00:08:25 [[Loadstring]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80079&oldid=80078 * Pen Island * (+228) added new instruction into interpreter and documentation, also updated the cat program further simplyfing it! 00:12:32 -!- ubq323 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3). 00:21:09 -!- Arcorann_ has joined. 00:27:19 -!- rain1 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0). 00:29:42 what do you run? 00:37:57 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 00:51:45 [[Talk:Loadstring]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80080 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+219) /* Source request */ new section 00:53:22 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:08:51 [[Loadstring]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80081&oldid=80079 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18) /* Cat program */ Should work now (should halt on null char) 01:57:19 [[I don't care about esolangs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80082 * Quintopia * (+280) parking this name 03:07:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:08:32 shachaf: I was reading about the reasons people use shared rather than statically linked libraries, and the most compelling reason seems to be "you want to link code written in a compiled language together with code written in an interpreted language" 03:08:56 that way, the interpreter can load the shared library at runtime, without needing to change the interpreter executable 03:09:12 however, it strikes me that there's quite a difference between dlopen() … dlsym() … call via function pointer 03:09:24 and having ld.so do relocations 03:09:39 Hmm, language implementation details don't seem to be that compelling. 03:10:04 Well... Hmm. 03:10:19 -!- adu has joined. 03:10:23 I guess the thing here is that you need to do relocations on the .a to be able to use it. 03:10:39 Whereas the .so mostly just works as-is, and you just need some runtime relocations? 03:11:00 so I think my current view is along the lines of "shared libraries don't seem all that useful when it comes to making hardcoded function calls directly to functions in them, but loading a library and extracting function pointers from it at runtime may still be a useful operation" 03:11:03 Perl actually allows you to link to code in static libraries, but it requires recompiling the perl(1) executable 03:11:49 there are lots of similarities between .so and .a, the only real difference is when the relocations happen 03:11:51 Many libraries require you to use dlopen/dlsym (or an equivalent) for regular use. 03:12:21 I'm surprised at that; most of the best-known shared libraries (libc, libm, libz, libpng, etc.) are designed to be linked against directly 03:12:25 Anyway, I think that whatever language your program is written in, you should be able to make a self-contained executable that works with minimal system dependencies. 03:12:32 you *could* dlopen/dlsym them but it would be a weird thing todo 03:12:33 I'm thinking of things like OpenGL. 03:13:02 well, thinking about it one way, most executables are specific to a particular operating system 03:13:11 but with shared libraries, there's no real reason that has to be the case 03:13:31 I can easily imagine a dynamically linked executable that works on both Linux and BSD via dynamically linking to different libcs 03:14:13 but, that isn't a very popular thing to do (to the extent that the more common portability solution is for the OS to have a mechanism to change its system call interface to mimic another OS's, asking userspace for help when it sees a system call it doesn't understand 03:14:23 ) 03:14:43 graphics libraries strike me as something that might quite plausibly vary between computeres 03:14:55 Linux and BSD are very similar. It seems trickier with Windows, for instance. 03:15:13 like, does it make sense for every program to have statically linked-in functions for talking to ATI, NVidia, Intel, etc. graphics cards? what if a new one is released 03:15:14 Broadly I agree that the core of your program should be platform-independent. 03:15:30 Hmm, I think the situation with OpenGL etc. is pretty bad, though. 03:15:41 Where in theory it's portable, but in practice you run into vendor-specific issues anyway. 03:15:56 And on top of that, there are more graphics libraries that you need to support than actual vendors of graphics cards. 03:16:10 At least Direct3D, Metal, Vulkan, OpenGL (ES). 03:16:14 the Linux console recently added support designed to make Wine and friends more efficient; it works via having two programs mapped into the same address space, the program you're running and a system call emulator 03:16:43 if it sees a system call from the program, it just bounces it to the system call emulator and lets it take care of it, if it gets a system call from the emulator then it handles it as normal 03:16:56 err, Linux the kernel, not the console 03:17:05 Interesting. 03:17:36 This sounds a lot like having the emulator attached as a debugger. 03:18:07 (In PTRACE_SYSEMU mode.) 03:18:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:18:59 But why is this necessary for WINE? Windows doesn't have a system call interface. 03:19:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:19:11 it's a lot more efficient than ptrace, and more efficient than seccomp 03:19:27 and Windows does have a system call interface internally, it's just hidden from the user 03:19:50 and not documented I think 03:20:04 Aha, is this https://lwn.net/Articles/824380/ ? 03:20:14 It says "Windows applications are increasingly executing system calls directly rather than going through the API". 03:20:28 it could be; I noticed this in the Linux source documentation 03:20:53 but yes, that article seems to be describing the same mechanism 03:21:16 I see. So they don't go through PTRACE_SYSEMU for most system calls, only for system calls that are executed directly by the application. 03:21:49 So depending on which part of memory the syscall instruction is in, it's either handled by a SYSEMU-like mechanism or is just hanled directly. 03:22:04 ah right, it seems to be describing an older version of the same mechanism 03:22:14 the spec changed a bit since that was written 03:22:17 What's the new version? 03:23:12 I'm trying to remember 03:24:47 guess I'll go read the docs again, they take a while to decompress though 03:25:16 I'm searching the Linux and WINE source for relevant strings and not finding them. 03:26:17 hmm, I can't find it there either 03:26:27 now I'm really confused, because I must have read this somewhere or else I wouldn't know about it 03:26:45 it isn't in man prctl or man mmap 03:26:50 unless I missed it 03:27:13 shachaf: Oh n-step Steve got an update so that you can actually trust the map after you have all the kittens 03:27:30 int-e: Oh no, I'd better get back to that. 03:27:32 Let me see. 03:27:42 maybe it's in a newer version of the Linux sources than I happen to have handy 03:27:47 Apparently I have 14 stars. 03:27:57 (I'm looking at 5.4) 03:28:13 So I just need to get east of 8,9. 03:28:39 I have three solutions for getting the flag far enough for the stars, but none of them to get to the next room. 03:32:48 Everything I do is off by 1. 03:38:39 They end with the accessible 8-flag either where it is, or two squares north, or one square south. 03:38:55 If I could end with it one square north, it seems easy. 03:39:30 But to do that I'd have to do something like push the 7-flag left. 03:39:34 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:51:44 The main problem is that when I run this for a while, it spins my fans up and gets slow and unpleasant. 03:53:59 -!- adu has joined. 03:57:07 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:02:09 ais523: I found it: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/admin-guide/syscall-user-dispatch.rst 04:02:12 shachaf: Oh, I figured it out again. 04:04:17 My guess is I'm not on quite the right track. 04:05:35 there's some pretty intricate parity hacking in this one 04:05:59 shachaf: aha, that file isn't in my Linux source, so it must just be too new 04:06:15 Yes, it was added in Nov. 04:11:16 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:23:12 Oh, if I'd looked a little more, I'd've found https://lwn.net/Articles/826313/ on LWN. 04:39:19 shachaf: if you want to reduce the search space, this is a viable start: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/kitty3.png obviously this is a spoiler, even though what remains to be done is still a challenge, I believe. 04:42:22 Hmm, OK. 04:44:05 I've certainly been in that state many times. 04:44:46 yeah that's expected 04:45:06 I mean I kept comping back to it because it felt like the most promising one. 04:52:32 -!- tromp has joined. 04:57:16 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:05:59 ais523: oh right! you need tricks to deliver syscalls that way now, because x86 has two generations of new system call instructions, rather than just the old 286 interrupt gate mechanism. if we still had the old mechanism, this would be trivial, because DOS, Win32, and Linux syscalls just used different interrupt numbers. 05:06:54 two, oh, syscall and sysenter, in some order 05:08:22 b_jonas: Well, you'd need some kernel support regardless. 05:08:32 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 05:08:38 int-e: I don't think anyone uses sysenter these days. 05:08:47 I'm not sure any amd64 CPU ever used it? 05:10:32 shachaf: sure, but we already have kernel support that lets it forward interrupts originating in userspace to userspace, not only for real mode DOS emulation, but also for division by zero and floating point interrupts and a few other such weird things. they're not used often, but they exist. 05:11:10 even the breakpoint interrupt is handled that way: the kernel just sends a signal to the process, filling out the siginfo struct, and if the debugger wishes, it catches that signal with ptrace. 05:11:25 Of course. 05:11:44 shachaf: https://wiki.osdev.org/Sysenter#Compatibility_across_Intel_and_AMD ...funny :) 05:11:46 But you don't have a guarantee that no other system uses int $0x80 05:12:06 int-e: Oh no. 05:13:02 whereas for system calls, the kernel actually has to distinguish between the three Linux syscall layers: 64-bit, x32 (deprecated, distinguished by a bit in the syscall number), 32-bit (distinguished by the userspace running 32-bit code); and I think BSD distinguishes between BSD syscalls and emulated Linux syscalls, though maybe those are the same syscalls with just a process-global setting or something 05:14:23 "But you don't have a guarantee that no other system uses int $0x80" => real mode programs use it, sure, but emulating real mode programs needs a lot of custom support, both from the kernel side and from the userspace. 05:14:48 but there aren't many protected mode supervisors, presumably Linux or whoever chose that interrupt number chose one that didn't clash with the other ones 05:16:03 like, I've no idea what syscall interfaces Win16 and Win95 and WinNT and OS/2 and the two or three big DOS protected mode enchancers use, but Linus or whoever chose that syscall number probably knew about all that when they started to write x86_32 system-level code 05:16:56 and if you want to emulate an operating system that is really uncooperative, then you need a full machine virtualizer anyway, and x86 has like three or four underlying mechanisms for that already 05:17:04 Windows doesn't have a stable ABI for this. 05:17:07 although now that I think of it 05:17:26 how does UML work? 05:17:35 like how does it handle system calls from the processes it runs? 05:17:44 user-mode linux, the one that HackEso uses 05:17:48 `ping 05:17:49 I think it uses ptrace. 05:17:50 pong 05:17:51 he's here 05:18:02 PTRACE_SYSEMU lets you handle system calls yourself. 05:18:20 Ah, `man ptrace` mentions that that's what it's for. 05:18:50 that sounds rather impractical. I imagine the details get messy 05:20:22 ah well, I consider myself a user-mode programmer, I don't want to get into the details of system programming 05:22:31 of course I'm willing to do messy stuff in user space instead 05:23:52 almost any use of ptrace gets messy :) 05:24:24 esoteric stuff too 05:24:29 int-e: yes 05:24:32 I just measured out of curiosity and `perf trace` is way way faster than strace. 05:24:44 Sometimes it drops events, but maybe that's that's what you want. 05:24:52 Too bad it needs a lot more permission. 05:25:05 (It looks like it needs the same permissions to trace a child as to trace the entire system.) 05:25:33 presumably the syscall logging in `perf trace` happens in kernel mode, as opposed to `strace` where the kernel has to call back to a usermode process to do the logging 05:26:28 shachaf: or you can use good old compiler level active tracing, where the compiler compiles short tracing sequences, like ones that increase a counter, to every function or every branch 05:26:39 Yes. I don't know much about how kernel tracepoints work. 05:27:06 b_jonas: Sure, of course if you can modify the program you can do much better. 05:27:28 shachaf: yes, and you don't have to recompile everything, only the compilation units you're interested in 05:27:51 But you have to be compiling the program in the first place. 05:27:58 yes 05:28:13 either that, or decompiling it 05:28:20 but it's hard to know what asm-level transformations will be safe 05:28:51 I've been wondering whether typical .s and/or .o files output by compilers do anything which would break if you moved things around, inserted instructions, etc. 05:29:10 I think .o files don't have relocations for things like local jumps within a function, but .s files do 05:29:52 Facebook (?) has an optimizer that disassembles a .o, moves things around, and reassembles it. 05:29:59 If I remember correctly. 05:31:07 To move parts of functions that profiles show are cold to their own section, away from the hot code. 05:46:37 -!- tromp has joined. 05:50:33 int-e: OK, I got to the memorial. 05:51:16 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:51:42 yay 05:52:13 (and the final star was just a red herring all the time) 05:52:32 Oh, you can't get it? 05:52:42 But I think I'm not done, because your map had an extra area. 05:52:45 shachaf: But I did find the 8,9 level amazingly delicate. 05:53:06 shachaf: Well, I *think* you can't get it. 05:53:35 Your map had an extra walled-off area at 8,16. 05:53:38 shachaf: The map has changed, the solid walls connecting to hidden areas are no longer solid. 05:53:48 Oh no, I have to do it again? 05:53:52 I already went to 8,15 twice. 05:54:37 I'm not sure which of 8,9 or 8,14 is harder 05:54:54 the former uses the parity theme, but the latter has more degrees of freedom 05:55:04 8,14 was certainly easier for me. 05:55:07 But still annoying. 05:55:37 it wasn't clear to me at all where the 9 and 4 pieces are supposed to go 05:56:16 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:56:36 But when replaying today I still mostly remembered, and once those spots are fixed things become relatively easy. 05:56:38 It's not clear to me either, but I figured it out a couple of times. 05:57:20 But... how do you have 15 stars then? 05:57:26 Isn't there a star down there? 05:57:38 Yes, but I don't remember the solution. 05:58:05 * int-e is confused. 05:59:16 I got to 8,15 twice before, and now I don't remember how I did it. But it was much easier for me than 8,9. 05:59:24 (I don't particularly like the new map... I wish there was a third line type for the former hidden areas.) 06:00:45 The map looks the same to me. 06:00:53 So I must not have gotten all the kittens. 06:01:09 But you see that by the exlamation marks. 06:01:14 +c 06:01:19 What exclamation marks? 06:01:57 on the map, where there are kittens to be rescued :P 06:02:29 Alos there are 9 of those. 06:02:58 I have 9 kittens and one goat. 06:03:47 So if you look at the walls to the top-right of the hard ares, are those solid as in https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/kitty2.png or broken like ordinary connecting rooms? 06:04:05 OK, I'm at 8,15 and I see nothing unusual. 06:04:07 It's possible that the game remembers some state... I played in a fresh profile today. 06:04:33 Oh, they're broken. 06:04:39 that's the change 06:04:52 and the same applies to 8,15 06:04:59 I see. 06:05:02 which used to look like a seaparate room 06:05:08 So there's nothing left? 06:05:12 wow, my typing sucks 06:05:53 if you have seen the memorial and rescued the goat... I think you're done. 06:06:02 s/seen/visited/ 06:06:59 Seemswhoa, I just triggered a weird bug. 06:07:00 And while it looks in 5,10 like you maybe could bring two kittens in from the right... I don't believe that's actually possible, and it would rather spoil the ending too. 06:07:25 (5,10 is where the remaining 16th star is) 06:08:03 I really resent that star. :P 06:09:38 Hmm. 06:09:44 And there's nothing to be done in 6,8 with a second kitten? 06:10:24 hmmm 06:10:40 Or in 8,8 06:11:08 -!- ArthurStrong has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:11:08 Well, there was nothing interesting there? Some ice, and I guess you can explore more of the room... but no exits, nothing to push around... 06:11:58 So probably something to toy with, but no puzzle. 06:32:52 int-e: OK, I looked up whether the star is possible, and it is, and now I got it. 06:33:05 I should have spent more time trying to get it before being told it was possible. 06:33:52 This is a mild spoiler, but I think this explains why there's a door down the corridor to the memorial. 06:37:54 hrm 06:39:01 Isaw that opening 07:22:41 @metar koak 07:22:41 KOAK 190653Z 36013G22KT 10SM FEW180 20/M09 A2994 RMK AO2 PK WND 04032/0633 SLP136 T02001089 07:22:42 @metar ksfo 07:22:42 KSFO 190656Z 35013KT 10SM FEW200 19/M03 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP134 T01891028 07:23:09 If only I knew how to read that. 07:24:04 I guess PK WND means "peak wind". 07:31:11 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:31:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:31:20 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:45:45 shachaf: I see, thanks. 07:46:09 Now it says "100% complete". 07:46:24 so it does 07:46:51 tbf, that was some heavy duty cloning 07:47:07 So I'm not too sad that I decided it wasn't possible last time. 07:49:49 I was also misled by a comment that said "I got all 15 stars". 07:52:43 still, I failed :) 07:54:02 at least I now understand why there's a door and another teleport at the right end of the memorial 07:55:53 Right. 07:56:27 -!- tromp has joined. 07:58:21 Oh since I love complaining about youtube lately... another thing that feels new is that I have to click `back` twice to get back to the index I found the video on... and that despite the URL being unchanged. 07:58:52 . o O ( I bet this increases engagement with a video by precious seconds ) 07:59:57 I'm not sure whether this is deliberate or an artifact of being prompted for login (no) and cookies (sure, I'll accept them, good luck getting them back) 08:24:55 -!- Arcorann_ has joined. 08:36:13 -!- rain1 has joined. 09:28:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:30:34 -!- ubq323 has joined. 09:41:32 -!- TheLie has joined. 09:45:02 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:45:14 -!- atehwa has joined. 09:51:31 -!- arseniiv has joined. 09:57:22 @metar koak 09:57:22 KOAK 190953Z 36021G26KT 10SM FEW250 17/M08 A2995 RMK AO2 PK WND 03039/0917 SLP140 T01671078 10:00:13 warm 10:00:15 dry 10:00:20 @metar lowi 10:00:21 LOWI 190950Z 28008KT CAVOK M06/M07 Q1022 R08/19//95 NOSIG 10:01:31 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:04:37 It is windy. 10:05:20 "from the N (360 degrees) at 24 MPH (21 knots; 10.8 m/s) gusting to 30 MPH (26 knots; 13.4 m/s)" 10:05:28 Is that high? I have no idea. 10:05:57 @meta EGNT 10:05:58 EGNT 190950Z 21001KT 1200 R25/P1500 BCFG FEW003 05/04 Q0997 10:06:26 Maybe I should move closer to an airport 10:07:07 In Italy? 10:07:14 @metar EGLL 10:07:15 EGLL 190950Z AUTO 24015KT 9999 BKN016 12/09 Q1006 NOSIG 10:07:40 shachaf: I'm planning to move close to LIDE but @metar doesn't seem to know about it 10:07:59 fizzie: hmm. https://windows2universe.org/earth/Atmosphere/wind_speeds.html strong gale/fresh breeze... 10:08:17 err, shachaf: 10:09:00 Hmm. 10:09:06 m/s is the only unit of wind speed that I have any frame of reference to, because it's what Finnish weather reports use exclusively. 10:10:07 @metar ksfo 10:10:07 KSFO 190956Z 02029G39KT 10SM CLR 16/M02 A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 01039/0951 SLP130 T01611017 10:17:08 fizzie: they tend to use km/h around here 10:17:28 SI units are not saving the day this time 10:18:12 What's that in fur/ftn 10:18:35 hi Taneb 10:18:38 seen any good cats lately? 10:19:06 Not in person (not been leaving the house) but some friends sent my some photos 10:19:54 very good 10:20:21 I saw a cat in a video call the other day. More video calls should feature cats. 10:20:24 (It had a human dialing in too, it wasn't just the cat joining the meeting.) 10:20:30 I'm having trouble with the concept of a good cat. :P 10:20:42 I agree with you, the word "good" is redundant. 10:20:51 oooh its on 10:20:54 Just a longwinded way fo saying "seen any cats lately?". 10:20:56 Nah, they range from evil to neutral. 10:21:15 * rain1 gets giant foam pointing hand 10:21:15 Certainly chaotic on the other axis. 10:21:21 int-e: here "good" is referring to their catness, not their morality 10:21:26 A good cat is a cat which is good at being a cat 10:21:32 Some cats might be evil, but obviously that doesn't preclude them from being good. 10:21:43 felinity? 10:22:03 Similar to the use of good in "can someone recommend me a good book" 10:22:28 This is a different sense of the word "good", but perhaps also relevant: http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comic/dog-philosophy 10:23:20 19. good, honest -- (not forged; "a good dollar bill") // could also refer to a cat that's actually a cat and not, e.g., a dog wearing a cat outfit 10:23:47 I will not stand for cat forgeries. 10:23:53 Only the real thing for me. 10:24:59 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:49:11 how about a sabretooth tiger? 10:52:36 Real. 10:54:28 -!- arseniiv has joined. 10:54:37 Tasmanian tiger? 10:55:49 We could try to get Taneb to rescue some n-step kittens. 10:56:01 You could in principle 10:56:37 Taneb: https://epicpikaguy.itch.io/n-step-steve-part-1 11:07:51 shachaf: How are your hiding places :P 11:08:04 Hmm, nothing since I solved 609. 11:08:08 I should get back to it. 11:08:28 I did some of the next levels but there's still some left. 11:12:53 -!- ubq323 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3). 11:12:58 This is a cute game, I will play more of it when I am not working 11:13:07 -!- ubq323 has joined. 11:29:20 int-e: oh kittens 11:30:52 for some reason my cat lounged at the edge of my desk today, maybe because there’s a radiator right nearby 11:34:14 for many years she was disinterested in this table but some days ago she jumped on it and wanted to go behind the screen, though she couldn’t and then scampered away. Long ago she several times laid on my hand on the table and it seemed to be comfortable for her this way, but then she abandoned visiting the table 11:58:53 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 11:58:53 -!- vertrex has quit (*.net *.split). 11:58:53 -!- kmc has joined. 11:59:07 -!- vertrex has joined. 11:59:07 -!- vertrex has quit (Changing host). 11:59:07 -!- vertrex has joined. 12:24:24 -!- ubq323 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:46:46 room 6,10 is so philosophical 13:05:58 -!- MDude has joined. 13:12:12 -!- ubq323 has joined. 13:34:03 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:34:16 [[HQ9+~]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80083&oldid=80003 * EZ132 * (-79) 13:34:55 -!- adu has joined. 13:34:57 @metar koak 13:34:58 KOAK 191253Z 01019G41KT 10SM CLR 15/M08 A2994 RMK AO2 PK WND 01041/1244 SLP137 T01501083 13:35:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 13:36:24 It seems to be gusting up to "Stong gale". 13:50:30 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 13:51:53 -!- adu has joined. 13:54:53 -!- Hooloovo0 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:57:02 -!- LKoen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:58:42 -!- LKoen has joined. 13:59:15 -!- Hooloovo0 has joined. 14:10:21 -!- TheLie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:28:39 -!- ubq323 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:35:13 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:52:22 -!- mmmattyx has joined. 15:02:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:32:54 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:39:20 -!- arseniiv has joined. 15:56:50 -!- ubq323 has joined. 15:57:45 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 16:14:12 (It had a human dialing in too)" => of course. cats regularly use humans as servants for tasks like opening cans, opening and closing doors, setting up video calls. they're too classy to do all that work themselves. 16:15:30 " and not, e.g., a dog wearing a cat outfit" as in https://xkcd.com/629/ 16:22:51 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 16:48:31 -!- arseniiv_ has joined. 16:49:11 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:52:41 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 16:55:25 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:55:34 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 17:14:00 -!- arseniiv_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:23:22 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:30:00 -!- arseniiv_ has joined. 17:34:51 -!- TheLie has joined. 17:52:59 -!- ubq323 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3). 17:53:13 -!- ubq323 has joined. 18:02:58 -!- ubq323 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:26:35 -!- TheLie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:27:07 -!- rain1 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0). 18:37:38 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:54:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:54:54 -!- tromp has joined. 19:01:17 -!- delta23 has joined. 19:05:26 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:06:11 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:06:25 -!- xelxebar has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:09:56 -!- xelxebar has joined. 19:12:03 -!- ubq323 has joined. 19:15:04 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:16:44 -!- tromp has joined. 19:22:04 -!- mmmattyx has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:28:59 [[Bit Stupid]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80084&oldid=56853 * Tetrapyronia * (+121) Added Hello, world! program 19:32:49 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:51:40 -!- ArthurStrong has joined. 19:54:13 -!- tromp has joined. 20:09:56 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:16:49 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:24:34 [[Demons]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80085&oldid=46808 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) /* Sample code */ cats 20:28:35 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AmIdle * New user account 20:30:33 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80086&oldid=80063 * AmIdle * (+143) /* Introductions */ 20:35:05 -!- tromp has joined. 20:35:58 [[User:AmIdle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80087 * AmIdle * (+46) User page 20:36:19 [[User talk:AmIdle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80088 * AmIdle * (+0) Created blank page 20:37:39 [[SE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80089&oldid=42984 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) /* Interpreter */ Cats 20:55:15 -!- ubq323 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:12:10 -!- mmmattyx has joined. 21:17:45 -!- dionys has joined. 21:18:42 -!- ubq323 has joined. 22:16:07 -!- Arcorann_ has joined. 22:16:39 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:17:02 -!- Arcorann_ has joined. 23:08:26 -!- rain1 has joined. 23:13:35 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:21:39 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:23:15 Do you think the picture editor of Free Hero Mesh is good, or do you think that perhaps some function is missing? I thought one is missing but I didn't know what it is called, so hopefully you would know? Specifically, that you might define a picture not according to its pixels but rather the other picture it is based on, together with rotation and/or colour replacements. 23:56:51 [[User:Quintopia]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80090&oldid=80026 * Quintopia * (+17) ldstr