00:01:19 [[Dotcomma]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78271 * Redwolf10105 * (+7191) Created page (copied from Github repo) 00:02:19 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78272&oldid=78259 * Redwolf10105 * (+15) 00:13:55 so, i've been thinking 00:14:03 if there was a variant of brainfuck with only 00:14:08 <>+- 00:14:19 but with the difference that programs could be infinitely long 00:14:32 would that make it turing complete? 00:16:56 Doubtful, since you've removed all the commands that depend on the state of memory 00:17:45 shouldn't it be possible to implement conditionals based on these? the program would be really large if possible.. 00:17:59 Conditioning on what? 00:18:32 ie simulating a turing machine using the above and simulating conditional flow 00:19:30 Question still stands: what would the conditionals depend on 00:19:49 i'm not sure 00:20:20 i've been trying to figure out if it's possible to do that without looping/explicit conditionals 00:25:21 i know that the above instructions are at least as powerful as a linear bounded automata if said infinite program repeats infinitely(ie within a infinite loop) 00:45:05 -!- esowiki has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:45:42 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:47:05 -!- FreeFull has quit. 01:22:00 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 01:24:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:38:16 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:38:58 ah nvm 01:39:20 it seems somebody has done something similar b4 01:40:04 Link? 01:42:00 https://github.com/ebuswell/noneleatic (they needed to add some more functionality and also self-modification to get it to be turing complete) 02:04:42 tends to be the case unless you have explicit conditionals. 02:09:38 What if you add a catch block for value out of range? 02:24:26 tromp: hmm, not a hard one though (re: ponder) 02:34:12 I think I prefer the ones that benefit from a bit of programming. 02:41:29 `learn The password of the month is Florida Recount 2.0 02:41:32 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is Florida Recount 2.0 02:46:28 Uh oh. 02:46:37 I guess it's time to vote. 02:56:36 Do you like my idea of "Malaclypse the Younger" Un-card? (This card makes all intervening if clauses true, including keyword abilities (such as evolve).) 03:51:26 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:51:56 -!- APic has joined. 03:56:18 [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78273&oldid=78262 * Tetrapyronia * (+63) Added Waduzitdo 04:11:02 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 04:17:01 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:55:07 Does any pinball game have progressive difficulty for extra balls? 07:09:28 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hugs~ <3). 07:22:46 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:48:29 -!- grumboo has changed nick to grumble. 08:11:08 int-e: yes, easy but cute. even the bonus is easy, 09:08:15 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 09:10:23 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:42:20 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:53:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:53:34 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:56:24 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:02:25 -!- mniip has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds). 10:23:37 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:30:06 -!- Strykar has joined. 10:30:17 -!- Strykar has left. 10:45:02 -!- mniip has joined. 11:44:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:02:19 -!- arseniiv has joined. 13:01:09 [[Talk:Queuenanimous]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78274&oldid=78270 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+247) /* Definition of [ and ] */ Will clarify in article 13:02:26 [[Queuenanimous]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78275&oldid=74923 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+80) /* Commands */ Clarify 13:10:59 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 13:16:09 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1). 13:16:24 -!- hendursaga has joined. 13:20:28 https://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/November2020.html i dont understand. what list of numbers do you start with? 13:23:14 i get it 13:32:03 `olist 1218 13:32:07 olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1218.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 13:32:44 i dont think i can do this ponder - i had a look at easier cases like 7 and 127 but i kinda dont understand what to do 13:33:02 rain1: so ponder it 13:33:55 also don't talk about it too much, you might spoil things 13:39:03 is there a place i can ask about this without spoiling? 13:43:29 I don't really know... get a friend interested, talk to them in private :P 13:48:51 or you could wait a month and then ask here when the challenge isn't so fresh 13:48:56 -!- Frater_EST has joined. 13:49:10 there is that 13:50:04 or perhaps look for one of these web-based message boards with their newfangled HTML technology, they tend to be more structured than IRC so it's easier to hide a spoiler such that people who don't want to read it yet won't accidentally see it 13:50:18 This one isn't really all that amenable to hints that aren't spoilers. Generic problem solving advice applies, of course... work forward, work backwards, try to show that it can't be done to get ideas, sleep on it, blah. 13:50:42 (youngsters and their formatted text and bulky servers that archive everything...) 13:51:01 There's always ROT13 13:51:15 sure we can do rot13 a month from now 13:52:04 jul pna'g lbh whfg fgneg jvgu gur gnetrg ahzore va lbhe yvfg? 13:52:15 Arcorann: this one has a small but relevant competetive component 13:52:27 Fair enough 13:53:40 > 2^31 - 1 > 1000000000 -- ebg13 jbexf ernyyl jryy sbe guvf 13:53:43 True 13:54:06 lol 13:54:47 oh that clarifies the meaning of "remaining number" for me 14:00:47 ebg13 jbexf ernyyl jryy sbe guvf <-- http://rot8000.com/Index 14:05:40 would someone check my solution please? 14:05:50 i can PM it 14:06:16 Arcorann, is that chinese? 14:06:48 -!- Frater_EST has left. 14:12:05 I don't mind checking your solution 14:12:42 Depends on what you put in. But most of the BMP is the CJK unified ideographs (4E00-9FFF), so that's quite likely to be where you land in. 14:13:10 yeah, pastebins work too, put the spoiler in a pasted page, the non-spoiler part with a link in irc 14:38:23 eval "$(cat somefile)" instead of source somefile . gets today's useless use of cat award. 14:40:02 Is it completely useless? If `somefile` is a pipe special file this ensures that EOF is reached before evaluation starts ;) 14:40:28 int-e: dunno, I think it's worse than useless 14:40:43 as in it might break in some case 14:40:54 but I don't know any case when it would actually break 14:40:58 I'm just looking for a semantic difference and pretend it's a feature. 14:41:36 if you're fresh out of PIDs or root file system, then the `cat` invocation may fail. 14:41:53 int-e: let's say it's a performance difference: we're no longer in the DOS age where the shell has to keep re-reading the same sector of the batch file before each command just to save memory 14:42:17 but then source with bash doesn't do that anymore, it has proper buffers behind it 14:42:32 so it does the optimization better than requiring to read the whole file at once 14:43:04 to be clear, I'd write `source somefile` or `. somefile` under most circumstances. 14:43:09 I guess they differ in how they treat the positional parameters $@ 14:43:39 but that's not stopping me from finding a narrow use for the cat thing :P 14:44:09 (Especially since I recently saw a whole script wrapped in a subshell for a similar purpose) 14:44:37 Namely, here: https://get-ghcup.haskell.org/ 14:45:14 normally I'd say that eval "$(cat somefile)" is worse because if something fails, the backtrace won't be able to show the correct filename and line number into the source code, but for the shell this doesn't actually apply, it doesn't show filenames and line numbers anyway I think 14:45:29 * int-e notes the channel name. 14:45:43 int-e: how about, it's easy to change from cat to zcat to transparently execute possibly compressed source files? 14:45:47 * int-e rejects all notions of utility. 14:46:14 generalizing to zcat is cute too 14:46:32 though I expect . <(zcat file) to work. 14:46:44 (in bash) 14:47:46 well ok, but that pipe substitution is a "new" feature (in that I started to write scripts in bash before bash 2, back when it didn't even have the ${foo/bar/qux} substring substitution... I'm old) 14:47:59 so perhaps the eval was written before that existed 14:48:22 The pipe substitution is the best thing bash ever stole from zsh. 14:48:45 (At least that's where I think I saw it first.) 14:49:15 I'm using it *a lot*. 14:49:17 isn't the {1..20} numeric brace thing the best thing bash ever stole from zsh? 14:49:49 stuff like comm -12 <(... | sort) <(... | sort) 14:50:10 But I'm using the {01..20} thing much less. 14:52:34 I'm using the brace numerics a lot when I move photos to category directories after I copy them from the memory card of the camera, since I generally have contiguous sequences of more than two photos that I took at the same location and that go into the same category 14:53:19 so it's like mv -vi tmp/P11901{08..13}.JPG bp/ferenc/ 14:53:24 sure 14:53:56 It's useful, it just feels comparatively mundane. 14:54:04 hmm, now I actually have to look up if I have a P11901{08..13} and which category they're in 14:55:39 not yet, that number is in the future apparently 15:01:45 -!- MDude has joined. 15:08:26 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:09:54 -!- LKoen has joined. 15:10:37 -!- Arcorann has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:11:44 -!- Arcorann has joined. 15:12:50 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:21:32 -!- Arcorann has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:26:26 -!- LKoen has joined. 15:36:37 I do, and they're a subset of the source images of a panorama (p1190107-114.jpg) taken from https://www.espoo.fi/en-us/housing_and_environment/Streets_and_Transport/Pedestrian_and_bicycle_traffic/Espoos_Waterfront_Walkway back in 2013. 15:37:42 http://zem.fi/tmp/p1190107-114.jpg 15:51:44 -!- adu has joined. 15:52:48 are there other ponders that you recommend? 16:21:12 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 16:26:44 rain1: it's not from that series, but there's always the mind bug https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-08.html#llj that we tried to optimize last year, and I should probably eventually get back to it, but I realized that the method that I wanted to use wouldn't quite work, so I'll have to figure out what exactly to do 16:38:27 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hiromi-mi * New user account 16:39:07 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 16:48:36 whew it looks tough for me 16:57:27 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78276&oldid=78265 * Hiromi-mi * (+145) /* Introductions */ 16:58:53 -!- limbo_ has joined. 16:59:03 hello 16:59:41 is this an occult channel 17:00:05 have a look at the topic 17:00:26 [[Waduzitdo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78277&oldid=63151 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category languages 17:00:29 `welcome limbo_ 17:00:31 limbo_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 17:04:04 um im not a programmer 17:11:28 -!- limbo_ has left. 17:11:53 `grwp occult 17:11:58 tea:Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean. 17:12:27 no, the ocean is now obviously a giant cup of tee 17:12:31 *tea 17:12:47 "attempted" 17:37:38 wait, it has to be in a silver alambic? so that's what I was doing wrong! 17:39:10 -!- imode has joined. 17:41:51 -!- deltaepsilon23 has joined. 17:52:43 -!- deltaepsilon23 has changed nick to delta23. 18:04:03 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:09:42 -!- adu has joined. 18:12:32 -!- hendursaga has joined. 18:34:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:36:17 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 18:46:01 -!- adu has joined. 19:05:13 `? spangle 19:05:15 spangle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:05:32 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:32:26 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 21:38:39 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:09:35 [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78278&oldid=78273 * Tetrapyronia * (+39) Added Numobin 22:42:36 -!- Arcorann has joined. 22:50:28 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:52:09 -!- ski has joined. 23:03:49 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:14:01 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:19:14 -!- ski has joined. 23:24:19 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:34:03 -!- ski has joined. 23:43:17 -!- adu has joined.