< 1615249032 77105 :Guest56!~textual@138.199.52.66 QUIT :Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1615249773 661725 :Guest56!~textual@138.199.52.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615249894 460367 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615251224 494563 :really21!~justafrie@107.152.102.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615251328 603010 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615251406 623086 :Guest56!~textual@138.199.52.66 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1615251900 24909 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO zzo38 < 1615251911 292480 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, what question today? < 1615252002 331277 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice to see you around here, I didn't know you were on esoteric as well. I ocassionally read your posts on the Usenet. Is Sqlnetnews still being maintained? < 1615252069 84593 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.91 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1615252076 976091 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly I am working on a different project (Free Hero Mesh) at this time, although later I may work on sqlnetnews more. If you have any contributions or suggeations, then you may write where I may read them. < 1615252112 148688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Free Hero Mesh? < 1615252132 317439 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a puzzle game engine, for grid-based puzzle games such as sokoban and Hero Hearts. < 1615252160 726484 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds intresting - is it avaliable for download or something? < 1615252204 189448 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also meant to be compatible with puzzles from Everett Kaser's Hero Mesh (once they are converted), although it also has many new features too (including dynamic types, higher limits, etc). < 1615252227 535141 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest56_: There is a Fossil repository at: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/heromesh.ui < 1615252275 223156 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is in a state ready for testing, although it isn't close to complete yet. < 1615252353 542620 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1615252605 213960 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now, I am trying to figure out what is causing some levels of the FALLING puzzle set with the $SeekerCloser class to not work properly. < 1615252944 344437 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYI: I am maintaning my own logs of this channel, alongside the ones above < 1615252946 432579 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me if you have any comments, suggestions, bug reports, etc. < 1615253006 214025 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will check your think out zzo < 1615253008 520120 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1615255409 569383 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : > 1615255613 409506 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81236&oldid=81123 5* 03Trump Bot 5* (+790) 10 > 1615255641 981878 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Sertdfyguhi14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81237&oldid=79175 5* 03Sertdfyguhi 5* (+16) 10/* esolangs I made */ > 1615255690 718416 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Plts14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81238&oldid=79172 5* 03Sertdfyguhi 5* (-6) 10update github name > 1615255720 611163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Ewpl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81239&oldid=79181 5* 03Sertdfyguhi 5* (-6) 10update github name > 1615255746 956467 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Dotter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81240&oldid=79323 5* 03Sertdfyguhi 5* (-6) 10update github name > 1615255765 481801 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Sertdfyguhi14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81241&oldid=81237 5* 03Sertdfyguhi 5* (-6) 10update github name < 1615256409 65609 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRL pixel art language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kufic < 1615256816 574743 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615257654 441178 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615257900 909134 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615258019 94765 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1615258019 543158 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1615260967 6780 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1615261137 540863 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1615261160 363969 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1615261334 528750 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615261455 582206 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1615261829 66408 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262060 487913 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262100 379535 :scoofy_!~scoofy@catv-89-135-21-225.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262106 246966 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262139 290238 :^_!~v@anomalous.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262260 804688 :lifthrasiir_!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262305 778681 :Bowserinator_!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262364 925305 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262364 925368 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262365 67736 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262365 215969 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-21-225.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262365 322726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262365 681812 :V!~v@anomalous.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262365 837563 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262365 939781 :really21!~justafrie@107.152.102.135 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262366 49920 :mniip!~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262366 224997 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262366 536679 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1615262395 876892 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262486 911410 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262493 776751 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615262723 846863 :Bowserinator_!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator NICK :Bowserinator < 1615263095 623409 :really2!~justafrie@107.152.102.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615263336 586745 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Zzz < 1615265069 714512 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: ... < 1615266358 598805 :craigo__!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615266393 821150 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615266524 71962 :craigo_!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1615266662 778339 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1615266706 620867 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Wenyan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81242&oldid=81218 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy 5* (+96) 10 < 1615266978 679497 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615268612 882335 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615268630 508857 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1615268878 776569 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1615269043 883120 :scoofy_!~scoofy@catv-89-135-21-225.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1615270966 634405 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1615271108 851673 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615271858 883700 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615272128 740395 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1615272774 518562 :craigo__!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1615272952 179947 :Guest56_!~textual@107.152.102.135 QUIT :Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1615273207 785273 :really2!~justafrie@107.152.102.135 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1615273365 873187 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1615273701 601557 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615274032 685074 :craigo__!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric > 1615274518 383951 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:ColorfulGalaxy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81243&oldid=81200 5* 03Trump Bot 5* (+256) 10I sneezed by accident while posting and I can't delete it < 1615274520 374173 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one reminds me the game on ipad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNockPqPBg < 1615274562 687184 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were wires and signals going through them by similar rules < 1615275956 631312 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615277027 868482 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1615278206 543685 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615279158 550494 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1615279188 517582 :LKoen!~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1615279470 389584 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu NICK :int-e < 1615279531 819113 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and there is a mirror of the Fossil repository for Free Hero Mesh at http://chiselapp.com/user/zzo38/repository/freeheromesh in case you need it < 1615280609 875614 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cc -std=c11 temp.c < 1615280610 70608 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp.c:8:5: warning: implicit declaration of function 'timespec_get' is invalid in C99 < 1615280642 671370 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't cc agree to use the C11? it seems to understand the flag but the warning says... < 1615280984 373841 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1615281032 45660 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same error with the snippet from https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/chrono/timespec_get while there on page their snippet runner compiles it fine with clang c11 < 1615281095 68529 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1615281155 565515 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I press the "Share" button to get this link https://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/view?id=e84b765e6e9eb6d3and copy the command line from there I get the same error < 1615281168 485441 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's smth with my compiler but I didn't touch it... < 1615281259 641402 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have clang 5.0 while mine is Apple LLVM version 10.0.1 (clang-1001.0.46.4) though and I don't know a shit about how do they correlate < 1615283360 876054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADV_FREE is a kind of bizarre API. < 1615283382 706597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should probably be set up to that either reads or writes give you the page, not just writes. < 1615283410 97256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is you can have the odd behavior that you read a value from memory that's nominally available, and then you wait a while, and the value is different. < 1615283859 313352 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615287683 683207 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nakilon: The "implicit declaration -- invalid in C99" warning (in Clang) is badly worded, and really just means "invalid *since* C99". But I don't know the actual cause of your problem; with my Clang, -std=c11 successfully adds timespec_get to the declarations from , it just still gives the same warning for actually unknown names. < 1615291672 229943 :^_!~v@anomalous.eu NICK :V < 1615291855 328132 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1615291898 372165 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1615295516 2972 :jj97!6fdc8861@97.136.220.111.sta.wbroadband.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1615295607 952120 :jj97!6fdc8861@97.136.220.111.sta.wbroadband.net.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1615296088 70275 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.91 JOIN :#esoteric > 1615296280 469276 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81244&oldid=79641 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10Fix name > 1615296334 517197 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07PASM14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81245&oldid=81244 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Registers */ l->n < 1615297474 810177 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1615297582 516034 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/Bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric < 1615297730 395878 :LKoen!~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1615297917 540985 :arcsor5!~textual@107.152.102.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615299531 175136 :LKoen!~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1615302436 531370 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1615305334 680811 :djanatyn!~djanatyn@vps-7f49a6b0.vps.ovh.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1615305373 362890 :djanatyn!~djanatyn@vps-7f49a6b0.vps.ovh.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1615305711 174044 :craigo__!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1615305750 774970 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615305804 231136 :heavpoot!~heavpoot@82-132-219-49.dab.02.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1615310979 786066 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615313158 822640 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615313563 442068 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615314243 538446 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615314853 835187 :craigo!~craigo@144.136.206.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1615315083 884396 :oren!~oren@ec2-34-239-129-109.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between aleatoric and stochastic < 1615315346 715366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( aleatoric sounds more musical. also I had to look it up. ) < 1615316284 63704 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615316568 64434 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1615317253 865199 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1615317277 290993 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615317375 864016 :atslash!~atslash@46.188.0.82 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1615317495 470275 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1615317503 720272 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81246&oldid=81189 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* Reverse cat */ > 1615317556 366942 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81247&oldid=81246 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */ silly me. two-params are still confusing > 1615317628 560121 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81248&oldid=81247 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-49) 10/* FizzBuzz */ shorter one > 1615317665 958204 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81249&oldid=81248 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+0) 10/* FizzBuzz */ oops > 1615317683 409630 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81250&oldid=81249 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-187) 10/* FizzBuzz */ oops oops < 1615318353 648919 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1615319633 529018 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1615320342 525256 :arcsor5!~textual@107.152.102.135 QUIT :Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1615325079 165944 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Ping timeout: 615 seconds < 1615325134 130434 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1615327832 985433 :LKoen!~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1615327997 288303 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1615328199 539448 :ubq323!~ubq323@host86-155-175-238.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1615328661 862378 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81251&oldid=81236 5* 03Ais523 5* (-790) 10Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Trump Bot|Trump Bot]] ([[User talk:Trump Bot|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] > 1615328731 127112 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/block14]]4 block10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10blocked [[02User:Trump Bot10]] with an expiration time of 3 days (account creation disabled, email disabled): looks like this user is just here to troll / advertise other forums, not to post constructively; temporary block to give them a chance to cool down / improve, but I'm not hopeful < 1615329174 788368 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1615329534 447421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615329556 162806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: MADV_FREE is, in effect, basically "make it so that reading from any address in this range before it is next written is undefined behaviour" < 1615329569 108916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a useful thing to do to allow the kernel to optimise the use of the physical memory backing it) < 1615329589 162026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you can't have *actual* undefined behaviour at the user/kernel interface because that might lead to security bugs, so instead they document the possible behaviours < 1615329598 849944 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1615329624 91365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a particular claim someone made that they read a zero at the beginning of the page, wrote to the page, and then read a nonzero from the same place. < 1615329632 236416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a situation I'm skeptical about. < 1615329680 112657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a) the API definition should allow that as a possible sequence of events in theory, but b) there is no reason to implement the kernel in such a way that that sequence of events would happen in practice < 1615329699 3656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why not have it set up so that either a read or a write faults, and keeps the page as-is? < 1615329707 206558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the possible exception of kernel builds on which non-zeroed memory can be allocated < 1615329742 162139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: modifying page tables is expensive, even taking into account the length of time a system call takes < 1615329743 529353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell that should only affect people who read from "uninitialized" memory, making the system more predictable, at no particular cost to anyone else. < 1615329753 474083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't they modifying the page tables anyway? < 1615329755 625470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess they need to be modified regardless so that you can detect writes < 1615329758 713953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1615329814 759406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Linux has an API for allocating uninitialized memory, but it's normally ifdeffed out by default for security reasons, and is only really there for high-performance embedded systems which don't care about security between processes) < 1615329864 718220 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But I don't think that's the situation here. < 1615329910 519654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A person is saying, maybe this is a dirty page allocated by the same process, and therefore it doesn't contain zeros, but you can still get it without a security problem. < 1615329917 918725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think Linux does anything like that. < 1615329923 262109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1615329937 347338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than MADV_FREE, I mean, which only works this way if you keep the page in place. < 1615329977 121548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADV_FREE isn't an allocation API, it's a deallocation API < 1615330046 673626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can think of it either way. < 1615330074 37048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of an optimized version of mmapping a new anonymous page at the same address. < 1615330088 39406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1615330115 1683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite madvise option is MADV_HUGEPAGE which seems to actually have a noticeable performance impact in some programs < 1615330145 158532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1615330147 354650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet basically nothing uses it < 1615330162 183090 :arcsor5!~textual@107.152.102.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1615330164 32201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes vmsplice(2) noticeably faster, but nobody uses vmsplice either < 1615330171 383888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I really tried to use huge pages for performance, you had to use hugetlbfs, I think. < 1615330182 831408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as I remember it didn't make much of a difference. But maybe I wasn't careful enough. < 1615330209 121592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :vmsplice is only for pipes, right? < 1615330212 333928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1615330238 360117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge pages make pagewalks faster (most notably, recovering from a TLB flush, but some memory management operations make the kernel pagewalk) < 1615330259 625266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they force memory management operations to have a larger granularity, so when you're using them, you have to be very careful to avoid anything that might cause a page copy < 1615330265 678365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you lose all your performance advantage < 1615330311 232143 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1615330331 729194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something I've discovered recently is that the way to optimise I/O from the writer's point of view depends a lot on what is reading the data, and how it's being read < 1615330349 460541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, whether the data is going to be read out of your L1/L2/L3 cache or not < 1615330392 955286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't then it makes most sense to stream the data directly to the physical memory that's going to back the kernel's view of it (using mmap for files and vmsplice for pipes, plus nontemporal writes) < 1615330540 2531 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1615330749 51677 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.91 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1615330846 287627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but this was in a situation that should have benefited from huge pages (a database that managed its own cache). < 1615331032 113167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think the largest benefits would be for, e.g., the memory backing large linked lists < 1615331055 335472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically anything that makes a complete mockery of caches < 1615331085 195237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something is cache-efficient then there won't be a large gain for hugepages because the TLB would be generally working pretty quickly anyway, so there isn't much to optimise < 1615331091 159852 :Effilry!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1615331091 766976 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1615331106 526115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other than recovery from TLB flushes, which I think the kernel does a pretty good job of reducing the frequency of nowadays) < 1615332402 124223 :Effilry!znc@freenode/staff/firefly QUIT :Ping timeout: 619 seconds < 1615333110 989230 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly JOIN :#esoteric