00:09:48 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar Explanation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81870 * Icecream17 * (+3999) took too long to make
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00:39:09 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81871&oldid=81858 * Icecream17 * (+26) skipsteps option
00:41:49 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81872&oldid=81871 * Icecream17 * (+64) description
00:42:32 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Algorithm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81873&oldid=81872 * Icecream17 * (-3) formatting
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02:11:18 <zzo38> Will they add a "tail-only" calling convention into LLVM?
02:27:43 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Grammar Explanation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81874&oldid=81870 * Icecream17 * (+1103) more explanation
02:37:52 <zzo38> (There is a tail calling convention, but not a tail only calling convention, it look like)
03:21:37 <esowiki> [[Semeler]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81875 * Icecream17 * (+3402) draft
03:25:19 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable/doc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81876 * Icecream17 * (+1923) documentation
03:35:26 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/documentation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81877 * Icecream17 * (+546) create documentation template
03:36:23 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81878&oldid=81859 * Icecream17 * (+329) add documentation
03:40:35 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/Variable/doc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81879&oldid=81876 * Icecream17 * (+546) addd nothing
03:44:46 <esowiki> [[User:Icecream17/documentation/doc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81880 * Icecream17 * (+313) documentation documentation
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08:10:42 <esowiki> [[D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81881&oldid=81466 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+433) Added Project Euler Problem 1 code based on Fizzbuzz
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09:45:14 <b_jonas> "do you guys have wall clocks" => no, I hate those. my relatives have wall clocks, and they show the wrong time all the time. what's even the point of having a clock if you don't set it to the correct time? and many of them emit a loud clicking noise every second, and are analog with two or three dials that makes it hard to read.
09:46:22 <myname> on that topic, i hate people who have clocks set to the wrong time intentionally because they just aren't able to leave the house 5 minutes earlier
09:46:32 <b_jonas> I have a cheap battery-powered digital LCD clock that's usually at my desk next to a digital thermometer, but sometimes I carry it to the kitchen to use as a kitchen timer, plus the digital LED clock built into the oven, plus my mobile phone and the desktop computer as clocks. all these I do set to the correct time.
09:46:41 <b_jonas> no analog clocks and nothing that gives clicky noises.
09:52:50 <b_jonas> myname: my relatives don't do that, but they bought this stupid radio clock that supposedly sets itself to the correct time automatically, but then it went wrong (a dial miscalibrated itself) so now it consistently sets itself to the wrong time (you know what Douglas Adams says about things that can't break) yet they still keep it on the wall. at least that only annoys me when I am at their home,
09:53:21 <b_jonas> unlike when they refused to throw away the electric kettle whose mechanism to stop heating when the water boils went wrong and so never turned off.
09:54:15 <b_jonas> plus they never set the clock in the car, so that shows the wrong time too
09:54:43 <myname> i know people that liked the idea of one clock of the discworld universe so much, they built something similar. it ticks irregularly, but still shows (roughly) the correct time
09:55:17 <b_jonas> myname: I think that's the Dune universe, not the Discworld universe. it's for not attracting sandworms.
09:56:13 <myname> https://roryokane.github.io/vetinari-clock-simulator/
10:01:05 <b_jonas> I guess I should be glad the car is not one of those from a few decades ahead in the US, the ones that are controlled by a computer connected to the internet so anyone can remotely make your car misbehave
10:02:30 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SCKelemen * uploaded "[[File:Records-hasse.png]]"
10:08:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SCKelemen * uploaded "[[File:Types-hasse.png]]"
10:13:38 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SCKelemen * uploaded "[[File:Record-union-hasse.png]]"
10:13:46 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81885&oldid=81810 * SCKelemen * (+622)
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12:31:11 <esowiki> [[Nomad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81886&oldid=81885 * SCKelemen * (+60) Add appropriate categories
12:33:07 <nakilon> gave one guy a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8igrh1eyLk
12:33:36 <nakilon> he says "what do the say? I can't English"
12:33:46 <nakilon> I say "don't you remember the movie plot?"
12:34:10 <nakilon> he really thinks it's some Jimm Carrey movie that he hasn't seen
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12:48:23 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81887&oldid=81647 * Heavpoot * (+17) fix minor typo
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13:02:50 <esowiki> [[41943040000000000000000000000]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81888 * Heavpoot * (+190) Created page with "[[41943040000000000000000000000]] will be an [[esolang]] and will be made during 2022 indisputably. 41943040000000000000000000000 is (to be) a [[Macron|very real esolang]]. ..."
13:03:06 <esowiki> [[Category:2022]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81889 * Heavpoot * (+11) Created page with "{{Yearcat}}"
13:05:30 <fizzie> Doubling down on it, I see.
13:07:33 <fizzie> I don't know what (if anything) we should do about that.
13:07:55 <esowiki> [[User:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81890&oldid=81229 * Heavpoot * (+11)
13:11:17 <fizzie> (The so-called "fix minor typo" edit is again adding that nonsense 2026 category that was reverted three times.)
13:19:05 <esowiki> [[TwoFiftyFive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81891&oldid=73252 * Heavpoot * (+32)
13:21:59 <nakilon> he's already in Category:Years, lol
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13:33:49 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81892&oldid=81887 * Int-e * (-17) Fix minor typo. Isn't this fun?
13:34:56 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81893&oldid=81892 * Heavpoot * (+17) oops, you accidentally hit "backspace" instead of "ctrl+c ctrl+v ctrl+v (select previous 2 words) ctrl+c ctrl+v ctrl+v". but don't worry, i'll fix it partially for you!
13:37:23 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81894&oldid=81893 * Int-e * (+0) Did you know that 2021 = 43*47? Seriously though, please stop this nonsense.
13:42:35 <esowiki> [[Talk:Macron]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81895&oldid=81605 * Heavpoot * (+282)
13:43:18 <int-e> I'm happy that the problem has been identified so clearly.
13:44:41 <int-e> I guess that explains that name, at least.
13:45:37 <nakilon> that's the only explain thing I see here so far
13:47:34 <esowiki> [[Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81896&oldid=81894 * Heavpoot * (+0) fine. updated to reflect actual date of creation. "2021" is not substantially substantiated by substantial evidence.
13:48:53 <esowiki> [[Talk:Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81897&oldid=81895 * Fizzie * (+475) /* 2026 denial propaganda */ ...
13:51:10 <esowiki> [[Talk:Macron]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81898&oldid=81897 * Heavpoot * (+16)
13:52:18 <esowiki> [[Suptiftam]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81899 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+7075) Create page
13:53:06 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81900&oldid=81839 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+16) /* S */ +[[Suptiftam]]
13:54:17 <nakilon> A Grasp program consists of a set of nodes.
13:54:19 <int-e> (Though I guess I don't mind it joining the 2007 crowd. It's far less obstrusive than making a language appear in its own bogus category.)
13:54:29 <nakilon> lol, I read as "consists of a set of nudes."
13:57:22 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81901&oldid=81235 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) /* Languages */ +[[Suptiftam]]
13:59:57 <esowiki> [[User talk:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81902&oldid=81555 * Heavpoot * (+5552) [[User:Truttle1|Truttle1]] ([[User talk:Truttle1|talk]])
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14:07:22 <int-e> Ah, "obtrusive"... I finally realized why that word looked so wrong.
14:08:24 <int-e> I mixed in a bit of "obstructive", maybe I can pretent it was a portmanteau...
14:08:41 <int-e> But given the number of other typos I'm making these days...
14:09:49 <nakilon> I believe is there was a " TwilightSparkle" user it's Heavypot
14:10:26 <nakilon> see Sept 7 2020 message here https://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:SunnyMoon
14:11:21 <nakilon> and the " 09:54, 21 July 2020 (UTC)" on the Introduce yourself
14:18:49 <esowiki> [[User talk:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81903&oldid=81902 * Heavpoot * (-28169) __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ <div style="max-width: 60.5em; padding: 1.25em; padding-bottom: 0; float: left"> <h1 style="font-size: 1.75em; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0.714em; padding: 0; border-bottom: 0; overflow: visible">Welcome to '''Esolang''', the [[esoteric
14:27:57 <esowiki> [[User:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81904&oldid=81890 * Heavpoot * (+197)
14:32:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:Zirconium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81905&oldid=81706 * RocketRace * (+166)
14:34:55 <esowiki> [[Zirconium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81906&oldid=77797 * RocketRace * (-62) Fix the incorrect 0@0 code pattern
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14:42:47 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81907&oldid=81847 * RocketRace * (-66) remove deadname
14:44:07 <esowiki> [[Suptiftam]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81908&oldid=81899 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) /* Cat program */ Fix
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15:21:48 <esowiki> [[Excela]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81909&oldid=61935 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+85) /* External resources */ Add link
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16:05:43 <b_jonas> nakilon: we live in the 21st century among cheap consumer goods. it's cheaper to buy a new kettle than to try to fix a security bug in one. but sure, if my father intended to fix it, that would have been fine. but they didn't.
16:12:55 <nakilon> that's the consumerism lvl 80
16:13:32 <nakilon> moving some metal thing that got shifted inside the kettle because of some vibration does not cost more than buy a new one
16:15:03 <nakilon> multibillionairs are just allowing you to temporary posess some extra money to spend them so irrationally to make an illusion that they made the money in a rational and fair way
16:15:03 <b_jonas> nakilon: metal? only the heating element is metal. most of it is plastic.
16:15:17 <b_jonas> oh, you mean the tiny electronics thing?
16:15:24 <b_jonas> yes, that might be metal, but just barely
16:16:00 <b_jonas> and yes, it's consumerism. if you want tea cheaply, go and keep cleaning your municipal gas oven.
16:16:15 <nakilon> there is some stuff in there with different temperature expansion coefficients that when it gets hot the metal contact is making a contact
16:16:55 <b_jonas> that's the way these cheap electric kettles usually die. mine lasted for five years. it's a bit sad, I wish they died the opposite way, with the heat sensor shutting it down instead of keeping it on, but it's the second one that did this so it looks likea trend.
16:17:32 <nakilon> I saw on youtube how some american sold his lawn mower just because it ran out of fuel
16:17:43 <b_jonas> different temperature expansion coefficients? possible, but I think they only do that in gas heaters that must work safely without electricity. I think the electronic ones just use a resistive temperature element and a relay
16:17:57 <nakilon> dude bought it for $20 or something, filled it with a fuel and sold for $100
16:18:26 <b_jonas> oh come on, if you want to find extreme examples of stupidity, you can always look on the internet. that doesn't mean that the typical person is that stupid
16:18:38 <nakilon> because consumerism made that guy so stupid he can't refule his lawn mower and assumes "it's broken, meh, I'll buy a new one"
16:19:10 <b_jonas> but I'm not an electrician, I'm not going to repair an unsafe high voltage appliance and possibly shock myself or make it even more unsafe, when it's a just cheap kettle that served for five years.
16:19:34 <nakilon> I'm not saying every person should fix thing himself
16:20:01 <b_jonas> my father might be qualified, but I don't think even he would want to touch these, because these aren't consumer-repairable, the plastic can't be safely opened and closed.
16:20:07 <nakilon> I would give it my friend electrician and he would fix it for a cup of tea
16:21:16 <b_jonas> I do exactly one sort of self-repair on these: clean the hard water chalk from it, from the main body with citric acid (vinegar works too but I dislike it), and from the filter by mechanical means
16:21:22 <nakilon> my plastic electric teapot has 10 screw on the bottom, just checked
16:21:54 <b_jonas> aren't those screws for replacing the cable to the mains electricity?
16:22:00 <b_jonas> that might be something you can do at home
16:22:19 <b_jonas> or can you fix the temperature shutdown with those too?
16:22:24 <nakilon> I make tea out of Bonaqua water that is the only here available that's isn't hard enough so the chalk^W salt does not appear in it at all
16:23:04 <b_jonas> I did have the broken thermal element fixed in the gas convector heater, because that one costs much more than an electric kettle and would be much more of a hassle to replace, while repairing it isn't too bad
16:23:29 <nakilon> the only thing that can't be disassempled are stupid apple devices, lol
16:23:47 <b_jonas> of course, everything can be disassembled. the hard part is assembling it afterwards.
16:24:21 <b_jonas> and in this case it's a high voltage appliance that you use in the kitchen with water, so you have to be careful, you can cause more damage if you assemble it wrong
16:25:09 <b_jonas> (the gas heater is even worse, that one I'm officially not even allowed to touch unless I'm formally qualified; for the kettle you only have to be practically qualified)
16:25:53 <nakilon> there should be qualifications to touch the code
16:27:35 <nakilon> yep, legal prohibition of your employees to touch specific parts of it
16:28:04 <b_jonas> no, anyone can touch software, the dayjob company just might not accept contributions from anyone, or not give the sourcecode to anyone, but it requires no formal qualification, just normal judgement of who we employ and how much we trust our employees
16:28:39 <nakilon> by touching I mean applying the edits
16:28:45 <b_jonas> formal qualification is required for doctors, lawyers, and gas repairmen. that's about it.
16:29:06 <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, anyone can do that to their own computer. even if they do stupid things like add security bugs. and I will stand up for their rights to do that.
16:29:11 <b_jonas> that doesn't mean I'll run their code.
16:29:32 <b_jonas> or use electric kettles that they have repaired
16:29:39 <nakilon> for example, a HTTL/CSS guy touched PHP server configs and has exposed the access tokens of thousands of users to everyone -- he should pay for this
16:31:33 <nakilon> it's the same if he went to the office kitchen and got into the teapot and made it risky to use since then
16:31:36 <b_jonas> no, we employers are protected about this, the employer usually can't punish us for mere incompetence, and can't make us pay damages for them. they also need not allow us to modify code on their servers of course.
16:33:03 <b_jonas> we also wouldn't allow most employees to repair the electric kettle
16:33:09 <nakilon> an average HTML/CSS is always a friend of CTO and/or CEO and so is allowed to touch any piece of code and launch any programs
16:33:29 <nakilon> yeah yeah they say the same
16:33:30 <b_jonas> nakilon: no, because our CEOs aren't *stupid*
16:33:57 <b_jonas> no, I know the CEOs in person. this is a small company
16:34:05 <nakilon> this is why laws were invented thousands of years ago
16:34:12 <nakilon> because the "we aren't stupid" is a lie
16:35:29 <nakilon> IT is just mature enough for people to realise they should make laws that if you touch the code you don't have to touch you must pay and not blame someone in that he allowed you to do it -- that's a separate fault
16:36:37 <b_jonas> ok, I'll stop because this won't be a productive conversation
16:39:01 <nakilon> I worked in companies of sizes 8, 12, 20, 100, 2000, 5000, 30000 -- adequate CEOs were only in 100 and 5000, adequate CTOs only in 20 and 5000
16:39:50 <nakilon> don't believe in myths, the software industry is crap, it has no regulations and no mandatory qualification checks
16:55:47 <arseniiv> finally a 90s radio with the rest of the music I vaguely remember from the dark days my consciousness was forming. You wouldn’t believe how hard a coupon collector’s problem it is to tie all the ends, though all of them is not a priority — simply just when I hear something I think I heard earlier I’m a little happier and a little more surprised: “still haven’t been found earlier?!” Though there are real mysteries out there
16:55:48 <arseniiv> which are probably from 00s, like some Japanese-sounding thing with weird harmony, but slow (so probably no J-pop? 120bpm but slow in the way melodic phrases were built) and I hadn’t presence of mind to record that excerpt. A car driven away from my window, forever. *That one* is real rosebud, and probably I won’t hear that song again ever
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17:38:55 <zzo38> {?} Instant ;; Target permanent gains protection from everything until end of turn. ;; Cycling {2}
17:39:26 <zzo38> Shadowmonger {3B} Creature - Shade Monger (2/3) ;; {2}: Target creature gains shadow until end of turn. Any player can use this ability.
17:47:35 <zzo38> These are Magic: the Gathering
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17:50:03 <nakilon> oh I thought it's ur esoteric lang
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18:28:20 <nakilon> arseniiv 21:27:22 -NickServ- EMAILMEMOS Forwards incoming memos to your e-mail address.
18:28:36 <nakilon> nickserv can email you memos
18:29:51 <arseniiv> (though I rarely check mail so that would be currently of little use to me)
18:36:03 <nakilon> email isn't supposed to be read insteneously
18:39:53 <zzo38> I have a message indicator in the system status line, so that if I am at the computer, I can see if there is a email message waiting.
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19:32:14 <nakilon> I opened all the service that I "have to check sometimes" as pinned tabs in one window and try to teach myself to browser them only in order from right to left so it's like a priority, like "you better check email than skype"
19:32:26 <nakilon> not sure if it works for me though but I'm trying
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19:47:46 <esowiki> [[GORBITSA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81910&oldid=78312 * ZippyMagician * (+35) Add OM and ONN to nonstandard list
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20:07:42 <esowiki> [[Length]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81911&oldid=81318 * Nailuj29 * (+445) 4 new instructions
20:22:47 <esowiki> [[Suptiftam]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81912&oldid=81908 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* Variable declaration */ Wording
20:33:59 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81913&oldid=81758 * EnilKoder * (+19) added Primer Post Braces to the comment
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22:30:44 <b_jonas> > take 80 ("b" ++ cycle "an")
22:30:46 <lambdabot> "bananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananan...
22:34:38 <zzo38> My idea about playing a card game with separate decks by computer with a trusted third party who does not know anything about the game, but provides data at regular or nearly regular intervals, which is unpredictable before it occurs. It has many requirements about the game being played, which means that many games are not suitable. It otherwise works with hashes and block chain (which need not be known by anyone other than the players)
23:06:47 <fizzie> I faintly remember stock prices being used for a purpose like that for a game. Oh, wait, I'm just thinking about xkcd's geohashing.
23:08:52 <b_jonas> does this channel have a bot more trusted than HackEso who can give us random numbers by the way?
23:09:20 <zzo38> I don't know. Does fungot have such a command?
23:09:39 <b_jonas> jevalbot can give random numbers\
23:10:04 <zzo38> Does lambdabot have such a command?
23:10:04 <b_jonas> and it uses a cryptograhpically non-secure random generator too
23:10:18 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
23:10:24 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search
23:10:24 <lambdabot> seen slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
23:10:30 <lambdabot> @dice <expr>. Throw random dice. <expr> is of the form 3d6+2.
23:10:56 <lambdabot> unexpected end of input: expecting digit
23:12:05 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
23:14:08 <zzo38> I suppose it doesn't have such thing as drop lowest and drop highest and cards etc
23:14:59 <zzo38> Do you know what random number generation is used?
23:36:59 <fizzie> You can get one random bit out of fungot.
23:37:09 <fizzie> Well, one bit at a time, that is.
23:39:55 <fizzie> That's from cfunge's implementation of the Befunge '?' instruction, which I'm not 100% sure where it's from. Looks like it's either from the srandom/random pair of functions, or arc4random where available.
23:48:49 -!- FreeFull has quit.