00:02:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82572&oldid=82564 * Monika-Trenholme * (+366) /* Introductions */
00:03:33 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82573&oldid=82572 * Monika-Trenholme * (-120) /* Introductions */
00:11:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RXVT100 * New user account
00:11:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82574&oldid=82573 * RXVT100 * (+3) /* Introductions */
00:13:38 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82575&oldid=82574 * RXVT100 * (+78) /* Introductions */
00:15:42 <esowiki> [[User:RXVT100]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82576 * RXVT100 * (+77) Created page with "~~~~"
00:17:12 <esowiki> [[User:RXVT100]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82577&oldid=82576 * RXVT100 * (+316)
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01:59:36 <imode> why do the BCKW combinators carry an extra `x` parameter around? for convenience?
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02:21:02 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82578&oldid=82570 * Zzo38 * (+1551)
03:06:26 <zzo38> I don't know why, but maybe it is needed I don't know
03:50:16 <imode> seems like a lot of the reasoning behind the different combinators comes down to "requirements", but deducing these requirements and the intuition behind them is something to be reverse engineered.
04:20:14 <zzo38> Yes, maybe it is (unless it is documented already).
04:21:41 <shachaf> Which ones have an extra parameter?
04:22:02 <shachaf> It seems necessary to me in all four cases.
04:22:22 <imode> why? if you omit `x`, it's still a valid combinator set. B denotes application but the rest just denote adjacency.
04:22:50 <zzo38> Yes, I also thought probably it is, although I have not proved it at this time either way (I have not tried, though).
04:22:54 <imode> https://doisinkidney.com/posts/2020-10-17-ski.html literally the only article I have found on a BCKW formulation without that first parameter.
04:23:59 <shachaf> What are you suggesting for the non-x versions?
04:24:12 <imode> just omitting the `x` like the article.
04:24:23 <shachaf> I see, you were actually thinking of using M instead of W.
04:24:25 <imode> though I don't know why `Axy -> y`.
04:24:48 <imode> maybe I'm missing something but the equivalent should be, what, `Axy -> x`?
04:25:10 <imode> or maybe just... `Ax -> `
04:25:22 <shachaf> I'm not sure what that latter one means.
04:25:28 <shachaf> Anyway, I think of these functions as trying to accomplish a specific goal, I guess.
04:25:46 <imode> the latter one is "A applied to some x deletes x."
04:25:50 <shachaf> Corresponding to things you can do in logic.
04:25:59 <shachaf> But is A a function here, or what?
04:26:04 <imode> duplication, argument reordering (swapping, in this case), deletion, and composition.
04:26:07 <imode> A is a combinator.
04:26:31 <shachaf> What is a combinator in this context? Not a thing you can write as a lambda term?
04:26:35 <imode> as shown in the article. don't know why it's Axy -> y and not Ax -> :nil:.
04:26:42 <imode> combinator as in the combinatory calculus.
04:26:55 <imode> combinatory logic.
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04:28:23 <shachaf> I'm not sure what this is in this usage. Some sort of rewriting system?
04:34:52 <zzo38> Presumably due to the structure is why it is not "Ax -> :nil:" I suppose
04:36:00 <shachaf> Anyway, maybe looking at the types explains why I think these are more natural.
04:36:22 <shachaf> w : (a -> a -> b) -> (a -> b)
04:36:34 <imode> I'm surprised you've not heard of combinatory logic before, shachaf.
04:37:09 <imode> I don't read intuition behind type signatures.
04:37:09 <shachaf> I have heard of combinatory logic. But not in a context that allows "Ax -> ".
04:37:23 <shachaf> Anyway, M doesn't even have a type, is one argument against it.
04:37:53 <imode> I don't think types dictate the intutition or requirements behind these.
04:38:15 <imode> but, what do I know.
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04:45:20 <zzo38> Do you like the Magic: the Gathering card that I had made up? {?} Instant ;; Two target permanents copy each other. Exchange control of those permanents. It doesn't seems like much, but actually there is a lot of things that it can do.
04:54:19 <b_jonas> re BCKW, ideally https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic#BCKW_calculus should tell how to translate lambda calculus to BCKW directly, rather than just the more opaque equivalence with SKI. the direct translation gives an intuition of why BCKW is convenient. I only realized that after thinking about Amicus, which has a built-in B combinator
04:57:01 <b_jonas> but it probably makes more sense with multi-variable functions like Amicus and FP have
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06:10:43 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82579&oldid=82078 * Ais523 * (-10) per policy, make sure that the User: prefix on links to userspace is visilbe
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06:43:03 <esowiki> [[NDBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82580&oldid=82563 * Aspwil * (+42) /* Truth machine */
07:49:47 <esowiki> [[User talk:SunnyMoon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82581&oldid=77359 * TwilightSparkle * (+139)
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11:30:00 <esowiki> [[User talk:SunnyMoon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82582&oldid=82581 * SunnyMoon * (+154) Yay!
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14:20:45 <esowiki> [[$tonePits]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82583&oldid=62875 * SunnyMoon * (-17) little bit of cleanup
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14:31:48 <esowiki> [[((?)?)?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82584&oldid=75488 * SunnyMoon * (+0) Croup is a terrible disease
14:32:38 <esowiki> [[((?)?)?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82585&oldid=82584 * SunnyMoon * (-1) Nice language by the way
14:34:11 <esowiki> [[((?)?)?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82586&oldid=82585 * SunnyMoon * (+0) Casting spells never was such a good job
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15:15:50 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82587&oldid=81321 * Lebster * (+119)
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16:05:07 <esowiki> [[Probablyfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82588&oldid=78231 * Rdococ * (-9) /* Implementation details and computational class */ remove weasel word
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16:12:11 <esowiki> [[User:Tha Cuber]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82589&oldid=81303 * Tha Cuber * (+10)
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16:34:14 <esowiki> [[Super Stack!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82590&oldid=65552 * Aanastasiou * (+224) /* Added the links towards the Super Stack! Digirule implementation. */
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17:18:12 <esowiki> [[((?)?)?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82591&oldid=82586 * SunnyMoon * (+248) Spelling
17:24:52 <esowiki> [[((?)?)?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82592&oldid=82591 * SunnyMoon * (-3) Well I am also bad at speling
17:31:11 <esowiki> [[Symbols]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82593&oldid=73082 * SunnyMoon * (-10) It is preferred if you write this this way
17:33:07 <esowiki> [[Talk:Symbols]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82594 * SunnyMoon * (+206) I know the creator probably will never come back
17:40:42 <esowiki> [[Backsharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82595&oldid=82430 * Threesodas * (+3) /* IO functionality */
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20:31:49 <zzo38> Will fopencookie be standardized in future? I think that it is useful, and my own library for computing hashes uses it. int fosimp_hash_stream(int alg,FILE*echo,Fosimp_Hash*hash,FILE**fp); There is also the convenience function to wrap it: int fosimp_hash(int alg,const unsigned char*data,size_t len,Fosimp_Hash*hash);
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21:13:42 <esowiki> [[User:1hals/subleq.py]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82596 * 1hals * (+2870) create
21:14:07 <esowiki> [[User:1hals]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82597&oldid=81059 * 1hals * (+42)
21:23:09 <esowiki> [[Backwords]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82598&oldid=81456 * 1hals * (-8) chainge intro paragraph wording
21:28:56 <esowiki> [[Backwords]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82599&oldid=82598 * 1hals * (+99) /* Hello World */ add example
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22:55:05 <zzo38> What about the esolangs?
22:56:01 <zzo38> Yes, but I hoped you would have some more comments than just that
22:59:44 <ItzzMe> theres an esolang for minecraft but not for roblox
23:00:04 <zzo38> If you know how to invent one, you can try to do so.
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23:58:54 <esowiki> [[Talk:Symbols]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82600&oldid=82594 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+203) Reply