< 1619051093 825203 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1619052405 498175 :Chickie!~Chickie@193.27.12.108 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1619052598 651370 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User talk:Trump Bot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82360&oldid=82313 5* 03Trump Bot 5* (+115) 10 < 1619055331 688890 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric > 1619056647 405355 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82361&oldid=82340 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+202) 10/* Befunge */ Letterless version > 1619057056 315548 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82362&oldid=82195 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (-1) 10/* Aheui */ Reduced from 2 lines to 1 line. It could even be further reduced to 6 cells, but no such programs have yet been discovered. > 1619058192 954276 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82363&oldid=82361 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+732) 10/* Befunk */ 22 cells. Sorry, I can't upload pictures < 1619061013 721529 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1619061018 539973 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:cyberiad//The Cyberiad is not just a book. It's an M&S book. \ something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom//It is now. \ ioccclist//ioccclist is update notification for when a new year of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest is announced, or the winners for a year is announced, or the source codes of winners are released. http://www.ioccc.org/#news \ hice//Hice is the plural form of house. \ lie algebra//A Lie algebra is what < 1619061020 66979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1619061020 924465 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size. < 1619063772 776872 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghghsapwpjmmudvk PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1619063891 794747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1619063918 630157 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@184.21.16.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619063957 441692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group, unfortunately. < 1619063969 892385 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close, and yet so close. < 1619064558 587647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION observes shachaf through a microscope < 1619064590 871707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds a drop of nitroglycerin and stirs < 1619065053 360968 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghghsapwpjmmudvk PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1619065061 891432 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghghsapwpjmmudvk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just having a chill evening after work < 1619066074 496150 :Frater_EST!adrianbibl@184.21.16.181 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619067245 964273 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-hdagiffzrimqfmhl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1619067248 790557 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-dpqrbaettdqywxai QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1619069348 43280 :les-citrons!~raven@alt.mondecitronne.com QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1619069914 442984 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xzaecuahctroylwr JOIN :#esoteric < 1619071211 699160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1619071657 918851 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1619075707 572166 :mla!~mla@162.253.176.229 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1619076679 983033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shocking. < 1619076717 349129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi int-e < 1619076949 692954 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey > 1619077170 97743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Butterbrain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82364&oldid=81116 5* 03Voltage2007 5* (-209) 10 < 1619078830 793661 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1619078949 776371 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1619079041 709390 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: night zzz > 1619079446 580232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Befunk14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82365 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+374) 10Questions > 1619079603 257512 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82366&oldid=82156 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+684) 10/* Examples */ Hello World < 1619080334 499634 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619081480 875883 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1619083282 115108 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Befunk14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82367&oldid=82366 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+95) 10 > 1619083328 194465 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:Befunk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82368&oldid=82365 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+18) 10 < 1619088402 984455 :oylit8o79uj!aec4ce19@25.sub-174-196-206.myvzw.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1619091330 449216 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619092938 527696 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619093267 599891 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1619094170 162061 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82369&oldid=82363 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-22) 10/* Befunge */ Does not use `v` < 1619094592 975686 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1619094647 779561 :LKoen_!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619094781 575195 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1619094931 919610 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1619096646 704173 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xzaecuahctroylwr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619096647 71556 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vzsrrsltjzpfzzlo QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619096732 472842 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xzaecuahctroylwr JOIN :#esoteric < 1619096732 472904 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vzsrrsltjzpfzzlo JOIN :#esoteric < 1619100196 387248 :LKoen_!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619100301 251815 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619101598 610489 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619101617 455251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1232 < 1619101620 168603 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1232.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1619101842 961409 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619101867 863490 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1619103071 230696 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@64.85.173.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619103996 583209 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@64.85.173.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619104041 947106 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@64.85.173.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619104115 832667 :NotApplicable!~NotApplic@64.85.173.130 PART :#esoteric < 1619106559 548712 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, HackEso. thackEso. < 1619106765 300305 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a reason why we don't make articles on artifical video game languages? < 1619106797 330947 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all the Zach games or Mindustry that I play now < 1619106872 381211 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the AI I made for example https://dpaste.org/z1Qq/slim < 1619106942 164979 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think there's a distinction between an esoteric programming language and one with limited applications, like you have in games < 1619106944 852177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to be well (enough) documented inside the respective game, and mostly not too interesting < 1619106947 24256 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some are certainly both < 1619106971 362922 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :while basically game allows to either switch all the units you produce to go attack immediately or to rest at your base, this program makes them gather in a pack until they reach number 8, then all attack and retreat again if some of them die < 1619106993 138579 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIS-1000 might be a fit on esolangs, the other Zachtronics games that I've played less so < 1619107000 827475 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, some games are accidentally TC and make it on the wiki: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Baba_Is_You < 1619107032 306196 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb yep, TIS-100 is the candidate I'm thinking about the most < 1619107048 547292 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, TIS-100 is *made* for programming. < 1619107075 300703 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is made for programming, but to be distinctly unconventional < 1619107083 494059 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed on the wiki... sure. But I think there are reasons why nobody has bothered yet. < 1619107091 814501 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmm, "sure < 1619107093 471208 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :") < 1619107155 359320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually uncertain about the licensing side of this. I guess describing the pure language is fine, but screenshots may already be tricky? < 1619107182 240160 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they tend to be well (enough) documented inside the respective game" -- those official docs are often read-only, not community driven, and so people make additional manuals on reddit, in their homepages, etc. < 1619107212 230535 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Opus Magnum is (or might be?) unintentionally turing complete < 1619107215 892350 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play those games to figure things out myself :P < 1619107279 867543 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :box-256 with its crazy threading and memory model felt far more esoteric than any of the zachtronics languages I've seen < 1619107374 77670 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nakilon: you can absolutely make such an article. I think I created one on OpenTTD; I might create one for the games that I have played recently, which have some built-in computation with a somewhat interesting model < 1619107432 841765 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"accidentally TC"? Baba Is You being TC isn't even that surprising, I'm not sure you can call it an accident. < 1619107444 353849 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baba Is You is clearly a programming game < 1619107453 231958 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even disguise that < 1619107477 292408 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this TIS-100? < 1619107481 562731 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it does disguise itself as a puzzle game < 1619107483 565942 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a Terminator model? < 1619107491 780529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: a Zachtronics game < 1619107513 184039 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well of course, Baba is You should have a goal, and puzzles are often the best thing to add < 1619107537 869345 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make games that don't specifically have puzzles, you just have to figure out how to use the mechanics effectively < 1619107544 544513 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some have specific puzzles designed in < 1619107558 151478 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenTTD does not have these extra puzzles < 1619107856 14039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: in any case I'm not convinced that Baba is You is deliberately TC. It obviously is designed to be programmable, but you can get a lot of puzzles out of plain finite state machines. < 1619107866 590853 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know. < 1619108184 869082 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619108207 850299 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1619108678 622689 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas isn't OpenTTD just Squirel? > 1619110068 265418 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Loadstring14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82370&oldid=80081 5* 03Tape 5* (+16) 10/* Clamp */ > 1619110095 204638 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Loadstring14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82371&oldid=82370 5* 03Tape 5* (+0) 10/* Math */ < 1619110603 182168 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619110687 864961 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nakilon: what is a squirel? there doesn't seem to be a wiki entry < 1619110753 254886 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it might not be deliberately TC, but it's deliberately programmable, and does not have any deliberate restrictions to curtail TCness, eg. it lets all entities move at the same time, lets you spawn any number of the same entity on the same square, there isn't a resource system where creating entities costs you something, etc < 1619110809 647707 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Baba is You known to be TC on a finite map by the way? < 1619110831 225022 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was a Minsky machine < 1619110848 838760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean yes. < 1619110904 47203 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you have a link or something? I'm curious now < 1619110905 206968 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619110916 571559 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect that such a thing should exist, but I wonder if someone explicitly proved it < 1619110987 502679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a link at hand. Hence "I thought" rather than the claim and a supporting link :P < 1619111121 952762 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1619111248 384505 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1619111602 366557 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619111643 878672 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@128-124-167-133.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619112551 196138 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some good feature that were supposed to be in HTML, CSS, HTTP, etc, but the features that are usually implemented are usually the bad ones instead. < 1619113125 906637 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619113185 960948 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619113500 578746 :harha!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1619113713 847247 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619113713 997855 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619113714 453320 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619113714 454253 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split > 1619114211 165 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82372&oldid=78577 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-2) 10/* Data types */ Type the data < 1619114318 926379 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1619114787 435049 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619115073 769470 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619115476 237928 :deltaepsilon23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 NICK :delta23 < 1619115653 588693 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas < 1619115654 738819 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Script/Squirrel < 1619115681 594699 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you was saying about railroad signs logic < 1619115906 141180 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_%28programming_language%29 < 1619115907 940912 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.squirrel-lang.org/ < 1619116046 529574 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC I used Squirrel for procedural generation in my CS:GO map https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1332505502 < 1619117076 441074 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu JOIN :#esoteric < 1619117100 733212 :harha!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1619117106 668050 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1619117120 973670 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am curious < 1619117142 174827 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would anyone here define colorforth as an esoteric language, and why? if not, why not? < 1619117169 166343 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny you say that. < 1619117190 900681 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :had a member of the ISO C++ committee argue, long ago, that forth in general was an esoteric language because it's niche and ultimately not widely used. < 1619117224 93128 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that extension COBOL is esoteric, so.. < 1619117226 319090 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs. < 1619117243 413430 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that as part of the C++ committee, or just someone who happened to be a member, arguing independently? < 1619117260 682545 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _wish_ it was an official statement. < 1619117269 483003 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just a dude who I hung out with. < 1619117275 709902 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :acting independently. < 1619117285 938281 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1619117301 755070 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :would've loved to see the standards committee shit-talk forth hobbyists. < 1619117326 602418 :ArthurStrong!~ArthurStr@128-124-167-133.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1619117339 118986 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think somone else on this IRC once mentioned that PostScript is both esoteric and non-esoteric at the same time, and I think that might be about right (it is also general-purpose and domain-specific at the same time, and text and binary at the same time). < 1619117370 351592 :harha_!~harha@ns356919.ip-91-121-144.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1619117376 65740 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think? < 1619117385 87376 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that statement would be in-scope for the committee, unless perhaps they want to define a standard for interoperation between that language and C++ < 1619117406 98727 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, at what temperature is revenge best served? < 1619117406 444428 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 2. if the callframe isn't held somewhere, either in scheme, thats y, i get really frustrated with its limitations. the reader can't possibly detect that reasonably, and the < 1619117417 547659 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: celsius or fahrenheit? < 1619117417 898537 :fungot!~fungot@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/fungot PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ( but they're already in scope. i dont believe at microsoft research. aaaaand, guess what, they were already cool, because i'll be doing something *completely* wrong < 1619117443 682279 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cool", not cold. I assume it's celsius then. < 1619117447 298765 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldnt call forth itself esoteric < 1619117523 42701 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on your interpretation of the definition of esoteric. < 1619117532 324034 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither would I, but there may be some interest to some esoteric programmers < 1619117540 445950 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest" < 1619117551 428656 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call Forth esoteric by that definition. < 1619117558 154789 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPN langs in general, I guess. < 1619117559 928327 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1619117561 11905 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I think I read somewhere that the inventor of INTERCAL programs in PostScript; of course, that has nothing to do with being esoteric or not) < 1619117561 654693 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so < 1619117578 234027 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the general programming population are not forth users. < 1619117597 877047 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true of most minority languages, yes < 1619117607 925989 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, hence why I said COBOL is technically esoteric. < 1619117618 196834 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I assume that was after he invented Intercal, because Postscript is a newer language < 1619117645 543316 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have exactly one interesting program in postscript, http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/catalan.ps , and I don't think I'll ever write another one < 1619117660 530082 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, probably. < 1619117672 523311 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like PostScript. but I like my language more. < 1619117685 409848 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, its hard to present something like forth and scheme as esoteric by that definition because they dont really.. close themselves off? < 1619117723 840361 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you narrow that definition by excluding one of the 'or' clauses, it's "understood by the select few who have interest". < 1619117761 828524 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you could make the argument. < 1619117770 387349 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the argument, but you could make it. < 1619117815 69060 :periish[m]1!periishmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eiwavxoxwtejyniu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1619117834 346725 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : is Baba is You known to be TC on a finite map by the way? => wait, how, wouldn’t all possible states a finite set in this case?.. < 1619117854 901539 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven’t finished the game yet, still, though) < 1619117857 172362 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: you can have multiples of the same entity on a square. and I think you can push or destroy one in some way. < 1619117872 166086 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have multiples of the same entity on a square?! < 1619117878 634342 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1619117904 266740 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1619117951 216131 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that'd be TC if you could push and pop from at least two stacks conditionally form a tape and you're done. < 1619117956 788287 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : would anyone here define colorforth as an esoteric language, and why? if not, why not? => I would say it’s definitely esoteric even though I’m not too versed in forth and colorforth (but I’ve investigated concatenative programming languages and I heard about colorforth a small deal) < 1619117991 459078 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think that it would be difficult to see in such a case unless there is some sort of inspection menu (like Free Hero Mesh has) < 1619118032 722544 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : by that extension COBOL is esoteric, so.. => wait how nononononono it shouldn’t, esoteric languages should be at least quite fun and not corporative < 1619118067 396183 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: it hurts, but it's true. :( < 1619118096 207906 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there might be the case for some things to be called "quasi-esoteric", although, it is unsure. < 1619118106 758349 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? BANCStar is clearly commercial and still counts as esoteric < 1619118164 279542 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: you can have multiples of the same entity on a square. and I think you can push or destroy one in some way. => thanks! Yep indeed now I remember a couple of clipping situations, though it would be interesting to know how to remove exactly one of entities < 1619118198 354977 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you can't *push* one off, but I think you can destroy one < 1619118216 59736 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also see the prehistory of esoteric programming. < 1619118219 291267 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add one, and check if there's at least one left, which should be enough, if you get some control structures working < 1619118229 867578 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is, is it a bug, or is it a feature. < 1619118247 377081 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a bug would it be right to call baba is you turing complete, or a particular version of baba is you turing complete when/if the bug is fixed. < 1619118253 933098 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: it hurts, but it's true. :( => I think now it’s time to devise an arith… esoteric hierarchy. Like, sum languages, product languages and delta languages which no one understands what that means < 1619118264 763025 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's a bg < 1619118279 570782 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: fun languages. < 1619118340 898594 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what do you mean? => commerce kills fun! I have a signed evidence somewhere in an imaginary room < 1619118389 374668 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : question is, is it a bug, or is it a feature. => I think I remember one puzzle requiring that clipping/stacking of entities < 1619118459 625658 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Baba Is You have an inspection menu like Free Hero Mesh has, or anything else that would allow to see what it is (e.g. displaying a number in the grid if there is more than one)? < 1619118477 414803 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sweet spot for Minsky machines and my generalized kind of them, and someone not from here gave me an idea to write a story book about them. But I don’t know what story that could be < 1619118534 175016 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if there’s no new stuff in the level editor (which I haven’t seen yet) then probably no < 1619118548 574126 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you prefer the 2-register minsky machine < 1619118589 934983 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to use an arbitrary inductive family of polynomial types instead of just Nat = S | Z Nat < 1619118603 228063 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nat = Z | S Nat, sorry of course < 1619118608 398467 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One nonstandard feature I often use when programming in PostScript is the possibility to read command-line arguments, which is implemented in Ghostscript by defining a array named ARGUMENTS which has the command-line arguments. < 1619118665 395219 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can have { Even = Z | S1 Odd; Odd = S2 Even } or { Nat = Z | S Nat; List = Nil | Cons Nat List } or binary naturals or something else < 1619118666 251805 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, it is a feature I would want to standardize in the next version of PostScript, which if official would be called "level 4 PostScript", but since it isn't, I should call it "Computer PostScript".) < 1619118724 678899 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very versatile, and you can just as easily generalize the recursive function formalism to that too, so they remain in step with each other. For me this is really neat I can’t get over it < 1619118755 873145 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an arbitrary inductive family of polynomial types" => at which point they're not just Minsky machines, they're at *least* stack machines < 1619118762 721244 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: ↑ < 1619118764 683922 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly more, because they could manipulate trees too < 1619118794 703222 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but I think Nat is a stack of elements, we just can’t discern them < 1619118840 496151 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I agree they can be classified any way which would make sense < 1619118841 154606 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're telling me is that everything is all linear media. < 1619118868 36973 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in optical sense? < 1619118871 52964 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of features would you want to add/change in PostScript? (I have many ideas myself, including removing a small number of things that are in level 3 PostScript, which would not be applicable to Computer PostScript, such as the system parameter to count the total number of pages ever printed, which is only applicable on printers, not on the computer) < 1619118875 303741 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a tape/stack sense. < 1619118887 116605 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: custom syntax would be nice. < 1619118928 529818 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, then I don’t know what is a linear medium/a < 1619118929 702857 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Can you give an example? You can already read arbitrary text inline from the source file by using the "currentfile" operator < 1619118979 469434 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: basically anything that can be expressed/is-a linear sequence. < 1619119127 974945 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it’s also neat that as easily we can have a generalized Minsky machine for { Bool = False | True } and that would be just a finite state machine which is not TC, but also we can have all those TC machines. Though then it’s just those two: either TC or functions between finite sets, nothing inbetween nor anything more than TC < 1619119182 239214 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that generalized minsky machine just be a finite state machine with different kinds of memory. < 1619119300 950859 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: hmmm. Well at least we know many countable sets don’t have a computable bijection with ℕ so they aren’t necessary a sets of sequences; also for many sets that do, there are no natural computable bijections so we have full rights to treat them as having their own structure which is not related to ℕ. For example all those types like lists of nats or pairs of nats or whatever < 1619119357 286111 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :arseniiv: I can't read that glyph, is that R? < 1619119357 599336 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wouldn't that generalized minsky machine just be a finite state machine with different kinds of memory. => I think in general only if you can say that about the usual Minsky machine (I don’t know) < 1619119367 590821 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: \mathbb N < 1619119381 794440 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1619119413 736417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it displays in my IRC client in a strange manner, I don’t know what font substitution black magic is there < 1619119443 144149 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I better abstain from using it, then < 1619119523 44417 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: there is a technical description of GM machines on the wiki, I placed it somewhere, I’ll post a link, though my descriptions are too dense usually < 1619119566 966241 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Generalized_Minsky_machine < 1619119747 725822 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still implies a data structure with a successor/predecessor operation. > 1619120733 893745 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82373&oldid=82372 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+836) 10Put more things onto the page < 1619121167 959298 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghghsapwpjmmudvk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1619121502 641787 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619121504 426828 :pikhq!sid394595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fdfhkmcmcvjumizu JOIN :#esoteric < 1619121681 890334 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1619121682 41675 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1619122132 963430 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82374&oldid=82045 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+169) 10 < 1619125786 453464 :Frater_EST!~adrianbib@184.21.16.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619127126 789719 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@94.41.9.111.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1619127185 580567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.237.136 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1619128179 167974 :LKoen!~LKoen@11.160.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1619130196 717403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1619130369 215909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: shocking. <-- it made sense in context. well, to me anyway. < 1619130449 86884 :sftp!~sftp@unaffiliated/sftp QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1619130526 566311 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1619130528 97816 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :black pepper \ -(10 oz) orange juice \ 1 ts Cornstarch \ 1/2 ts Cayenne pepper \ 1/2 ts Pepper \ 3 tb Granulated sugar \ 2 c Canned peaches, drained \ - minced \ 2 ts Baking soda \ 8 oz Green onions \ \ Combine flour and butter or cooking spray. Topped: Cook beef and peppers. \ Cool completely. \ \ Preheat oven to 375F. To cool completely onto prepared cheesecloth. Cover and simmer for 30 minutes, until \ all ingredients are d < 1619130548 561628 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :peaches with onion, pepper and more pepper? < 1619130555 719548 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it ha beef too\ < 1619130584 41435 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheesecloth < 1619130588 139657 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a cheesecloth? < 1619130638 157815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it a sort of a gauze-like fabric? < 1619130647 107943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's some subtle difference. < 1619130687 418745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use it as a filter to strain things, I think. I don't think it makes too much sense in that context. < 1619130699 166127 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1619130802 359506 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I always associate "mince" with meat, which makes the mince pies they eat here at Christmas always sound a little odd. (Also, I don't like the taste at all.) < 1619130863 515939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` recipe | paste < 1619130864 853342 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.24487 < 1619130888 984116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping the formatting would be better, but it really wasn't all *that* much. < 1619130942 808846 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, but if it had meat, then it would sound odd because you associate "pie" with fruits and flour-based light dough < 1619131029 841446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do a lot of meat-based pies here too. Steak and ale pies and so on. < 1619131043 892237 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1619131076 241257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course shepherd's pie and cottage pie, neither of which has *anything* to do with an actual pie. < 1619131114 43401 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the British have all sorts of strange food names, like "pudding" that has meat < 1619131143 365571 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that our food names are better < 1619131147 569034 :b_jonas!~a@catv-176-63-11-172.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just more used to them < 1619131150 541264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shepherd's / cottage pie is a dish that's got lamb or minced beef on the bottom together with carrots and such, and then it's covered with mashed potatoes. < 1619131166 389789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it looks vaguely pie-ish when it comes out of the oven. < 1619134769 653621 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that someone made a blank page in Microsoft Word and converted it to PDF, and it is twelve kilobytes. Why does it need twelve kilobytes for just one blank page? I did the same on my computer with Ghostscript and it is only two kilobytes long (approximately) < 1619135216 348930 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Microsoft Word add some stuff extra that Ghostscript doesn't add?