does perl count as a commonly used shell? I often use it on windows because the shell sucks. < 1603896880 560070 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to invoke commands that is < 1603896895 208695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ? and * are safe on Windows, because there, globs are expanded by the program not the shell < 1603896924 288116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when using perl as a shell, do you need some sort of prefix to explicitly invoke shell commands? < 1603896934 239135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than perl functions? < 1603896943 37495 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1603896967 309344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, there are some obvious clashes otherwise, like "rmdir" < 1603896992 59527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to design the command-line interface for an esolang, and thought it would be nice if it didn't require quoting < 1603897016 128447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably if you're calling it from Perl, you're used to having to quote things < 1603897068 165811 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you're designing a command-line interface, I suggest one that does require quoting, but only easy quoting: < 1603897120 736489 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use ascii characters other than double quote, single quote, backslash, percent, circumflex; plus possibly some non-ascii non-control characters. then you can double-quote on windows and single-quote on posix and you have no problems anywhere. < 1603897135 373116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, is ^ safe on POSIX? < 1603897137 362194 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to go further, make it also no dollar signs and no backticks so you can double-quote the arguments anywhere < 1603897170 208337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, the esolang uses base 64 syntax, so programs consist only of letters, digits, +, /, and I think those are all shell-safe < 1603897190 498139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just wanted two more characters to allow programs to be read from a file (as either packed base64 or ASCII-encoded base64) < 1603897208 992174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe "read this command-line argument from a file" is traditionally expressed using @ < 1603897241 150400 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's ugly because non of the punctuations are safe in all contexts. in any one context you can find two punctuation that's safe enough to make a base64 thing, but it's not a single set of two punctuation. I wish it was, I looked into it. < 1603897246 554589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd want an alternative to specify that the file should be unpacked too (or an extra option, but that's boring and this is #esoteric) < 1603897265 65504 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for just shells I recommend . and _ < 1603897287 183 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot and underscore if you need just two < 1603897305 966605 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's specifically for shells, they're not the best in all contexts < 1603897323 920624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603897336 796970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603897353 561976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the + and / are already locked in as part of the syntax < 1603897364 774227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think they're shell-safe anyway < 1603897383 790976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, if I wanted some fairly safe base64, I would probably use - and _ as the extra two characters < 1603897411 469829 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ and / were usually considered argument-separators on DOS, so a few windows commands treat it specially, but if you pass them to your program then they're safe < 1603897455 728491 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like hyphen in shells, it's considered an option prefix in too many contexts < 1603897467 47197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean that /a/b might be passed as "/a" "/b" rather than as one argument? < 1603897469 496236 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine if you can guarantee it's not the first of an argument < 1603897488 180407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't the entire point of options to be passed to the program? < 1603897517 858507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't really matter whether an option starting - is parsed as an option or not < 1603897522 300247 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes of course, but you might be implementing your language in something that hijacks those before they reach your program < 1603897554 682354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean at the executable level? < 1603897566 927259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing it in OCaml, I don't think that hijacks options < 1603897715 402595 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know, off the top of your head, the option for ghc to compile *your* main program such that it doesn't scan the argv for a certain special string as an escape for settings for the haskell runtime and garbage collector? nor do many other people, so they'll misimplement your language, if programs can start with "+RTS" . that doesn't < 1603897715 854726 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even start with a hyphen. yes, it's bloody stupid of ghc, but I think this is exactly the sort of bloody stupid thing you're asking about right now. < 1603897754 36294 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/runtime_control.html#setting-rts-options" for reference) < 1603897791 811213 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly the quoting that I mentioned wouldn't fix that either < 1603897821 95176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice sort of stupid thing to warn me about :-) < 1603897870 402143 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think programs you compile for cygwin do something even worse < 1603897878 231627 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what, I hate cygwin and don't use it < 1603897953 673608 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it might help if your programs always start with ./ < 1603897961 60894 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the later minuses won't matter < 1603897966 674246 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually the pluses either < 1603897979 408008 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither < 1603898000 666034 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when it's just shell arguments, not filenames or URLs or mediawiki page titles or some such < 1603898316 437073 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1603898509 786052 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78233&oldid=78232 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+503) 10 > 1603898896 888642 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78234&oldid=78233 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+84) 10 < 1603899032 521495 :rain1!~rain1@unaffiliated/rain1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603900372 930787 :wib_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed < 1603904856 41390 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603906796 381139 :MDude!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603906802 305836 :MDead!~MDude@71.50.47.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603909877 900329 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed -e s/\'/\'\\\\\'\'/g -e s/^/\'/ -e s/\$/\'/ < 1603909895 588804 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to do this that doesn't look this bad < 1603910249 371009 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried perl but it didn't work < 1603910340 545148 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this code supposed to do? < 1603910586 871708 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a string, possibly containing spaces, ', ", etc and convert to single-quoted string that can be copypasted back into bash > 1603910921 398579 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78235&oldid=78234 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+1097) 10 < 1603911335 19394 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another way using python instead of sed < 1603911350 229929 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :but afaik this is the best when using sed < 1603911376 386371 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zsntqrknwqoshzrw PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't that experienced with sed though
< 1603911533 743059 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1603912083 778380 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603912156 376596 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1603913403 131429 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Minasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78236&oldid=78235 5* 03OsmineYT 5* (+535) 10 < 1603913619 919816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I used a Perl module off CPAN for that; overkill but more readable < 1603913727 787909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my command would be perl -MShellQuote::Any::Tiny=shell_quote -lpe '$_ = shell_quote $_' < 1603913762 182695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's using the algorithm of «replace ' with '"'"', prepend ', append '» < 1603913780 899844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this algorithm is a pain to write down in almost any context because it has so many punctuation marks in it that it's hard to quote < 1603913846 796497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating double-quoted strings is probably easier in Perl, because there's a builtin `quotemeta` < 1603914475 897306 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603914489 595473 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings all < 1603914562 609636 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking for some insight about linear bounded automata. A finite state machine attached to a finite, but arbitrarily large tape is equivalent in expressive power to a LBA because we can just pad the input length arbitrarily, true? < 1603914877 382268 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To put it in other words, an LBA can execute any program that uses a finite about of memory? But any program that uses an unbounded amount of memory it cannot? < 1603915026 615255 :imode!~linear@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use unbounded, just whatever that finite bound is + 1. < 1603915130 550512 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: but couldn't we then just pad the input by 1 symbol to allow for the required tape length? < 1603915190 895108 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could introduce a symbol that does nothing but pad and is otherwise ignored by the LBA < 1603915215 490407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of memory an LBA can use is input-dependent; the amount of memory an FSM can use isn't < 1603915235 501003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many FSMs can take an arbitrary amount of input, but they can't store it anywhere < 1603915241 623927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas an LBA can < 1603915272 441989 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the input length is > storage space in FSM algos have to be "online" in some form? < 1603915278 565765 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true of lbas? < 1603915310 882860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way to think about it is that FSMs read the input one bit (/byte/symbol/whatever, but a fixed size) at at ime < 1603915318 82513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* at a time < 1603915324 90475 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense to me < 1603915339 641801 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1603915343 638720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way in which an LBA reads doesn't really matter, because it has enough memory to store the entire input < 1603915394 775246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are middle grounds, like NL (which is particularly interesting); in NL, the program can store a finite number of points to the input, and read and reread it through them, but can't write to the space storing the input and otherwise doesn't have linear memory < 1603915403 293313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pointers to the input < 1603915414 11699 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603915434 779029 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, can we say that an lba is equivalent to any machine that has a finite but input dependent tape length (because of padding)? Or are we strictly stuck with linear space usage? < 1603915476 252937 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen information that claimed O(n) space usage as a limit, but I'm having trouble convincing myself of that < 1603915517 463674 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the extending the alphabet argument for an arbitrary constant attached to the n < 1603915557 723662 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see why it's limited to O(n) space < 1603915585 77132 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say I encode the input to be input + length(input)^2 null symbols < 1603915608 272598 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the dependency on the original input be quadratic in space? < 1603915619 949782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LBAs are limited to O(n) space by definition, if you have more it isn't an LBA < 1603915629 574490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, what an LBA can do depends on the input encoding, as a consequence < 1603915651 600933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, automaton theory is concerned with specific input encodings (I think it evolved out of parser theory, and of course a parser doesn't get to choose how its input is encoded) < 1603915691 505270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "encode the input to be input + length(input)^2 null symbols" step is something that an LBA can't do, and if you have a separate program or person doing it for you, that raises the computational class of the system as a whole < 1603915706 78285 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1603915746 496414 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh, bingo, that was the piece of information I wasn't seeing., That encoding of the input requires a separate computational object with greater expressive power than an LBA < 1603915767 679264 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you < 1603915834 913163 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there such a thing as a polynomial bounded automaton? < 1603915844 390749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't think they've been studied much < 1603915875 832889 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1603915929 978681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LBAs have a tendency to arise "naturally" sometimes, e.g. https://esolangs.org/wiki/BuzzFizz is an LBA < 1603915942 488403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I've seen higher-degree bounded automata in the wild < 1603916029 925576 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interesting thing about LBAs that I was exploring is their link to monotonic grammars. I doubt polynomial bounded automata have such a nice representation < 1603916187 126655 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing intuition: if you only use non-nested for loops for control flow in a procedural program, you get an LBA? < 1603916262 157570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this really depends on what sort of memory access and arithmetic primitives you have available < 1603916274 66650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably an LBA if you don't have anything more powerful than "increment" for doing arithmetic < 1603916278 775251 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm thinking in the realm of BF < 1603916282 607161 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1603916461 214256 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is all really helpful. Thank you. I'm going to do more reading and try to expand my intuition on how this interesting little things work. < 1603916462 414573 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603916750 467947 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603916767 792199 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603917484 499756 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1603917926 116312 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in < 1603918020 525655 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603918628 472150 :divergence!~div@176.61.146.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603918671 541847 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1603919084 530087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-25.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1603919264 788154 :divergence!~div@176.61.146.107 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1603919295 814541 :diverger!~div@titan.pathogen.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922357 478177 :hakatashi1!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922357 848620 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922357 848658 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922358 113987 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1603922363 213360 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922374 37844 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922378 812031 :BWBellairs!~bwbellair@hellomouse/dev/bwbellairs JOIN :#esoteric < 1603922514 347247 :aloril!~aloril@mobile-access-b0480e-37.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1603924445 579415 :aaaaaa!~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603924914 192552 :Arcorann_!~awych@121-200-5-186.79c805.syd.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603927244 313266 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1603927719 168346 :orbitaldecay!c1941256@193.148.18.86 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1603929503 524541 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection