←2021-05-21 2021-05-22 2021-05-23→ ↑2021 ↑all
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01:00:15 <esowiki> [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83162&oldid=83161 * Batata * (+48)
01:00:59 <esowiki> [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83163&oldid=83162 * Batata * (+2)
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01:27:38 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think there's about 25% likelihood it will do anything meaningful.
01:28:07 <esowiki> <fizzie> On the other hand, if it does work, it'll be the first time fungot says anything over on this side.
01:28:40 <fizzie> Oh, except it won't, because fungot ignores esowiki for obvious reasons. Heh, didn't think of that.
01:28:40 <fungot> fizzie: i think that honourable members are representatives of the european union, i.e. the problem is not that people are still listening. in those circumstances, as often as is necessary.
01:28:56 <esowiki> <fizzie> Well, it worked indirectly, I guess.
01:30:17 <esowiki> <fizzie> If anyone wants to turn that off for any reason at all, just say "brctl: ignore freenode/*" and "brctl: ignore libera/*", that should stop it from doing anything.
01:31:02 <esowiki> <imode> neeeeat.
01:31:44 <esowiki> <fizzie> I'm sure there's a corner case beyond that of the spam thing that we didn't think of that'll ruin everything.
01:31:53 <esowiki> <fizzie> I should probably check that the logging is still working, at least.
01:33:08 <esowiki> <shachaf> How do I opt out of being bridged?
01:34:47 <int-e> brctl: ignored
01:34:47 <esowiki> brctl: Ignore list: freenode/shachaf libera/shachaf
01:35:21 <esowiki> <int-e> fungot?
01:35:30 <esowiki> <imode> fungooooot.
01:35:31 <fizzie> Yeah, I guess those brctl commands didn't show up on this side. Thinking about these things is hard.
01:35:41 <esowiki> <int-e> oh it will be ignoring esowiki over there
01:35:58 <fizzie> Yeah, you have to invoke it over here, then the replies will be piped over.
01:36:14 <int-e> fungot
01:36:14 <fungot> int-e: mr president, i would also like to say something which the european union, the forests are often the very ones which do actually protect the interests of safety to subject aircraft control and monitoring of that strategy. i am sure that you are right to say that the commission is unwilling to apply this decision retroactively and share the satisfaction of everyone's needs. regarding the recent agreement made over the nex
01:36:49 <esowiki> <imode> so what's the plan for the bridge, are y'all moving to libera or are you maintaining a presence.
01:37:35 <esowiki> <int-e> the resulting logs will not be confusing at all
01:37:41 <nakilon> у / ý / ÿ / ŷ / ƴ / ȳ / ɏ / ỳ / ỹ / ỿ / ẏ / ẙ / ỵ / ỷ
01:37:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> у / ý / ÿ / ŷ / ƴ / ȳ / ɏ / ỳ / ỹ / ỿ / ẏ / ẙ / ỵ / ỷ
01:38:10 <esowiki> <fizzie> As for plans, I don't really know yet for sure. I guess we're kind of exploring the configuration space.
01:39:01 <esowiki> <imode> fair.
01:39:03 <esowiki> <fizzie> There's a little bit of talk at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal#Freenode_and_the_future if you missed that link.
01:39:31 <esowiki> <imode> I had it in my history but haven't checked it.
01:39:40 <esowiki> <fizzie> Not many comments.
01:44:16 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think personally I'd be up for migrating here as the sort of main location, but I don't know how maybe-less-active-right-now-but-still-well-established channel regulars feel.
01:45:56 <esowiki> <nakilon> btw, velik is logging too
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01:53:14 <esowiki> <fizzie> int-e: Re logs, yeah, especially if opting out becomes commonplace. Well, we can give up on the bridge if it gets too much, just couldn't resist.
01:53:59 <esowiki> <fizzie> (Also, the ignore list is just in-memory at this point.)
02:02:32 <esowiki> <pikhq> a bridge, you say
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02:03:40 <user3456> yes, a bridge
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02:04:08 <esowiki> <fizzie> Over troubled water, no doubt.
02:07:46 <esowiki> <fizzie> Hmm, if I turn off windows_auto_renumber, I think I could maybe convince irssi to give the "parallel universe" channels window numbers that are, say, offset by 100 from the ones I'm used to, and that way remember what the numbers mean.
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02:08:38 <esowiki> [[User:AndrewBayly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83164 * AndrewBayly * (+58) Created page with "Hi, I'm Andrew. Here are the esolangs that I have created:"
02:12:44 <esowiki> [[User:AndrewBayly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83165&oldid=83164 * AndrewBayly * (+447)
02:13:21 <esowiki> [[User:AndrewBayly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83166&oldid=83165 * AndrewBayly * (+0)
02:26:54 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fizzie: you can also put multiple channels into the same window if you wish, though you may have to change the formatting to distinguish them then
02:27:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> oh hey, you enabled a bridge to freenode?
02:27:34 <b_jonas> does it work both directions?
02:27:41 <esowiki> <b_jonas> yes it does, jonas
02:29:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> "<fizzie> I'm sure there's a corner case beyond that of the spam thing that we didn't think of that'll ruin everything." => bot loops probably
02:29:39 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah; I don't know if it's a good idea, but it's there for now. At least a cross-network botloop would be somewhat novel.
02:30:44 <esowiki> <fizzie> There's a few "brctl:"-prefixed commands that anyone can use to manage which nicknames are ignored, and as a special case * will match all nicks if you need to turn it off completely and I'm not around.
02:31:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> Taneb: as for OFTC and the +s flag, I believe that's as much of a policy as freenode's ## prefix in channel names
02:31:55 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? log
02:31:57 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​#esoteric channel logs: https://esolangs.org/logs/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/esologs/
02:33:41 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` echo "let's see what the bridge does with long lines. they should just be truncated."; seq 999
02:33:43 <esowiki> <HackEso> let's see what the bridge does with long lines. they should just be truncated. \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ 10 \ 11 \ 12 \ 13 \ 14 \ 15 \ 16 \ 17 \ 18 \ 19 \ 20 \ 21 \ 22 \ 23 \ 24 \ 25 \ 26 \ 27 \ 28 \ 29 \ 30 \ 31 \ 32 \ 33 \ 34 \ 35 \ 36 \ 37 \ 38 \ 39 \ 40 \ 41 \ 42 \ 43 \ 44 \ 45 \ 46 \ 47 \ 48 \ 49 \ 50 \ 51 \ 52 \ 53 \ 54 \ 55 \ 56 \ 57 \ 58 \ 59 \ 60 \ 61 \ 62 \ 63 \ 64 \ 65 \ 66 \ 67 \ 68 \ 69 \ 70 \ 71 \ 72 \ 73 \ 74 \ 75 \ 76 \ 77 \ 78
02:33:43 <esowiki> <int-e> lambdabot: > 1
02:34:21 <esowiki> <int-e> lambdabot: @run 1
02:34:22 <esowiki> <lambdabot> 1
02:34:55 <int-e> lambdabot: @run 2
02:34:56 <lambdabot> 2
02:35:05 <int-e> okay, good.
02:51:19 * b_jonas waves to the bridge
02:51:34 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I guess clients might differ in how they render that
02:55:39 <esowiki> <user3456> .
02:56:08 <esowiki> <user3456> int-e: how did you send that without the bridge forwarding it?
02:59:04 <Sgeo> Why is there a github for logs?
02:59:43 <int-e> `? why
02:59:45 <HackEso> why? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:01:13 <int-e> Sgeo: no particular reason; the attitude is, they're there, they're public, so they should be listed in the topic
03:17:44 <esowiki> <fizzie> The thing with notices is, the client-side presentation is all over the place. Especially in irssi, where they get the channel name for no reason.
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03:18:01 <esowiki> <fizzie> I did consider forwarding them too, though.
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03:18:21 <esowiki> <user3456> In Hexchat, it also shows the channel name
03:18:33 <esowiki> <user3456> like this: [11:01:50] -int-e/##esoteric- that worked
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03:19:42 <esowiki> <alex-resist> https://youtu.be/T0NYZDGTA5g the l0de radio hour is live! IRC's FINEST HOUR, the late night call in show where you are the star! Call in live, tonight's episl0de: A Small White Dog
03:20:16 <esowiki> <fizzie> Well, the first forwarded spam.
03:20:40 <esowiki> <fizzie> Technically all bot replies are supposed to be NOTICEs, and no bot should ever automatically reply to a NOTICE. But nobody actually follows the first half of that. It would entirely prevent botloops, though.
03:21:44 <user3456> At least libera.chat's antispam kicked in
03:22:13 <esowiki> <fizzie> RFC 2812: "The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies MUST NEVER be sent in response to a NOTICE message. -- This is typically used by services, and automatons (clients with either an AI or other interactive program controlling their actions)."
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03:23:12 <esowiki> <int-e> well that went out of the window when mIRC came along, didn't it
03:23:21 <esowiki> <int-e> and turned notices into popups
03:24:31 <esowiki> <shikhin> irssi hilights me on channel wide notices too.
03:24:32 <esowiki> <int-e> (that's probably, and hopefully, no longer the case)
03:25:42 <esowiki> <int-e> shikhin: check the /hilight settings? I'd expect that notices are mentioned somewhere in their explicitely then, but I'm not sure
03:25:47 <esowiki> <int-e> their->there
03:53:17 <esowiki> <d33cee> https://youtu.be/T0NYZDGTA5g the l0de radio hour is live! IRC's FINEST HOUR, the late night call in show where you are the star! Call in live, tonight's episl0de: A Small White Dog
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06:13:06 <esowiki> [[Assign]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83167 * AndrewBayly * (+2258) Created page with "Assign is an esoteric programming language that is a subset of JavaScript. In Assign there are no assignment, increment or decrement operators. ==Strategy== I found that to w..."
06:14:13 <esowiki> [[Assign]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83168&oldid=83167 * AndrewBayly * (+82)
06:15:10 <esowiki> [[User:AndrewBayly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83169&oldid=83166 * AndrewBayly * (+88)
06:20:27 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kwes * New user account
06:21:44 <esowiki> <DCatcher> /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #HAMRADIO /!\
06:23:54 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83170&oldid=83153 * Kwes * (+185)
06:24:29 <esowiki> [[User:Kwes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83171 * Kwes * (+12) Created page with "making stuff"
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06:33:05 <esowiki> [[Yogurt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83172&oldid=83141 * Ilaylevy * (-4)
06:36:27 <esowiki> <imode> I mean. no?
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06:45:40 <esowiki> <myname> i'm a bit confused where those bots come from. like, is it someone from new freenode to annoy people that switched?
06:56:02 <esowiki> <sknebel> it's very similar to previous spam waves... feels like just people who enjoy getting people to react to it
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07:10:09 <esowiki> <keegan> mm, trolls
07:10:37 <esowiki> <keegan> the conspiracist in me thinks all this drama is manufactured to benefit Discord
07:10:46 <esowiki> <keegan> chaos, Discord, confusion, bureaucracy, aftermath
07:11:01 <esowiki> <keegan> also I'm still in freenode #esoteric and it's "fun" to see my messages mirrored there
07:11:09 <kmc> dongs
07:12:39 <esowiki> <myname> Confusion would be a good name for a discord competitor
07:17:59 <esowiki> <keegan> yes
07:18:59 <esowiki> <keegan> i mean one of their major competitors is Slack
07:19:09 <esowiki> <keegan> which I assume is a reference to the Church of the SubGenius, an offshoot of Discordianism
07:19:15 <esowiki> <keegan> which came first I'm not sure
07:19:57 <esowiki> <keegan> but this is one of these "holy shit, the people in my cohort of awkward weird nerds grew up and are running the world now" things
07:20:33 <esowiki> <keegan> meanwhile I briefly worked for an also-ran web chat service based on Zephyr (named Zulip, now open source) and got fired for being depressed before my shares vested
07:20:36 <esowiki> <keegan> c'est la vie.
07:34:40 <esowiki> <vrakfall> /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #HAMRADIO /!\
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07:48:28 <esowiki> <Taneb> <CTCP>ACTION morning!<CTCP>
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08:10:30 <esowiki> <keegan> good morning
08:10:37 <esowiki> <keegan> relay bot not so good with CTCP ACTION
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08:36:01 <esowiki> <Taneb> keegan: how's it going
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08:38:00 <nakilon> fizzie also you can blacklist the "/!\" substring
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09:04:06 <esowiki> <fizzie> keegan: You can opt out from being bridged if you like, by saying "brctl: ignore keegan" on this side.
09:06:10 <esowiki> <fizzie> I'll filter out /!\ though that's pretty specific to this particular spam wave.
09:07:37 <esowiki> <fizzie> I faintly remember some #hamradio-themed spam from time before the split, wonder why that one gets picked on so much.
09:12:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hmmmmmmmm * New user account
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09:19:01 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83173&oldid=83170 * Hmmmmmmmm * (+213) Add my user introduction
09:19:06 <esowiki> [[User:Hmmmmmmmm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83174 * Hmmmmmmmm * (+185) Make my own account page
09:54:07 <nakilon> I'll suspend my twitch IRC analytics project and probably delete my account since they made another post where they continue falsely accusing their users in "hating women" to censor the fact that they became a platform for prostitution
09:57:08 <nakilon> that was the only network where I currently saw the Tags IRC v3 feature
10:01:25 <esowiki> <nakilon> 18:34:24 <fizzie> If IRC had past message editing capabilities, I'd make that thing collapse consecutive edits the same way the recent changes page does.
10:01:59 <esowiki> <nakilon> https://ircv3.net/ - IRCv3 Features - Grouping related messages to simplify collapsing and display of those messages to users.
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10:04:49 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, I saw that mentioned somewhere.
10:14:05 <esowiki> <nakilon> this editing/collapsing stuff changes things a lot
10:14:37 <esowiki> <nakilon> we are used to that if we open the logs we see the same that we see in chat
10:15:18 <esowiki> <nakilon> now we have to add some post processing to convert logs to "real" chat log
10:16:58 <esowiki> <nakilon> and how are we supposed to split logs by days if there was a message collapse over the 00:00
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11:17:10 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * HaleyHalcyon * New user account
11:18:32 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83175&oldid=83173 * HaleyHalcyon * (+233) /* Introductions */
11:22:05 <esowiki> <fizzie> int-e: So I went ahead and had a pre-discussion with Libera staff, and they're okay with the notion of having an 'esolangs' community at #esolangs, but having #esoteric forward to it for "quite some time", which I think probably means "up until a group of aspiring magicians wants to claim it for their rites". I think I'd be happy with that? People can still keep making the jokes on the rare occasion
11:22:11 <esowiki> <fizzie> someone comes in confused.
11:25:46 <esowiki> [[MarioLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83176&oldid=79839 * HaleyHalcyon * (+732) Example added: Truth machine
11:25:56 <esowiki> <fizzie> int-e: So I went ahead and had a pre-discussion with Libera staff, and they're okay with the notion of having an 'esolangs' community at #esolangs, but having #esoteric forward to it for "quite some time", which I think probably means "up until a group of aspiring magicians wants to claim it for their rites". I think I'd be happy with that? People can still keep making the jokes on the rare occasion
11:26:02 <esowiki> <fizzie> someone comes in confused.
11:32:18 <esowiki> [[MarioLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83177&oldid=83176 * HaleyHalcyon * (+269) /* Parts */ Disambiguations
11:32:40 <esowiki> [[MarioLANG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83178&oldid=83177 * HaleyHalcyon * (-2) /* Parts */ Format error
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11:46:00 <esowiki> [[User:HaleyHalcyon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83179 * HaleyHalcyon * (+1753) Created page with "== MarioLANG test cases == The code is run on the sandbox at TIO.run. === Multiple elevators on the same X coordinate === ==== Code ==== > :! "===== > ! ==..."
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11:56:18 <esowiki> <nakilon> do I understand right that it's practically impossible to add a language to https://tio.run/# ? because the last commit I see in their repo 2 years ago and there are hanging pull requests in both repos
12:01:59 <esowiki> <nakilon> it would be nice if there was some frontend for arbitrary languages execution so I would need only provide a backend
12:02:10 <esowiki> <fizzie> I've heard of TIO, but I don't think I've ever actually used it.
12:02:13 <esowiki> <fizzie> Lovely language list, though: probably the first time I've seen Quadrefunge, Quintefunge, Sexefunge and Septefunge mentioned anywhere.
12:02:38 <esowiki> [[User:HaleyHalcyon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83180&oldid=83179 * HaleyHalcyon * (+873) /* MarioLANG test cases */
12:05:57 <esowiki> [[User:HaleyHalcyon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83181&oldid=83180 * HaleyHalcyon * (+120) /* Wall/floor interchangeability */
12:06:25 <esowiki> <nakilon> looks like they were mirroring every language https://github.com/TryItOnline?q=&type=&language=&sort=
12:06:47 <esowiki> [[MarioLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83182&oldid=83178 * HaleyHalcyon * (+74) /* Instructions to Mario */
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12:33:06 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83183&oldid=83115 * Fizzie * (+690) /* Freenode and the future */ On community registration.
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12:38:15 <esowiki> <sknebel> nakilon: I wonder if with webassembly and such it'd be viable to make something like this that doesnt need server resources (outside hosting the files somewhere), runs all the interpreters in the browser
12:40:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> Kind of reminds me of how the Internet Archive has all those old pieces of old software in a playable state by running the emulation in the browser.
12:52:29 <esowiki> <myname> should be easily possible. there are cross compiled linuxes that run entirelyy in browsers
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12:57:16 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fizzie: sure, we can go to #esolangs . it matches the esolangs.org domain name that points to the wiki.
12:57:52 <ksdfj> nakilon: re TIO yeah, the chatroom's starboard https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/44255 explains why
12:58:32 <b_jonas> fungot, what brand of DVD demagnetizer do you recommend?
12:58:33 <fungot> b_jonas: mr president, i should like us to be very significant and important, being adopted in due course should that appear necessary. finally, our obligation, as it sometimes does not immediately become obligatory and an essential service. with regard to these circumstances it is believed that this issue is already covered by the definition of the fields of finance for innovation and growth.
12:59:27 <ksdfj> "it would be nice if there was some frontend for arbitrary languages execution so I would need only provide a backend" you mean you'd be willing to host it?
13:00:04 <ksdfj> i assume the frontend is somewhere in the github
13:00:20 <esowiki> <myname> you mean like llvm?
13:01:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: you could just have it run an interpreter, since you have a high chance that you can find an interpreter ran in a language that TIO can already run
13:01:58 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you may need to do some porting, but probably not more porting than you'd need to do to run the same interpreter in browser client side
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13:06:39 <ksdfj> i recently learnt of a wasm interpreter for k https://ktye.github.io/, for which i believe the author wrote their own c-dialect to wasm converter https://github.com/ktye/i/blob/master/_/i3/w/readme
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14:03:35 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * T0mi10 * New user account
14:07:17 <esowiki> [[Clockwise]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83184&oldid=82736 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+215) Add input, Truth-machine, and cat program
14:10:30 <esowiki> [[Clockwise]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83185&oldid=83184 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-66) /* Examples */ Remove annoying ZWSPs, and prevent them
14:13:01 <esowiki> [[Clockwise]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83186&oldid=83185 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-3) Remove the last ZWSP
14:14:20 <esowiki> [[Clockwise]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83187&oldid=83186 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) /* Commands */ Bangyen's suggestion
14:22:50 <esowiki> <int-e> fizzie: sounds reasonable to me, and about what I'd expect from policy etc.
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15:04:43 <esowiki> <nakilon> b_jonas I mean I just need a frontend for RASEL; don't want to reinvent this webpage with forms and stuff
15:05:42 <esowiki> <nakilon> the backend can be trivially done serverless in Cloud Run
15:06:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> and even moderated call rate via additional layer with a lightweight webserver that would track how often it's being spinned
15:06:53 -!- arseniiv has joined.
15:10:26 <esowiki> <arseniiv> TIL Excel has lambda for some time now
15:10:32 <esowiki> <arseniiv> and let!
15:10:48 <esowiki> <arseniiv> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/blog/lambda-the-ultimatae-excel-worksheet-function
15:11:06 <arseniiv> oh, so bridge is working?
15:15:59 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yep, though I think I'll be moving this end of it to `#esolangs`.
15:16:08 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: I heard about that. I don't think it's a big deal. we always had excel 3 named functions where you just slap the expressions you want to evaluate into cells of a macro worksheet, with possibly local names they assign to, assign a name marked as a macro function to their first cell, and then if you call that function from a formula, it evaluates the cells in order from top to bottom, unless
15:16:14 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you call GOTO or similar functions. there is one serious limitation of course: whe a macro function (which you can call from expressions in cells) is executed, unlike when a macro procedure (which you can't call that way) is executed, most builtins that cause side-effects, such as change the formula of a cell, have their side effects silently suppressed, so it's hard to cause side effects from a macro
15:16:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> function other than changing the values (not the formulas) of the cells of that macro function (other formulas can then refer to those values)
15:17:32 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the main way that macro worksheets differ from normal worksheets btw is that on normal worksheets, all cells have their value recomputed automatcally every time their formula or a cell they recursively depend on changes (you can turn this off, but that's unusual), while in a macro worksheet, cells are evaluated only when a macro is running and its program counter points to that cell
15:18:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> didn't use Excel since like 2012
15:18:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> TODO for self: document esowiki (the bot) on the wiki, especially its ignore statement
15:18:34 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: I said "forever". this existed since the earliest time I've seen Excel.
15:18:57 <esowiki> <nakilon> Google Docs Spreadsheets have Google Apps Script that can do all the calculations and integrate with the rest of Docs and Google services
15:19:38 <esowiki> <arseniiv> interesting, didn’t read anywhere about macro worksheets
15:19:55 <esowiki> <nakilon> not only it allows defining functions, those "macros" can be ran on their own on trigger or schedule, centralised, no edit wars
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15:20:29 <esowiki> <nakilon> people literally run the whole businesses in Spreadsheets with GAS since then
15:20:56 <esowiki> <nakilon> schools, some shops, warehouses
15:21:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: it's not a story the Jedi would tell you
15:21:36 <esowiki> <nakilon> then it got all integrated with Bigdata and other data processing services of Google with bells and whistles
15:22:06 -!- esowiki has joined.
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15:29:32 <esowiki> <fizzie> (Loading configurations without killing the process would be far too bourgeoisie thing to allow.)
15:41:00 <esowiki> <b_jonas> is it bridged?
15:41:11 <b_jonas> yeah it is. funny.
15:41:40 <int-e> semibridge
15:41:45 <esowiki> <cd> where is this bridged
15:41:57 <esowiki> <b_jonas> cd: to freenode/#esoteric
15:42:04 <esowiki> <cd> ah
15:42:24 <esowiki> <cd> `ping
15:42:27 <esowiki> <HackEso> pong
15:43:24 <esowiki> <int-e> <CTCP>ACTION weeps for #esoteric<CTCP>
15:47:16 <esowiki> <fizzie> `` (quote '#esoteric'; grWp '#esoteric') | wc -l # int-e: at least we'll still have all these references for who knows how long
15:47:17 <esowiki> <HackEso> 56
15:50:27 <esowiki> <river> how about cloaks
15:50:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `env
15:50:30 <esowiki> <HackEso> PATH=/hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ TERM=linux \ HOME=/tmp \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ IRC_NICK=b_jonas \ IRC_IDENT=~x \ IRC_HOST=catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu \ IRC_COMMAND=PRIVMSG \ IRC_TARGET=#esolangs \ IRC_MESSAGE=`env \ http_proxy= \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8
15:50:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> yes, we're on #esolangs now
15:50:42 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:51:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> is esoteric deprecated?
15:51:19 <esowiki> <b_jonas> of course, as fizzie said, the move won't officially be official until we edit https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal
15:52:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> and we might want to wait until the admins get an official webchat working, rather than using kiwi
15:53:05 <esowiki> <cd> <CTCP>ACTION stops munching on kiwi and hides the skins<CTCP>
15:53:08 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the name "libera" still sounds stupid to me because it sounds like the diaper brand "Libero"
15:53:10 <esowiki> <cd> hm? kiwi? what kiwi
15:53:43 <esowiki> <fizzie> For the community registration, what I have is a "verbal" ack (plus settings for this channel), I've not gotten a reply yet to the formal email. So we might wait for that as well.
15:53:59 <esowiki> <wib_jonas> cd: https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat
15:54:12 <esowiki> <cd> <CTCP>ACTION knows what kiwiirc is<CTCP>
15:54:21 <esowiki> <fizzie> I can't use kiwi, I'm slightly allergic. :/
15:54:23 <esowiki> <cd> <CTCP>ACTION was making a bad joke<CTCP>
15:54:37 <esowiki> <Taneb> <CTCP>ACTION is here noow also<CTCP>
15:55:20 <esowiki> <nakilon> kiwi is for guests
15:55:28 <esowiki> <nakilon> you don't have to use it
15:55:31 <esowiki> <fizzie> Should've taught that bridge about CTCP ACTION while I was mucking with it.
15:56:18 <esowiki> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83188&oldid=83003 * Tomhe * (+13) /* Bit-specific */ Bit-specific changed to Words-value (aligned syntax update).
15:56:57 <esowiki> <nakilon> guys, does /whois show my "Actual hostname" for you?
15:57:18 <esowiki> <fizzie> Not to me.
15:57:50 <esowiki> <nakilon> okay, since I see that field and could not be sure
15:58:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, the irc server tells you your real hostname even while you're cloaked, because you're inside the cloak
15:58:41 <esowiki> <nakilon> this sounds awful
15:59:12 <esowiki> <nakilon> because клоака is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaca
16:01:25 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it's a physical constraint. if you wanted to see your cloak, you would have to move your eyes outside the cloak, and then people could see your eyes.
16:02:48 <esowiki> <b_jonas> if you still want that, make another connection to the server
16:03:11 <esowiki> <cd> uh can't you just
16:03:14 <esowiki> <cd> ask nickserv
16:03:20 <esowiki> <river> cd ..
16:03:25 <esowiki> <cd> `/msg nickserv info USERNAME HERE`
16:03:26 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​/msg? No such file or directory
16:03:35 <esowiki> <river> fungot
16:03:37 <esowiki> <river> fungot: asd
16:03:39 <esowiki> <cd> river: /home/> _
16:04:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> cd: you could ask HackEso
16:04:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` echo "$IRC_HOST"
16:04:27 <esowiki> <HackEso> catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu
16:04:33 <esowiki> <cd> true
16:04:34 <esowiki> <fizzie> Oh, right, fungot. Hmm.
16:05:05 <esowiki> <fizzie> I guess I should keep it on the side that has more people planning to use it, which might be this one.
16:05:11 <esowiki> <b_jonas> cd: or /msg perlbot arg &h
16:05:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you can ask any sufficiently powerful bot
16:05:29 <esowiki> <cd> "Fungot is missing!", a hit educational game for the SNES.
16:05:36 <esowiki> <Taneb> Can you run multiple Fungotia?
16:06:08 <esowiki> <fizzie> Almost. I'd just need to never run ^save on one of them, or configure different state files.
16:06:20 <esowiki> <fizzie> But I don't know if the world is ready for more than one fungot.
16:06:20 <esowiki> <nakilon> don't let funge start growing
16:06:32 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I don't think we are ready for that
16:07:43 <esowiki> <nakilon> I wonder if there were IRC viruses
16:07:57 <esowiki> <nakilon> that find bots with backdoors to replicate
16:08:08 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: there were at least malware, not necessarily virus
16:08:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: not targeting bots, but very buggy IRC clients
16:08:33 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perhaps also targeting bots, I'm not sure
16:08:53 <esowiki> <fizzie> Eggdrop was so popular, I'm sure there must've been a vulnerability in there somewhere.
16:08:54 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I guess you could find some of the bot loops viruses
16:09:15 <esowiki> <cd> i still wonder how fast a bot that's programmed to join any channel mentioned near it would spread across a network
16:09:21 -!- fungot has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me).
16:10:12 <esowiki> <nakilon> perhaps there is a limit of channels you can join
16:10:21 <esowiki> <cd> there is, i forget what it is
16:10:23 <esowiki> <fizzie> `CHANLIMIT=#:250`
16:10:24 <esowiki> <HackEso> CHANLIMIT=#:250`? No such file or directory
16:10:30 <esowiki> <cd> but it's pretty high and you could simply open a new connection
16:10:50 <esowiki> <fizzie> Not sure if it's that specific limit, I just had the connection-open numerics from fungot's debug screen.
16:10:50 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: how come there's a 3rd arguement now? http://mumble.net/campbell/ tmp/ restrict.html for what i need
16:11:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> cd: you could just use alis to find channels
16:11:33 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it's not all channels, because channels can be hidden from that, but still
16:11:37 <esowiki> <cd> yes, but i meant what i asked
16:11:38 <esowiki> <cd> :P
16:11:56 <esowiki> <b_jonas> well let's see
16:11:57 <esowiki> <nakilon> while I was tracking twitch I had an idea to note the raids after the stream (that's a thing when streamer leaves and moves all his viewers to some another stream, keeping the audience within the website and making a social connetion with a selected target in that way)
16:12:29 <esowiki> <nakilon> so it would be possible to slowly build a graph of people who tend to raid each other
16:13:48 <esowiki> <int-e> . o O ( Streamers who raided X also raided Y and Z. )
16:14:09 <esowiki> <nakilon> is alis here too?
16:14:28 <esowiki> <int-e> yes there's an alis
16:15:03 <esowiki> <fizzie> I made a "who's having an affair with who" chart for a... well, let's call it a forum, once, based on people mentioning the names of other members.
16:15:06 <esowiki> <int-e> Less obviously, Sigyn is ozone, eir is litharge.
16:15:29 <esowiki> <fizzie> Someone's name was a pretty common word, they got an edge with everyone in the graph.
16:15:38 <esowiki> <cd> lmao
16:15:39 <esowiki> <fizzie> GraphViz was having problems rendering it, but that's not a surprise.
16:16:10 <esowiki> <b_jonas> let's speed up its bootstrapping. dear bot who joins every channel mentioned, please JOIN
16:16:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ##chat,##electronics,##hardware,##math,##politics,##programming,#ansible,#bash,#bitcoin,#c,#C++,#centos,#datahoarder,#debian,#elixir,#emacs,#fedora,#freebsd,#gentoo,#gentoo-chat,#git,#go-nuts,#guix,#hamradio,#haskell,#idleRPG,#ircv3,#irssi,#javascript,#libera,#libera-dev,#libera-offtopic,#libera-overflow,#lineageos,#linux,#lisp,#lobsters,#matrix,#musl,#networking,#nixos,#openbsd,#osdev,#perl,#postgresql,
16:16:19 <esowiki> <b_jonas> #python,#raspberrypi,#reddit-sysadmin,#reprap,#rockylinux,#security,#sway,#thelongue,#ubuntu,#vim,#voidlinux,#weechat,#wikimedia-operations,#wikipedia-en,#windows,#zig,#znc
16:16:50 <esowiki> <cd> i'd write such a bot but i feel i'd make the admins annoyed with me
16:20:11 <esowiki> <arseniiv> it’s a bit interesting that all ideal triangles are congruent
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16:22:01 <esowiki> <arseniiv> noncongruence starts with quadrilaterals in dimension 2, though I suspect non-planar quadrilaterals are again all congruent?..
16:22:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> cd: you'd have to make it leave channels that are almost empty or else your join quota will fill up quickly
16:27:18 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `python3 -cprint("#,"+",".join(["#%c" % k for k in range(33,126) if k != 44]))
16:27:19 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​#,#!,#",##,#$,#%,#&,#',#(,#),#*,#+,#-,#.,#/,#0,#1,#2,#3,#4,#5,#6,#7,#8,#9,#:,#;,#<,#=,#>,#?,#@,#A,#B,#C,#D,#E,#F,#G,#H,#I,#J,#K,#L,#M,#N,#O,#P,#Q,#R,#S,#T,#U,#V,#W,#X,#Y,#Z,#[,#\,#],#^,#_,#`,#a,#b,#c,#d,#e,#f,#g,#h,#i,#j,#k,#l,#m,#n,#o,#p,#q,#r,#s,#t,#u,#v,#w,#x,#y,#z,#{,#|,#}
16:28:35 <esowiki> <cd> i own #1, it is the best channel
16:28:42 <esowiki> <Taneb> cd: I had a friend who wrote a program that just... repeatedly instantiated a new bot that'd connect and joing a particular channel.
16:28:54 <esowiki> <Taneb> They got to about 20 before a staff member joined and told them to stop
16:28:57 <esowiki> <cd> lol
16:28:58 <esowiki> <Taneb> (this was pre-2017 freenode)
16:29:13 <esowiki> <cd> well yea if you're making that many connections someone's gonna notice aha
16:29:26 <esowiki> <int-e> cd: you need #one as well, and #uno etc.
16:30:31 <esowiki> <cd> That would be channel hoarding
16:30:34 <esowiki> <cd> so nah
16:30:57 <esowiki> <int-e> just trying to help *d&r*
16:31:56 <esowiki> <b_jonas> Taneb: freenode has some limit on how many clients can connect from one address, and they even have some [A-Z]line feature that gives excemption from that for heavily NATted addresses like convention centers or universities
16:32:31 <esowiki> <b_jonas> at least one Ircnet server has a rule of at most three connections per host
16:32:40 <esowiki> <b_jonas> though of course this gets more complicated with ipv6
16:34:28 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the usual workaround for spammers is to buy a botnet made of a large number of random people's home computers acquired via vulnerabilities
16:38:01 <esowiki> <cd> yea, i-lines
16:38:17 <esowiki> <cd> @hellomouse.net had one on freenode as we have a bouncer. We need to get that back
16:40:07 <esowiki> <V> fizzie: bridged to wherems't?
16:40:13 <esowiki> <V> oho
16:40:19 <V> to here.
16:45:24 <V> brctl: ignored
16:45:24 <esowiki> brctl: Ignore list: freenode/shachaf libera/shachaf
16:45:28 <V> what
16:46:09 <fizzie> I'm guessing the libera side has just lost the connection or something.
16:46:55 <b_jonas> does it still bridge?
16:51:16 <esowiki> <arseniiv> what do you think?
16:55:10 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ooh, esolangs1. let's see if it will loop with the other esolangs
16:55:19 <b_jonas> hey esolangs1, loop
16:55:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nope
16:58:59 <esowiki> <b_jonas> so fungot, you're here now? what brand of DVD demagnetizer would you recommend?
16:59:00 <esowiki> <fungot`> b_jonas: thank you, and perhaps helped by the house, calls for a dual legal basis before the court of justice against this untimely change. no-one, neither the european parliament. you were asked to work to establish the partnership was still pending.
17:00:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> yeah, I guessed you wouldn't give a straight answer. in that case, fungot, what features should I pay attention to when I buy a DVD demagnetizer?
17:00:23 <esowiki> <fungot`> b_jonas: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, i will be coming onto the market products that could compete with those now circulating on the internal market. in some respects even improves on the commission to establish a policy that undermines the quality of legislation and the consequence therefore is, if we go back to two points here. first of all, only one additional country has come on board.
17:02:15 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I see, fungot. you emphasize the difference between ones produced locally and east asian knockoffs
17:02:15 <esowiki> <fungot`> b_jonas: mr president, i will be speaking about these further in our committees, in full or in part.
17:02:21 <esowiki> <b_jonas> very good
17:02:31 <esowiki> <cd> this network had lead to some fun things
17:02:34 <esowiki> <cd> https://thelounge.hellomouse.net/uploads/cd24a5123916a651/image.png
17:04:10 <esowiki> <fizzie> That's how it should've responded.
17:04:30 <esowiki> <fizzie> (If you don't *want* it to ignore you, feel free to undo it with unignore.)
17:05:08 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, a lot of clients ping-timeouted at the same time.
17:05:36 <esowiki> <fizzie> Also poor old little fungot got a ` growing on it.
17:05:36 <esowiki> <fungot`> fizzie: mr president, a lot fewer trees, some 140 million. that trend is the same as any other beef in europe.
17:05:50 <esowiki> <fizzie> That's a lot of trees.
17:06:15 <esowiki> <arseniiv> dear fungot what do you thing of ideal tesselations and all that?
17:06:15 <esowiki> <fungot> arseniiv: mr president-in-office, if the house adopts these amendments, we will always be relative to our dependence and reliance on nato which still owns the essential military hardware and which enabled us to develop the criteria relating to its independence and its considerable competence in issues that are sensitive for the european political institutions during the past months. these men were put behind bars, although the
17:06:47 <esowiki> <fizzie> A consummate politician, never a clear answer.
17:07:04 <esowiki> <fizzie> Except that one time.
17:07:07 <esowiki> <arseniiv> I can’t even parse it completely
17:07:55 <esowiki> <arseniiv> these men were put behind bars => I see cell borders here. I think fungot is perfectly aware what was asked of them
17:07:56 <esowiki> <fungot> arseniiv: mr president, i would also like to thank you, first of all about the allocation. regarding parliament's team itself, we still believe that coordination, cooperation and shared responsibility, whereby all those involved for the last two years, so we cannot blame the commission) is also necessary to be able to get down to finalising at the earliest.
17:08:27 <esowiki> <bi> `ls
17:08:28 <esowiki> <HackEso> a.out \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ bin \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ egel-master \ egel-scripts \ egel.zip \ eGtbSgN68aHU \ just \ karma \ le \ olist.new \ output.b \ paste \ pd \ pd.c \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ this.py \ tmp \ wisdomls.txt
17:08:46 <esowiki> <arseniiv> well, I’m certainly not the one who allocated the space for fun​got
17:10:10 <esowiki> <arseniiv> fungot: and at last, do you know any religious hymnes and do you recite them in evening?
17:10:10 <esowiki> <fungot> arseniiv: mr president, the wto negotiations and with a view to its full extent if it wishes to integrate? also, may i begin by reminding you that i cannot give you the following: could we not express our disappointment? the scope of the programme.
17:10:36 <esowiki> <arseniiv> okay so they don’t recite
17:13:16 <esowiki> <arseniiv> also that ideal polygon tesselation proves we can easily represent any free group on finite generators via hyperbolic motions: for n generators, just take a tesselation into regular ideal (2n)-gons
17:13:54 <esowiki> <arseniiv> no having to include one free group in a two-generator one
17:14:25 <esowiki> <arseniiv> how easy!
17:14:45 -!- TheLie has joined.
17:14:47 <esowiki> <arseniiv> int-e: b_jonas: you might have been interested ↑
17:16:16 <esowiki> <arseniiv> I mean, b_jonas might have already said something like that last time, but then I didn’t understand completely
17:16:19 <esowiki> <cd> fizzie: What's fungot licensed as, when it comes to using/modifying it?
17:16:19 <esowiki> <fungot> cd: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i only got to see the financial resources for this programme is important because we need them to understand each other well. as regards the international conferences we have been obliged, with the agreement of any substance. i can assure the honourable member will surely agree, this is a form of development. i would like to single out the last initiative of the british authorities were m
17:16:41 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: yes, tha'ts what I tried to say at https://esolangs.org/logs/2021-05.html#ldI
17:17:01 <esowiki> <\a> fizzie, What is the license of fungot?
17:17:01 <esowiki> <fungot> \a: mr president, since the long march, and it is now the essential question, a philosophical choice. europe will continue to press the council of ministers will adopt them.
17:17:09 <esowiki> <cd> i already asked aha
17:17:45 <esowiki> <cd> fungot has great answers to our questions. What is the meaning of life, fungot?
17:17:45 <esowiki> <fungot> cd: madam president, i should say that my group believes that the lack of safe access for relief agencies to people in a country with disastrous social conditions in which those who have been able to reach agreement on the reform of the commission in agenda 2000 will further increase the speed of technological advance, narrow consumer choice, increase the capacity of economies to adapt to the new member states can always introd
17:17:53 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: I glad to see that now; thanks nonetheless
17:17:56 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: the illustrations are under https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Infinite-order_tilings
17:18:07 <esowiki> <fizzie> cd: \a: Heh. Yeah, looks like I never actually chose. Let's say MIT for the code, and I'll look at updating the repository to reflect that.
17:18:22 <esowiki> <cd> sounds good
17:18:36 <esowiki> <fizzie> The language models aren't publicly available anywhere, though.
17:18:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fungot's code size is so small that the license text might take up a significant part of the shirt
17:18:52 <esowiki> <fungot> b_jonas: madam president, commissioner, you will note is specifically referred to in the question of comitology. this is partly explained by hizbollah’s outrageous tactic of using human stem cells to achieve the objectives in the field of homeopathic medicine.
17:19:50 <esowiki> <fizzie> It's actually just the babble generation subsection (lines 129-173 of fungot.b98) that's on the shirt.
17:19:51 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: thank you for the opportunity to read the information. against this background, the commission, in order to solve them effectively. how, moreover, i feel that the message and practice stemming from laeken are contradictory. they are now lying there during the winter, when orders decline, this credit on their working procedures or, as in portugal and poland for instance, paragraph 4, the commission is full of enthusiasm
17:20:19 <esowiki> <\a> The MIT license is quite small
17:21:29 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: thanks. I came to the idea by drawing a sketch of {4, ∞}, precisely!
17:22:29 <esowiki> <arseniiv> fizzie: wait where do one finds such a shirt?
17:23:05 <esowiki> <fizzie> arseniiv: I just got one printed at one of those "you upload a .jpg, we email you a shirt" places, I had a free code for one.
17:23:12 <esowiki> <arseniiv> can’t express how I love the conformal disk model
17:23:14 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think I've got the specific .jpg online somewhere, let's see.
17:23:38 <esowiki> <arseniiv> I wonder how it looks on a real shirt though :)
17:23:54 <esowiki> <fizzie> Actually, what I had online is a photo of the real shirt, so you're in luck.
17:23:57 <esowiki> <arseniiv> or do they show shirt mock-ups?
17:23:58 <esowiki> <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/fungotshirt.jpg
17:23:58 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: firstly, i should like to illustrate this link by referring to oil, as ' integral elements of european policy, is a situation that we have a unanimous report from the relevant committee.
17:24:19 <esowiki> <arseniiv> fizzie: neat!
17:24:26 <esowiki> <fizzie> It's an immediate conversation starter for sure.
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17:25:37 <esowiki> <fizzie> Also, I guess in theory if you're wearing it and don't know what to say to something, you could run it in your head to generate a reply.
17:25:38 <esowiki> <b_jonas> yeah, there's a nice visible jump table
17:25:43 <esowiki> <arseniiv> personally I have yet to wear any custom-printed tee, just doesn’t seem that urgent
17:26:20 <esowiki> <arseniiv> <fizzie> Also, I guess in theory if you're wearing it and don't know what to say to something, you could run it in your head to generate a reply. => lool. But you’d need a model loaded somewhere too, though
17:26:29 <esowiki> <arseniiv> and it should be enormous
17:26:37 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, maybe keep one around as a printed book.
17:26:47 <esowiki> <arseniiv> rofl
17:28:12 -!- tromp has joined.
17:29:12 <esowiki> <b_jonas> or wear one of these crocheted hyperbolic planes as a skirt, they're fast to random access because you can draw a complete binary tree on them
17:29:22 <esowiki> <b_jonas> no need to mess with slowly seeking sectors like on a hard drive
17:30:38 <esowiki> <b_jonas> of course the linear seeking of a flat shirt is suitable for befunge code
17:30:46 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: how is a euclidean skirt lesser for this purpose? Eventually you’ll need a microscope but is that that big an issue?
17:33:51 <esowiki> <arseniiv> hm there is a chance of hyperbolic fungeoid out there. One could use those inclusions of n-generator free groups and extend programs by reimagining them as using a free group with more generators as a grid
17:34:11 <esowiki> <cd> hyperbolic fungoid would be... interesting
17:34:21 <esowiki> <cd> for one how would you reference memory, grid coordinates don't work anymore
17:34:33 <esowiki> <b_jonas> cd: there are coordinates usable for hyperbolic plane
17:34:43 <esowiki> <arseniiv> yep!
17:34:50 <esowiki> <Taneb> How would you write the program
17:35:03 <esowiki> <fizzie> The Funge-98 Lahey-space is pretty funky on its own, even if it may look like a plane when you don't consider the wrapping.
17:36:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> some people would use a specialized editor, just like they now do for writing Java programs, other people would just use C-x M-c M-butterfly , because it's still represented as a sequence of bytes
17:36:04 <esowiki> <arseniiv> we can even make arbitrary jumps like unfamous logo turtle would: (1) rotate in place a rational multiple of 2π and (2) go a rational amount in your current direction
17:36:34 <esowiki> <keegan> meow
17:36:37 <esowiki> <keegan> is this the cool place to be
17:36:42 <esowiki> <arseniiv> we can afford a countable set of jump/rotate instructions just for this insanity
17:36:55 <esowiki> <Taneb> keegan: no, this is a channel full of weird nerds
17:37:02 <esowiki> <cd> lol taneb
17:37:08 <esowiki> <cd> i am not weird
17:37:09 <esowiki> <cd> i am cd
17:37:18 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: just use a finite generator
17:37:39 <esowiki> <Taneb> Weird nerds and a circular object that stores data
17:38:08 <esowiki> <keegan> weird nerds are cool
17:38:11 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: hm in the end we’ll be able to unify all that inside some finite-generator free group, yeah, though only if the program is finite
17:38:12 <esowiki> <keegan> furthermore, i am a weird nerd
17:38:21 <esowiki> <Taneb> keegan: well then, this must be the cool place to be
17:38:28 <esowiki> <keegan> ergo de facto
17:38:51 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: no, I mean a finite generator for finitely many rotate/jump instructions
17:39:00 <esowiki> <river> is it possible that zzo will join this irc channel?
17:39:19 <esowiki> <keegan> meow
17:39:31 <esowiki> <Taneb> river: it's certainly concievable
17:39:41 <esowiki> <Taneb> But who knows what zzo will do
17:39:45 <esowiki> <keegan> zzo will probably make his own irc network based on gopher or something
17:40:08 <esowiki> <fizzie> Well, we'll build a bridge to it when that happens.
17:40:34 <esowiki> <keegan> I learned the other day that Gopher is named for the mascot of the university where it was invented (University of Minnesota), in addition to being maybe a pun on "go for"
17:40:58 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: yeah that’s what I read; but that’s equivalent for a program being finite, as it’ll be able to use only finitely many instructions. But I think it’ll be good to allow any rational rotations and translations in general
17:41:15 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: no no
17:41:39 <esowiki> <arseniiv> s/for/to
17:43:06 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you'd allow the program to span a potentially unlimited part of a grid on the hyperbolic plane, just as saner fungeoids do on the euclidean plane. euclidean fungoids only need a few jump builtins too.
17:44:38 <esowiki> <imode> oh hey, neat, you got the forward.
17:46:21 <esowiki> <b_jonas> imode: fizzie did that. "just couldn't resist", he said. I knew it was the #esoteric thing to do.
17:47:35 <esowiki> <imode> thumbs-up from me.
17:48:44 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it'll probably only stay for a transitional period, then we'll just stabilize on one network, but still
17:48:47 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it's fun
17:50:03 <esowiki> <arseniiv> uh those NickServ shenanigans
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17:58:47 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: they can help too, sure
17:58:59 <esowiki> <b_jonas> isn't his name "fungot" though?
17:59:00 <esowiki> <fungot> b_jonas: unfortunately, recent employment statistics for the whole of europe, is a most serious precedent that i would like, however, that development is undertaken in other areas. in july last year on behalf of the european parliament wants an interinstitutional agreement, the commission has not done for years.
17:59:20 <esowiki> <arseniiv> <b_jonas> isn't his name "fungot" though? => both first and last?
17:59:20 <esowiki> <fungot> arseniiv: mr president, first of all, i would like to say how glad i am not in a very striking way something that is absolutely clear; and we must equally ensure that there is annoyance and disappointment over the commission, by the european union
17:59:42 <esowiki> <arseniiv> though hm of course it will be both first and last if it’s just a single one
18:00:12 <esowiki> <arseniiv> > map ($ ["fungot"]) [first, last]
18:00:13 <esowiki> <fungot> arseniiv: mr president, of course, but this should be accompanied by an assessment of whether this sum really makes up for deficiencies in the actual texts of regulations relating to the situation prior to harmonisation. amendment no 3
18:00:20 <esowiki> <arseniiv> nooo
18:01:15 -!- arseniiv has joined.
18:01:51 <arseniiv> > map ($ ["fungot"]) [first, last]
18:01:51 <esowiki> <fungot> esolangs1: mr president, i should like to start by expressing my total support for an exceptional report and for the quality of bathing water quality, taking account of the obstacles which deny children access to a mother or father indeed, to make proposals for upward harmonisation of tobacco taxation. the point of view.
18:01:52 <lambdabot> error:
18:01:52 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match type ‘a b’ with ‘[]’
18:01:52 <lambdabot> Expected type: [[Char]] -> a (b, d) ([Char], d)
18:02:09 <esowiki> <b_jonas> did you guys know there are online card payment providers that don't accept name ("exactly as it's on written on the card") with accented letter, and I have a card with an accented letter in my name embossed?
18:02:20 <esowiki> <fizzie> Whoops, not ignoring the bridge when it's got its altnick on.
18:03:59 <esowiki> <fizzie> int-e: Oh, right. When you're not busy, there's an obvious lambdabot deficiency here.
18:04:20 <arseniiv> > let first = head in map ($ ["fung​ot"]) [first, last]
18:04:21 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:34: error:
18:04:21 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '\8203'
18:04:32 <arseniiv> > let first = head in map ($ ["fungot"]) [first, last]
18:04:32 <esowiki> <fungot> esolangs1: mr president, on the fnord. the terrorists dragged him over the last two years.
18:04:34 <lambdabot> ["fungot","fungot"]
18:04:34 <esowiki> <fungot> esolangs1: madam president, i have a number of regional meetings with representatives of the presidency.
18:04:42 -!- arseniiv has quit (Client Quit).
18:05:30 <esowiki> <int-e> fizzie: mmm, obvious?
18:05:43 <b_jonas> [ 'jevalbot is still here, isn't it?'
18:05:44 <j-bot> b_jonas: |open quote
18:05:44 <j-bot> b_jonas: | 'jevalbot is still here, isn't it?'
18:05:44 <j-bot> b_jonas: | ^
18:05:51 <esowiki> <arseniiv> <b_jonas> did you guys know there are online card payment providers that don't accept name ("exactly as it's on written on the card") with accented letter, and I have a card with an accented letter in my name embossed? => didn’t know they allow non-ASCII latin there
18:06:17 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I can't prove it because I obviously won't show a photo of my embossed credit card
18:06:28 <esowiki> <arseniiv> no I believe perfectly
18:06:53 <esowiki> <fizzie> int-e: Well, obvious in the sense that someone tried to use it but it wasn't here.
18:07:27 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the bank's homepage shows example credit card images, but they look fake, not real photos of credit cards
18:07:33 -!- Sgeo has joined.
18:07:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> Maybe that's not quite the right adjective. Blatant? Something.
18:07:51 <esowiki> <int-e> fizzie: I don't know what to look for.
18:08:15 <esowiki> <arseniiv> over here, they transliterate to ASCII latin and do that quite liberally. I bet й and ий have more than two transliterations there in the wild. There were standards on that but not a single one and almost always they seem to be ignored
18:09:03 <esowiki> <fizzie> int-e: I mean, if I wasn't clear -- it's just not on this channel, it's on the deprecated one.
18:09:23 <esowiki> <int-e> fizzie: ah!
18:09:38 <esowiki> <fizzie> (Also was that > prefix thing special too? I don't know for sure.)
18:09:48 <esowiki> <int-e> "it" in "use it" referred to the bot as a whole, not to a particular feature that was missing
18:10:07 <esowiki> <arseniiv> imagine you can end up with ы and й transliterated the same (as y). Though it is the ambiguity that’s worse, as sometimes the card transliteration should for some reason match with transliterations in other places, or something. And you need to somehow control that the bureaucrats match them :D
18:10:49 <esowiki> <keegan> 11:06 < b_jonas> I can't prove it because I obviously won't show a photo of my embossed credit card
18:10:52 <esowiki> <keegan> you could redact the number
18:11:00 <esowiki> <keegan> just make sure to actually cover it with a black box or something
18:11:04 <esowiki> <keegan> rather than blurring or pixelating
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18:11:20 <esowiki> <keegan> I don't think most people realize how easily you can recover even heavily blurred or pixelated text if you have a strong prior
18:11:51 <esowiki> <keegan> and 16 digits with known spacing and font is a very strong prior
18:12:06 <esowiki> <arseniiv> keegan: yep usually it’s a gaussian blur or something alike
18:12:07 <esowiki> <fizzie> Someone had just failed redacting a PDF with the usual thing (opaque black box drawn on top, original data not removed), I thought nobody was really doing that anymore.
18:12:23 <esowiki> <int-e> fizzie: a Zen variation of not seeing the forest for the trees... there were no trees
18:12:24 <esowiki> <fizzie> I don't remember where, some piece of local government maybe.
18:12:28 <esowiki> <river> whats your unique ID?
18:13:32 <esowiki> <b_jonas> keegan: I refuse
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18:13:57 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I do redact some photos, like ones with people's faces, but I won't do that in this case
18:14:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> I know I should consider myself lucky for having an ASCII-only name, but I miss out on all these stories.
18:14:46 <esowiki> <int-e> fizzie: . o O ( When I said "send it electronically" I meant it to be printed and faxed, not sent by email! )
18:15:38 <esowiki> <keegan> i have an ascii name too
18:15:39 <esowiki> <cd> fizzie: Where might one find fungot-compatible models? :P
18:15:39 <esowiki> <fungot> cd: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, in his opinion, regretted that fewer and fewer borders in international crime. according to the rule of law; the european initiative for democracy and human rights.
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18:16:25 <esowiki> <keegan> we are having a baby in about 15 weeks and are still deciding about names but we have decided firmly on using the printable ASCII subset (no NULs or BELs)
18:16:28 <esowiki> <keegan> my surname has a non-initial capital, which a lot of systems drop, but it hasn't caused me problems
18:16:34 <esowiki> <fizzie> cd: You might consider training some of your own. There's step-by-step instructions at https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/varikn/readme.txt for the "modern" training method.
18:16:34 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: mr president, i would like to convey my objections at least, to that year and thus during the previous magps, which compensated for any reduction in working hours will help to create or improve counselling and legal advice centres which will be to report on their activities, for it is undoubtedly the case that if there is a wider rural world than farming and tourism development. this means that we have all made every ef
18:17:10 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ooh, I might look at that. thanks, fizzie
18:17:10 <esowiki> <arseniiv> keegan: (no NULs or BELs) => consoling
18:17:22 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fizzie: aren't ASCII-only names the majority in Finland?
18:17:47 <esowiki> <fizzie> I've never uploaded the pre-baked ones anywhere. I guess a lot of them are based on public materials, but maybe there's an ethics question in there somewhere too, cloning an AI vs. growing a new one in a similar environment, I don't know.
18:17:47 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I don't think it's something you need to consider lucky
18:18:09 <esowiki> <fizzie> b_jonas: It might be a majority, but it's not a huge majority, ä and ö are pretty common in names.
18:18:15 <esowiki> <keegan> wifey and I have different surnames so that complicates things too
18:18:22 <esowiki> <fizzie> I mean, it might be a 90% majority or something, but not like orders-of-magnitude majority.
18:19:07 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I imagine it could get funnier if you have a name with rare letters, and a bank official can't type it
18:19:37 <esowiki> <fizzie> There's a lot of mojibake in snailmail from abroad, at least.
18:19:45 <esowiki> <fizzie> (Based on friends' experiences.)
18:19:59 <esowiki> <cd> I'll have to find some good materials to bae it on
18:20:01 <esowiki> <cd> *base
18:20:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, it's funny when shops in china can't correctly print non-ascii letters on the address stickers of mail
18:20:56 <esowiki> <fizzie> A friend of mine who moved to Australia has also been having trouble with his last name (two ä's), because different pieces of officialdom insist on spelling it differently, and then complain about mismatches.
18:21:02 <esowiki> <arseniiv> <b_jonas> I imagine it could get funnier if you have a name with rare letters, and a bank official can't type it => Ʌşŧȣλð Mŋödøczeς
18:21:02 <esowiki> <keegan> still amazed by https://celebraterickysargulesh.tumblr.com/post/31917763793/wizardishungry-an-image-of-a-post-envelope-with
18:21:27 <esowiki> <b_jonas> there are some short street names that are almost impossible to guess from the mangled addresses
18:22:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: what is that?
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18:32:40 <esowiki> <b_jonas> they're supposed to be real names in universe, but I think he deliberately avoids real names out of universe to avoid offending someone real
18:33:03 <esowiki> <arseniiv> (still about the Polish one: we should probably ask kspalaiologos about what tsch-letter is correct, I don’t know at all how do they differ. Maybe one of them was for a hard ch and the other for the soft one)
18:33:07 <esowiki> <fizzie> I'm guessing Myyntti Raatalla is mock-Finnish, and that's just so bad when it comes to phoneme durations. "Myntti Raattala" you could have. In fact, I think Raattala is a real surname.
18:34:03 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: I think I might have heard about that polka from a friend, he translated it to some language IIRC
18:34:31 <esowiki> <b_jonas> part of the in-universe story is about a person who wants to change their surname
18:35:47 <esowiki> <b_jonas> we have that list analyzed in a few points of #esoteric logs. I think it even got changed to better represent the languages of regulars.
18:36:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> which is why it doesn't have any spanish or portugese names by the way
18:36:11 <esowiki> <b_jonas> because we don't consider the Canaima guys regulars
18:37:27 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83189&oldid=82647 * EnilKoder * (+14) added John Conway to the list of deaths in the comment of unimplemented ideas
18:39:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> though I guess we should add a russian name to it now
18:40:17 <esowiki> <fizzie> Huh, I always thought those names were a reflection of which languages are available in the thing.
18:40:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` words --help
18:40:31 <esowiki> <HackEso> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger datasets more influential \ -o, --target-offset change the target length offset used in the \
18:40:34 <esowiki> <fizzie> `words -l
18:40:35 <esowiki> <HackEso> valid datasets: --brazilian --bulgarian --canadian-english-insane --catalan --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --esolangs --finnish --french --gaelic --german --german-medical --hebrew --irish --italian --manx --norwegian --ogerman --opcode --pokemon --polish --portuguese --russian --spanish --swedish \ default: --eng-1M
18:40:36 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` words -l
18:40:37 <esowiki> <HackEso> valid datasets: --brazilian --bulgarian --canadian-english-insane --catalan --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --esolangs --finnish --french --gaelic --german --german-medical --hebrew --irish --italian --manx --norwegian --ogerman --opcode --pokemon --polish --portuguese --russian --spanish --swedish \ default: --eng-1M
18:40:38 <esowiki> <arseniiv> though I couldn’t give an advice on that, as they are too diverse because of cultural mixing
18:40:49 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas ↑
18:41:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: sure, most of the Hungarian names are mixed in too, and the easiest way to make an authentic sounding Hungarian name is to hungarianize the spelling and phonology of a fake foreign name
18:41:42 <esowiki> <arseniiv> like, not that diverse of course, but I think I would be a bad advisor nonetheless
18:41:53 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: haha
18:42:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> are there good fake pokemon name generator models?
18:42:21 <esowiki> <arseniiv> `pokemon
18:42:22 <esowiki> <HackEso> pokemon? No such file or directory
18:42:26 <esowiki> <arseniiv> `pokemons
18:42:27 <esowiki> <HackEso> pokemons? No such file or directory
18:42:54 <esowiki> <arseniiv> I bet HackEso had something for that, though you’d know better if it’s good
18:44:55 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it has the same problem: there are less than a thousand real pokemon names (right now; it will grow), so it's hard to generate fake ones that look real
18:45:40 <esowiki> <arseniiv> `words --pokemon
18:45:42 <esowiki> <HackEso> turtor
18:46:01 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I tried to generate fake town names of Hungary, there the sample is like 2500, the best ones I got are "Rúgonya" and one that I forgot but that turned out to be the Hungarian name of some town outside of Hungary
18:46:05 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: ah yes, I'm stupid
18:46:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `words --pokemon -o 2 20
18:46:21 <esowiki> <HackEso> nectriken victinaracturtwig skitunky druddiursa cascoloss darumbrelibird lier bunny thundoublast tsareecko banetapod torb snorlax gigalitle leafeon klinklantini wigglyphlos wurmplumismagius macharjabug fomalakie
18:46:34 <esowiki> <arseniiv> the command was right here; I have no eyes and I must seem^W see
18:46:36 <esowiki> <b_jonas> snorlax is real
18:46:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> banetapod sounds nice
18:47:01 <esowiki> <arseniiv> wurmplumismagius :D
18:47:01 <esowiki> <b_jonas> thundoublast also sounds nice
18:47:09 <esowiki> <b_jonas> gigalitle too
18:47:12 <esowiki> <b_jonas> leafeon... isn't that real?
18:47:22 <esowiki> <b_jonas> yeah, leafeon is real
18:48:14 <esowiki> <arseniiv> klinklantini seems to have an affinity to alcohol
18:48:28 <esowiki> <arseniiv> and glassware
18:48:58 <esowiki> <arseniiv> are there inanimate-ish pokemon?
18:49:16 <esowiki> <b_jonas> yes, geosomething
18:59:31 <nakilon> `words --russian -o 2 20
18:59:32 <HackEso> ​помозноджан забытказывалешени недвыхъ каральвили делагоспит вижиша выноукрентагза сарканькенностивобесу силастера пятиилосильскологи encessemble наструиравноплюсь кализируютъ повидовлеей кобразведенцию эндзанный мишагосязато срабамбовал
18:59:38 <esowiki> <myname> seems legit
18:59:59 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `words --russian -o -2 20
19:00:00 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​констваркова дедотают бушиться бегуньски ушисьмедстанов амвтрением диием сокон итропасность софено прибергу правьдана него едают полютретья испрусахь службылинъ кортзанных мускаакопрохо некдуфайтестиленно
19:00:34 <nakilon> more like fake Bulgarian
19:01:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `words --bulgarian 20
19:01:06 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​дървостех сноших кьосветник разубедения гътнализврем борницата дюдюкаработите подоветнадрънча присарските засияване бъбряваш отцеждити ненажима уверно докаялия непокващ добифовавяващ известе одейки замърсващи
19:03:31 <esowiki> <b_jonas> "бъбряваш" starts with "бъб", as if it deliberately tried to look not russian when you specify --bulgarian
19:04:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> also "дървостех"
19:04:54 <esowiki> <nakilon> кализируютъ -- that Ъ in the end is some from 19th century rules
19:04:55 <esowiki> <arseniiv_> <b_jonas> arseniiv: both have some of the brain in https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2663#comic => haha that’s perfect
19:05:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> of course that's exactly the kind of thing that these models can do well
19:06:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> hey, did you notice it has "encessemble" among russian words?
19:06:54 <esowiki> <nakilon> yep, some garbage in the used dictionary
19:07:07 <esowiki> <b_jonas> let's try shorter ones
19:07:14 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `words --russian -o -4 20
19:07:15 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​олярхад пам коэфф консоверно сильчагосуджей горой бразпагоники забадскаго манскомъ оного еваталис росшуюся вых водизмораснов порщитном девязнь ивкал инируемыхъ оттопа разденьков
19:07:21 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the short ones look more believable
19:07:33 <esowiki> <nakilon> горой is a valid word
19:07:41 <esowiki> <arseniiv_> Bulgarian is funny to read even when it’s genuine. Hopefully Bulgarians wouldn’t take offense
19:07:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> also оного
19:07:49 <esowiki> <b_jonas> so is "сокон" from above
19:07:54 <esowiki> <arseniiv_> коэфф ъ
19:07:57 <esowiki> <arseniiv_> => lol
19:08:18 <esowiki> <b_jonas> "вых" doesn't look real
19:08:24 <esowiki> <arseniiv> that’s a common abbreviation for коэффициент coefficient
19:08:38 <esowiki> <b_jonas> oh!
19:08:39 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nice
19:09:10 <esowiki> <b_jonas> and "ивкал" looks suspicious with its trailing "л"
19:09:47 <esowiki> <nakilon> that's normal for past tense verbs
19:09:57 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ah good
19:10:59 <esowiki> <nakilon> again that trailing Ъ
19:11:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> in "инируемыхъ"? it looks especially silly after an "х"
19:11:53 <esowiki> <b_jonas> or do you mean in "манскомъ"?
19:13:24 <esowiki> <nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_sign#Final_yer_pre-1918
19:13:28 <esowiki> <b_jonas> "бразпагоники" looks like a good fake word
19:21:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `word --pokemon -o -4 20
19:21:14 <esowiki> <HackEso> re
19:21:19 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` words --pokemon -o -4 20
19:21:20 <esowiki> <HackEso> rhypno luxe buizel mine crabra gastly sheliolitwig flygon foon mise smoem swamphan cate per quil celgon gole vestang maka arcant
19:21:40 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` words --pokemon 20
19:21:41 <esowiki> <HackEso> carra rhyhorsea venusaur chirita tepin tyran oritarmada exploom grubi digon mushao bulbat dusken lopunne feebast aegiroc lumin skartic popotad staravile
19:21:50 <esowiki> <b_jonas> exploom is nice
19:21:54 <esowiki> <b_jonas> bulbat too
19:34:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> I like these symbols https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glagolitic_script
19:37:43 <esowiki> <nakilon> ⰀⰁⰂⰃⰄⰅⰆⰇⰈⰉⰊⰋⰌⰍⰎⰏ
19:42:27 <esowiki> <river> i like them too
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19:53:31 <esowiki> <arseniiv> someone said they are cute because of circles in most of them. I’d say they remind Greek-Latin-Cyrillic “continuum” but on the other hand are pretty alien, hence the effect. Tifinagh gives me a similar feeling
19:55:11 <esowiki> <river> Arrival
19:55:31 <esowiki> <arseniiv> but for instance Armenian script looks too alien to me, and less unique. I surely wouldn’t want to be an Armenian dyslectic
19:55:43 <esowiki> <arseniiv> oh, hadn’t watched that one yet
19:57:14 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: I'm too used to all major scripts, the internet makes the world small, they don't look alien to me anymore
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20:00:52 <esowiki> [[RCEM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83190&oldid=83155 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+710) Added an introductory section and a reference section, and amended a mistake in the documentation of the Common Lisp implementation.
20:01:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> latin, russian, serbian cyrillic, greek, latin vietnamese, georgian, armenian, hebrew, arabic, persian, chinese kanji, japenese kanji plus kana, hangul, the more common brahmic scripts (devanagari, thai, bengali), latin braille are the ones I see the most often. you can still surprise me with the infinte variety of rarer ones, but not armenian.
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20:03:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> and yes, it's the internet of geeks, so I also see akkadian cuneiform and futhark
20:03:16 <esowiki> <cd> hum, trying to comprehend how hackeso's umlbox works, can't seem to figure out how to get output out of it aha
20:03:27 <esowiki> <b_jonas> (and old hungarian runes, always used in a very non-authentic way)
20:03:36 <esowiki> <cd> everything else worked after some quick fixes to init.c
20:05:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> cd: I used serial terminal in termbot, but I don't know how HackEso works
20:06:43 <esowiki> <cd> https://pybin.pw/LoXF seems it tries to use some tty device, but i'm not sure where ../tty1 is in that particular context
20:07:28 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: in a sense, many to me too, though I don’t read most of them at any rate. Mostly from translations on food packaging and instruction manuals. But Armenian, to continue the example, is alien in its, well, guiding principles or something. It’s strange how do they read fluently letters that are almost exclusively vertical bars. Someone said most cyrillic letters aren’t as legible as latin because there are less ascenders and
20:07:28 <esowiki> <arseniiv> descenders, and often just vertical and horizontal strokes (in lowercase), and the first one seems worse. Though hand-written Armenian looked way more legible IIRC
20:08:36 <esowiki> [[RCEM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83191&oldid=83190 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-52) /* References */ Use wikipedia link
20:09:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: well sure, but in the same sense you could say Chinese kanji is the most readable
20:10:14 <esowiki> <arseniiv> well they are if you memorized them, I guess?
20:10:45 <esowiki> <arseniiv> they are pretty distinct in mass, and also they have some underlying logic, though not a too sane one due to historic process
20:10:53 <esowiki> <b_jonas> as for "exclusively vertical bars", that's how latin script was written in old codexes, so it depends on the font too
20:12:00 <esowiki> <arseniiv> I wouldn’t say A C D G K M N O P Q R S U/V X Y Z would still be exclusively vertical bars
20:12:14 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I mean look at the Gutenberg Bible, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Gutenberg_Bible_B42_Genesis.JPG , which set the traditions for how high quality typeset books are supposed to look like, heavily based on handwritten books
20:12:19 <esowiki> <arseniiv> or do you mean something like fractur?
20:12:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: you have to take lowercase letters, uppercase is rare comapratively
20:12:38 <esowiki> <arseniiv> that’s evidently not too legible yeah
20:13:18 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it's like you draw a sequence of identical vertical lines with serifs on the top and bottom, and modify them with tiny additions or subtractions to turn them to different letters
20:13:21 <esowiki> <arseniiv> ah, so I definitely wasn’t right to think about as far as some roman inscriptions in all capitals
20:14:00 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the roman inscriptions that you see in lapidariums? those are readable to us because the capitals in the Times style fonts that we are used to are based directly on them so they're very similar,
20:14:07 <esowiki> <arseniiv> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Gutenberg_Bible_B42_Genesis.JPG => yep yep that’s the worst
20:14:12 <esowiki> <b_jonas> except that they use very different abbreviations and fewer spaces
20:14:17 <esowiki> <arseniiv> how did they read poor people
20:14:52 <esowiki> <arseniiv> and those abbreviations too, yeah, I read about their diversity and changes in time several months ago
20:15:09 <esowiki> <amdj> Someone might want to arrange for the esolangs bot to be autovoiced. If someone were to hit it with a lot of URIs, it responding with a flood of URI details without at least voice status will trigger a flood notice to network staff, and one of our bots is currently configured to be twitchy about that (it will murder it).
20:15:53 <esowiki> <b_jonas> arseniiv: which abbreviations did you read about? the ones in roman era engraving, or the ones in hand-written mediæval latin codexes
20:16:22 <esowiki> <arseniiv> b_jonas: mediæval ones :)
20:16:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the difference is that the mediæval scribal ones use a lot of unique diacritics; the engraved latin ones are basically pure ascii latin letters with the occasional middle dot separator
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20:19:32 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I have photos of a bunch of old steles with text in various scripts engraved in them, from museums
20:19:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> they can look great
20:19:54 <esowiki> <b_jonas> there are even a few with hieroglyphs carefully engraved as concave rather than convex
20:19:59 <esowiki> <b_jonas> sorry, convex rather than concave
20:20:00 <esowiki> <b_jonas> embossed
20:20:07 <esowiki> <b_jonas> can you imagine doing that to marble?
20:20:36 <esowiki> <b_jonas> of course that only happens in egyptian pyramids and similar
20:20:42 <esowiki> <b_jonas> not for more practical scribal documents
20:20:57 <esowiki> <b_jonas> those are all engraved the normal concave way
20:23:11 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the one that looks the most impressive IRL (though not necessarily in photo) is https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Stele_of_Ashurnasirpal_II_from_Nimrud
20:23:58 <esowiki> <b_jonas> carved from a single block of stone, quite tall, and looms over you, because you can get very close to it, since it's exhibited without any glass or plastic case surrounding it
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20:31:32 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ^source
20:31:32 <esowiki> <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
20:33:26 <esowiki> <cd> I am super close to getting umlbox working
20:33:31 <esowiki> <cd> just output being a pain
20:33:33 <esowiki> <cd> :<
20:33:42 <esowiki> <cd> stdout y u no work
20:33:44 <esowiki> <arseniiv> <b_jonas> can you imagine doing that to marble? => seems a lot of work!
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20:35:21 <esowiki> <cd> ah
20:35:23 <esowiki> <cd> mudem is broke
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20:40:30 <esowiki> <cd> fizzie: sorry for the poke, trying to get umlbox working and the one thing holding me up is stdout. Not sure how to get it to actually give me the result of the ran command atm
20:41:17 <esowiki> <cd> oh i see you have a umlbox fork :P
20:41:19 <esowiki> <fizzie> All I remember about it is, it's very temperamental. Especially when it comes to the output.
20:41:52 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, if you want the specifics of how it's set up for HackEso, it's that version of umlbox, and then the hackbot repo shows how it's being invoked.
20:42:03 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think I mostly just did a rewritten init.
20:42:27 <esowiki> <fizzie> And I think my setup is mudem-free, because I didn't need any multiplexing.
20:44:13 <esowiki> <fizzie> https://esolangs.org/wiki/HackEso#Implementation_details might also have some useful tidbit in it, who knows. Probably not, though.
20:44:44 <esowiki> <cd> Thanks, atm I'm considering the feasability of rehosting hackeso, again.
20:44:52 <esowiki> <cd> just for fun mostly
20:45:10 <esowiki> <cd> whole setup is quite interesting aha
20:46:28 <esowiki> <cd> and I certainly noticed it's temperamental ^^;
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21:09:20 <esowiki> <Lykaina> hi
21:10:31 <esowiki> <b_jonas> hello Lykaina
21:10:45 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you haven't been here for a while
21:12:38 <Sgeo> Hi Lykaina
21:12:47 <Sgeo> I should probably move over to Libera soonish
21:12:58 <esowiki> <Lykaina> just setting up Libera
21:14:16 <esowiki> <Lykaina> Sgeo: when you do, let me know
21:15:46 <esowiki> <river> this is bridged
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21:16:46 <esowiki> <Lykaina> river: and publicly logged
21:20:32 <esowiki> <river> oh shit
21:20:36 <esowiki> <river> how do I delete my previous message
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21:21:36 <esowiki> <fizzie> We should probably figure out a mechanism for that, actually. Though it's complicated by having it publicly logged to a bunch of independent places.
21:22:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fizzie: I think there are multiple incompatible IRC extensions for that
21:22:39 <esowiki> <b_jonas> at least one more native IRC one, and one that twitch uses to map its own message deletes
21:22:49 <esowiki> <Sgeo> The name of this place almost makes me sad that we won't get people coming in here thinking it's about ghosts
21:23:06 <esowiki> <fizzie> Sgeo: We've got #esoteric redirected here, so it's still quite possible.
21:23:09 <esowiki> <b_jonas> Sgeo: we will, because #esoteric redirects here
21:23:42 <esowiki> <b_jonas> Sgeo: we might not have Canaima people coming in here, so we should submit a patch to Canaima to forward them here, plus keep some amount of presence on freenode/#esoteric to redirect anyone who arrives there
21:24:34 <esowiki> <cd> agh what a pain
21:24:40 <esowiki> <cd> i got everything working only for no output again
21:25:48 <esowiki> <Sgeo> Canaima?
21:26:44 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? canaima
21:26:46 <esowiki> <HackEso> Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people who have no idea why they're here.
21:27:49 <esowiki> <nakilon> is there any language or other math system that has no zero?
21:28:23 <esowiki> <Lykaina> ancient phoenecian
21:28:31 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I think it's like the old AOL install CDs, but they mistyped the contact phone number, so everyone arrives here
21:29:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> oh by the way, the television media card thingy that I just installed to my grandma's television (basically just follow the instructions on the paper manual to type in a few numbers and insert the card into the slot in the back of the TV) gives an error message that refers the user to an obsolete customer service short phone number that now call a different inappropriate service provider's customer
21:29:59 <esowiki> <b_jonas> service
21:30:12 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the short phone numbers keep changing every few years, probably as a method of obfuscations so fewer people reach customer services
21:30:31 <esowiki> <nakilon> like changing IRC networks
21:31:28 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: there's Forte where you have to cope with some numbers being unusable, and there was another esolang with a similar property but with the set of unusable numbers fixed
21:31:40 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: yes
21:31:48 <esowiki> <b_jonas> but that doesn't happen every few yeras
21:32:09 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I have entries inherited from around 2008 in my irc configuration that still work
21:32:12 <esowiki> <b_jonas> channels
21:32:43 <esowiki> <cd> fizzie: do you happen to have any clue as to what causes stdout to just not work?
21:33:00 <esowiki> <nakilon> there should be a RAM with unusable memory addresses that correspond to prime numbers, preferably very large prime numbers
21:33:05 <esowiki> <cd> i have the entire multibot setup functional, it's just umlbox not cooperating now
21:33:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: oh yeah, that exists too:
21:34:14 <esowiki> <b_jonas> https://www.linusakesson.net/scene/safevsp/index.php
21:34:51 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it mentions a case where you want to program such that every eighths byte in the memory is unusable
21:36:27 <esowiki> <nakilon> I remember how on 32 Windows every 4th gigabyte of 4 GB RAM was unusable
21:36:28 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: prime numbers are easier, because there are large gaps between them, so if the memory is infinitely large, you can just choose a large enough contiguous subset. sure, it might require you to buy an exponentially larger sized memory chip, who cares, RAM is cheap
21:36:31 <esowiki> <fizzie> cd: Not really, just vague recollections that I've had problems with the output, especially when it comes to those con1/con2/con UML command-line arguments and getting them all right.
21:37:05 <esowiki> <nakilon> b_jonas ok, prime number div 100
21:38:21 <esowiki> <fizzie> There's something very unintuitive about what those parameters mean, especially when it comes to separate input and output designations.
21:39:16 <esowiki> <fizzie> I'm pretty sure I had it in a state at least once where the `-v` mode worked fine but had all that kernel output spam, while the non-verbose version just lost the command stdout somewhere.
21:40:09 <esowiki> <fizzie> Not impossible there's even some Linux kernel version differences, I've certainly had to do tweaking when upgrading the kernel.
21:40:13 <esowiki> <nakilon> or imagine the memory that rotates sometimes, like by 1 byte every second
21:41:13 <esowiki> <nakilon> and the growing end does not copy data from the dying start but fills with zeros
21:41:35 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think I might have it working on Debian's UML kernel at the moment, rather than a self-built one. Maybe. Can't tell from my notes.
21:42:09 <esowiki> <nakilon> btw about notes that you can't tell from
21:42:26 <esowiki> <nakilon> is it also common in other countries that it's damn impossible to read what doctors write?
21:42:39 <esowiki> <nakilon> https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BA+%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B0&rlz=1C1SQJL_ruRU840RU840&sxsrf=ALeKk03EOZnntQ-kI9YTsmdda1hgQS0vdA:1621719750655&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-s6btoN7wAhXjl4sKHfJmAGMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1279&bih=684&dpr=2
21:42:44 <esowiki> <fizzie> Actually, looks like it's built from Debian's `user-mode-linux` package sources but with patching.
21:42:59 <esowiki> <fizzie> And I think doctors' handwriting is one of those classic things to joke about, so probably.
21:43:53 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: that would just be like old DRAMs with no built-in refresh logic, so you have to refresh them from the CPU
21:44:05 <esowiki> <nakilon> I just looked at like 10 of these images and could not understand a single word, neither I could do about my own medical book
21:44:14 <esowiki> <b_jonas> also,
21:44:39 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ais523: you're fizzie's second-in-command, do you have any opinion to weigh in about the future of #esoteric after all the freenode drama? I'd like to hear
21:45:00 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, that's common
21:45:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: pharmacists train hard to be able to read it, and then they tell stories about particular doctors where even they can't read the handwriting
21:46:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> (also about stupid doctors who write readable but stupid instructions, for which they have to check and filter out to not harm the patient too much, but that's less funny)
21:46:19 <esowiki> <nakilon> they should have a special font now when it's computerised
21:46:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> called kshfjdbhfj.ttf
21:47:32 <esowiki> <b_jonas> that said, my handwriting is unreadable too
21:47:48 <esowiki> <b_jonas> and it's very different from my brother's handwriting
21:47:53 <esowiki> <nakilon> maybe you have medical talents you didn't develop
21:48:01 <esowiki> <b_jonas> no, it's my brother who's the doctor
21:48:03 <esowiki> <cd> fizzie: I'm not sure it's even attempting to run the kernel, judging from the --verbose output
21:48:07 <esowiki> <cd> <CTCP>ACTION sighs<CTCP>
21:48:55 <esowiki> <cd> or rather, i'm getting no output from the kernel
21:49:50 <esowiki> <cd> running the command myself "works" (tmp file since deleted)
21:51:21 <esowiki> <cd> https://pybin.pw/He0C atm this is the most it tells me
21:52:35 <esowiki> <nakilon> lol issue closed https://github.com/sjvasquez/handwriting-synthesis/issues/9
22:05:23 <esowiki> <cd> ok wtf, uml is very much being tempermental
22:06:58 <esowiki> <cd> > ioctl /random: bad address
22:07:00 <esowiki> <lambdabot> error:
22:07:00 <esowiki> <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: ioctl :: g -> (a, g)error:
22:07:00 <esowiki> <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: bad :: t0 -> [g -> (a, g)]
22:07:04 <esowiki> [[User talk:AlvinBalvin321]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83192&oldid=76349 * AlvinBalvin321 * (+4720) /* ? */
22:11:29 <esowiki> <cd> output now works by removing random entirely, but writing to env doesn't seem to function
22:16:44 <esowiki> <cd> `` cat $(which "\`")
22:16:45 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${@-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnoooooodl
22:17:31 <esowiki> <river> wthat the heck?
22:17:33 <esowiki> <cd> `quote
22:17:33 <esowiki> <HackEso> 1030) <shachaf> your first mistake was making your second mistake
22:17:43 <esowiki> <river> `` which rnoooooodl
22:17:44 <esowiki> <HackEso> No output.
22:17:47 <esowiki> <river> `` cat $(which rnoooooodl)
22:17:48 <esowiki> <HackEso> No output.
22:18:01 <esowiki> <river> `` grep -R / rnoooooodl
22:18:04 <esowiki> <HackEso> grep: rnoooooodl: No such file or directory
22:18:10 <esowiki> <river> `` grep -R rnoooooodl /
22:18:44 <esowiki> <fizzie> Oh, that thing.
22:18:46 <esowiki> <HackEso> grep: /etc/alternatives/my.cnf: No such file or directory
22:18:59 <esowiki> <fizzie> river: It's actually got a few less 'o's in it.
22:19:12 <esowiki> <fizzie> `cbt `
22:19:13 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​#!/bin/bash \ cmd="${@-quote}" \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$cmd" | rnooodl
22:19:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> But when you're *actually* running through it, it adds more.
22:19:46 <esowiki> <fizzie> `cbt rnooodl
22:19:47 <esowiki> <HackEso> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
22:19:48 <esowiki> <river> Of coursee
22:24:07 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I hate rnoodl, and I hate bin/\` for using it
22:24:40 <esowiki> <b_jonas> bin/\`\` too
22:24:59 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I always wanted to just remove it from bin/\` and bin/\`\` but I don't dare
22:25:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it can stay in the wisdom commands
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22:53:45 <esowiki> <nakilon> when I was coding in RASEL I needed to make some large number and it appeared to be less trivial to do that in Befunge
22:54:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> in Befunge you just :*:*:*:* to increase it rapidly but it's more complicated when you don't have a multiplication operation
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22:56:12 <esowiki> <nakilon> so you can either have a large N and repeat :1\//
22:57:28 <esowiki> <nakilon> or maybe do some 1 / (1/N - 1/M) but I'm not 100% sure it would be any faster per cycle
22:58:17 <esowiki> <nakilon> but may make the path towards the number you need more interesting
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23:01:17 <esowiki> <cd> annnd hackbot copy is now mostly working(tm)
23:01:30 <esowiki> <cd> `revision
23:01:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nice
23:01:31 <esowiki> <HackEso> revision? No such file or directory
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23:06:22 <esowiki> <fizzie> Whoops, need to flip a setting.
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23:16:09 <esowiki> <ProofTechnique> Perhaps the most esoteric thing of all, a minutely more descriptive channel name
23:17:58 <esowiki> [[PaRappa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83193&oldid=83149 * Zero player rodent * (+737)
23:23:19 <esowiki> <int-e> oh "profession" would have fit in the religious theme
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