00:11:34 <zzo38> One of my ideas of web browser is that extensions can be written in C or in JavaScript; they are not limited to only JavaScript. Another idea is cookie notification in the status line; if the user ignores it then the cookie is set (or not set, if cookies are disabled), but the user can push the keys to customize the cookies it just received.
00:11:51 <zzo38> (Cookies can also be edited later at any time.)
00:13:17 <zzo38> In Firefox, you can push ALT+ENTER in the location bar to open it in a new tab. With the relative location bar feature, this is useful, so this can be retained. And then, SHIFT+ENTER and CTRL+ENTER can be used for other things, such as to edit the request headers (and possibly make a POST request), or to bypass the cache.
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02:37:46 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82211&oldid=82210 * Makonede * (+21)
02:37:54 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82212&oldid=82211 * Makonede * (+2)
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05:32:11 <zzo38> I wrote a program to download a specified version of a program from a fossil repository: http://sprunge.us/IHCjWI
05:36:14 <zzo38> Maybe a mode should be added to verify a PGP signature.
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10:32:06 <fizzie> Hmm, MediaWiki 1.35 bundles Extension:VisualEditor now. Wonder if that'd be worth enabling.
10:47:03 <int-e> it might reduce the number of microedits a bit, and maybe people actually like it?
10:48:13 <int-e> and I'm reading between the lines that users can disable it if they hate it
10:49:10 <int-e> (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VisualEditor#Activating_VisualEditor_by_default ... assuming you don't do the $wgHiddenPrefs[] = 'visualeditor-enable'; thing, and why would you?)
10:49:33 <fizzie> Yeah, AIUI you can do it on an opt-in or an opt-out basis.
10:53:42 <int-e> I don't particularly care about the default. opt-out means people will actually try it out, while with opt-in it may not be used at all
10:55:04 <b_jonas> int-e: in the bubble I live in, most people hate the visual editor
10:55:32 <b_jonas> it's especially the users who clean up after newbies using the visual editor who hate it
10:56:54 <int-e> b_jonas: Ah, do you have an example of such a cleanup? (Not urgent, I'm just wondering what kind if things would get messed up.)
10:57:41 <int-e> I'm not doubting you, you're much more of a Mediawiki user than I am.
10:58:08 <b_jonas> I, of course, still don't like visual editors, as you may surmise from my old https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=789779
10:58:43 <int-e> I suspect I wouldn't like it either, but I'm happy enough if I have a knob to turn it off.
10:59:57 <int-e> I guess there's the Word effect when you have visual editors (where people format text with explicit newlines and spaces)
11:00:10 <int-e> (and also use every available markup at least once per page)
11:00:53 <int-e> But I'm speculating. Hence the desire to see an example. :)
11:01:02 <b_jonas> int-e https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T128060 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T56947
11:01:19 <int-e> . o O ( phacebook )
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11:05:20 <b_jonas> of course there's sort of the other side of the spectrum from visual editors, which are these modern programs that take plain text input but try to apply too much magic formatting to it, like the IRC clients that replace :p with a smiley in std::pair. The latest such overeager one I met is https://superuser.com/q/1642304/
11:07:18 <fizzie> Google Chat converts ~foo~ to strikethrough formatting even when it's part of an autolinkified URL, which looks kind of funny because we have a somewhat frequently linked class of URLs that end in "XXX~YYY~ZZZ".
11:07:27 <int-e> (Of course this isn't a real problem with IRC... where you can just switch to a better client.)
11:07:49 <fizzie> IIRC, the link still works when clicked, but of course a plaintext copy-paste just makes it XXXYYYZZZ.
11:07:50 <int-e> Where "better" happens to mean "less smart".
11:08:49 <int-e> b_jonas: Of course those two phabricator reports in conjunction demonstrate why this is a hard problem.
11:09:10 <int-e> fizzie: Too Unicode
11:09:30 <fizzie> You have to use “smart” quotes with the word smart, it's a rule.
11:09:36 <int-e> b_jonas: Of course you'd never want to change [[2000]] to [[2000|2001]], but also, of course, you never want to change [[Beaver]] to [[Beavers]].
11:09:57 <int-e> fizzie: I suppose that's fair.
11:13:34 <esowiki> [[User:Fizzie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82213&oldid=67187 * Fizzie * (+0) Post-upgrade edit test for 1.35.1.
11:13:51 <fizzie> (I didn't enable that editor, at least yet, just did the upgrade.)
11:14:32 <fizzie> Also I got that version wrong, it's 1.35.2.
11:17:26 <int-e> fizzie: quick! to the time machine!
11:18:02 <int-e> fizzie: after all, you control the wiki database and 1/3 of the public logs
11:18:36 <int-e> fizzie: don't let that power go unabused
11:20:16 <fizzie> We have always been at war with Eastasia.
11:22:18 <int-e> that reminds me, I still haven't made any progress on detonating the Sun
11:22:21 <fizzie> I was trying to run rebuildFileCache.php (as I do after every upgrade, to pre-populate it), and it got to "Cached page 'Les Accents Français' (id 11695)..." but then choked up by exhausting the available memory and starting to swap. I don't know if it's the page after that (whatever it is), or just something more general like a memory leak.
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12:57:15 <esowiki> [[PREG]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82214 * EZ132 * (+1432) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=PREG |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:EZ132]] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |memsys=register based |class=:Category:Unknown computational class|..."
12:57:29 <esowiki> [[PREG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82215&oldid=82214 * EZ132 * (-29)
12:59:17 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82216&oldid=82168 * EZ132 * (+11) /* P */
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17:43:01 <zzo38> I don't like WYSIWYG editing and I disable the VisualEditor anyways. (What might help, though, is a new attribute for <textarea> to specify the expected format of the text; if understood by the client and enabled by the user, then it can do whatever the user has configured e.g. syntax highlighting, auto-completion, WYSIWYG, previewing, etc; this allows customization, and may also improve speed since it may be native code)
17:45:48 <zzo38> (If not implemented in the client but document scripts are enabled, they can be used instead, but they might be slower (since they aren't native code) and might not do what the end user wands.)
17:48:01 <zzo38> Another idea of web browser I have is script substitution. If the user installs a script to substitute for a specific script (either by URL or by hash), then it will use that script instead of the one specified in the document. This can work even if document scripts are disabled. If by hash and the integrity attribute is specified, then the script is not downloaded if there is a substitution, since the hash is already known.
17:48:28 <zzo38> (If the substitution is by URL, then the script is never downloaded.)
17:51:43 <zzo38> About hashes in git, well, fossil can use SHA-1 or SHA3-256. I also think I read somewhere that new versions of git might use SHA2-256. On my computer at least, the "sha1sum" program doesn't seem to have an option for a hardened implementation, and I don't know about if the Node.js crypto module has such an option either
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18:53:39 <fizzie> int-e: I feel it's probably some sort of a memory leak in the update script, and/or PHP itself. I restarted it from where it ended up at (there's an argument to specify the start page ID) and watched the free memory, and it went down in a linear fashion. Guess I'll just do it in chunks the next time or something.
18:55:16 <fizzie> (s/free/available/, strictly speaking.)
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19:31:39 <b_jonas> fizzie: check if it has any settings, maybe it caches a large amount of the database in memory or something
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