00:06:11 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:24:37 -!- arcsor5 has joined. 00:25:52 i am back 00:26:26 i just got back too 00:26:39 did i miss anything 00:27:02 -!- tromp has joined. 00:31:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:46 -!- NotApplicable has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:14:12 -!- tromp has joined. 01:17:37 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:18:30 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:20:17 -!- tromp has joined. 01:22:31 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:30 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:37 -!- tromp has joined. 01:30:09 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:36:30 [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81718&oldid=81711 * EnilKoder * (+225) added comment for unimplemented ideas 01:57:35 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * New user account 01:58:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ 01:58:16 oops wrong place 01:58:20 nvm 02:02:02 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81719&oldid=81671 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+254) 02:02:21 -!- delta23 has quit (Quit: zzzzz). 02:08:28 [[User:ColorfulGalaxy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81720&oldid=81467 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+91) Fixed a broken link in the "Contact him" section 02:19:57 -!- tromp has joined. 02:26:26 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:33:22 -!- tromp has joined. 02:37:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:50:55 [[NoComment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81721&oldid=79111 * CaptainFoxtrot * (+97) 02:51:13 [[NoComment]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81722&oldid=81721 * CaptainFoxtrot * (+0) 03:11:02 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81723&oldid=81717 * Grom * (+195) 03:11:23 [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81724&oldid=81723 * Grom * (+1) 03:14:17 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81725&oldid=81724 * Grom * (+1) /* Properties of the Master Function */ 03:27:27 -!- tromp has joined. 03:31:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:39:22 -!- tromp has joined. 03:42:19 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81726&oldid=81725 * Grom * (+108) 03:44:12 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:44:12 -!- arcsor5 has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:51:08 -!- tromp has joined. 03:56:18 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:15:13 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81727&oldid=81726 * Grom * (+378) 04:45:38 -!- tromp has joined. 04:50:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:24:35 -!- tromp has joined. 05:26:36 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:26:36 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:28:07 -!- tromp has joined. 05:28:10 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:29:08 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:31:02 -!- tromp has joined. 05:33:49 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:34:34 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:39:11 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:06:09 -!- tromp has joined. 06:10:20 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:17:32 -!- tromp has joined. 06:22:15 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:36:37 -!- tromp has joined. 06:43:44 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:14:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 07:46:37 annual 1 April AM contest starts in 6 hours https://codeforces.com/contests/1505 07:47:07 I'm lazy to participate there but it's usually in esoteric languages so you might be interested 07:47:32 *ACM 07:59:47 -!- s0kx has joined. 08:06:52 -!- LKoen has joined. 08:06:58 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 08:09:33 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:40:49 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:41:51 -!- arseniiv has joined. 10:47:47 -!- NeverBorn has joined. 10:54:02 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:07:11 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:12:45 and SIGBOVIK 2021 conference starts in less than a day, with online video stream: http://sigbovik.org/2021/ 11:21:50 Thanks, I would have missed it. It might not even be a ridiculous time to catch live. 12:39:59 it's early in the morning I think... let me check 12:41:16 ah no, it says "Starting at 6pm EDT on April 1, 2021", that's 2021-04-01 22:00Z 12:41:32 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:41:35 I thought it said "6pm PDT" for some reason 12:46:12 oh, new SIGBOVIK! As if the previous was yesterday, time flies like an arrow 12:46:33 damn covid 12:47:28 oh, 22:00Z is pretty late for me to watch videos 12:48:08 though anyway I mostly read the paper sum 12:50:20 `thank b_jonas 12:50:22 thank? No such file or directory 12:50:33 `thanks b_jonas 12:50:34 Thanks, b_jonas. Thonas. 12:50:49 never gets old 12:57:35 you can watch the video on the next day 13:53:49 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81728&oldid=81727 * Grom * (+129) 13:54:38 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81729&oldid=81728 * Grom * (-8) /* Evidence of viability */ 14:00:27 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81730&oldid=81729 * Grom * (+9) /* Evidence of viability */ 14:05:46 [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81731&oldid=81730 * Grom * (+2) /* Formal Definition of and */ 14:05:57 [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81732&oldid=81731 * Grom * (-1) /* Formal Definition of and */ 14:08:22 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81733&oldid=81732 * Grom * (+22) /* Formal Definition of and */ 14:11:32 finally Ruby code goes vertical like Befunge: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/17768 14:14:03 tbh i like the basic idea 14:14:36 like, maybe not that exact syntax, but that would make mass assigns and similar more readable 14:16:15 fungot: when will this tiresome day be over? 14:16:15 int-e: " erik. on c, for example, it's true that in scheme 14:16:51 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81734&oldid=81733 * Grom * (+202) /* Formal Definition of and */ 14:23:51 I should make that filter more permissive. 14:24:19 Nothing wrong with /* Formal Definition of 𝕄 and 𝔾 */ at least for this channel, we're very UTF-8 friendly. 14:30:17 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81735&oldid=81734 * Grom * (+174) 14:30:29 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81736&oldid=81735 * Grom * (+1) /* Evidence of viability */ 14:38:29 -!- mniip has quit (Ping timeout: 608 seconds). 14:42:01 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:53:30 -!- drunken_lizard has joined. 14:54:54 Anyone have general advice for writing a Rockstar program that prints a specific message? In a totally mad and convoluted way, ofc 15:10:22 -!- LKoen has joined. 15:18:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:18:52 -!- NeverBorn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:29:59 -!- sprock has joined. 15:31:03 -!- delta23 has joined. 16:02:41 nakilon: :D 16:03:38 -!- arcsor5 has joined. 16:48:02 -!- delta23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:49:54 [[No Literals, Gotos Only, Final Destination!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81737&oldid=60888 * Something Fawful * (+37) /* Official Implementation */ added... finally (took me long enough) 16:51:13 -!- arcsor5 has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:51:42 [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81738&oldid=81661 * Digital Hunter * (+232) /* ROT13 cipher */ 17:02:44 -!- Hooloovo0 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:06:33 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:07:02 -!- hendursa1 has joined. 17:14:36 -!- Hooloovo0 has joined. 17:20:27 -!- drunken_lizard has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:32:14 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81739&oldid=81736 * Grom * (+179) /* Evidence of viability */ 17:33:51 [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81740&oldid=81739 * Grom * (+0) /* Evidence of viability */ 17:34:23 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81741&oldid=81740 * Grom * (-70) /* Evidence of viability */ 17:34:31 [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81742&oldid=81741 * Grom * (-1) /* Evidence of viability */ 17:36:29 [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81743&oldid=81738 * Digital Hunter * (+66) /* Commands and keywords */ important clarification to "succeed" 17:52:45 [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81744&oldid=81742 * Grom * (+185) /* Evidence of viability */ 17:58:38 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:58:58 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:03:26 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 18:03:34 -!- moony has joined. 18:09:11 -!- grumble has quit (Killed (Fuchs (♥ you))). 18:09:50 -!- grumble has joined. 18:14:53 -!- delta23 has joined. 18:16:13 [[Intramodular Transaction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81745&oldid=74674 * Hakerh400 * (+601) Add TIO links 18:25:38 amazing how hard it is to find any decent public chat logs in Russian 18:26:23 for neural stuff? 18:26:30 for learning stuff, ye 18:26:44 had to parse some buggy php forum with some chat and chat-archive plugins 18:27:11 broken bb codes, broken closing html tags, etc. -- got 73k pairs of message in the end 18:27:26 oh 18:29:15 broken tags: https://i.imgur.com/gl4bWhf.png broken bb: https://i.imgur.com/WtX7OHN.png 18:30:00 actually I have some megabytes of IRC logs somewhere on backup HDD, but I thought it would be easier to get some from the internet than to find those 18:30:10 not sure in my decision 18:30:59 I think I’m lacking in English words to console or sympathize 18:31:33 yeah something it’s way quicker to search something out there than in a mess of a file system you created :D 18:33:50 and all it to make another talking bot for my empty channel 18:35:28 I made a KiwiIRC webpage that people can open it in a browser to leave me a message but from what they write it appeared that they are stupid enough to think that when they join my chat I have to respond to them immediately 18:36:32 like I'm 24/7 support manager 18:36:43 so I'll make the bot to autorespond ..D 18:37:01 oh 18:37:30 also a few megabytes is probably not enough 18:37:50 but good luck analyzing IRC logs, they're terrible and often full of spam and hard to understand jargon 18:37:58 megabytes were good; 73k is probably not enough 18:38:07 nakilon: wait, do you like Q&A for them or what? Or they just say hi and expect you to hi back immediately? :o 18:38:37 arseniiv some mix of predefined QA and generated responses I guess 18:40:07 b_jonas the hard thing is grammar errors people do ( 18:40:24 I’m too sad this ##math isn’t so esoteric, a couple of times I joined there it wasn’t very good for my questions, IIRC 18:40:33 s/this/that 18:40:57 IIRC it wasn't helpful for me either 18:41:27 not that I can speak their language 18:41:33 nakilon: that's what you get anywhere if you want instant low latency chat with people rather than carefully composed long form replies with hours of latency between users on a web forum. IRC just made sure we have that in writing, not just spoken in person and on telephone 18:41:40 I wanted to ask something about rotating bunches of vectors here but remembered about ##math and now I’m mixed 18:42:12 arseniiv: you can't easily make a good forum whose topic is just "math", because by default it gets flooded by boring math homework questions 18:42:21 arseniiv: you can ask here about rotating bunches of vectors though 18:42:34 b_jonas for some reason average Russian chat text has 5-10 times more errors in the words that average English chat text 18:42:48 chats are awesome, though one-line chats are a bit Procrustean 18:43:07 but the sentences are incorrect more often because of non-native speakers 18:43:16 *more often in English 18:43:19 b_jonas: I know! I’m just have issues with myself spamming esoteric questions in #esoteric 18:44:08 one-line chat logs are easier to parse ..D 18:45:04 also private messaging logs are easier to build message pairs but they aren't shared publicly 18:46:14 nakilon: did you really sample all the average English text chat and the average Russian text chat? there's so much of it, at least for English, most in places that I avoid, that I have no idea what the average is like 18:46:33 now I wonder about Hungarian, Finnish and some other chats (do I have a poor memory on who is a native speaker of what) 18:46:51 b_jonas I can judge by current dialog and reddit that I read every day 18:47:06 I don't know, I do very little chat in Hungarian. about one small community these days, plus some chat for dayjob 18:47:12 average Russian chats have mistakes in every 10th word 18:47:15 nakilon: ah yes. I rarely watch reddit 18:47:27 Russian would write "vord" instead of "word" by 10% chance 18:47:34 nakilon: do you have any guess why it has more mistakes? 18:47:55 isn't it just that you select for the English chats that have less mistakes, but there are fewer choices for Russian chat? 18:48:22 nakilon: reminded me how I misspelled “wave” as “vawe” many times 18:48:26 I mean there's definitely a large spectrum for English too 18:48:29 I guess something about how the pronounciation and spelling correspond to each other 18:48:41 -!- delta23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:44 but not sure 18:49:07 I often see users on English and French chat that seem to type old style SMS speech that I find hard to read 18:49:27 with abbreviations that are often cryptic to me 18:49:45 b_jonas I read not only IT subreddits, a lot is about games 18:52:05 also ~10% of native Russian speakers are Ukrainian citizens and it hurts to read them today after years of ukrainization and prohibition to learn and sometimes even speak Russian 18:53:08 so? English chat has a lot of non-native speakers too, with often questionable command of English 18:53:26 it's often obvious that someone is from Ukraine and has never had even a single lesson of Russian and in result they don't know neither of two languages because they are forced to speak one language in school but use another one at home 18:53:55 sure, that happens in many places 18:55:28 and yes, sometimes you can guess what native language someone speaks. it's easier in spoken text, but still often possible in written 18:56:20 I used to watch a game stream by someone speaking English with the second most egregious Hungarian accent that I've heard from people who regularly speak English 18:56:34 the stream is still there, I'm just less interested 18:57:15 no one recognizes I'm Ukrainian though 18:58:45 you could even recognize Belorussian by a surname but Ukrainian and Russian surnames are more mixed 18:59:27 sure, some people speak English so well that it's harder to tell 19:02:10 there are basically only two clues: 1) how I pronounce "шо" instead of "что" ("what") -- this is how you speak Russian in Eastern Ukraine, and 2) how I pronounce the sound "г" ("gh") that is so subtle that no one spots it unless tries to 19:02:35 ah btw the question is interesting, though not mine. We have an euclidean space, say of dimension 3 (the original question is just about 3) and vectors v1, …, vN and w1, …, wN; 19:02:35 we are interested in value of (v1 ⋅ R(w1)) … (vN ⋅ R(wN)) for an average rotation R, i. e. we want to integrate dμ(R) with respect to a Haar measure μ on SO(3) which is 1 on all of SO(3); 19:02:35 I’ve written various expressions involving 3D vector operations or quaternions (IIRC Haar measure on SO(3) corresponds to an usual euclidean-induced measure on S⁴, the sphere of unit quaternions, 19:02:35 which cover SO(3) doubly but that’s of no pain for this integration) but no use, the integral for even N = 1 looks unapproachable; 19:02:35 for N = 1 it should be 0 (pretty obvious), for N = 2 the asker gives an empirical result (v1 ⋅ v2) (w1 ⋅ w2), and for N = 3 they claim (v1 ⋅ (v2 × v3)) (w1 ⋅ (w2 × w3)); 19:02:35 ⋅ is the inner product and × is a cross product; and I think we can slap a fixed orientation to the euclidean space for less worrying, as we use only SO, not O 19:03:17 nakilon: can your timezone be a clue too? 19:03:26 also when I speak to another Ukrainian (and we have some uplifted mood, maybe after a beer) we both start speaking with much more Ukrainian accent 19:04:17 b_jonas only one timezone in Ukraine ..D but you can timezone Russian citizen by his vocabulary similar to how you can differ far parts of US 19:04:58 nakilon: exactly, but I mean your timezone might be a clue how someone tells that you're Ukranian 19:05:13 though while US pronounciation may differ from state to state it's much less different between parts of Russia even though it's bigger, idk why 19:06:39 nakilon: dunno, that should depend on television and radio, but I don't know much about the history 19:07:06 maybe US was more influence by immigration? 19:07:14 *influenced 19:12:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:12:45 "21:47:34 nakilon: do you have any guess why it has more mistakes?" -- oh, maybe because mistakes aren't in roots actually but in suffixes -- you use them in Russian to change the meaning of the word while in English you rather change the order of words 19:13:07 s/actually/usually 19:17:11 for example, "server / on the server" is "сервер / на серверЕ"; my CTO always wrote "на серверИ" -- that was awful 19:23:57 серверИ doesn't seem to be a valid form according to wiktionary 19:24:44 сервери is awful I agree 19:24:58 yep, absolutely invalid word, and it's a pretty common mistake to write И instead of Е in the end 19:25:10 that’s even more eye-straining than “у бабушке” 19:25:54 к бабушки 19:27:42 I’m glad I almost never see that 19:28:03 basically when someone can't learn own language he can't learn English and I believe if you can't English you very likely can't program 19:28:23 good that CTO don't code 19:28:38 at least because good docs are in English yep 19:29:48 my first major dive in English was because of Delphi 7 docs :D though that one was very shallow. Several years latter I started reading webfiction 19:31:37 yeah, those F1 Windows API and stdlib docs -- you was either learning from them or from nowhere 19:35:23 in ~1990 there were Russian books for Spectrum / BASIC, not much computer science in them but a decent start, and then the world has changed somehow; maybe because of Internet, idk 19:36:53 of course it's my point of view that is attached to my age 19:45:17 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 19:46:35 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:48:21 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 19:49:28 I think good physical books on programming and CS were pretty rare; I haven’t had one ever. Had plenty of somethings quickly becoming outdated and having not too much info, like a book on JS or a book about some interesting algorithms and data structures with Delphi code, but I wasn’t tempted to type all that code, and I think I had no internet these days so I couldn’t just download it. Ugh. So the book mostly sat on the shelf. Oh 19:49:28 I was glad I now understood regexes were compilable into graphs nice to use, but anyway the presentation wasn’t the best (it always finished with a page or several of plain code), nor was the breadth, though what do I want from ~300 pages 19:52:02 one needs thousands of pages and tinkering with hundreds of examples of various style to gain a versatile enough understanding, shame paper books aren’t good with this these times. A couple of topics, surely — but at least a decent slice of a discipline? noo 19:53:04 -!- mniip has joined. 19:54:18 you can have a reference for a small language like Lua, and its compact standard library, but you won’t learn how to use a programming language as an instrument decently, only knowing its reference, unfortunately. You can have an elementary group theory, but no more. Something is not right in the universe :D 19:56:30 though it’s well-known since long ago that human learning is pretty inefficient, of course, why do I reiterate that 20:13:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:24:49 -!- delta23 has joined. 20:48:52 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:19:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Hmmm). 21:21:58 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:25:45 -!- moony has joined. 22:00:22 -!- ubq323 has joined. 22:05:30 It's SIGBOVIK time, I guess. I see they've made the proceedings available already. 22:40:36 oh drat, I missed some of it 22:40:51 is there a schedule? 22:40:57 to see what talks I missed 22:42:23 Well, there is the report, you could still read that 22:46:33 I didn't see a schedule of talks, but there was a keynote from tom7 on the paper Lowestcase and Uppestcase letters: Advances in Derp Learning, and then regular talks for: Stone Tools as Palaeolithic Central Unit Processors, and Macro-driven metalanguage for writing Pyramid Scheme programs, in addition to this ongoing bird thing. 22:46:59 They said for fairness the keynote was selected randomly just now, so I guess they couldn't have put it in a schedule ahead of time. 22:47:18 I do like this model where the answers to the Q&A questions are prerecorded. 23:02:34 Oh no, I don't have an SSTV decoder at all. 23:10:28 fizzie: yes, and he promises a longer video version of his talk too 23:10:37 a director's cut or something 23:10:47 which I assume will be on his youtube channel after the conference 23:11:50 he also said that I got him to play shapez.io, and that took up much of his time before the conference, and I'm not sure if I should consider that a success or a failure because it means worse sigbovik talk, 23:12:37 but I recommended that game two months ago, so how was I to know he'd start playing it shortly before the conference deadline. should I have warned him that it will hook him for weeks? 23:12:49 I mean he's an adult, he can waste his time on his own 23:14:25 * nakilon has wasted last hours to deploy his first Ruby code onto Google Cloud Functions as a backend for the future chat bot 23:16:22 There were some references in the keynote video about it being ruined (or some other adjective) by the SIGBOVIK organizing committee. 23:22:15 This was nice. I don't know if all the papers and/or presentations were that great, but I'd kind of been missing the conference atmosphere. 23:25:21 ok, the conference ended, so I'll rewind and watch the talks at the start, including tom7's 23:25:33 though I think I'll want to see the full version and read the proceedings too 23:39:09 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:41:21 -!- delta23 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:42:55 -!- delta23 has joined. 23:44:26 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:50:12 fizzie: full version of tom7's talk is out at https://www.twitch.tv/videos/971776826