00:07:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:09:46 -!- tromp has joined. 00:14:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:23:39 -!- ubq323 has joined. 00:25:31 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Openbyte * New user account 00:27:09 -!- lm978 has quit (Quit: Connection closed). 00:28:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 00:34:59 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80477&oldid=80463 * Openbyte * (+150) 00:35:08 -!- tromp has joined. 00:35:14 [[Pancake Stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80478&oldid=74928 * Openbyte * (+64) Added rust implementation link 00:35:59 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:36:04 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:41:19 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:03:04 -!- NotApplicable has joined. 01:20:13 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:30:28 -!- tromp has joined. 01:34:56 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:52:34 -!- ubq323 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3). 02:03:15 -!- NotApplicable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:14:58 -!- tromp has joined. 02:16:03 fungot: You feeling okay? 02:16:03 fizzie: oh, i changed 1 to 2, which is the problem? there we go. 02:16:54 Impressive, didn't even lose the TCP connection. 02:18:56 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:21:34 [[User:FreakCdev]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80479 * FreakCdev * (+279) Created page with "I'm the guy who is obsessed with programming languages, particularly esoteric ones. I have also created many programming languages like FreakC, Jellyscript, VNC and wrote an i..." 02:28:23 -!- tromp has joined. 02:32:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:36:44 -!- rain1 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0). 02:55:29 -!- tromp has joined. 02:59:55 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:10:14 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 04:34:54 -!- tromp has joined. 04:39:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:54:36 -!- compuwiz490 has joined. 04:54:49 -!- compuwiz490 has left. 05:19:29 -!- tromp has joined. 05:23:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:55:53 -!- Guest10 has joined. 06:43:28 -!- Guest10 has quit (Quit: Connection closed). 06:43:39 -!- Guest10 has joined. 07:07:32 -!- tromp has joined. 07:11:25 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:12:33 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:21:04 -!- Guest10 has quit (Quit: Connection closed). 07:25:40 -!- sprock has joined. 07:30:37 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:32:20 fungot are you binary or ternary? 07:32:20 nakilon: are you going to shoot me?" and get the primary key depending on that behaviour. in all other eu countries they are. 07:46:13 -!- tromp has joined. 07:54:44 fungot, @ 07:54:44 nakilon: right, but that's another flamewar!) capture him and get him to understand! 08:44:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:46:46 "If close() is interrupted by a signal that is to be caught, it shall return -1 with errno set to EINTR and the state of fildes is unspecified." 08:46:49 thosix 09:21:24 -!- dionys has joined. 09:23:59 -!- LKoen has joined. 09:56:15 `? password 09:56:18 The password of the month is eerily topical 10:25:02 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 10:28:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:28:17 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 10:39:58 -!- TheLie has joined. 10:59:04 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:00:31 -!- rain1 has joined. 11:05:14 [[User:Graue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80480&oldid=36063 * Graue * (+37) updates 11:06:03 -!- ArthurStrong has joined. 11:07:15 [[Sortle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80481&oldid=53715 * Graue * (+78) /* External resources */ add interpreter with debugger 12:25:42 -!- j-bot has joined. 12:27:24 [[Mirror-machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80482 * ReplayShells * (+386) Created page with "A Mirror-machine is an extremely simple program type invented by [[User:ReplayShells]] to check decision, addition, subtraction, loops, input and outputs. Rules: *Input vars..." 12:27:58 [[Mirror-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80483&oldid=80482 * ReplayShells * (+0) 12:29:01 [[User:ReplayShells]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80484&oldid=80467 * ReplayShells * (+57) 12:29:27 [[Mirror-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80485&oldid=80483 * ReplayShells * (+2) 13:02:32 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine). 13:05:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 13:20:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 13:21:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:24:04 -!- arseniiv has joined. 13:29:39 tromp: You might enjoy this month's Ponder This... it's not just stupid brute force this time. 13:31:47 the '*' part feels uninspired though 13:40:23 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:44:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:45:14 helloerjan! 13:45:19 hello! 13:45:34 it's been a while 13:45:53 i've been taking an internet white year :P 13:46:28 surprisingly, my freenode account seems to still be here. 13:46:56 oerjan: I didn't notice you were missing, but then I haven't been here much myself 13:47:29 shachaf: yo! i just saw your email 13:48:43 'Nicknames and accounts which are expired will not automatically be dropped. Please contact network staff if you would like to take over an expired nickname.' 13:48:55 i know, in principle. 13:49:10 So nobody wanted that nick and also knew the policy :) 13:49:30 right. 13:50:08 I didn't know... or maybe I did and forgot. 13:53:07 oh well, the timing was eery, what with covid going around 13:53:13 glad you're fine 13:53:52 `learn The password of the month is in order again. 13:53:57 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is in order again. 13:54:27 i think covid was part of it - too much depressing news around. 13:56:20 `dowg password 13:56:22 12361:2021-02-01 learn The password of the month is in order again. \ 12360:2021-01-08 learn The password of the month is eerily topical \ 12355:2020-12-01 learn The password of the month is wake these token brings \ 12348:2020-11-01 learn The password of the month is Florida Recount 2.0 \ 12344:2020-10-01 learn The password of the month is Algol Waterloo Athens aftermath quadrant hydrau 13:56:48 i see you've been keeping up. 13:57:29 I have no ida how common Ørjan is as a name 13:57:34 * no idea 13:58:56 where's oerjan when you need somebody to discuss the latest TWIST in GG... <-- months away. i may have some catchup to do. and check if the twist i _was_ expecting actually happened. 13:59:29 I forgot what that was about 14:00:00 ais523: i think when i checked it was the 50th most common first name for males in norway 14:00:12 my surname is 2nd, though. 14:01:32 yes, but your surname isn't part of your IRC nick 14:01:40 was wondering about the chances of people trying to steal your nick from you 14:04:15 when i first arrived here, it was actually taken (but expiring) 14:04:32 the "oe" probably helps too. 14:04:52 is ø legal in IRC nicks? 14:05:00 o! 14:05:41 not in the basic version, although the legality of "|" is a legacy from when that _was_ used for ø in some charsets, iirc 14:06:03 (or ö, since irc is originally finnish) 14:06:18 That'd be the ISO 646-FI character set. 14:06:23 ø and ö are notably different letters, though 14:06:40 fizzie: oh wow, ISO 646 14:06:48 Famously so, I would say 14:06:55 I thnk ISO 8859 has pretty much entirely replaced that, and both are nowadays obsolete 14:06:58 Yeah, but I'm sure there's some Norwegian-specific variant that has ø in there. 14:07:18 ISO 646 is the reason C has trigraphs, I think 14:07:37 if you don't have a | because your charset has a ö instead, you can write it as ??! instead 14:07:52 that said, ö for OR isn't that hard to remember 14:08:03 ISO 646-FI indeed has [\]^ and {|}~ as the uppercase/lowercase variants of äöåü. 14:08:14 german ö and English "or" have similar (but not identical) pronunciations 14:09:15 that reminds me of my failure to learn the pronunciation of de Bruijn... 14:09:23 Not exactly sure why ü is on that list, since it's not really part of the Finnish alphabet. Wouldn't think it's the most common non-native letter or anything. 14:09:41 ...my conclusion was that there's something in it that my ears aren't trained to hear 14:09:49 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:10:00 fizzie: maybe it's so the same character set can be used for both Finnish and some other language 14:10:06 ais523: (they're not at all similar... to my german ear) 14:10:08 German has äöü but also ß 14:10:27 int-e: well ö is closer to "or" than o is 14:10:56 but ö is more like "er" than "or", and still not that close 14:11:15 ah is closer to eh than uh is... I suppose 14:11:30 -!- tromp has joined. 14:11:38 I think the German variant of ISO 646 omits the å to make room for ß. 14:12:05 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:13:11 oerjan: Oh I do remember. I wanted someone who knows the ins and outs of the Blitzengard family, at the time. 14:13:47 (remember = I looked up the date in the logs and checked which comic I referred to) 14:14:01 It wasn't *that* uncommon to still see Usenet posts and emails and suchlike to get their äs and ös replaced with {s and |s when I was in university. And perhaps even more common to see them get replaced by d and v (which is what you get if you do 8-bit ISO-8859-1 but drop the 8th bit). 14:16:24 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:18:30 -!- tromp has joined. 14:22:37 int-e: thx for suggestion 14:23:37 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 14:41:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 14:52:55 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 14:53:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:55:50 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 15:00:04 -!- TheLie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:00:12 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:01:24 -!- MDude has joined. 15:06:27 -!- imode has joined. 15:17:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:18:23 -!- arseniiv has joined. 16:09:41 -!- sprock has joined. 16:22:47 -!- NotApplicable has joined. 16:49:21 [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80486&oldid=71469 * Rerednaw * (-9) 16:49:49 somebody made a copypasta language? 16:49:52 haha 17:17:33 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:49:29 -!- spruit11 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 18:03:19 -!- spruit11 has joined. 18:10:58 -!- acedic[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:11:28 -!- Discordian[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:22:18 -!- Discordian[m] has joined. 18:23:38 -!- acedic[m] has joined. 18:27:10 -!- NotApplicable has left. 18:28:06 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:31:51 -!- NotApplicable has joined. 18:44:05 -!- tromp has joined. 18:54:15 oerjan: helloerjan 18:54:39 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:57:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 19:03:52 -!- sprock has quit (Quit: ...). 19:06:03 `ølist 19:06:06 ​ølist? No such file or directory 19:07:48 -!- xelxebar_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:10:54 But now, you can add headers into messages to indicate the charater set to use. Glk uses ISO-8859-1, but also supports UTF-32. 19:12:31 -!- xelxebar has joined. 19:27:14 -!- tromp has joined. 19:27:59 hello oerjan 19:32:56 " that said, ö for OR isn't that hard to remember" => sure, it's indexing your arrays like vÄlÅ where it gets ugly. it worked better on BASIC microcomputers because BASIC doesn't use brackets or braces for anything, though those computers sometimes used different character sets than ISO-646. 19:36:07 but even the different character sets used the obvious idea of replacing the brackets and other characters that are not used in BASIC 19:42:10 -!- gurmble has joined. 19:45:04 -!- grumble has quit (Ping timeout: 606 seconds). 19:45:14 -!- gurmble has changed nick to grumble. 19:48:34 printf("Hello, world!Ön"); 19:48:36 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:49:54 -!- NotApplicable has changed nick to world. 19:49:56 Hi 19:50:08 -!- world has changed nick to NotApplicable. 19:50:28 C implementations that use Unicode should support this. They already support digraphs and trigraphs, so why not monographs? 20:01:23 -!- tromp has joined. 20:18:36 -!- j4cbo_ has joined. 20:18:39 -!- glowcoil_ has joined. 20:18:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 20:19:56 -!- ornxka_ has joined. 20:26:02 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (*.net *.split). 20:26:03 -!- j4cbo has quit (*.net *.split). 20:26:03 -!- ornxka has quit (*.net *.split). 20:26:03 -!- glowcoil has quit (*.net *.split). 20:26:11 -!- none30 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:26:12 -!- j4cbo_ has changed nick to j4cbo. 20:26:12 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 20:26:13 -!- glowcoil_ has changed nick to glowcoil. 20:29:12 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:29:27 -!- j-bot has joined. 20:36:09 -!- none30 has joined. 20:41:29 [[Powerlist]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80487&oldid=39461 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Truth machine */ Cat 20:45:34 -!- ArthurStrong has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:46:47 which ASCII characters have their bit pattern dictated by external concerns? there's NUL (usable to reserve space, can be punched to any character), DEL (any character can be punched to it), and SYN (distinct from any bitwise rotation of itself, usable to maintain framing on synchronous links) 20:46:52 any others? 20:49:56 I don't know; that is just what I have known of, what you mentioned too 20:59:57 kmc: well it's certainly convenient to have the digits 0123456789 encoded as consecutive bytes, makes it easier to parse or format numbers. the same is true for ABCDEF . 21:01:44 I'll also note that EBCDIC encoding letters in traditional alphabetic order was the one and only chance to get rid of the traditional phoenician-derived order of the letters in the alphabet and invent an entirely new order 21:02:22 but it might have been too late, by that time alphabetized dictionaries compiled by hand may have been too well spread for technology to be able to overthrow that order 21:03:34 I'm also hoping we could get rid of the traditional Hungarian alphabetization order that makes everyone's work harder in the uncommon cases 21:06:36 Nobody other than the very few people whose name starts with Cu or Cz or Zu would notice if we silently got rid of the rule that the nine special letters (sz, gy, ny, cs, zs, ly, ty, dzs, dz; but never ch or th or cz) and their doubled versions are sorted differently when they're used for the sound they usually denote than when they're accidents. 21:07:07 That's a rule that very hard to strictly follow by a computer, and it gains you nothing. 21:07:34 It's just the sort of nonsense that you teach to kids so they have to suffer just as you suffered in school 21:08:05 You should teach it only in high school as a curiosity in case they want to look up words in older dictionaries. 21:09:17 yeah 21:10:33 those sorts of rules are annoying for sure 21:10:41 I mean treating sz, gy, ny, cs in *Scrabble* kind of make sense, but not for alphabetization 21:11:03 but the Scrabble rules can be decided freely independent of the alphabetization 21:12:37 Spanish used to collate "ch" and "ll" separately from "c" and "l" but they got rid of that in 1994, though they were still considered distinct letters until 2010 (per wikipedia) 21:14:38 b_jonas: EBCDIC has the letters in traditional alphabetic order, but not contiguous 21:15:30 they're hex 81-89, 91-99, A2-A9 21:15:46 kmc: sure, but the not contiguous doesn't matter for alphabetization 21:15:48 I forgot why this is, but it probably relates to its history as an extension of BCD (numerals are F0-F9) 21:16:46 kmc: it relates to the Hollerith punch card encoding 21:17:23 and in ASCII they're 30-39 21:17:53 so that counts as an external concern: the low 4 bits of an ASCII numeral give you its binary/BCD representation 21:18:13 whereas just having them contiguous in an arbitary place wouldn't 21:18:18 Does the single bit uppercase/lowercase thing count as well? 21:18:49 are there any interesting relationships between ASCII and Baudot/ITA2? 21:23:12 also I learned (although I may have already learned, and forgotten) about the use of ASCII character ENQ 21:23:15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enquiry_character 21:23:57 when sent to a Telex machine it would automatically reply with an identification string encoded on a rotating drum 21:24:26 useful when leaving messages at an unattended machine. you could check that you reached the right recipient, and also check that the connection was not dropped by sending it again at the end 21:25:10 such a character also exists in ITA2, called WRU for "Who aRe yoU?" 21:30:44 "interesting relationships between ASCII and Baudot/ITA2" => I don't think so, apart from stuff that both ASCII and Baudot wants independently, like how space, which is one of the most common characters, has just one hole 21:32:24 I wonder if WRU is ever used in amateur RTTY 21:34:14 b_jonas: do you think there's a better ordering for the latin alphabet than the phoenecian-derived one? what would you prefer? 21:49:25 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:53:17 [[User:Not applicable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80488&oldid=80399 * Not applicable * (+791) almost there... 21:53:29 oh 21:53:47 lol 21:56:10 -!- ubq323 has joined. 22:07:50 -!- NotApplicable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:08:16 -!- NotApplicable has joined. 22:21:06 -!- NotApplicable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:22:27 -!- NotApplicable has joined. 22:41:45 kmc: I'm not sure. the difficulty is that the latin alphabet is used for a lot of very different languages and they use many letters in very different ways. 22:43:38 but you might want something with vowels first or last, consonants in two series that are voiced then unvoinced, pairs in the same order, something like AIUOEYBDGVZJMNLRPTKFSCH 22:45:48 ETAOIN SHRDLU 22:45:54 -!- Arcorann_ has joined. 22:46:20 also there's sort of a coordination problem, because you'd have to get all languages to use a similar order, just like how now basically all languages that use latin letters use the same order, except maybe for a few letters, and even all languages that use cyrillic scripts (sometimes very differently) use one consistent order, and that's not even considering greek/hebrew/arabic gemmatria 22:48:18 oh, and braille latin letters have a mnemonic that only works with the current alphabetic order: ABCDEFGHIJ is represented the same as 1234567890, add a lower dot and it's KLMNOPQRST, add two lower dots and it's UVXYZ 22:49:52 and the braille alphabet is quite old, it might actually have already been clearly established by the time the Hollerith and EBCDIC encodings were decided on 22:49:57 so it might have been too late because of that 22:50:06 I don't know the history of Braille, so I can't tell really 22:53:05 fizzie: that's the keyboard layout used for hot metal typesetting! 22:53:09 which I was also reading about last night 22:53:21 Many other things also work with the existing alphabetical order, including ASCII, punch cards, telephone numbers, etc. 22:53:27 (I went from video terminals -> teletypes -> punched tape -> hot metal typesetting, kind of a backwards in time thing) 22:55:20 it's evolving, but backwards 22:56:53 zzo38: yes, that's how this started. " I'll also note that EBCDIC encoding letters in traditional alphabetic order was the one and only chance to get rid of the traditional phoenician-derived order of the letters in the alphabet and invent an entirely new order" 22:59:16 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:03:26 Were alphabetic orders made up by numerology? I know there are many different kinds of alphabets with different orders, and at least some of them are based on numerology. 23:03:37 -!- NotApplicable has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:15:52 -!- tromp has joined. 23:29:02 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:34:02 zzo38: which ones are those? 23:34:57 I have a friend whose four year old son is really into different alphabets 23:35:05 I told her she should try to teach him Hangul 23:35:33 it's the best 23:37:24 I do not remember, but I think I read that somewhere.