> 1621987257 49015 PRIVMSG #esoteric : " I wonder what a NetHack TCG would be like" => I was wondering about that at some point, and figured out some possible mechanics, but in the end it mostly comes down to making any good TCG core, then flavoring it to nethack by throwing in as many nethack references as you can. Same as you'd make a TCG for a TV series. > 1621987302 956232 PRIVMSG #esoteric : if computerized, the biggest way you could do it is simply to try and have as much foresight as nethack itself > 1621987306 463518 PRIVMSG #esoteric : good luck with that though > 1621987334 465962 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You apply the potion of oil to the iron golem, it's attack power doubles! > 1621987351 545727 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's an interesting quine, how does the unbalanced double quote work? > 1621987388 299490 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can try to make up templates for the TCG using TeXnicard, perhaps. I also believe that a computer implementation of the rules should be written as FOSS, perhaps using literate programming so that it includes the general text too. > 1621987427 397664 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas it reads it once for start then wraps around the line and reads it again for the end > 1621987472 325931 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BF-PDA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83429&oldid=83008 5* 03Bangyen 5* (-74) 10 > 1621987484 657226 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07BFStack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83430&oldid=83011 5* 03Bangyen 5* (-53) 10 > 1621987508 912195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07EXCON14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83431&oldid=83007 5* 03Bangyen 5* (-15) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1621987523 521860 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RAM014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83432&oldid=83010 5* 03Bangyen 5* (-53) 10 > 1621987524 494458 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: bash arbitrary delimiter: there's here-docs, but nothing like perl/ruby's single character delimiter. I would occasionally like a better delimiter for URLs in bash, because neither " nor ' works. > 1621987619 465832 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: oh! so that's why when I miss the @ builtin you get an infinite loop. that makes much more sense > 1621987632 733729 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ye ) > 1621987733 426492 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well that makes more sense > 1621987802 791101 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have found ' suitable to delimit URLs in bash > 1621987885 851567 PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: that doesn't work well because URLs can contain ' so then you have to escape it > 1621987935 543914 PRIVMSG #esoteric : $'' doesn't work for the same reason; "" doesn't work because now you have to escape dollar signs > 1621988082 925522 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and yes, this is a small complaing, I do generally like bash > 1621988085 831859 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I had never needed to use a URL with ' > 1621988325 957531 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey I made it even shorter > 1621988328 803342 PRIVMSG #esoteric : \rasel <@,Yj5#?:," > 1621988331 976505 PRIVMSG #esoteric : output: "<@,Yj5#?:,\"", exit code: 0 > 1621988393 400527 PRIVMSG #esoteric : both ? branches reach the j, but one gets 5 and another carries own end-loop 0 > 1621988510 472566 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's now 1 char shorter than Befunge-98 I guess < 1621988728 109830 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar QUIT :*.net *.split < 1621988728 109879 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :*.net *.split > 1621989104 471015 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `rasel <@,Yj5#?:," > 1621989106 746914 PRIVMSG #esoteric : <@,Yj5#?:," > 1621989120 979501 PRIVMSG #esoteric : valid in both versions > 1621989302 755467 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `rasel "tobadbmal olleh >",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,@ > 1621989306 276057 PRIVMSG #esoteric : > hello lambdabot < 1621989333 562349 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1621989574 117240 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1621989601 542440 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1621989668 127920 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1621989760 855838 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07RASEL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83433&oldid=83422 5* 03Nakilon 5* (+7) 10/* Quine */ 11 chars < 1621991002 499609 :xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar JOIN :#esoteric < 1621991063 46761 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1621991224 768953 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric < 1621991360 48004 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1621991923 660814 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1621991931 628336 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1621992186 629471 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1621993023 385008 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Aylias 5* 10New user account > 1621993188 800674 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83434&oldid=83411 5* 03Aylias 5* (+206) 10/* Introductions */ > 1621993644 936648 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Heh, I was fiddling in SASL support to my IRC thing (seems to be working now), and noticed I had originally generated a 10-year self-signed cert, which will expire next year. Wonder how I'm supposed to remember something like that. > 1621993697 989062 PRIVMSG #esoteric : put it into your calendar and hope that it survives the 2 software migrations in the meantime? > 1621993922 167455 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, it might just barely work. < 1621995204 283910 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1621995375 998110 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Turns out bip doesn't do SASL. :/ (After adding it to the homegrown bot thing, was thinking of setting it up for this human-client connection too.) > 1621995429 711464 PRIVMSG #esoteric : irssi does. weechat does too, presumably > 1621995465 293783 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, but they're not bouncers. < 1621995466 267775 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1621995486 974478 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I went through this phase of experimenting with clients, and it was convenient to not have that cause any trouble. > 1621995495 829538 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I know ZNC does, but it's too mainstream.) > 1621995502 811996 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh bouncers, right > 1621995536 240354 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, being mainstream may correlate with growing sasl support > 1621995599 13369 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, I guess. bip does client-side certificates, which is *almost* but not exactly the same. > 1621995683 101669 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Adding a client cert fingerprint to NickServ makes it auto-identify soon *after* connecting, but you still need to do a SASL EXTERNAL thing in the connection registration stage to make it happen before actually connecting.) > 1621995688 412166 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea... < 1621998453 513751 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1621998736 508395 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1621998977 68628 PRIVMSG #esoteric : did y'all get your channel seized on freenode. > 1621998980 561511 PRIVMSG #esoteric : because #lobsters did. > 1621998991 204582 PRIVMSG #esoteric : everyone did > 1621999002 793788 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they've seized every single channel that mentions libera. > 1621999031 60112 PRIVMSG #esoteric : all of them > 1621999037 651524 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and are doing.. what. > 1621999061 346012 PRIVMSG #esoteric : forcibly preventing the channel from leaving, by hiding the fact it moved > 1621999070 735869 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's redirected to it's ## version, and owned by a placeholder account > 1621999102 365096 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anybody wanna argue about FUD when moving networks now. < 1621999234 858236 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1621999311 887699 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1621999337 847683 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1621999494 286948 PRIVMSG #esoteric : bye freenode, fuck you andrew lee. > 1621999749 112221 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's pretty... uh, what did they think was gonna happen < 1621999787 762828 :shikhout!~shikhin@nat-wireless-140-180-240-29.princeton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1621999792 757933 :shikhout!~shikhin@nat-wireless-140-180-240-29.princeton.edu QUIT :Client Quit > 1621999944 862517 PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Probably hope to snag users that haven't realized everyone's movied to libera > 1621999964 704124 PRIVMSG #esoteric : So uders that log on to IRC maybe once-twice a month or something > 1622000053 62520 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i feel like they'd notice the sudden total redirection of all the channels to ## under new management tho > 1622000055 802862 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I still don't get the hostile takeover of Freenode, I'd assume taking care of the needs and wants of a bunch of smelly computer nerds (present company excluded) would be a much bigger pain in the ass than whatever monetary gains are to be had from owning the IRC chat which they use > 1622000063 639955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Amp 5* 10New user account > 1622000080 568026 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it is objectively bizarre > 1622000162 182349 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Who'd buy it and why? > 1622000182 32543 PRIVMSG #esoteric : There is an objectively negative cost associated with owning and maintaining an IRC network > 1622000216 446155 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh? Could you explain? > 1622000233 785818 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83435&oldid=83434 5* 03Amp 5* (+155) 10/* Introductions */ > 1622000296 749335 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what_the_fuck_am_i_reading.jpg > 1622000298 210807 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder what they do for channels that are in "violation" that are already ## > 1622000305 721270 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83436&oldid=83435 5* 03Amp 5* (+67) 10/* Introductions */ > 1622000315 432434 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3>IRC is one of the last few remaining open messaging platforms that anybody can setup and manage their own communities with. No vendor lock in, no black box services. > 1622000322 438663 PRIVMSG #esoteric : They introduce this like it's a bad thing > 1622000355 152070 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Amp14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83437 5* 03Amp 5* (+2) 10Created page with "yo" > 1622000410 166537 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think I see, so Lee's trying to make Freenode his so he can make it the testbed for his irc.com webshit and sell it to investors? > 1622000417 214168 PRIVMSG #esoteric : yuh. > 1622000453 469149 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd ask who'd invest in that, but then people invested in juicero so I won't. < 1622000498 645703 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye freenode:#esoteric, see you on the other side (where I've already taken up residence, obviously.) < 1622000505 179871 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART :#esoteric > 1622000534 690412 PRIVMSG #esoteric : very smart to take over a platform and immediately drive off the entire existing userbase > 1622000553 386367 PRIVMSG #esoteric : clearly much better than just starting your own irc network from scratch > 1622000555 864274 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :P > 1622000591 429312 PRIVMSG #esoteric : is this just a case of capitalists being unable to understand the internet? they can't imagine any way to build things that doesn't involve first displacing an existing group of people? < 1622001699 907777 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622001981 886894 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1622002154 886440 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622002457 897711 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1622002492 41025 PRIVMSG #esoteric : FORWARD might be a good idea; the rest I don't like. (Also, GZIP is bad because it requires the client software to implement it. Ideally, no special client software should be needed for IRC; such things should be optional.) > 1622002667 525860 PRIVMSG #esoteric : like i believe that < 1622003024 80589 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622003330 50730 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1622003330 178642 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1622003403 171586 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hehehe > 1622003782 165218 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi soni < 1622004264 504571 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1622004373 690428 :dcristofani!~dcristofa@69-71-183-170.mammothnetworks.com QUIT :Client Quit > 1622004385 268773 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Soni: That is a possibility, but I recommend not using them anyways. < 1622004595 65790 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1622005834 840353 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1622006278 506847 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622006429 565462 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod QUIT :Quit: This user has migrated to irc.libera.chat. < 1622006566 591441 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1622008930 892465 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622009552 469273 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1622010796 516762 PRIVMSG #esoteric : cd: that's a good one, they kickbanned everyone from the existing channels, that will get a lot of people notice that something happened and get them moving > 1622010836 235679 PRIVMSG #esoteric : " i feel like they'd notice the sudden total redirection of all the channels to ## under new management tho" => not really that, more like that suddenly there are much fewer people on > 1622010891 707037 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83438&oldid=83223 5* 03B jonas 5* (-13) 10 > 1622011039 671099 PRIVMSG #esoteric : keegan: unclear, he might want to just destroy the network completely (without directly stating that) and driving people to competitor forums that he has interest in more secretly < 1622011092 512440 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PART #esoteric :"Hug~♪" < 1622011676 387118 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Quit: ^C < 1622011695 798780 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1622011910 249815 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622012041 794761 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1622012055 769382 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1622012416 416341 PRIVMSG #esoteric : at least if he wanted to destroy freenode, he had the courtsey of doing it quickly rather than having communities wonder if they should stay or find a new place > 1622012855 928239 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SF Code14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83439&oldid=83409 5* 03ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) 5* (+226) 10Recategorization > 1622014096 492073 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: "just forcibly changing the topic" => that would have no effect, because NOBODY READS TOPICS ON IRC. they just used the topic as a quick filter to tell which communities redirect users to other networks in more effective ways. grepping topics is easier to automate than looking at project websites to see which projects changed their links. > 1622014125 233895 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: also, if you feel like my encouragement to make a bridge pressured you, you are hereby absolved, I no longer think a bridge to freenode is helpful < 1622014287 441212 :sprock!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PART :#esoteric > 1622014290 196723 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fuck freenode > 1622014301 544662 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they're dead to me > 1622014303 181745 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i told them to eat my balls > 1622014311 444149 PRIVMSG #esoteric : long live libera > 1622014312 553265 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `coins > 1622014315 914763 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 06milecoin 13wotioncoin 04limpcoin 07fakcoin 08bfccoin 09smitisorbcoin 02safenfcoin 06nrfcoin 13axicoin 04aaallyidocoin 07dermdrcemecoin 08shakbcoin 09hyphillecoin 02sorthcoin 06codacoin 13ampucoin 04hpndersiopcoin 07nephalcoin 08percardcoin 09igncoin > 1622015401 590552 PRIVMSG #esoteric : heh, "Leenode" rather than Freenode , via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287038 > We should stop implicitly legitimizing Andrew Lee's power grab by referring to his dominion as "Freenode" > 1622015548 269602 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, I was just wondering what to rename the network tag of freenode in my irc config so I don't absent-mindedly connect and join it and think I'm correctly connected to IRC > 1622015557 966518 PRIVMSG #esoteric : will probably still go with something else rather than a cheap pun < 1622016020 929117 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1622016029 524346 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago? > 1622016034 819090 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Libera is the land of the future. Probably. < 1622016056 88924 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1622016088 844282 PRIVMSG #esoteric : now the leest of nodes? < 1622016140 244182 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1622016273 512129 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (just realised I misunderstood which was the freest... Libera is free-er than freenode, so is freest...) My attempt at a joke needs to be rewritten accordingly > 1622016284 570798 PRIVMSG #esoteric : int-e: evil tortoise? come on, the lore is obvious. the freenode gods pulled off a miracle of setting up a new network in like two days, with several servers, and led us out of Egypt > 1622016395 828175 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of free nodes, Freenode is leest, Libera is freest? > 1622016437 167140 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `? puns > 1622016438 479524 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings. < 1622016549 676347 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1622016675 771363 :hendursaga!~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga JOIN :#esoteric > 1622019080 143512 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `` ruby -e "p 'Libera' > 'Freenode'" > 1622019084 541659 PRIVMSG #esoteric : true > 1622019098 318720 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `` ruby -e "p 'Freenode' > 'Libera'" > 1622019099 327870 PRIVMSG #esoteric : false > 1622019171 981584 PRIVMSG #esoteric : True > 1622021629 292772 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this "Community-curated" in github repo titles... > 1622021633 399687 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what does it even mean > 1622021670 114507 PRIVMSG #esoteric : they always have the repo owner who reviews and accepts the pull requests only if he feels so, the same as in any another github repo > 1622021968 562408 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, that was certainly a thing. Wondering if I should make that bridge a one-way affair, just freenode -> here, so that it would mainly serve the purpose of letting people here notice if someone they know comes in wondering about what's up. (Up until `freenodecom` comes in and forcibly redirects it to ##esoteric, of course, at which point I don't think I'd bother.) > 1622021987 319597 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what even more funny is that you could say "well the pull requests should probably pass the CI checks", but nope -- the https://github.com/github/explore/commits/main has the ./script/cibuild script but they don't have CI, lol -- this script threw errors that they fixed only 11 hours ago < 1622022006 775713 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yigaeishlekharby JOIN :#esoteric < 1622022100 444538 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yigaeishlekharby QUIT :Client Quit > 1622022104 284561 PRIVMSG #esoteric : not that it amazes me in any way because I already saw an amazing shit done by github staff > 1622022231 417965 PRIVMSG #esoteric : one of their guys took the whole course code of my gem and replaced the source code of another gem on github, not changing the name, nor giving any credits -- just copypoasted the whole code over, with mistakes, and made a pull request -- at first I thought it's someone drunk or indian but nope, he had the "Github staff" badge > 1622022241 686509 PRIVMSG #esoteric : *source < 1622022282 757711 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-tvbqtvztvgjwodnj JOIN :#esoteric > 1622022297 647471 PRIVMSG #esoteric : though still could be drunk > 1622022325 381172 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie I think the bridge gives people on freenode know that libera exists > 1622022337 644105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and that we are active here > 1622022349 243428 PRIVMSG #esoteric : *makes people > 1622022371 338267 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, it's just there's a number of people who I think prefer not to get their comments forwarded over there. But fair enough, I guess it still does that even if there's odd gaps in the conversation. > 1622022381 889234 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Like lambdabot just saying "True" out of the blue. ;) > 1622022431 815924 PRIVMSG #esoteric : lol > 1622022440 811530 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: disenchanter: ask not, as opposed to the nether world, the chalk pencil, and without a mother. she is usually heard or seen in profile, the demon lord. inhabited or not, have very detailed short-term plans for it had been very upset to find if hearts be wild and wise. > 1622022455 811143 PRIVMSG #esoteric : In retrospect, I think that wasn't the best ^style for that. > 1622022542 317226 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so on freenode it looks like a demon lord took a control over him > 1622022576 364529 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07While(true)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83440&oldid=83400 5* 03Aonodensetsu 5* (+0) 10/* Quirks */ > 1622022592 129528 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh here we go < 1622022606 580752 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-tvbqtvztvgjwodnj QUIT :Quit: dionys > 1622022611 614233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07While(true)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83441&oldid=83440 5* 03Aonodensetsu 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ < 1622022726 779340 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-shvryuyjysvbrakr JOIN :#esoteric > 1622025563 528441 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Goatoo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83442&oldid=83421 5* 03DynCoder 5* (+139) 10 > 1622025646 32432 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Sertdfyguhi14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83443&oldid=81241 5* 03Sertdfyguhi 5* (-27) 10update > 1622027397 54443 PRIVMSG #esoteric : is there any website that provides a ""community driven" " catalogue of irc channels? > 1622027471 330548 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean only those who already can IRC know about /list, and even they don't immediately know about alis, etc., it would be nice to have some guide over your possible places of interests if you are not in IRC yet > 1622027587 999841 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's not a *curated* list, but there's always https://netsplit.de/channels/?net=libera.chat and such. > 1622027591 349557 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's kind of flaky in what it displays, though. > 1622027975 596742 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi Am Dm6 G F#add9 Fm7 C6 G what do you think? > 1622030086 331939 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83444&oldid=83183 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+1304) 10/* Freenode and the future */ Last call for objections. > 1622030242 622828 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie it doesn't provide a tree/tags cataloging < 1622030269 958019 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric > 1622030274 594253 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv you mean q3dm6? > 1622030323 7621 PRIVMSG #esoteric : don’t know what q3 is > 1622030342 709437 PRIVMSG #esoteric : shame on you > 1622030409 322489 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, a Quake map. Didn’t play Quake :) > 1622030432 585397 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I meant the chord D F A B > 1622030446 325462 PRIVMSG #esoteric : from an alis topic search on freenode, there are at least a few channels that still advertise in the topic that they moved to libera, but there are also some that advertise that they moved to oftc or hackint > 1622030741 198202 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Are they #channels or ##channels? Although I don't doubt there's exceptions. > 1622030762 967417 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv it's in this classic video starting at 4:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg9RVktBNMA < 1622030842 320593 :delta23!~deltaepsi@unaffiliated/deltaepsilon23 JOIN :#esoteric > 1622031023 309613 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: "community-curated" means that is the software is buggy or badly designed, the maintainer don't accept blame, because it was "the community" that maintained it wrong, according to them > 1622031802 189018 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: for libera, only ## and ## channels I think > 1622031829 427798 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well no\ > 1622031833 370724 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm wrong > 1622031871 240470 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: there are #-channels too, like freenode/#archlinux-security, that say moved to libera in topic > 1622031941 772573 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not attempting to tell how many large channels have such notices in topic, because it's hard to tell how large a channel is when it's moved away, and I don't have historic data > 1622031963 968060 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe they changed to that after the big sweep? Or just were missed. Or got their channel back: #go-nuts on freenode was "recovered", and now says "see for official support channels" in topic, which is one way to put it. > 1622031989 59708 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: yes, they probably changed the topic again after the big sweep. they probably have nothing to lose by changing it again. > 1622032061 628065 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Incidentally, on freenode we have ##esoteric set as `+if #esoteric` owned by tswett (who's moved from IRC to Matrix, I think) -- I wonder what would've happened if we had had Libera in the topic. > 1622032073 425542 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Given the nature of the channel, I think the best-case scenario (as in, for maximum absurdity) would've been that we'd have have both #esoteric and ##esoteric as invite-only and both forwarding to each other. > 1622032091 149822 PRIVMSG #esoteric : But I guess more plausibly they would have reset the modes of ##esoteric to open it up. > 1622032146 472553 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "see for official support channels" => yeah, that's harder to object against, freenode historically had extra channels where the official channel was on another network: ##rust before mozilla irc got shut down, and #gimp or ##gimp (can't recall which) > 1622032165 994751 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Goatoo14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83445&oldid=83442 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+71) 10/* Language Overview */ Categories > 1622032187 825177 PRIVMSG #esoteric : plus of course such a topic can refer to non-irc forums (though it's less likely to say "channels") for the large number of projects that don't consider the freenode presence official > 1622032223 934520 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SF Code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83446&oldid=83439 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+0) 10Move cats to bottom < 1622032230 378026 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1622032235 4749 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "both #esoteric and ##esoteric as invite-only and both forwarding to each other" lol, that would be funny indeed > 1622032378 350806 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Move cats to bottom" <- herding cats, I see. > 1622032395 211289 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, cats as in categories; I was assuming examples of the cat program. > 1622032541 545513 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there should be a language about cats > 1622032636 660258 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh I see https://esolangs.org/wiki/CAT > 1622032782 214944 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Nakilon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83447&oldid=81104 5* 03Nakilon 5* (+28) 10added Libera > 1622033002 644691 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what's a brctl? > 1622033016 718121 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh the bridge > 1622033019 461759 PRIVMSG #esoteric : bridge something > 1622033076 848260 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I named it after brctl(8), the Linux utility to control Ethernet bridges. > 1622033105 581537 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("ctl" is presumably short for "control".) < 1622033470 246689 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1622033629 428700 PRIVMSG #esoteric : or cuttle[fish] > 1622033997 674754 PRIVMSG #esoteric : does fungot connect to IRC via some network funge-98 extension or is it another process that connects? > 1622033997 755720 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: they say that a large number, led a semi-independent life of mortals with a curved single-edged blade. its body around in such a way that it was a blade like a hell-broth boil and bubble." the bushmen say that when invoked, it is inescapable once earned. he is small, has dark skin and wears strange clothes. > 1622034022 17931 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^source > 1622034022 99778 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 > 1622034222 651431 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so it's http://rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#SOCK ? > 1622034238 875206 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Certainly seems possible > 1622035093 588896 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, it does the sockets with SOCK. > 1622035104 753976 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Otherwise it'd be cheating. ;) > 1622035134 812766 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://github.com/fis/fungot/#running lists the required fingerprints, for the record. > 1622035134 850941 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: dark room? your chance to develop your photographs!' ( brignall banks, by h. rider haggard) > 1622035176 707520 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I do run a (bip) bouncer between it and the actual network for stability and TLS support, though. > 1622035208 60232 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which also might mean if it's not responding but still online, the cfunge process has crashed but the bouncer hasn't. Not that it's really happened yet. > 1622035220 124797 PRIVMSG #esoteric : cd: orion, sirius: orion was the daughter of jupiter and juno. ( capitalized:) a constellation of the king," he said desperately, " one rest") < 1622035233 346579 :dionys!dionys@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-shvryuyjysvbrakr PART :#esoteric > 1622035245 293581 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Many years ago when I made Pietbot it cheated because Piet doesn't have network IO > 1622035250 229248 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder how many esolangs do > 1622035250 333729 PRIVMSG #esoteric : esobot: "It listens for the MediaWiki UDP "recent changes" feed" -- interesting, so the bot listens to the local network for the message? I wish there something similar in web because otherwise you have to reread the whole, let's say, RSS/Atom feed and store somewhere what was the last id you've processed, and then the feeder has to follow the > 1622035250 463506 PRIVMSG #esoteric : order of items otherwise you have to read them all and sort, etc. etc. > 1622035309 186140 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Otherwise it'd be cheating" -- yeah otherwise it would be no point in writing features in funge is you already have the IRC communicator written in something more trivial and probably extendable > 1622035337 836024 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, MediaWiki can post changes formatted as JSON/XML/"IRC" and post them either as raw UDP or via Redis Pub/Sub. > 1622035373 190303 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgRCFeeds > 1622035405 258119 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I think I just hooked the piet interpreter up to netcat) > 1622035426 59313 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok so this is a silly and esoteric idea, but what if the guy who bought freenode is, besides being rich (which we know) is an eccentric (possibly amateur) social scientist who got intrigued by how even though the covid pandemic destroyed a lot of in person communities, it also made stronger communities quickly formed online and strengthened people's sense of community and caring about each other in > 1622035432 62559 PRIVMSG #esoteric : general, and wanted to do another experiment to see how this reproduces? > 1622035457 317609 PRIVMSG #esoteric : That seems... unethical > 1622035480 148802 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "or via Redis Pub/Sub" -- unfortunately there is no such thing as public pub/sub that websites would provide for random users > 1622035490 318358 PRIVMSG #esoteric : as an alternative to RSS > 1622035505 971725 PRIVMSG #esoteric : socat made it possible to use TLS (...well, after updating to a more recent version supporting SNI...), I don't think netcat flavors at least generally support that. > 1622035537 722677 PRIVMSG #esoteric : So that nobody can snoop in on HackEso's network password, impersonate it, and thus gain control of mission-critical infrastructure. > 1622035563 230652 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Otherwise it'd be cheating." => um, yes, but there was an ICFP contest judge's prize winner that was written in Metafont and used an external command for the socket connections because apparently Metafont doesn't have a built-in way to do this, and we don't want to say that that one is cheating, so we may let it slide for a befunge program too > 1622035575 960889 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I'm assuming there's mission-critical infrastructure accepting commands from HackEso when it's authenticated to NickServ, which may be a little bit of a stretch.) > 1622035595 324981 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: I think it might be OK when the language has no network IO > 1622035614 166188 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, I think that's the distinction. It's not cheating for Piet either, because there's just no way. > 1622035645 32164 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Although arguably that whatever-that-thing-was would have been a more esoteric solution. > 1622035657 674961 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "strengthened people's sense of community" -- I'm still not sure it was about sense of community rather than hate to Korean nation or that he had a taste to chose the word "Imperial" to his company name > 1622035665 973299 PRIVMSG #esoteric : That thing that was supposed to provide advanced I/O to brainfuck and other similar single-stdin/out languages. > 1622035745 443840 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: I'm not saying that it's definitely true, but it's a theory that some people seriously mentioned, and so an experiment may make sense > 1622035747 117824 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can't remember the name. Was Sgeo involved with it? Anyway, we talked about it. Not having much luck finding hits on the wiki either. > 1622035790 134707 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Oshaboy 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Hello World Stegfuck.png10]]" > 1622035793 232341 PRIVMSG #esoteric : as in for an independently rich amateur scientist who isn't bound by a university medical ethics community or peer-reviewed journals who will boycott them and make their whole carreer harder > 1622035885 263202 PRIVMSG #esoteric : people love to join the shitthrowing parties AFTER the real problems already took the place, and don't love to investigate what they were > 1622035985 349727 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the whole point of "investigation" and "finding the roots, the causes" seems to be not interesting > 1622036069 201672 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Oshaboy 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Cat program stegfuck.png10]]" > 1622036127 947243 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this mediawiki event doesn't have a link > 1622036151 51684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Oshaboy 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Lost kingdom StegFuck.png10]]" > 1622036320 518656 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83451 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+1152) 10Initial > 1622036341 257152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83452&oldid=83451 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (-7) 10 > 1622036413 682380 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83453&oldid=83452 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+8) 10 > 1622036552 391813 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh I already started installing netpbm to figure out his steganography but has already created a page > 1622036700 136963 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[074BOD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83454&oldid=83401 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+78) 10Added information about 1 of the instructions > 1622036881 124045 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83455&oldid=83453 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+2) 10Fixed dead links > 1622036918 517044 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83456&oldid=83455 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+0) 10 > 1622036926 694950 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83457&oldid=83456 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (-4) 10 > 1622038029 474494 PRIVMSG #esoteric : wtf > 1622038057 622564 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83458&oldid=83457 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+406) 10added extra information > 1622038084 103290 PRIVMSG #esoteric : #homebrew automatically kicks you while ##homebrew topic is Discussion on the domestic production of potable liquids > 1622038087 357765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Libera is weird > 1622038090 542017 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ☺ > 1622038208 192515 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Same founder on both, and I guess that's a valid interpretation of the word too... > 1622038246 22955 PRIVMSG #esoteric : netsplit.de's channel topic view suggests ##homebrew on freenode is also on that topic, and #machomebrew is the package manager. > 1622038270 990107 PRIVMSG #esoteric : What if I want to run my own software on a Nintendo DS > 1622038275 31814 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh indeed > 1622038339 195928 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb IIRC it's illegal > 1622038358 721215 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think it just voids the warranty and Nintendo doesn't like it > 1622038395 860453 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83459&oldid=83458 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+287) 10More details > 1622038409 617097 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but I wonder if it's legal to squat the #homebrew just to kick people with macs > 1622038487 184660 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83460&oldid=83459 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+9) 10link > 1622038501 667357 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Oshaboy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83461 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+4) 10Created page with "Heyo" > 1622038502 162137 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's like... they could not decide who should own #homebrew and made it like this > 1622038555 214233 PRIVMSG #esoteric : For the *concept* of homebrew on consoles, I think there's at least some more specific channels. But the package manager is just called "Homebrew". I doubt they have any registered trademarks or anything? > 1622038571 357604 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: was it actually called "#homebrew" previously on freenode? > 1622038590 898936 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas have no idea > 1622038592 142 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know there were apple homebrew guys on freenode, but I don't know if they used that particular channel name > 1622038594 477608 PRIVMSG #esoteric : AFAICT it's been called #machomebrew on freenode. > 1622038601 666250 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I keep reading that as macho me brew > 1622038606 576711 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think they used multiple channels (no surprised there) > 1622038610 103921 PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's #machomebrew now as fizzie said > 1622038621 403180 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Weightlifters drinking tea > 1622038642 829256 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well that makes sense then > 1622038665 972703 PRIVMSG #esoteric : presumably the folks on ##homebrew are used to lost people enough that they just direct them to the right place > 1622038669 656246 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but the software isn't and probably never was called machomebrew > 1622038677 208425 PRIVMSG #esoteric : like we used to with the other kind of esoterica > 1622038679 860183 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, that reminds me > 1622038682 253332 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what do we do with the > 1622038683 284190 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `welcome > 1622038687 294250 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) > 1622038687 857059 PRIVMSG #esoteric : message now? > 1622038689 855499 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The software's official twitter account is @MacHomebrew as well. > 1622038710 13658 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmmm > 1622038723 260024 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: I vote just removing the parenthetical > 1622038738 536305 PRIVMSG #esoteric : We are forwarding #esoteric into here, though. > 1622038740 305508 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb: ok, but it's tricky because there are copies in like ten languages > 1622038746 686155 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: oh yes, you have a point > 1622038756 704819 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: hmm, yeah, in that case it probably ought to stay > 1622038763 314538 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's not impossible that someone will join in search "for the other kind of esoterica", though probably quite unlikely. > 1622038787 659279 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess we'll seen in half a year > 1622038810 93098 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok maybe it was machomebrew initially, I missed that time probably > 1622038829 866241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : because their twitter is older than @homebrew one > 1622038861 686476 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Now I can't stop reading it as macho-me-brew. > 1622038865 721826 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `thanks Taneb > 1622038866 489654 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, Taneb. Thaneb. > 1622038961 929408 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `thanks HackEso > 1622038963 40940 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, HackEso. ThackEso. > 1622038984 121368 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `thanks fizzie > 1622038984 812353 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, fizzie. Thizzie. > 1622038992 442020 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `thanks brrrrr > 1622038993 539639 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thanks, brrrrr. Trrrrr. > 1622039044 685311 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :) > 1622039165 7673 PRIVMSG #esoteric : rust depends on python wtf > 1622039200 849342 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07StegFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83462&oldid=83460 5* 03Oshaboy 5* (+8) 10/* Overview */ > 1622039289 735662 PRIVMSG #esoteric : trying to figure out what to uninstall because homebrew updates EVERYTHING once in a while and it took half an hour; and I have no idea why two commands from SO to "draw a dependency tree" are so different but python is like covid here... https://dpaste.org/416M/slim#L > 1622039641 134255 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ruby doesn't use it > 1622039682 980276 PRIVMSG #esoteric : these are all needed to build ruby https://dpaste.org/416M/slim#L2281,2282,2283,2284,2285,2286 > 1622039709 140389 PRIVMSG #esoteric : why install through different package managers if there is one? > 1622039727 473087 PRIVMSG #esoteric : everything installs with brew > 1622039798 530657 PRIVMSG #esoteric : why do you think I need "to manage rust toolchain"? > 1622039869 666463 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "brew install rust" somehow was enough to then "rust install ..." or whatever it was to install some rust program that btw I'll probably deinstall now since I don't remember it even > 1622039922 93399 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess I didn't build rust from source and this "tree draw" command just fakes it > 1622039955 737493 PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically homebrew downloads everything precompiled for my current mac os version > 1622039984 948888 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://dpaste.org/416M/slim#L2281,2282,2283,2284,2285,2286,6384,6385,6386,6387,6388 > 1622039995 394448 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess this means right side is more correct < 1622040117 580247 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1622040184 454656 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I see, "This is similar to Ruby's rbenv, Python's pyenv, or Node's nvm." -- rustup docs > 1622040218 746830 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (nvm is actually was a clone of rvm, not rbenv but whatever) < 1622040376 106663 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 PART #esoteric :"Konversation terminated!" > 1622043470 514133 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hoped the visualization would make the tree more obvious, heh https://imgur.com/a/yclpTkR > 1622043540 496108 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Judging by what that looks like, that must be neato/fdp. Do it with dot instead: it'll be a lot more obvious, but a gigantic and full of blank space. > 1622043555 618545 PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw java has made "jenv" too now > 1622043569 984654 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: there's two images there and the first one looks dotty > 1622043572 181071 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie dot is upper one > 1622043606 335717 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: can you get it to drop edges implied by transitivity > 1622043627 620798 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sorry, I think the rectangle for it was shaped too much like an ad banner and I was blind to it. ;) > 1622043669 596949 PRIVMSG #esoteric : would be cool if there was a built-in graphviz filter that would concat "nodes that have the same set of ins and outs" with "\n" into a single node > 1622043704 586957 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Taneb I didn't process the graph myself, it's https://github.com/martido/homebrew-graph > 1622043806 409655 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ah > 1622043825 271266 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I seem to remember a force-directed graph vizualizer you could manually "shake" to untangle it, and then freeze the result, but I don't remember where that was. That's the kind of human/machine hybrid algorithms we need more of. (To convince the machines to keep us around.) > 1622043851 472327 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe one day they can 3D print that out of springs and you can try to physically sort it out. > 1622043906 423079 PRIVMSG #esoteric : did I tell about the "reconstruct cats" contest? > 1622043975 440489 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there was such contest on codeforces where there were thousands of shredded cat pics and you had to restore them; so IIRC lots of guys in top were making hybrids that you could "shake" a cat > 1622044002 634601 PRIVMSG #esoteric : unfortunately I can't code GUI > 1622044043 414197 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so my cats mostly looked like this https://codeforces.com/predownloaded/6f/ed/6feddc5ed6240a9e1e61b4b089c00e796bda163d.png > 1622044070 702385 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but it would be pretty much real to process all the cats because the contest lasted a month > 1622044097 31581 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: how do you even scan shredded photos? that sounds very hard > 1622044142 608675 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas they were accurately sliced in NxN pixels depending on the dataset > 1622044183 829011 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah, so digitally shredded to nice square blocks > 1622044201 320048 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Speaking of scanning, my former university had scanned my Master's thesis and sent me a link to verify it looks like what I wrote (+ a checkbox for e-publishing permissions). > 1622044225 848857 PRIVMSG #esoteric : All the pages were there, but there was a pretty noticeable broad brown smear exactly vertically across each page. > 1622044229 766389 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: nice, when is that Master's thesis from? didn't you already make it full digital? > 1622044230 117139 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas yeah > 1622044233 471791 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think they need to clean their scanning machine. > 1622044255 133633 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but what demotivated me and I stopped solving prematurely -- is that the chunks had resize kernel artifacts > 1622044272 735749 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the squares didn't connect ideally > 1622044280 838612 PRIVMSG #esoteric : there were bright and dark lines along the edges > 1622044298 708482 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think when I submitted my Master's thesis, they asked for a digital copy, and I published a digital copy in any case. I'm not sure if that was like mandatory, or if people were still allowed to make it partly non-digitally though. > 1622044333 135405 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so it was their fault actually -- they could resize and then cut but they cut and then resized > 1622044337 14181 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas: *I* made it digitally (of course), but even though it wasn't that long time ago (2009), it still predated their process revamp of accepting digital submissions, so the official approved version is the printed and bound book. > 1622044358 182058 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think post-2015 or so the official copy of record will have been the digital version. > 1622044368 430036 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I mean in my case the main copies were still printed and bound, but they asked a digital copy in addition > 1622044396 763675 PRIVMSG #esoteric : which makes sense, it's a pretty free and useful thing to do to ask for a digital copy > 1622044421 307611 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't have a thesis > 1622044422 536739 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, the FAQ of the scanning project said something about how they can't accept a better-quality digital version because for reasons™ the thing available in their database must be exactly what was inspected for approval. > 1622044428 578320 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't finish the university > 1622044444 749080 PRIVMSG #esoteric : was expelled for inability to run damn 3km in time > 1622044509 270040 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well yes, admittedly I also don't have the original version on public internet either, I have the version with the exactly one typo that I found a few months later fixed > 1622044563 363693 PRIVMSG #esoteric : My thesis was awful and I kind of wish I had the opportunity to try again > 1622044588 298594 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I do not have a copy to hand > 1622044751 479333 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well sure, my thesis is bad too > 1622044758 924988 PRIVMSG #esoteric : most people's master's thesis is > 1622044785 802158 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mine especially so, I was not having a good time mental health wise and sought help way too late > 1622044806 623512 PRIVMSG #esoteric : So handed in 12 pages of rubbish and somehow passed > 1622045303 565625 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Alee 5* 10New user account > 1622045423 587983 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83463&oldid=83436 5* 03Alee 5* (+88) 10/* Introductions */ > 1622045449 629910 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Alee14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83464 5* 03Alee 5* (+13) 10write intro > 1622045633 546702 PRIVMSG #esoteric : AIUI I could put any version I like on the public web if I want (not that I think anyone would find it very interesting), this was specifically the university wanting to make their library's publication archive ("full text materials produced in the university, such as theses, journal articles, conference publications and research") include this old stuff too, I think covering all theses from 1960-2015 or > 1622045639 538326 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so. > 1622045650 992638 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The FAQ also says something about it freeing up valuable archival space, which might be the real motivation here. < 1622046371 406935 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1622046822 230896 :Guest75150!uid500518@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdywjrmelrzpszem PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i guess everyone is on libera < 1622047017 312969 :nakilon!~nakilon@62.241.154.104.bc.googleusercontent.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they forced me! < 1622047075 698614 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1622047784 772321 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: yeah. old thesis are one of the hardest to find references to track down in libraries, though that's usually about PhD thesis, and they want to continue that tradition < 1622048111 145544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your #channel wasn't `+spimf ##channel`d by freenodecom, it doesn't count as forcing. ;) < 1622048130 397240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really would like to know what their tooling would have done given that ##esoteric is already +f #esoteric here, but I guess there's bound to have been a lot of those channels, so it was probably accounted for. > 1622048394 436892 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wouldn't be so sure < 1622048423 113527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1622048431 149119 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PART :#esoteric < 1622049094 884810 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1622049149 243746 PRIVMSG #esoteric : int-e: they say that a hacker named david once slew a giant. he was such a shabby monk to dinner? he invites the very devil, a founding member of the yellowish linen whereof those of the triumph of morgoth elves and men were allies and held aloft the sacred icon. the denticles on its skin muted the whoosh of its body around in such a shabby monk to dinner? he invites the very devil, an army general invited the buddhist monk, mo > 1622049177 882 PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can also have it ignore all mentions of your name, which is not going to be at all confusing. > 1622049188 527977 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though I'm not sure how long we'll be keeping the bridge for. < 1622049357 886866 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1622049381 225624 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think the main argument for is, it's a way to let any returning old-time regulars (who might have missed all the excitement) to know about this place. We do get some every now and then. Though it's discoverable via other means (wiki, logs page) too. > 1622049479 24367 PRIVMSG #esoteric : excitement > 1622049565 582595 PRIVMSG #esoteric : output: "73 39 109 32 97 108 105 118 101 33 ", exit code: 0 > 1622049570 637370 PRIVMSG #esoteric : damn < 1622049591 24515 :carterisonline!49555546@c-73-85-85-70.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1622049613 487985 :carterisonline!49555546@c-73-85-85-70.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit > 1622049636 987439 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The word EVILAPEEK_OS appears in that noisy bot's source code (in the error message if setting SO_KEEPALIVE fails). > 1622049822 220892 PRIVMSG #esoteric : enough amount of funge code might have all the magic words you need to spawn something evil < 1622049913 698586 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1622049945 995630 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1622049947 51803 :HackEso!~h@unaffiliated/fizzie/bot/hackeso JOIN :#esoteric > 1622050287 488816 PRIVMSG #esoteric : privmsg it > 1622050292 282295 PRIVMSG #esoteric : or notice > 1622050431 371723 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I need the ignore list to be printable in order to copy it back to the config file because persistence is hard. ;) I can make the bridge commands respond by privmsg, I made them public mostly so that people can learn how it works by osmosis. Also, if we don't keep the bridge up it'll also stop being a problem. < 1622050675 593556 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric > 1622050697 343437 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SF Code14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83465&oldid=83446 5* 03JaydenIrwin 5* (+42) 10updated toggle description < 1622050761 871688 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-112-4.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1622050874 184258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07SF Code14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83466&oldid=83465 5* 03JaydenIrwin 5* (+92) 10sf symbols link < 1622051311 153770 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1622051676 542211 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Even on news.software.readers they write about abandoning Freenode (for the IRC about slrn), too. > 1622051806 806851 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think that the bridge could be discarded soon, and the logs then being fully on this IRC only. I don't know how soon; that is up to whoever set it up > 1622051917 263243 PRIVMSG #esoteric : imgur refused to eat these images now > 1622051920 274935 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://imgchest.com/p/pagyvmeky89 > 1622051980 778611 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so joining them in groups gave no much profit > 1622052054 832143 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm, actually those huge groups in the corner don't look right > 1622052058 289874 PRIVMSG #esoteric : bug < 1622052189 230411 :olsner!~salparot@c83-249-186-43.bredband.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1622052207 770973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1622052223 946276 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622052239 832037 :olsner!~salparot@c83-249-186-43.bredband.tele2.se PART :#esoteric < 1622052420 446048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PART :#esoteric < 1622052521 888606 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1622052881 343129 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: I expect the proposed "remove edges implied by transitivity" (while not exactly trivial to express) trick could help declutter the dot version more, since it's particularly those edges that are a problem. Though it's not exactly representing the same thing at that point, because there's a difference in directly depending on something vs. transitively depending on something. > 1622052922 702616 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie I'm afraid I don't really understand the "remove edges implied by transitivity" > 1622052954 241434 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't have master thesis ..D > 1622052958 753975 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: Well, for example, your graph has the edges vips -> libexif, libeexif -> gettext but also vips -> gettext. > 1622052974 761617 PRIVMSG #esoteric : That last edge could be removed, because vips -> gettext is implied by the first two. > 1622052983 417753 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah, I see > 1622053017 979364 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It may or may not really help enough to be worth the trouble, and again it'd give a bit of a skewed picture. > 1622053021 497906 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'll do that after I finish this one > 1622053066 702505 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Because removing the edge makes the output imply if you make vips no longer depend on libexif, it doesn't need a gettext dependency either, which isn't true.) > 1622053410 834417 PRIVMSG #esoteric : IME, in large build dependency graphs an interesting way to get still-understandable output is to focus on the question "why exactly does building X depend on Y" (where you pick a particular pair X, Y of interest), and then find all the edges and nodes that are in any path between those two, and keep only those. It gives you a visual indication of whether it's just one weird dependency in the wrong place > 1622053416 827930 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's pulling the rest in, or whether it's something more systematic. > 1622053786 97612 PRIVMSG #esoteric : seems like datastructure {node->[node, node, ...], node->[ .. ], ...} sucks > 1622053815 397577 PRIVMSG #esoteric : gotta convert it do [[node1, node2], [node1, node3], ... ] < 1622053990 326987 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1622054061 80000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1622054211 760944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1622055039 457633 :LKoen!~LKoen@73.245.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1622055496 434827 :abraham!~abraham@193.36.225.14 JOIN :#esoteric > 1622056108 763505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CatCatDeluxe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83467&oldid=80754 5* 03CatCatDeluxe 5* (-4) 10 > 1622056120 780511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:CatCatDeluxe14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83468&oldid=83467 5* 03CatCatDeluxe 5* (+1) 10 > 1622056147 488568 PRIVMSG #esoteric : looks like #help here now is a place for politics and shit > 1622056196 930843 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not saying they ircops don't help when someone asks; I mean the channel looks opened for flame currently > 1622056241 858600 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The *help* channel is supposed to be #libera, that's what the topic of #help says. > 1622056257 947014 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though #libera is, unsurprisingly, full of the same sort of discussions. > 1622056275 826964 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I'm just there to lurk to get some idea about the community registration queue.) < 1622056397 356714 :abraham!~abraham@193.36.225.14 QUIT :Killed (tildes.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)) > 1622056552 998753 PRIVMSG #esoteric : could anyone advice something on representing all generalized circles (so, lines and circles) uniformly? Let’s say I have a thing which applies inversions to them and it shouldn’t try to distinguish lines from circles (and use different algorithms and representations: we’re dealing with floating point, that’d be a wrong decision!) > 1622056666 539511 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what? > 1622056764 348432 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I heard something about conformal embedding or like that but I don’t know where to read something clear about that. Like projective or affine stuff goes one dimension higher, this one should (if I’m not mistaken) go up two. And there’s something with null cone and projecting parabolas from it to lines and I’m afraid of that all and don’t want to rediscover it at all > 1622056823 807862 PRIVMSG #esoteric : int-e: do you represent some line and circle segments in your Möbius visualizations BTW? > 1622056861 359325 PRIVMSG #esoteric : my context is the same: I think about applying Möbius transformations to generalized circles in a safe and rational manner > 1622056910 879389 PRIVMSG #esoteric : would we go up a dimension, I’d need to make something about generalized spheres too > 1622056926 518309 PRIVMSG #esoteric : thankfully I’m not that greedy yet! > 1622056954 621933 PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh right I’ll go frighten ##math > 1622056960 891992 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: alright, I'll bite. generalized circles? > 1622056971 763037 PRIVMSG #esoteric : isn't that just a single value in all dimensions, distance? > 1622056980 17158 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i.e radius. < 1622057031 31993 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 JOIN :#esoteric > 1622057081 786154 PRIVMSG #esoteric : rasengone: even in the circle case, we need to specify not just radius, but also its center. A line needs two points. But these ways aren’t unified at all > 1622057120 191962 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: that's interesting. > 1622057130 896599 PRIVMSG #esoteric : are lines not special cases of circles? > 1622057141 450943 PRIVMSG #esoteric : where the cut point is specified. > 1622057208 277121 PRIVMSG #esoteric : in geometries which admit inversion (like this Möbius group) they are all the same, of course, but that doesn’t help by itself, it just reinforces the desire to represent them unified > 1622057303 890873 PRIVMSG #esoteric : well that's the thing, you can specify them by two points, still. > 1622057316 394894 PRIVMSG #esoteric : or three, rather. > 1622057330 932087 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but that won’t be unique > 1622057337 590650 PRIVMSG #esoteric : lemme think about this. > 1622057338 987842 PRIVMSG #esoteric : though that might be a good start > 1622057342 445740 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I feel there’s no way around that conformal cone stuff but I don’t want to google it potentially for hours > 1622057366 780206 PRIVMSG #esoteric : b_jonas adviced a neat projective book but it’s just about that > 1622057724 652500 PRIVMSG #esoteric : now grouping looks correct https://i.postimg.cc/LmccZFTV/image.png and https://i.postimg.cc/6KcBFTzJ/image.png > 1622057739 710478 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but dot render became larger > 1622058100 433845 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv: what if you used a space-filling loop. > 1622058113 97965 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and defined lines as normalized segments of that loop. > 1622058125 943648 PRIVMSG #esoteric : dunno, just spitballing. < 1622058308 130752 :tromp!~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1622058544 333039 PRIVMSG #esoteric : rasengone: hm > 1622058595 749032 PRIVMSG #esoteric : everything is either a line or a circle. > 1622058746 655009 PRIVMSG #esoteric : BTW I suddenly think I realized the basic principle there! I read something like that in physics books, the conformal geometry of the sky sphere or something. So it I get that as they intended, we take the null cone that’s alright. But then we treat null lines in it as points, like we did with projective geometry, but in this case just those lines and no other ones. They are the points of the sky sphere, it transforms conformally under Lorentz transf > 1622058746 854077 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ormations (which fix the null cone) > 1622058776 748668 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and now we stereographically project that sky sphere onto a plane > 1622058776 949599 PRIVMSG #esoteric : bam it’s the plane which we want to describe > 1622058845 219155 PRIVMSG #esoteric : though I don’t yet have stereographic transform sufficiently internalized. It’s hard to me to work with it, to write anything at all in linear algebra terms > 1622058859 940715 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I also opened that projective book, maybe it contains some clues too! > 1622058931 700492 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the idea “sky sphere → stereographic projection” seems palatable though. And I’m almost sure that is what I seek; circles on the sphere map to generalized circles on the plane > 1622058987 894949 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think I came up with 3 algorithms for the "transitive reduction" but all they fuck up the rhombuses > 1622058996 961143 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and they can grow and shrink and so any single gen. circle can map to any other gen. circle, which should be possible, a sanity check > 1622059009 716250 PRIVMSG #esoteric : nakilon: do you do something with graphs? > 1622059018 609183 PRIVMSG #esoteric : sorry didn’t logread < 1622059021 158772 :upupbb-user2!~puppy@190.79.207.219 JOIN :#esoteric > 1622059056 600568 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arseniiv guys proposed to apply transitive reduction to https://i.imgur.com/MV6S0BH.png > 1622059241 914855 PRIVMSG #esoteric :