< 1619828065 180446 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: brings to question how a lot of "concatenative languages" define what counts as a valid program. < 1619828305 179096 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if valid programs can be constructed via concatenation of arbitrary programs one must wonder what counts as a valid program. < 1619828393 146956 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program `1 +` is valid in a concatenative language. and you can break that program apart by simply splitting it down the middle, into 1 and +. < 1619828460 464644 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could say that the "inverse" of concatenation would be, like, splitting it apart at any arbitrary point. < 1619828503 742153 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntactically, any languages that use bracketed quotations aren't concatenative. if I split it apart and the brackets don't match on either side, it's not a valid program. < 1619828511 396083 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, the two halves aren't. < 1619828665 762223 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what makes, say, '1 + apply' different than, say, ` + 1? I can split it all up into individual tokens and concatenate them again every which way, but only some combinations of those things are valid programs. < 1619828694 708094 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it down to the semantics, then? that when I try to run `1 + apply`, I get a stack underflow because the thing I'm applying was binary? < 1619828755 750250 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it that if I split "apply + 1" or "` + 1" up, or carve up any unlambda program, I won't get a valid underlying tree representation? < 1619828987 987942 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I consider any valid program as "anything that can leave the underlying interpreter in a steady state". < 1619830767 37095 :big_caballito!~bcbo@184.53.32.69 QUIT :Quit: installing glorious TempleOS < 1619830985 662698 :big_caballito!~bcbo@184.53.32.69 JOIN :#esoteric > 1619831288 53014 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07202014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82527&oldid=82153 5* 03EnilKoder 5* (+427) 10started PrimitiveType zooms < 1619832907 88492 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619834179 435397 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Hmmm < 1619835071 810614 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1619835451 941830 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619835940 371170 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1619836302 867767 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619839957 397665 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bodjmmiexpfrqdom QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1619840678 341847 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1619840835 787213 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619842097 617373 :adu_!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619842209 549706 :big_caballito!~bcbo@184.53.32.69 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1619842351 622963 :big_caballito!~bcbo@184.53.33.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619842532 647393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1619845707 153014 :adu_!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net NICK :adu < 1619845990 95227 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619845990 365665 :stux|RC!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619845990 594044 :sknebel!~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619845990 594093 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619845990 762043 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619845990 929694 :V!~v@anomalous.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619845990 929739 :zeroed!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619845991 97640 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619846277 768906 :stux|RC!stux2@grid9.quadspeedi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846633 433828 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net NICK :07IAAGOW1 < 1619846635 493947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846635 493987 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846635 494026 :sknebel!~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846635 494034 :j-bot!~jbot@hagall.firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846635 494041 :V!~v@anomalous.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846635 494048 :zeroed!~admin@unaffiliated/zeroed JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846635 494055 :interruptinuse!~interrupt@girl.mrtheplague.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619846742 650007 :07IAAGOW1!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net NICK :adu < 1619846803 994357 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Maybe if it uses bracketed quotations, it can be said as a nested concatenative where the blocks are considered as atomic, then. < 1619846830 979379 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true. but it's pretty hacky. < 1619847014 829043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have something like underload's * and a, you only need single-character blocks < 1619847046 657877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can compose the rest < 1619847121 983635 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right. but the resulting program state of a program that builds a quotation no longer corresponds to a valid program. < 1619847171 384296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1619847247 778570 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you may build these objects, they are not directly representable without some kind of transformation back into the things that built them, which is not a 1:1 mapping. < 1619847308 721767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it can never be a 1:1 mapping if it's TC anyhow < 1619847348 438539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might choose a canonical form. but it might be awkward to work with. < 1619847365 817225 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, that's true. but it still stands that they're nit directly representable. < 1619847390 959818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you could choose a canonical form as the representation. < 1619847407 544451 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still rather not have that intermediate transformation step. < 1619847430 292108 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the programming language, some might have atomic quotation blocks like I mentioned, in which case it might be representable < 1619847505 974690 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :those aren't distinctly concatenative though unless you say "any division of a program needs to have a balanced set of parentheses". < 1619847513 444591 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/parentheses/brackets < 1619847540 962054 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which imo if you're talking about program concatenation that's a different operation entirely. < 1619847552 537988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am imagining an underload variant where e.g. (a) is represented as a single character. < 1619847577 865630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are no brackets < 1619847666 384777 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. but again, if I compose a quotation out of those atoms/quoted functions, there's no way to represent those as valid subprograms without translating them into subprograms that construct those quotations. < 1619847672 225837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm alternative idea: give some semantic to unmatched brackets < 1619847724 741353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that reminds me of my underload interpreter in emmental, where there where 3 modes that a character could be interpreted in < 1619847795 337537 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could give semantics to the unmatched brackets.. and that's kind of where the notion of valid program breaks down into the semantics of the language, I guess. < 1619847801 564546 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In PostScript you can have a block such as "{1 add}" which is treated as a single token, although you can also write "1 /add cvx 2 array astore cvx" which produces the same thing. They are also the same "kind of things"; "{1 add}" just produces the same object in the tokenizer, that the other produces several objects, which when executed, produce that. < 1619847832 151042 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, having different modes of interpretation is like how Forth is doing; once it reads : and then the name, then it is in compiling mode. < 1619847937 634446 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming languages such as Underload could be implemented in either way. < 1619847991 372301 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda gets back to "can I cleave an unlambda program in half and have either half be a valid program". if you have a tolerant enough interpreter, yes. < 1619848127 344770 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, depending on the implementation it might, although Unlambda is more structured, so splitting it after half of the number of bytes will probably break the structure, but some interpreters may try to execute it anyways. < 1619848193 169904 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is, what structure? the structure is there because the apply operation is binary and expects two arguments. if its two arguments don't exist, it just doesn't reduce. < 1619848405 460166 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the structure. But, you could do it other ways in some implementations. In such a case, it would implement a superset of Unlambda, I suppose. < 1619848543 909559 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since, if the structure doesn't match, then I would think that that particular code then won't quite be Unlambda.) < 1619850171 882223 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1619851124 892647 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1619851210 419232 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1619851348 222616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1619851984 733218 :adu!~arobbins@c-76-111-99-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1619854493 892758 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IBM Plex font is in FontLab format, which is proprietary, but looking at the source files, they are XML files, and possibly an open source implementation could be made, by examining the format of the XML files. Has such a thing been done? < 1619856491 858920 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1619856621 704506 :hendursa1!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1619858859 434347 :LKoen!~LKoen@22.249.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619860318 903996 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1619861054 13576 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised that every twitch channel is an IRC channel and you can join it at any time even if it's offline < 1619861090 408158 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the guy who made the Nightbot is a damn genious to make it before others realised to make it < 1619861203 659831 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure though if it's hosted on some server that keeps millions of socket connections to twitch or it's integrated with twitch infrastructure to emulate the botting < 1619861229 373264 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, he does not need millions of connetions, he just keeps one and joins channels < 1619861447 38048 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xzaecuahctroylwr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619861447 209999 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vzsrrsltjzpfzzlo QUIT :*.net *.split < 1619861812 376098 :j4cbo!sid186930@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-autoisfhmajvchds JOIN :#esoteric < 1619861821 402834 :user3456!user3456@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-xzaecuahctroylwr JOIN :#esoteric > 1619867357 49856 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82528&oldid=82516 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+145) 10Finally, I have been building this for ages! I am pretty sure !@#$%^&*()_ will be turing complete if it can rotate the top three elements. > 1619867378 635262 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82529&oldid=82528 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+1) 10-_- > 1619867787 416023 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82530&oldid=82529 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-113) 10This apparantly does not work > 1619868050 381624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82531&oldid=82530 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+116) 10This does? > 1619868070 821764 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82532&oldid=82531 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (-2) 10Huh? > 1619868406 647333 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07!@$%^&*()+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82533&oldid=82513 5* 03SunnyMoon 5* (+190) 10A better parity program < 1619870129 343356 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619870166 809457 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1619873521 231642 :big_caballito!~bcbo@184.53.33.79 PART :#esoteric < 1619873576 407012 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:a468:8d2f:8edb:fb78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619875506 680140 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619880224 366827 :TheLie!~TheLie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619880662 904792 :user24!~user24@2a02:810a:1440:7304:a468:8d2f:8edb:fb78 QUIT :Quit: We must know, we will know < 1619880975 67593 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kwmdjvjmadaqcuvq JOIN :#esoteric < 1619881567 714113 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip QUIT :Ping timeout: 630 seconds < 1619883284 150418 :devc`!~user@gateway/tor-sasl/devc PART #esoteric :"out" < 1619888433 222989 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1619888967 75989 :spruit11!~unknown@86-82-44-193.fixed.kpn.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619889084 305879 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619889340 219777 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1619892146 349032 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1619892166 583397 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619892306 666831 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1619892518 912365 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1619893248 839731 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1619895150 15083 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1619895351 537242 :S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kwmdjvjmadaqcuvq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1619895636 760947 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1619896369 266726 :TurkExportFood!~hasan@94.120.233.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619899684 640508 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1619899700 192864 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1619901843 847585 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvtkxtknhyjkpohz QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1619902003 301078 :TurkExportFood!~hasan@94.120.233.195 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1619902026 944313 :ProofTechnique!sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmamblixaqsfzazg JOIN :#esoteric < 1619902493 807804 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-trwjaoytkbwefale QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1619902511 125070 :dnm!sid401311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gebzggtwpiflmmmt JOIN :#esoteric < 1619902515 984204 :^[!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ugyfoxhbynrgoqzp QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1619902648 986816 :^[!sid43445@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep JOIN :#esoteric < 1619906046 225787 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zohuszkgaklticjf JOIN :#esoteric < 1619908376 784833 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds > 1619908782 688920 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:TheSingularity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82534&oldid=81161 5* 03BrightBlackHole 5* (+186) 10/* Help! */ > 1619908790 831361 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:TheSingularity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82535&oldid=82534 5* 03BrightBlackHole 5* (+2) 10 > 1619908879 154190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:TheSingularity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82536&oldid=82535 5* 03BrightBlackHole 5* (+0) 10 > 1619908982 570922 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BrightBlackHole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82537&oldid=78572 5* 03BrightBlackHole 5* (+89) 10/* ok for real though */ > 1619909002 525125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BrightBlackHole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82538&oldid=82537 5* 03BrightBlackHole 5* (+0) 10/* ok for real though */ > 1619909018 535525 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:BrightBlackHole14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82539&oldid=82538 5* 03BrightBlackHole 5* (-113) 10/* ok for real though */ < 1619910112 982781 :LKoen!~LKoen@22.249.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1619910292 571638 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1619911712 688025 :mniip!mniip@freenode/staff/mniip JOIN :#esoteric