←2021-05-28 2021-05-29 2021-05-30→ ↑2021 ↑all
00:13:32 <esowiki> [[Milk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83583&oldid=83569 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) /* Implementations */ Total
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00:53:53 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83584&oldid=83582 * S1(210) * (+2956) /* Feature Specification */
00:56:27 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83585&oldid=83584 * S1(210) * (+53) /* My own bad python interpreters */
00:57:59 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83586&oldid=83585 * S1(210) * (+124) /* Implementations */
00:58:14 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83587&oldid=83586 * S1(210) * (+1) /* Implementations */
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01:07:53 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83588&oldid=83587 * S1(210) * (+30) /* Implementations */
01:11:46 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83589&oldid=83588 * S1(210) * (+24) /* Hello World */
01:12:47 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83590&oldid=83589 * S1(210) * (-15) /* Truth Machine */
01:36:43 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83591&oldid=83590 * S1(210) * (+221) /* Feature Specification */
01:37:53 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83592&oldid=83591 * S1(210) * (+82) /* Overview */
01:38:46 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83593&oldid=83592 * S1(210) * (+0) /* Overview */
01:48:22 <esowiki> [[Undefined behavior (language)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83594&oldid=83543 * Ais523 * (+235) this is implemented, and has been since computers were invented
01:57:00 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83595&oldid=83593 * S1(210) * (+150) /* My own python-based interpreter */
01:57:25 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83596&oldid=83595 * S1(210) * (-33) /* My own python-based interpreter */
02:17:04 <esowiki> [[Computerdeutsch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83597&oldid=77947 * S1(210) * (-2) /* Type conversion */ schlich for floats means neutral, not feminine
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02:49:56 <esowiki> <salpynx> Is there a (short) public domain/CC0 somewhat standard "Hello World!" for interactive fiction, for testing IF engines?
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03:19:07 <esowiki> <zzo38> I don't know. Can you elaborate about what you require, specifically?
03:21:35 <esowiki> <salpynx> I was looking for a simple recognisable scenario that could demonstrate a few branching choices, and at least one ending (possibly more), very simple but with more than one path.
03:23:25 <esowiki> <salpynx> For an esolang idea that sub-TC, but could do a passable attempt at implementing IF style paths and end points
03:24:36 <esowiki> <salpynx> Correctly implementing a playable and recognisable scenario would be the proof that it works as intended, and can at least perform that function.
03:25:38 <esowiki> <salpynx> I could create my own scenario, but recreating an existing one seems more suitable for a proof of ability
03:26:57 <esowiki> <salpynx> basically being in a room with a desk and locked door, opening the drawer, getting the key and leaving the room to win would suffice. I feel like I have seen that
03:32:34 <esowiki> <salpynx> If interactive fiction has a Hello World or Lorem Ipsum, or whatever the term is, I'd want to use that.
03:33:10 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fungot, have you ever played the piano so fast that the limit becomes how slowly the keys return to their unpressed state after you release pressure on them? and if so, have you had the piano retuned to a scale that doesn't have all 12 notes in the octave but some notes duplicated?
03:33:10 <esowiki> <fungot> b_jonas: if you drop it for yourself. ( the leprechaun is not a number of people who said they had acquired stealth and craft, but with no greater success.
03:35:07 <esowiki> <salpynx> fungot, what is a simple IF scenario I could use to test an implementation (and what are your license terms)?
03:35:07 <esowiki> <fungot> salpynx: a priest can get a genuine amulet of yendor: no one is quite sure which. and the caves of the flies" is a misery.
03:35:39 <esowiki> <salpynx> wow, that's pretty good. I was thinking it needed to start in a room or a cave.
03:35:59 <esowiki> <salpynx> I'm going to save that.
03:42:00 <esowiki> <salpynx> `` rev <<< Yendor
03:42:01 <esowiki> <HackEso> rodneY
03:47:15 <esowiki> <salpynx> ^style
03:47:16 <esowiki> <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
03:52:13 <esowiki> <salpynx> I think Yendor, from Rogue, is PD. NetHack licensing seems more complicated. In the absence of a standard scenario, I might just run with Fungot's babble, and the Rogue reference will give it some recognisability, and is PD like I wanted.
03:53:41 <esowiki> <salpynx> `? Büchi
03:53:43 <esowiki> <HackEso> Büchi? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:18:30 <esowiki> <zzo38> I think that the idea of finding a key to open the door is good enough
04:24:34 <esowiki> <salpynx> qn2; is there a standard notation for a countably infinite alphabet, Σ? Σ<superscript> denotes sets of words. Σ = {v0, v1, ...} I think expresses what I need, but is there a shorter or clearer form?
04:52:36 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83598 * Mase * (+1964) Created page with "An esolang where you can modify the inital state of the circular, 16 value tape before the program is run. Contains brainfuck-like syntax, minus the loops. Because there are n..."
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04:54:02 <Sgeo[m]> Testing
04:54:24 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83599&oldid=83598 * Nailuj29 * (+3)
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05:00:33 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83600&oldid=83599 * Aspwil * (+198)
05:01:16 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83601&oldid=83600 * Aspwil * (+4) /* Hello World */
05:02:30 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83602&oldid=83601 * Aspwil * (-15) /* Hello World */
05:05:25 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83603&oldid=83602 * Mase * (+68)
05:06:53 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83604&oldid=83603 * Aspwil * (+40) /* Hello World */
05:10:37 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83605&oldid=83604 * Mase * (+316)
05:10:59 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83606&oldid=83605 * Mase * (+0)
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06:13:56 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83607&oldid=83606 * Mase * (-1140)
06:21:57 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83608&oldid=83607 * Mase * (+0)
06:30:29 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83609&oldid=83608 * Mase * (+0)
07:12:15 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TeamLightning * New user account
07:14:31 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83610&oldid=83575 * TeamLightning * (+183) /* Introductions */
07:15:16 <esowiki> [[User:TeamLightning]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83611 * TeamLightning * (+156) Created page with "Hey there, I'm TeamLightning and i write stuff in Python. --~~~~"
07:39:06 <esowiki> [[PainLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83612 * TeamLightning * (+2290) Created page with "==Overview== PainLang is basically [[Brainf***]] but written in and writes Python and has one less core command (7 excluding comments and debug). It was written by ~~~~ due to..."
07:40:18 <esowiki> <ais523> !tell salpynx \mathbb{A} is sometimes used for a countably infinite set whose elements can be compared for equality (with two distinct elements being unequal) but have no other defined properties, that seems to fit what you're looking for
07:41:23 <esowiki> [[PainLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83613&oldid=83612 * TeamLightning * (+81)
07:45:28 <esowiki> <ais523> @tell salpynx \mathbb{A} is sometimes used for a countably infinite set whose elements can be compared for equality (with two distinct elements being unequal) but have no other defined properties, that seems to fit what you're looking for
07:45:28 <esowiki> <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:04:03 <esowiki> <zzo38> When making up a cryptographic hash algorithm, can it be helpful to compute also a secondary hash (perhaps with a different block size) and append that at the end of the message (as a part of the padding which also specifies the length of the message)? (The secondary hash also uses a different algorithm)
08:04:55 <esowiki> <salpynx> This might give me what I need for demonstrating choice : Choice of Plausible Alternatives (COPA) for AI research, BSD licensed: https://people.ict.usc.edu/~gordon/copa.html#:~:text=The%20Choice%20Of%20Plausible%20Alternatives,sets%20of%20500%20questions%20each.
08:05:19 <esowiki> <salpynx> found via an interactive fiction related paper: https://roemmele.github.io/publications/ICIDS17.pdf
08:16:31 <esowiki> <salpynx> `unidecode 𝔸
08:16:33 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​[U+1D538 MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL A]
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08:25:53 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Wasif * New user account
08:37:01 <esowiki> <nakilon> SWT displays only up to 41 buttons lol https://i.imgur.com/3K6b7qX.png
08:37:13 <esowiki> <salpynx> ais523: thanks for the 𝔸 ( \mathbb{A} ) tip. It has me thinking that I do require an _ordered_ set (total rather than partial) and it seems alphabets in formal language theory ... don't care either way about ordering, which is interesting and something I hadn't thought about before. I'd assumed an alphabet was ordered, but ordered vs unordered
08:37:13 <esowiki> <salpynx> alphabets seem like quite different things. I'll look into that further.
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09:13:09 <esowiki> <nakilon> currently in chrome when you select multiple tabs and right click it gives option "add to reading list" and "create new group" and I don't know what are these and why are they there
09:13:57 <esowiki> <nakilon> but I'm definitely sure no one likes that they've removed the "create a bookmarks folder" from there
09:30:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:Wiki Cyclic Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83614&oldid=8539 * Salpynx * (+520) Relation to CSS TCness
09:35:27 <esowiki> <arseniiv> hi
09:39:01 <esowiki> <nakilon> hi
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09:55:28 <esowiki> <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/NUcyebv.png
09:57:12 <esowiki> <river> lol
10:15:59 <esowiki> <nakilon> is brainfuck expanding the tape when needed both to left and right?
10:21:32 <esowiki> <tromp> that's implementation dependent
10:22:31 <esowiki> <salpynx> from the wiki page > Negative memory addresses should NOT be assumed to exist, however, an interpreter may provide some. (An optimising interpreter may be forced to)
10:27:20 <esowiki> <nakilon> then I'll assume all basic examples of brainfuck don't use negative memory
10:27:40 <esowiki> <nakilon> that would simplify my RASEL implementation of it
10:29:31 <esowiki> <nakilon> higher address will be deeper in stack, otherwise I would need either to test for negativity to push and nulify the pointer or leak the memory like mad on every BF step in that direction
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10:33:50 <esowiki> <salpynx> I had a recollection of there being a Hello World example that required negative cells, it's there on the wiki "by primo" from a codegolf.stackexchange. I think an implementation not supporting that is fine and is more standard.
10:34:40 <esowiki> <salpynx> ^bf --<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>]<<--.<++++++.<<-..<<.<+.>>.>>.<<<.+++.>>.>>-.<<<+.
10:34:40 <esowiki> <fungot> Hello, World!
10:35:25 <esowiki> <salpynx> I wasn't expecting that to work.
10:36:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> is it using negatives?
10:36:40 <esowiki> <salpynx> still, just because fungot does something doesn't mean anyone else should.
10:36:40 <esowiki> <fungot> salpynx: shopkeepers have incredible patience. she is usually depicted as wearing a ring of teleportation: it is the same tribunal in the dungeon. though not dangerous in and of laufey. loki is the property of fortune cookies, inc.
10:37:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> ^bf +[]
10:37:12 <esowiki> <fungot> ...out of time!
10:37:13 <esowiki> <salpynx> the first three shifts are left shifts
10:37:31 <esowiki> <nakilon> oh indeed
10:37:50 <esowiki> <salpynx> four shifts in fact
10:38:07 <esowiki> <nakilon> ^bf +[<+]
10:38:21 <esowiki> <nakilon> fungot
10:38:21 <esowiki> <fungot> nakilon: shopkeepers don't mind you bringing your pets in the struggle. perhaps the weasel knows the basilisk's deadly gaze, and commending himself most devoutly to his sister and maintained that she should impart the secrets of the waves he received by lot at the gaming board on the station every afternoon to wait for his powerful magic item hidden in a bag.
10:38:41 <esowiki> <nakilon> hah, he failed to respond -- did it "crash"?
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10:45:12 <esowiki> <fizzie> It has a wrapping tape and wrapping cells, with pretty small limits, so that's technically an infinite loop.
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10:45:22 <esowiki> <fizzie> I would still have expected it to run out of time though.
10:45:40 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think possibly 8-bit cells and a tape length of a 1000.
10:45:59 <esowiki> <nakilon> oh so he did stop
10:46:12 <esowiki> <fizzie> I sort of feel as if the original implementation used a wrapping (64k) tape too.
10:47:09 <esowiki> <nakilon> ^bf +[<+] --<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>]<<--.<++++++.<<-..<<.<+.>>.>>.<<<.+++.>>.>>-.<<<+.
10:47:10 <esowiki> <fungot>
10:47:17 <esowiki> <nakilon> okay
10:49:04 <esowiki> <tromp> if tape length 1000 is still considered a valid BF impl, then what's the minimum?
10:49:07 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, it's 1000 cells of 8 bits, and 1000000 steps of execution. I guess that's just barely enough for +[<+] to increment all of them enough that one wraps over.
10:49:39 <esowiki> <tromp> surely tape length 1 would be considered too little (does simplify shifting though:-)
10:50:24 <esowiki> <fizzie> A three-cell tape is famously enough to be TC, as log as the values are unbounded.
10:51:13 <esowiki> <fizzie> s/log/long/
10:53:16 <esowiki> <nakilon> 256k per 4 instruction had to be more than 1mln limit
10:53:38 <esowiki> <fizzie> The loop is only 3 instructions, the way it counts them.
10:53:48 <esowiki> <fizzie> <, + and ], which jumps back to the <.
10:54:38 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^bf +[<+<>]
10:54:39 <esowiki> <fungot> ...out of time!
10:54:50 <esowiki> <fizzie> That would be too much though.
10:55:26 <esowiki> <fizzie> I remembered the limit as being 100k instead of 1M, but I probably bumped it up because there was something interesting that didn't quite run.
10:56:02 <esowiki> <fizzie> (Also, +++++ would be a single instruction in terms of that limit.)
10:56:33 <esowiki> <nakilon> ^bf +[<+-+]
10:56:34 <esowiki> <fungot> ...out of time!
10:57:50 <esowiki> <nakilon> ^bf +[+.]
10:57:50 <esowiki> <fungot> .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ ...
10:58:03 <esowiki> <nakilon> rip your logs
10:58:29 <esowiki> <fizzie> It's certainly not the first "all bytes" message we've had.
10:58:35 <esowiki> <immibis> at least it strips \r and \n and prevents command injection
10:58:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> ^bf +[+.] +[+.] +[+.] +[+.] +[+.] +[+.] +[+.] +[+.] I wonder about max length
10:58:44 <esowiki> <fungot> .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ ...
10:58:48 <esowiki> <immibis> for some reason \x16 seems to make the rest of the message inverted colours for me
10:59:17 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, ^V does that quite often.
10:59:20 <esowiki> <fizzie> It's also underlined for me.
10:59:47 <esowiki> <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/TomV619.png
10:59:52 <esowiki> <fizzie> from the ^_ control character
10:59:52 <esowiki> <immibis> ^bf ++++++++++++++++.[-]--<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>]<<--.<++++++.<<-..<<.<+.>>.>>.<<<.+++.>>.>>-.<<<+.
10:59:52 <esowiki> <fungot> Hello, World!
10:59:59 <esowiki> <immibis> ^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]--<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>]<<--.<++++++.<<-..<<.<+.>>.>>.<<<.+++.>>.>>-.<<<+.
10:59:59 <esowiki> <fungot> Hello, World!
11:00:25 <esowiki> <fizzie> Heh, I didn't remember implementing strikethrough formatting in the HTML converter.
11:02:25 <esowiki> <fizzie> Potentially I should also convert invalid UTF-8 to U+FFFD in the prettified formats. But then someone'd complain it's not true to the original.
11:03:20 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^def tmp bf +++---+++
11:03:20 <esowiki> <fungot> Defined.
11:03:22 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^show tmp
11:03:22 <esowiki> <fungot> +3-3+3
11:04:05 <esowiki> <fizzie> I've no idea why I didn't fold consecutive arbitrary sequences of +-s and <>s together, rather than just doing the per-instruction-type run-length encoding.
11:05:42 <esowiki> <fizzie> I guess maybe that's just because that's something the programmer can already do on their side.
11:08:23 <esowiki> <salpynx> all of the bots here handle that negative cell example, F*ngot, HackEso, and lambdabot
11:08:57 <esowiki> <salpynx> @bf --<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>]<<--.<++++++.<<-..<<.<+.>>.>>.<<<.+++.>>.>>-.<<<+.
11:08:57 <esowiki> <lambdabot> Hello, World!
11:09:06 <esowiki> <salpynx> `! bf --<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>]<<--.<++++++.<<-..<<.<+.>>.>>.<<<.+++.>>.>>-.<<<+.
11:09:07 <esowiki> <HackEso> Hello, World!
11:10:05 <esowiki> <salpynx> I was hoping to see the output of that code where the left shifts couldn't work
11:11:09 <esowiki> <fizzie> I feel like usually if < off the left edge is not allowed, it just terminates the program.
11:16:30 <esowiki> <nakilon> fizzie so if fungot translating the bf to befunge?
11:16:30 <esowiki> <fungot> nakilon: hu*h*eto*l, minion of huhetotl: huehuetotl, or ettin, is a spotted red. the streets were broken and the four men, of golden daffodils; beside the lake now lives in a clear cold voice. ' behold, i go to my profession. ( the colour of magic, by diana wynne jones)
11:16:34 <esowiki> <nakilon> *is
11:16:50 <esowiki> <nakilon> and the translator is implemented in befunge?
11:16:55 <esowiki> <fizzie> Not really, no. It just translates into an intermediate bytecode.
11:17:24 <esowiki> <nakilon> <CTCP>ACTION changed nickname to huehuetotl<CTCP>
11:17:51 <esowiki> <fizzie> There's a parser that goes from the source representation to that, and then an interpreter that runs it; ^bf does both, while ^def bf ... just does the first step and leaves the second when you invoke the defined command.
11:18:06 <esowiki> <salpynx> https://copy.sh/brainfuck has 3 memory overflow behaviours: undefined (fast), wrap, abort. Undefined gives garbage output, wrap works, abort gives a sensible warning and terminates, as you said.
11:19:01 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^def tmp bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
11:19:01 <esowiki> <fungot> Defined.
11:19:05 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^show tmp
11:19:05 <esowiki> <fungot> +
11:19:25 <esowiki> <salpynx> Ah, I had assumed / hoped fungot's interpreter was implemented in befunge
11:19:25 <esowiki> <fungot> salpynx: latest news? put `rec.games.roguelike.nethack' in the cracks and it seemed to him asked, " hey guys, *wield* a lizard, which one's real? xander: no one knows why this is true, but it was light enough to enter, and the wolf did not take place, perhaps it was overheard or repeated by an exploding tin.
11:19:28 <esowiki> <fizzie> Also wrapped that % 256, because the cells do.
11:19:32 <esowiki> <fizzie> salpynx: It is, yes.
11:20:43 <esowiki> <fizzie> Approximately lines 355-376 (brainfuck source to that bytecode format) and 298-310 (bytecode interpreter) of https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 if you want to see them.
11:20:43 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: chromatic dragon, cut her body in two. the food with his claws and poison sting.
11:21:29 <esowiki> <fizzie> Likewise for ^ul, the Underload interpreter, except there the intermediate format is pretty much the same as the source text.
11:21:35 <esowiki> <salpynx> ^def tmp2 bf --<-<<
11:21:35 <esowiki> <fungot> Defined.
11:21:41 <esowiki> <salpynx> ^show tmp2
11:21:41 <esowiki> <fungot> -2<-<2
11:22:13 <esowiki> <fizzie> I had a standalone "development" version of at least the underload one, but I don't think I've got a copy of the bf one not embedded in the bot.
11:23:18 <esowiki> <fizzie> I feel like -2 is "really" a +254 and I just disambiguate when printing, maybe.
11:23:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^def tmp bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
11:23:33 <esowiki> <fungot> Defined.
11:23:37 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^show tmp
11:23:37 <esowiki> <fungot> -2
11:23:39 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yep.
11:24:29 <esowiki> <fizzie> There's six instructions in the bytecode, and it's actually documented in the comments, lines 438-446.
11:24:53 <esowiki> <fizzie> Well, seven if you count the marker at the end.
11:27:24 <esowiki> <salpynx> ^def tmp2 bf [-][+]+
11:27:24 <esowiki> <fungot> Defined.
11:27:33 <esowiki> <salpynx> ^show tmp2
11:27:33 <esowiki> <fungot> [-][+]+
11:27:43 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, no, it's not a proper optimizing thing.
11:27:52 <esowiki> <fizzie> I don't even have a "set value" opcode.
11:31:12 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^ul ((Underload, the language of easy quines)!aS(^:)S):^
11:31:12 <esowiki> <fungot> ((Underload, the language of easy quines)!aS(^:)S)^:
11:31:37 <esowiki> <salpynx> I think I misunderstood "Not really, no. It just translates into an intermediate bytecode."
11:32:05 <esowiki> <fizzie> Yeah, that was an answer to the "is it translating the bf into a befunge" question, not the "is it implemented in befunge" one.
11:32:52 <esowiki> <immibis> cat has easier quines
11:32:57 <esowiki> <immibis> but it's not turing-complete
11:33:02 <esowiki> <salpynx> Right, so there is a befunge bf interpreter in fungot, but it doesn't work by translating bf -> befunge
11:33:02 <esowiki> <fungot> salpynx: a katana might slice a worm in two. the waves to the carpet, where his eye. they are the devil's work.
11:33:08 <esowiki> <nakilon> $ echo "-" | ruby bf_translator.rasel
11:33:08 <esowiki> <nakilon> :03--::\1-1\1-\$@
11:33:15 <esowiki> <nakilon> ..\
11:34:34 <esowiki> <fizzie> The Brainfuck-on-Befunge-98 and Underload-on-Befunge-98 X's on https://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters link to our bot's source code. Hmm, maybe they should link to its wiki page instead.
11:34:50 <esowiki> <fizzie> Also, I don't think that style works too well, let's stick with the standard.
11:34:54 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^style irc
11:34:54 <esowiki> <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
11:37:10 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83615&oldid=83522 * B jonas * (-154) make the move to libera/#esolangs almost official
11:37:40 <esowiki> [[EsoInterpreters]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83616&oldid=82808 * Fizzie * (-88) /* Main table */ Link to wiki article instead of directly to source.
11:39:04 <esowiki> <nakilon> does the amount of letters in table cell mean an amount of different implementations?
11:39:19 <esowiki> <nakilon> oh those are links
11:42:37 <esowiki> [[Esolangs (irc)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83617 * B jonas * (+859) Created page with "'''esolangs''' is an IRC bot maintained by fizzie that supports the official esoteric languages community IRC discussion channel. It usually uses the nick "esolangs" on the l..."
11:43:09 <esowiki> [[Esowiki]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83618 * B jonas * (+28) Redirected page to [[Esolangs (irc)]]
11:43:22 <esowiki> <nakilon> what does "Part of cycle" mean?
11:43:23 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83619&oldid=83615 * B jonas * (+25)
11:45:19 <esowiki> <salpynx> fungot: ▬▬ι═══════ﺤ 🪱②.♒ 䋬 ,👁.😈J.
11:45:19 <esowiki> <fungot> salpynx: it's been ages since i have done
11:45:21 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think it's used just by the Bub/Brainfuck pair, but it's supposed to denote a case where you can build an arbitrarily long thing out of X-on-Y-on-X-on-Y-on-..., or A-on-B-on-C-on-A-on-...
11:45:21 <esowiki> [[Velik]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83620 * B jonas * (+249) Created page with "'''velik''' is an IRC bot maintained by [[User:Nakilon]] that evaluates the [[RASEL]] fungeoid language. It was created in 2021-05. It is resident on the libera/#esolangs ch..."
11:45:50 <esowiki> <fizzie> I don't think the table's rich enough to show all the possible cycles though.
11:46:22 <esowiki> <fizzie> Someone could take that as an adjacency matrix of a DAG and convert it into a graph though.
11:49:08 <esowiki> <nakilon> _^^
11:49:49 <esowiki> <b_jonas> salpynx: I'd say use one of those mazes made of six rooms where every room has an indistinguishable description, each one has exits in eight cardinal directions, one of which takes you to the next room and eight takes you back to the very first room, the player has three or four objects that they can drop or take to figure out where they are, and you win after the correct exit of the last room which
11:49:55 <esowiki> <b_jonas> goes outdoors.
11:50:22 <esowiki> [[Esolangs (irc)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83621&oldid=83617 * Fizzie * (+80) Add source link
11:54:19 <esowiki> <salpynx> b_jonas: Those mazes are annoying, and familiar, and that's a good idea. I think that will challenge what I have in mind, so is a good test case, thanks!
12:00:52 <esowiki> <nakilon> heh https://dpaste.org/oRzr/slim
12:01:56 <esowiki> <nakilon> oh idk why the extension is rasel, that's a mistake, should be rb
12:02:53 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Epidemic7 * New user account
12:03:17 <esowiki> <fizzie> Oh, that reminds me, I need to restart that to fix a tiny little logging bug.
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12:03:49 <esowiki> <salpynx> .rb could be confused with Ruby
12:04:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> really?
12:07:25 <esowiki> <salpynx> oh wait, that code is ruby I thought the RASEL extension was .rb , ignore that
12:08:28 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83622&oldid=83610 * Epidemic7 * (+209) /* Introductions */
12:10:30 <esowiki> <salpynx> I had been keeping brainfuck and befunge extensions separate in my head, handling another pair of languages starting with the same letter (r) clearly broke me.
12:12:53 <esowiki> <nakilon> there was .rbw for wxWidgets apps years ago, then .rbi for idk what, now .srb for static type annotation files
12:13:09 <esowiki> <nakilon> pretty sure that's only a half of the zoo
12:16:53 <esowiki> [[User:Epidemic7]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83623 * Epidemic7 * (+297) Created page with "Hello, I'm Epidemic7 / Epidem7c / EHGDTPSTLA. (Don't ask about the last one, it's a acronym and a long story.) I like making esolangs that are: One Dimensional Data Tape Styl..."
12:18:05 <esowiki> [[User:Epidemic7]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83624&oldid=83623 * Epidemic7 * (+36)
12:18:55 <esowiki> <nakilon> salpynx you forgot the stringmode instruction ..D
12:23:39 <esowiki> <salpynx> \rasel Z:::+,++,@
12:23:40 <esowiki> <velik> output: "", exit code: 255
12:24:15 <esowiki> <salpynx> nakilon: I was trying to use the base36 numbers to set ASCII, why didn't that work?
12:24:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> you probably want : before ,
12:25:01 <esowiki> <nakilon> at least before the first one
12:25:16 <esowiki> <nakilon> \rasel Z:::+:,++,@
12:25:17 <esowiki> <velik> output: "", exit code: 255
12:25:20 <esowiki> <nakilon> hm
12:26:01 <esowiki> <fizzie> Oh, https://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX was that thing I was thinking of when we had that discussion the other day about whether it's cheating to use netcat/socat when doing an IRC bot in an esolang that does only stdin/out.
12:26:05 <esowiki> <fizzie> I still don't think it's cheating, but PSOX would arguably be a more esoteric way of going about it.
12:26:36 <esowiki> <nakilon> oh
12:26:47 <esowiki> <nakilon> salpynx there is no "+" in RASEL ..D
12:26:50 <esowiki> <nakilon> only "-"
12:27:16 <esowiki> <salpynx> I've off-by-one errored in my attempt, which is frustratingly annoying, because if Z = 36, "Hi" would be easy to output
12:27:33 <esowiki> <salpynx> ah -- my second mistake!
12:28:05 <esowiki> <salpynx> I honestly thought it was some wiki quoting thing that swallowed the + char
12:30:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> \rasel 918//,L15//,0@
12:30:39 <esowiki> <velik> output: "Hi", exit code: 0
12:31:19 <esowiki> <salpynx> oh, you beat me, that's what I was just working towards :P
12:31:49 <esowiki> <salpynx> was just trying to get the correct sequence of divisions
12:32:11 <esowiki> <salpynx> nice though :)
12:33:32 <esowiki> <nakilon> \rasel L15//:v-,,0@
12:34:30 <esowiki> <nakilon> not sure why it timed out
12:34:53 <esowiki> <nakilon> ah, sure
12:34:56 <esowiki> <nakilon> \rasel L15//:V-,,0@
12:35:00 <esowiki> <velik> output: "Ji", exit code: 0
12:35:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> \rasel L15//:X-,,0@
12:35:12 <esowiki> <velik> output: "Hi", exit code: 0
12:35:27 <esowiki> <nakilon> \rasel L15//:X-,,@
12:35:32 <esowiki> <velik> output: "Hi", exit code: 0
12:39:24 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Marius is taken * New user account
13:01:40 <esowiki> <nakilon> when ?> ; append.call "01--"
13:01:40 <esowiki> <nakilon> when ?< ; append.call "1-:01--?@"
13:02:01 <esowiki> <nakilon> this is basically the safe "<"
13:02:52 <esowiki> <nakilon> it calls @ with negative on the top of the stack so exits with code 255
13:03:16 <esowiki> <nakilon> now the hardest part: ], [
13:05:48 <esowiki> <salpynx> \rasel HI::/\15//D-,16//3-,0@
13:05:49 <esowiki> <velik> output: "Hi", exit code: 0
13:06:55 <esowiki> <salpynx> I'm too tired to optimise that further, not sure if there's a way to input 2d source
13:07:04 <esowiki> <nakilon> isn't ::/ same as 1 ?
13:07:41 <esowiki> <salpynx> yes, but I wanted to delimit the initial HI from the rest of the code as much as possible
13:07:52 <esowiki> <nakilon> yeah, there is no way to input 2d source but you can use '?' and 'j' to make a one-liner
13:08:08 <esowiki> <nakilon> you could use spaces
13:09:33 <esowiki> <salpynx> For some reason the feature that appeals to me most is the ability to avoid string mode completely, and just use b36. The lack of + and * was an unexpected challenge :)
13:10:04 <esowiki> <nakilon> all as planned
13:11:50 <esowiki> <salpynx> also non-wrapping cells meant I addition can't be done with -, and non-integer cells and no ability (AFAICT) to round down to integers for character output was another fun obstacle
13:13:21 <esowiki> <nakilon> didn't understand the first part
13:13:54 <esowiki> <nakilon> but you might be able to floor by :1%-
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13:22:17 <esowiki> <salpynx> yes
13:22:18 <esowiki> <salpynx> \rasel H4H//::.1%-,0@
13:22:20 <esowiki> <velik> output: "72.25 H", exit code: 0
13:22:46 <esowiki> <salpynx> vs an exit code 255 trying to output 72.25 as a character
13:46:41 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: what? I thought you added a way to input 2d source by adding some character that is a synonym to the newline
13:47:14 <esowiki> <nakilon> b_jonas that was only an idea
13:47:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> \rasel Z,@
13:47:38 <esowiki> <velik> output: "#", exit code: 0
13:47:50 <esowiki> <b_jonas> \rasel v>Z,@¶>^
13:49:23 <esowiki> <nakilon> timeout
13:49:50 <esowiki> <nakilon> oh you mean that's a character? ..D
13:51:42 <esowiki> <b_jonas> not necessarily
13:51:50 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you could pick a different character
13:51:55 <esowiki> <b_jonas> that's just an example
13:54:47 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I mean you're defining this language, so you're picking the specific syntax
13:55:15 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you've already picked it for the other new instructions like the new swappeek or whatever that's called
13:55:22 <esowiki> <b_jonas> swappick
13:55:36 <esowiki> <b_jonas> swappeek would be for memory addresses, this is for the data stack
13:56:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> "defining this language" -- not the language though but a bot interface but yeah, I'll probably go with the same how I made -stdin
13:57:04 <esowiki> <nakilon> at least not swapdick
13:57:06 <esowiki> <nakilon> swapn
13:57:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> why? why would you put that feature only in the bot interface rather than the language?
13:57:33 <esowiki> <b_jonas> that would just make incompatible versions of your language for no good reason
13:58:05 <esowiki> <b_jonas> unless you, like, expect that good mnemonic characters as instruction names will be scarce or something
13:58:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> are there any fungeoids that have a special "one-liner conversion syntax"
13:59:31 <esowiki> <nakilon> the line break character is already defined and it's \n, it's just IRC's "fault" it can't handle it
13:59:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I refuse, it's not "special syntax" because newlines aren't special, it's just multiple equivalent characters
13:59:43 <esowiki> <nakilon> some multiline chat would do
14:00:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> no, IRC uses that character for something else of significance, and for something useful too, unlike \r and \x00 which it just reserves for not much reason
14:01:42 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you could say that it's IRC's fault, but python's current syntax is inconvenient in contexts other than IRC too, exactly because it requires newlines, so it's hard to say a short python program in-line in a paragraph of text, on a webpage or printed book
14:01:57 <esowiki> <nakilon> how do other bots here implement multiline?
14:02:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> we can fix that in python, I have an idea that I should perhaps implement, though the hard part is not implementing it but documenting it properly
14:02:10 <esowiki> <salpynx> \rasel 91D//:1-:5-:1-:7-:1-,4\,,2\,1\,,@
14:02:13 <esowiki> <velik> output: "fungot", exit code: 0
14:02:26 <esowiki> <nakilon> ruby also judges ";" the same as "\n"
14:02:39 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: not quite the same, but you can program ruby without newlines
14:02:39 <esowiki> <nakilon> ..D
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14:03:27 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the same can be said about javascript and haskell, and there are evaluation bots for both on freenode
14:03:53 <esowiki> <b_jonas> brainfuck and underload in fungot just require trivial substitutions
14:03:53 <esowiki> <fungot> b_jonas: swap x with y is always equal to whatever x is equal to
14:04:07 <esowiki> <nakilon> salpynx hah, you built the array monotoneous and then traversed it in another order, right?
14:04:18 <esowiki> <salpynx> yup
14:04:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> and perlbot lets you use compose to pass any string that you generate from any command as argument any other command, so that way you can pass newlines:
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14:06:19 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot compose @eval @eval qq|for (65..90) {\n\t$c .= chr;\n}\nprint $c|``
14:06:21 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: ERROR: syntax error at (IRC) line 2, near ".="
14:06:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot compose @eval @eval qq|for (65..90) {\n\t\$c .= chr;\n}\nprint \$c|``
14:06:32 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
14:06:50 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the inner eval prints a perl program that contains newlines, the outer eval interprets that perl program
14:07:06 <esowiki> <b_jonas> of course perl doesn't care too much about newlines so this particular example is silly, but still
14:07:24 <esowiki> <simcop2387> but it does lead to monstrosities like the tempconv factoid
14:07:30 <esowiki> <simcop2387> perlbot: literal tempconv
14:07:30 <esowiki> <perlbot> simcop2387: <*:##NULL> P:macro tempconv is `eval %f=(`fact _tempconv_units!);`fact _tempconv_newton!;`fact _tempconv_init!;$in=`quote d `arg!!;if($in=~/(?<v>[\-+]?\d+(?:\.\d+)?(?:ee?[\-+]?\d+)?)(?:\s*°)?\s*(?<u>$ur)/i){($v,$u)=@+{v,u};$c=$f2{fc$u}->($v);join" = ",map{$q=d($_);(eval{inv($f2{$q},$c)}//"UND ").$_}sort{d($a)cmp d($b)} keys%f}else{"Not supported, use ".join(", ",sort{d($a)cmp d($b)}keys%f)}!
14:07:39 <esowiki> <simcop2387> perlbot: tempconv 27C
14:07:41 <esowiki> <perlbot> simcop2387: 27.00°C = 109.50°D = 80.60°F = 4.56e-03GM = 300.15K = 8.91°N = 540.27R = 21.60°Ré = 21.68°Rø = 53.80°€
14:08:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the general idea of unquoting things with eval can be useful when programming perlbot
14:08:45 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it's an esoteric invention that I'm proud of
14:08:54 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I should actually mention it on the wiki userpage
14:09:19 <esowiki> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83625&oldid=76586 * B jonas * (+28)
14:10:24 <esowiki> <nakilon> b_jonas compose is bot's command, not perl's, right?
14:11:03 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: yes
14:11:32 <esowiki> <nakilon> but you advice me to put it into the language implementation rather than bot xyntax
14:11:34 <esowiki> <nakilon> *s
14:11:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> *specification
14:12:55 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the five commands, compose quote eval fact arg, together turn out to be universal in a sense, they together let you run any program that can invoke any sequence of buubot commands, store state, decisions between them, and define macros that can do that when invoked
14:13:52 <esowiki> <nakilon> \help rasel
14:13:52 <esowiki> <velik> \rasel <RASEL code>; \rasel -stdin <any char><stdin><same char><RASEL code>; don't forget the '@' instruction or it will timeout; timelimit=30s; https://esolangs.org/wiki/RASEL
14:14:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, sandbox technology was basic back then, so we couldn't have easily changed the sandbox of the eval command that runs a perl interpreter to be able to invoke buubot commands. and even if we could make it invoke buubot commands, that would be less esoteric and easier to program than this horrible mess.
14:14:50 <esowiki> <nakilon> I don't see a reason not to implement it as a \rasel -n<any char>[<code><same char>,...]
14:15:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: but note that the characters that IRC don't allow aren't really useful in a perl program. at best they can help encode string literals that have those characters, or heredocs.
14:15:36 <esowiki> <nakilon> also considering that "n" isn't a valid RASEL instruction and so raises the error so the "-n" clearly reads as "aha, it's a bot flag"
14:15:43 <esowiki> <b_jonas> if the main interpreter was a language that needed newlines, we would probably have done something about that
14:16:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> or... maybe not?
14:16:34 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I mean we had a jeval there at some point (that's also my fault) and it only accepted a single line
14:16:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> hmm
14:19:02 <esowiki> <nakilon> the only [a-z] instruction is "j"
14:19:19 <esowiki> <nakilon> though maybe if it's the only one maybe it should be changed to some other char too
14:19:54 <esowiki> <nakilon> that would even allow lowercase base36 for some reason
14:20:35 <esowiki> <nakilon> ah, nope, the "v"
14:31:43 <esowiki> <nakilon> `which xxd
14:31:44 <esowiki> <HackEso> No output.
14:33:26 <esowiki> <b_jonas> no, you should reserve the other lowercase stuff for future extensions
14:34:55 <esowiki> <b_jonas> like use a-g to load and push seven named numeric registers, and k-q to pop store to them
14:35:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> or whatever else you want to add
14:35:48 <esowiki> <nakilon> I don't like the registers idea because the "seven" would be a magic artificial limit number
14:36:04 <esowiki> <nakilon> while RASEL provides unlimited stack, precision, etc.
14:36:11 <esowiki> <b_jonas> an instruction to get the stack depth so you can use absolute pointers to the stack
14:36:17 <esowiki> <b_jonas> or something
14:36:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> IO stuff, more arithmetic
14:37:45 <esowiki> <b_jonas> anyway, you don't have to add them now, you can keep them reserved for *future* extensions
14:38:12 <esowiki> <nakilon> is there no analogue of xxd in hackeso?
14:38:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> dunno, but you can install anything
14:38:39 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `whatis xxd
14:38:40 <esowiki> <HackEso> xxd: nothing appropriate.
14:38:46 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` type xxd
14:38:47 <esowiki> <HackEso> bash: line 0: type: xxd: not found
14:39:03 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I usually just use perl for that sort of thing
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14:41:21 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `perl -eprint pack H99,"I068656c6c6f2c20776f726c64"
14:41:21 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​ hello, world.....................................
14:41:24 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `perl -eprint pack H99,I068656c6c6f2c20776f726c64
14:41:25 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​ hello, world.....................................
14:43:31 <esowiki> <b_jonas> you can also use base64 instead of hex, or python instead of perl, etc
14:44:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> $ echo "+++[-.]" | ruby bf_translator.rb | rasel | xxd -p
14:44:12 <esowiki> <nakilon> 020100
14:44:36 <esowiki> <nakilon> probably made the loop, now need something nested
14:49:51 <esowiki> <nakilon> yay
14:49:54 <esowiki> <nakilon> $ echo "++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++." | ruby bf_translator.rb | rasel
14:50:03 <esowiki> <nakilon> Hello World!
14:50:53 <esowiki> <nakilon> but the "+[-->-[>>+>-----<<]<--<---]>-.>>>+.>>..+++[.>]<<<<.+++.------.<<-.>>>>+." just hangs -- is it just slow?
14:51:10 <esowiki> <nakilon> \bf +[-->-[>>+>-----<<]<--<---]>-.>>>+.>>..+++[.>]<<<<.+++.------.<<-.>>>>+.
14:51:15 <esowiki> <nakilon> ^bf +[-->-[>>+>-----<<]<--<---]>-.>>>+.>>..+++[.>]<<<<.+++.------.<<-.>>>>+.
14:51:15 <esowiki> <fungot> Hello, World!
14:51:18 <esowiki> <nakilon> hm
14:51:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> oh it's probably doing %256
15:05:35 <esowiki> <nakilon> https://github.com/Nakilon/rasel/blob/8b725636e9f84cb60c7eb1763936ca1c348f1066/examples/bf_translator.rb
15:08:21 <esowiki> <fizzie> `! bf_txtgen Hello, World!
15:08:24 <esowiki> <HackEso> 118 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>+++<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>-.<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+. [458]
15:08:30 <esowiki> <fizzie> ^bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>+++<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>-.<++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.
15:08:30 <esowiki> <fungot> Hello, World!
15:08:38 <esowiki> <fizzie> Not quite as optimal though.
15:08:42 <esowiki> <salpynx> \rasel PI::/\1F//K-1\2D//4-/1A1A1A1A1A1A///////////:2\1\/:1%-1:\//.@
15:08:43 <esowiki> <velik> output: "3.141592 ", exit code: 0
15:09:43 <esowiki> <salpynx> tomorrow I'll try to figure out how to remove the repetitions by changing dir and doing jumps. It's hard to debug in IRC chat :)
15:10:44 <esowiki> <fizzie> (bf_txtgen output will always start with a +{n}[(>+{n}){4}] to set 4 "best" constants, followed by a sequence of ><+-. to do the output. Even when it doesn't actually need 4 constants.)
15:10:59 <esowiki> <fizzie> `! bf_txtgen X
15:11:01 <esowiki> <HackEso> 32 +++++++++++[>++++++++>>><<<<-]>. [70]
15:11:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> +{n}[(>+{n}){4}<{4}-], I mean.
15:12:56 <esowiki> <nakilon> salpynx lol
15:13:53 <esowiki> <nakilon> salpynx you can install ruby and gem or launch docker image ruby:alpine and install gem there
15:16:14 <esowiki> <nakilon> fizzie ><
15:17:00 <esowiki> <nakilon> that's just bot's face when he's trying hard
15:18:27 <esowiki> <salpynx> \rasel PI::/\1F//K-1\2D//4-/1A/A/A/A/A/A/:2\1\/:1%-1:\//.@
15:18:28 <esowiki> <velik> output: "3.141592 ", exit code: 0
15:18:42 <esowiki> <salpynx> that's an obvious optimisation
15:26:25 <esowiki> <nakilon> %256 didn't help, probably that "the shortest" helloworld also uses nagetive addressing
15:37:43 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? fourier
15:37:45 <esowiki> <HackEso> fourier? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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15:58:20 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I wonder if you can take Fourier series to prove the Copernican model right by computing what epicycles the planets move on
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16:17:10 <esowiki> <HackEso> slap? No such file or directory
16:22:05 <esowiki> <b_jonas> @slap cd
16:22:05 <esowiki> <lambdabot> <CTCP>ACTION smashes a lamp on cd's head<CTCP>
16:22:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot slap cd
16:22:30 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [selfish] [slap] [self] [celebs] [solaris] [surveys] [alpaca] [ellipse] [globs] [gloves]
16:22:36 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot slap
16:22:36 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: Saboted Light Armor Piercing
16:24:03 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83626&oldid=83596 * S1(210) * (+30)
16:24:28 <esowiki> <lambdabot> go slap b_jonas ow yourself
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16:28:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot macro slap can has (echo (nick &n) slaps (eval (arg d)||"perlbot") on the head with a (eval (qw"herring trout baguette mapole","garden hose")[rand 5]))
16:28:02 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: Stored slap can has (echo (nick &n) slaps (eval (arg d)||"perlbot") on the head with a (eval (qw"herring trout baguette mapole","garden hose")[rand 5]))
16:28:06 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot slap cd
16:28:06 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: Compose failed to find a plugin named: nick
16:28:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot macro slap can has (echo (arg &n) slaps (eval (arg d)||"perlbot") on the head with a (eval (qw"herring trout baguette mapole","garden hose")[rand 5]))
16:28:14 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: Stored slap can has (echo (arg &n) slaps (eval (arg d)||"perlbot") on the head with a (eval (qw"herring trout baguette mapole","garden hose")[rand 5]))
16:28:17 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot slap
16:28:18 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: Compose failed to find a plugin named: qw"herring
16:28:45 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot macro slap can has `echo `arg &n' slaps `eval `arg d'||"perlbot"' on the head with a `eval (qw"herring trout baguette mapole","garden hose")[rand 5]''
16:28:45 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: Stored slap can has `echo `arg &n' slaps `eval `arg d'||"perlbot"' on the head with a `eval (qw"herring trout baguette mapole","garden hose")[rand 5]''
16:28:48 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot slap
16:28:50 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: b_jonas slaps perlbot on the head with a herring
16:28:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot slap cd
16:28:54 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: b_jonas slaps cd on the head with a herring
16:28:58 <esowiki> <b_jonas> perlbot slap
16:29:01 <esowiki> <perlbot> b_jonas: b_jonas slaps perlbot on the head with a mapole
16:29:07 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ok so it's not always a herring
16:29:15 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I was afraid I messed up the rand
16:30:05 <esowiki> <b_jonas> well I was more lucky when I demonstrated a random coin flip a few days ago
16:30:22 <esowiki> <b_jonas> as an exmaple statement to make a point about how J can't be compiled
16:30:31 <esowiki> <b_jonas> it managed to give the right coin flips like three times
16:34:54 <esowiki> <fizzie> Where's that whole "mapole" thing from, anyway?
16:34:57 <esowiki> <fizzie> `? mapole
16:34:59 <esowiki> <HackEso> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
16:35:13 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I think it was some kind of wisdom thing
16:35:30 <esowiki> <fizzie> I associate it with oerjan somehow, but that might just be a red herring.
16:35:44 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd /hackenv/wisdom; grep -REli mapole .
16:35:46 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​./boily \ ./amphiboily \ ./thwackamacallit \ ./corkscrew \ ./swatter \ ./mapole \ ./userweps \ ./rdococ \ ./brontosaurus
16:35:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? boily
16:35:54 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world kafkaesque.
16:36:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? swatter
16:36:05 <esowiki> <HackEso> The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles.
16:36:06 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? rdococ
16:36:08 <esowiki> <HackEso> rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words.
16:36:09 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? brontosaurus
16:36:11 <esowiki> <HackEso> A brontosaurus is an ancient mythological creature. They were well known for having mapoles for teeth.
16:37:02 <esowiki> <b_jonas> `? mroman
16:37:03 <esowiki> <HackEso> mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare.
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16:42:34 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83627&oldid=83626 * S1(210) * (+912) /* Recursion and Nonreducing Groups */
16:44:07 <esowiki> <fizzie> `? thwackamacallit
16:44:09 <esowiki> <HackEso> A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole.
16:44:23 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83628&oldid=83622 * Hypocritical * (+66) /* Introductions */
16:44:29 <esowiki> [[Discordlang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83629 * Hypocritical * (+43) Created page with "'''''Discord-Lang!''''' '''Coming soon!'''"
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16:46:20 <esowiki> <fizzie> It says BOTTOM in all caps right on the line before, how do you not notice? Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter.
16:48:36 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fizzie: you can't make people on the internet read warnings
16:48:53 <esowiki> <b_jonas> or instructions or anything
16:50:10 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83630&oldid=83627 * S1(210) * (-107) /* Adder */
16:51:31 <esowiki> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83631&oldid=83188 * Tomhe * (+21)
16:53:22 <esowiki> <nakilon> so optiimizing the +/- chains improved size of the resulting helloworld from 4029 to 2017
16:54:19 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Shane Paton * New user account
16:57:36 <esowiki> <nakilon> the resulting code is https://dpaste.org/asko/slim
16:57:42 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83632&oldid=83628 * Shane Paton * (+59)
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17:12:24 <esowiki> [[User:Camto]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83633&oldid=66666 * Camto * (-19) It's actually been back alive for a while now.
17:38:14 <esowiki> [[User:Nakilon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83634&oldid=83447 * Nakilon * (+71) about velik
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17:58:49 <esowiki> [[RASEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83635&oldid=83433 * Nakilon * (-224) described language goals; linked velik
18:06:59 <esowiki> [[Velik]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83636&oldid=83620 * Nakilon * (+602) commands usage examples (moved from RASEL page); links
18:07:24 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83637&oldid=83632 * Fizzie * (+192) Seriously though, the instructions are right there.
18:11:05 <esowiki> <nakilon> the "instructions were not enough clear" meme
18:13:07 <esowiki> <fizzie> I accidentally added talk-thread style `--`s myself, because the immediately preceding introductions had one. Though to be fair, that's what comes out of the sign button by default.
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18:41:58 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Crain * New user account
18:44:22 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * NickDev-1666 * New user account
18:50:21 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83638&oldid=83637 * NickDev-1666 * (+164) /* Introductions */
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19:08:29 <esowiki> <HackEso> print_args_or_input "$@" | pikhqbow
19:08:58 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​ELF............>.....d@.....@.................@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@........................................@......@............................................@.......@.....4......4........ ............8......8`.....8`.....H......X........ ...........P......P`.....P`......................................@.....@.....D.......D..............Ptd...X......X@.....X@.....,.......,..............Q
19:11:03 <esowiki> <HackEso> 8746:2016-07-05 <pikḧq> ` gcc -Os -s src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow \ 8744:2016-07-05 <pikḧq> ` gcc -Os -s src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow \ 8742:2016-07-05 <pikḧq> ` gcc src/pikhqbow.c -o bin/pikhqbow
19:11:14 <esowiki> <pikhq> oh god i definitely don't
19:11:17 <esowiki> <HackEso> 99.sh \ bob.c \ brainfuck.fu \ ciol \ ciol.c \ daoyu.c \ egobot.tar.xz \ emmental.hs \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ fizziecoin.jpg \ fueue.c \ grph.c \ hello2.c \ hello3.c \ hello.c \ maze.c \ orenbow.c \ pikhqbow.c \ ploki \ ploki- \ u8tbl.c \ ul.emm
19:11:22 <esowiki> <pikhq> hey, there we are
19:11:24 <esowiki> <HackEso> ​#include <stdio.h> \ #include <wchar.h> \ #include <locale.h> \ int main(){wint_t c;int a=0;setlocale(LC_ALL,"C.UTF-8");b:c=fgetwc(stdin);if(c==EOF) return 0;printf("\x03%d%lc%s",(int[]){4,8,9,11,12,13}[a],c,c==L','?"\x0f":"",c);if(++a==6)a=0;goto b;}
19:11:57 <esowiki> <pikhq> no worries :)
19:18:31 <esowiki> <nakilon> `` du -sh .
19:18:32 <esowiki> <HackEso> 30M.
19:24:33 <esowiki> <HackEso> gcc (Debian 8.3.0-6) 8.3.0 \ Copyright (C) 2018 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
19:27:09 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83639&oldid=83609 * Mase * (+278)
19:38:04 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83640&oldid=83639 * Mase * (+19)
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19:39:04 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83641&oldid=83640 * Mase * (+89) /* Truth machine */
19:39:17 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83642&oldid=83641 * Mase * (-21) /* Hello World */
19:39:39 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83643&oldid=83630 * S1(210) * (-81) /* Adder */
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19:40:59 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83644&oldid=83643 * S1(210) * (-26) /* Triangular Number */
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19:42:17 <esowiki> [[DeBruijn]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83645&oldid=83644 * S1(210) * (+99) /* Triangular Number */
19:46:27 <esowiki> <HackEso> gcc: error: src/pikhqbow.c: No such file or directory \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated.
19:46:37 <esowiki> <HackEso> No output.
19:48:30 <esowiki> <fizzie> Doing `du -sh` in . misses all the version-controlled part, because $CWD is in /hackenv/tmp to start with.
19:48:35 <esowiki> <fizzie> Doing it in /hackenv inside umlbox takes too long to be feasible, but it's about 750M all in all.
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20:28:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> why not docker?
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20:55:41 <esowiki> <fizzie> I have a printer I've set up "properly", but when I turn on the printer, some automagical thing creates a second instance of it, and then I have to remember which one's the one that actually works.
20:57:16 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think it's the original one.
20:57:50 <esowiki> <fizzie> I think I gave the new one a try on the assumption that if it clever enough to create it automatically, it's clever enough to make a working one as well, but it wasn't.
20:58:01 <esowiki> <fizzie> Or else it's possible both would work. But they're definitely different.
21:06:58 <esowiki> <nakilon> <CTCP>ACTION does not know why everyone have printers<CTCP>
21:10:25 <esowiki> <zzo38> I have a trouble with printer on my computer (maybe it is a hardware problem though), so instead when I want to print, I print it on a different computer
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21:55:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> int-e: back with my pentium 2 compaq home computer and Epson matrix printer, I could only print from Linux if I started DOS first and then started Linux with loadlin from that. DOS did some magic and without that the printer didn't initialize, you could even tell from the status light on the printer.
21:56:50 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: I don't have any now; if I want to print, I can just go to a copy shop with self-serving printing. if it were for work then I could use the office printer, but I don't need to print anything for work.
21:57:41 <esowiki> <b_jonas> the office printers have some magic too for what you have to do to set up drivers to use them, but as a software guy, I never need to use them
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23:57:15 <esowiki> [[Moditape]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83646&oldid=83642 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) /* Reference Interpreter (Written in C, yes the code is bad) */ Cats
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