00:19:24 <esowiki> [[Talk:Neural Brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84067 * Caenbe * (+214) Created page with "==s Command== This is Turing complete, if the s command is allowed to be a [[Spoon]] implementation that maps programs to their output. ;) ~~~~"
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00:36:49 <esowiki> [[Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84068&oldid=84061 * Caenbe * (+25) This seems to be more accurate given the examples.
00:37:03 <esowiki> [[Fuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84069&oldid=84068 * Caenbe * (+0)
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00:54:08 <esowiki> [[User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84070&oldid=78013 * Not applicable * (+443)
00:58:30 <esowiki> [[User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84071&oldid=84070 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+222) /* HelVM */ Reply
00:59:30 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84072&oldid=83801 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+171) /* Test */ new section
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03:53:53 <esowiki> <nakilon> I found how to get the value 129 in RASEL using 7 instructions without 0..9A..Z
03:54:19 <esowiki> <nakilon> previous 7 long way to do it was C1B//3-
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04:49:17 <esowiki> <nakilon> Comments should be written in baby talk whenever possible. /* We truncy-wuncate the stringy-wingy we were given and we push-push-push it onto the stacky-wacky, don't we? Yes we do! Yes we do! */
04:49:31 <esowiki> <nakilon> (c) Chris Pressey
04:50:11 <esowiki> <nakilon> stacky-wacky-based language
04:54:09 <esowiki> <nakilon> I agree with all these points: https://programmers.blogoverflow.com/2012/08/20-controversial-programming-opinions/
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05:07:04 <esowiki> <zzo38> I also agree with what is written there
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06:13:01 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * GotCubes * New user account
06:13:41 <esowiki> [[Talk:Nellephant]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84073&oldid=65275 * Zzo38 * (+377) Regular expression output
06:16:26 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84074&oldid=84005 * GotCubes * (+224) /* Introductions */
07:00:58 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84075&oldid=83994 * Nakilon * (-11) /* Ruby */ this is very debatable
07:09:22 <esowiki> <nakilon> the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Tape article says "See Category:Cell-based for more tape-based esolangs. " that is in my opinion confusing
07:10:49 <esowiki> <nakilon> the tape in brainfuck and the program space in befunge are different things; in brainfuck the moving pointer is accesing the data while in befunge it's accessing the instructions
07:11:40 <esowiki> <nakilon> while that data access in befunge is random, not using the left/right instructions but p and g
07:12:14 <esowiki> <nakilon> I think it's a mistake to call the befunge program space an analogue of tape
07:13:20 <esowiki> <nakilon> wiki is synonymizing them
07:23:58 <esowiki> <u32[m|gr]> ／!\ ΤᎻΙЅ СНᎪΝNEL ΗАS MOVᎬᎠ ᎢⲞ ΙRϹ.LΙᗷΕRΑ．ϹHAT ﹟HAᎷRΑᎠIO /ⵑ\
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08:00:41 <esowiki> <Taneb> nakilon: I think I disagree. If I saw a language that's like brainfuck but with random access instructions, I'd think it's very like brainfuck, and if I saw a language like befunge, but with a program space data pointer that you can move about, I'd think it's very like befunge
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08:04:07 <esowiki> <nakilon> yes, because the brainfuck tape and befunge space are different things
08:05:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> that's why I see no reason to have the link to "cell-based" saying "to read more about tape-based" (and vise versa)
08:06:03 <esowiki> <Taneb> I don't think they're very different things at all
08:07:03 <esowiki> <nakilon> tape means you have a pointer than you instruct to shift its position by delta
08:07:04 <esowiki> <Taneb> Only from a distance :(
08:07:18 <esowiki> <nakilon> cell-basedness says nothing about the pointer
08:10:36 <esowiki> <nakilon> in brainfuck the data pointer and the instruction pointer are different things, operating isolated; in befunge they are mixed together by using the program space as memory
08:11:32 <esowiki> <nakilon> befunge isn't more tape-based than C
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11:05:21 <esowiki> [[Talk:Newton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84076&oldid=84057 * Grs * (-63)
11:19:28 <esowiki> [[Talk:Newton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84077&oldid=84076 * Grs * (+922) Added Hello World! program
11:33:34 <esowiki> <fizzie> I agree that fungespace doesn't feel particularly tape-y, but I don't think the fact that it merges the data and instruction pointers together is what makes the difference.
11:33:39 <esowiki> <fizzie> There are a number of brainfuck flavors that do the same (make the "data pointer" also operate on the program itself), and those are just as "tape-based" as regular brainfuck.
11:33:42 <esowiki> <fizzie> Anyway, the "see Category:Cell-based for more tape-based esolangs" doesn't imply that all languages in the category would be tape-based; it just says there are some tape-based ones in it, which can't really be argued against, when probably half of them (exaggerating, but not by much) are derivatives of brainfuck, *the* tape-based language.
11:37:45 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Magnogen * New user account
11:43:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84078&oldid=84074 * Magnogen * (+191) /* Introductions */
11:54:08 <esowiki> [[User:Magnogen]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84079 * Magnogen * (+751) Created page with "Hey! My name's Magnogen, but you can call me Mag - my friends call me that anyway. I like to code, even though it causes my great pain sometimes. I've been making a few prog..."
11:54:29 <esowiki> [[User:Magnogen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84080&oldid=84079 * Magnogen * (+3)
11:54:49 <esowiki> [[User:Magnogen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84081&oldid=84080 * Magnogen * (+4)
11:54:59 <esowiki> [[User:Magnogen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84082&oldid=84081 * Magnogen * (+1)
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12:02:27 <esowiki> <fizzie> Hah, the X.509 subject identifier of the certificate you-know-who uses to connect contains the component "O = Fungot Engineering", and I had completely forgotten putting it there.
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12:37:57 <esowiki> <nakilon> there was a CS:GO skin few years ago in Steam Market that costed $0.1, I was thinking about buying a thousand of them
12:38:09 <esowiki> <nakilon> now they cost $17 ..\
12:40:31 <esowiki> <nakilon> maybe I had to make a script to keep track of those but I didn't bother to
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13:31:44 <esowiki> <nakilon> fizzie do threads in funge-98 have own stacks?
13:34:59 <esowiki> <nakilon> or is it only one
13:36:45 <esowiki> <nakilon> I guess it's one and threads are just pointers, hm
13:47:54 <esowiki> [[OLNMLN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84083&oldid=84048 * Grs * (+369)
13:56:13 <esowiki> <oerjan> <nakilon> I guess it's one and threads are just pointers, hm <-- that sounds like it would be hard to program
13:58:03 <esowiki> <oerjan> i don't, should i be happy? :P
14:01:22 <esowiki> <oerjan> . o O ( maybe it deadlocked )
14:56:30 <esowiki> <fizzie> nakilon: No, each thread has a separate stack.
14:56:59 <esowiki> <fizzie> nakilon: It's the (lesser-known) Befunge-97 or -96 (I forget which) where each thread shares the same stack, and doesn't even get its own stack pointer.
14:57:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> Or more precisely, separate stack -> separate stack stack.
14:58:39 <esowiki> <fizzie> https://quuxplusone.github.io/Fungus/docs/spec98.html#Concurrent "When a child IP is borne unto Funge-Space thus, its location, storage offset, and stack are all copied verbatim from the parent IP's."
14:58:53 <esowiki> <fizzie> "In Concurrent Funge, IP's are sometimes called threads and each has its own location, delta, and stack."
15:01:14 <esowiki> <fizzie> I feel like the fact that -97's shared stack was practically impossible to program (you'd have to cycle-count everything to prevent the separate IPs from trampling all over what they're doing) is why 98 is the one that really "made it".
15:01:25 <esowiki> <fizzie> https://catseye.tc/article/Languages.md#befunge-97 "Befunge-97 was an unimplemented attempt to design a successor to Befunge-93. The design, however, was not successful — it has been described as "brain-damaged" — primarily due to the fact that separate processes were specified as sharing a single stack."
15:08:44 <esowiki> <oerjan> at least it's definitely esoteric :P
15:14:32 <esowiki> [[NDBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84084&oldid=84054 * Aspwil * (+99) /* 99 Bottles of beer on the wall */
15:18:31 <esowiki> [[NDBall/Program Archive]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84085 * Aspwil * (+77) Created page with "{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed nowrap" |+ | name |- |text |}"
15:21:19 <esowiki> [[NDBall/Program Archive]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84086&oldid=84085 * Aspwil * (-5)
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15:31:27 <esowiki> <fizzie> Let's see if I could convince fungot to run under OpenRC's experimental service-supervisor, because why stick with something that works when you can introduce a new piece of nonsense in?
15:31:27 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: and if a lot of things to start getting such an awareness?? oh, yeh!! first you need to have +x attributes for the query.
15:31:46 <esowiki> <fizzie> That sounds vaguely unsettling, but I'll still go ahead with it.
15:34:03 <esowiki> <Guest9> I WAS HERE YESTERDAY
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15:41:33 <esowiki> <fizzie> fungot: Did you gain some new kind of awareness from the new setup?
15:41:33 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: the .deb worked here. hope it didn't break my notify like it did?
15:41:52 <esowiki> <fungot> int-e: no. the scsh manual is??? what about cfunge???
15:42:10 <esowiki> <fizzie> fungot: ...you've installed a .deb package in your new Alpine-based container? What are you even doing?
15:42:10 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: it's hard in basic english....... huh.......interesting....... what kind of game, like e.g. procedure 6949 ( unnamed in fnord
15:42:20 <esowiki> <fungot> int-e: let tcl parse for me.
15:42:31 <esowiki> <fizzie> (Spoilers: it's cfunge.)
15:42:31 <esowiki> <fungot> int-e: unless it divides by 0 in which case, treating it as a multimedia message to myself with the task of adding 10 directories to a list which the last element
15:43:23 <esowiki> <fizzie> In retrospect, having a service manager that can restart it isn't *incredibly* useful for a bot that doesn't know how to auto-join any channels.
15:44:21 <esowiki> <fungot> int-e: must've been some tasteless slashem feature :) about 35 c today... it's warm
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15:44:42 <esowiki> <fizzie> In a sense it's a fail-safe feature, because it also doesn't know how to persist the ignore list, so this way I can pre-set it before telling it to join.
15:45:19 <esowiki> <fizzie> fungot: Are you measuring inside your chassis or something? I mean, it *is* warm, but it's not 35°C warm.
15:45:19 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: " today in practice, i don't remember having been surprised. we can thank anselm for this wonderfully cyclic " proof."
15:45:55 <esowiki> <fizzie> temp1: +37.0°C // well, pretty close
15:46:41 <esowiki> <fizzie> fungot: Actually, how did you get access to those sensors, you're supposed to be running in a KVM thing?
15:46:41 <esowiki> <fungot> fizzie: cookie monster used to scare me as a sort of regex, except limited, something that evaluate lambda calculus in haskell notation.
15:46:53 <esowiki> <fizzie> Fine, be that way. Uppity bot.
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15:56:04 <esowiki> <fizzie> I could write a script to my own irssi instance to periodically check if it's missing; if so, whois it to verify it's connected and authenticated; then set that ignore list and tell it to join. But maybe it's just easier to fix those things in the Befunge code.
16:04:17 <esowiki> <oerjan> `addquote <fizzie> I could write a script to my own irssi instance to periodically check if it's missing; if so, whois it to verify it's connected and authenticated; then set that ignore list and tell it to join. But maybe it's just easier to fix those things in the Befunge code.
16:04:20 <esowiki> <HackEso> 1333) <fizzie> I could write a script to my own irssi instance to periodically check if it's missing; if so, whois it to verify it's connected and authenticated; then set that ignore list and tell it to join. But maybe it's just easier to fix those things in the Befunge code.
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17:58:05 <esowiki> <river> https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/ntnsrs/the_logic_gate_adventure/
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18:22:20 <esowiki> [[FourQueue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84087 * Caenbe * (+3216) Created FourQueue
18:23:23 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84088&oldid=84012 * Caenbe * (+16) /* F */ Added FourQueue
18:24:37 <esowiki> [[User:Caenbe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84089&oldid=83989 * Caenbe * (+89) Added FourQueue
18:36:25 <esowiki> [[Purl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84090 * GotCubes * (+4) Created page with "Temp"
18:50:03 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84091&oldid=84090 * GotCubes * (+1495)
18:59:00 <esowiki> [[FourQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84092&oldid=84087 * Caenbe * (+11) Changed because having a 0 in front is a huge issue. This language may need work still.
18:59:22 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84093&oldid=84091 * GotCubes * (+1237) /* Instructions */
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19:01:34 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84094&oldid=84093 * GotCubes * (+9) /* Instructions */
19:02:05 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84095&oldid=84094 * GotCubes * (+28) /* Instructions */
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19:04:54 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84096&oldid=84095 * GotCubes * (+167) /* Instructions */
19:05:17 <esowiki> [[FourQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84097&oldid=84092 * Caenbe * (+127) /* Computational class */
19:06:47 <esowiki> [[FourQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84098&oldid=84097 * Caenbe * (+1) /* Computational class */
19:08:12 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84099&oldid=84096 * GotCubes * (+4)
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19:10:01 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84100&oldid=84099 * GotCubes * (+280)
19:10:16 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84101&oldid=84100 * GotCubes * (+15) /* Hello, world! in Purl */
19:10:18 <esowiki> [[FourQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84102&oldid=84098 * Caenbe * (-11) Undo revision 84092 by [[Special:Contributions/Caenbe|Caenbe]] ([[User talk:Caenbe|talk]]) Never mind, I'm an idiot. I will leave this as-is unless someone has a good objection.
19:11:53 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84103&oldid=84101 * GotCubes * (+803) /* Hello, world! in Purl */
19:12:17 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84104&oldid=84103 * GotCubes * (-443) /* Hello, world! in Purl */
19:12:32 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84105&oldid=84104 * GotCubes * (-362) /* Hello, world! in Purl */
19:17:27 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84106&oldid=84105 * GotCubes * (+10) /* Hello, world! in Purl */
19:20:41 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84107&oldid=84106 * GotCubes * (+568) /* Hello, world! in Purl */
19:23:30 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84108&oldid=84107 * GotCubes * (+192) /* Hello, world! */
19:27:52 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84109&oldid=84108 * GotCubes * (+498) /* Truth Machine */
19:31:43 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84110&oldid=84109 * GotCubes * (+318) /* 4-Function Calculator */
19:32:18 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84111&oldid=84110 * GotCubes * (+30) /* 4-Function Calculator */
19:37:38 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84112&oldid=84111 * GotCubes * (+800) /* 4-Function Calculator */
19:39:33 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84113&oldid=84112 * GotCubes * (+1)
19:40:04 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84114&oldid=84113 * GotCubes * (+72)
19:42:41 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * GotCubes * moved [[Purl]] to [[*Purl]]
19:43:04 <esowiki> [[*Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84117&oldid=84115 * GotCubes * (+4)
19:43:48 <esowiki> [[*Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84118&oldid=84117 * GotCubes * (+0) /* Example Programs */
19:44:38 <esowiki> [[*Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84119&oldid=84118 * GotCubes * (+50)
19:44:53 <esowiki> [[*Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84120&oldid=84119 * GotCubes * (+1)
19:54:48 <esowiki> [[User:Caenbe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84121&oldid=84089 * Caenbe * (+95) Organized my langs a bit
19:57:12 <esowiki> [[*Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84122&oldid=84120 * GotCubes * (+257)
19:58:54 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * GotCubes * moved [[*Purl]] to [[Purl]] over redirect
19:58:54 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * GotCubes * GotCubes deleted redirect [[Purl]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[*Purl]]"
19:59:27 <esowiki> [[Purl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84125&oldid=84123 * GotCubes * (-91)
20:00:53 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84126&oldid=84088 * GotCubes * (+11) /* P */
20:06:13 <esowiki> [[FourQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84127&oldid=84102 * Caenbe * (+47) /* Programs */ Extra detail
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20:23:01 <esowiki> <Corbin> "space" is often used for whitespace, so searching is difficult; are there documented languages whose objects are spaces?
20:24:15 <esowiki> <Corbin> Metric spaces, topological spaces, combinatoric spaces, I'm not choosy. (I'm not Chu-sey? Chu spaces would be okay too.)
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21:11:41 <esowiki> <Corbin> Oh, whose values are spaces. It's pretty common for a language to have types as spaces, like a space of numbers or a space of strings. But I want to manipulate spaces as values.
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21:34:32 <esowiki> [[FourQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84128&oldid=84127 * Caenbe * (+12) Formatting; switch to Unicode
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22:08:47 <esowiki> <salpynx> I've been looking into topology of esolangs recently. I was trying to make a funge on an n-torus playfield, but have realised befunge and Rasel with jumps (trampoline/bridge) are just as n-torusy as what I had in mind
22:12:03 <esowiki> <salpynx> I'm in the process of writing a tool to graph the control flow of various languages to get an idea of how they can be embedded, to discover what kind of graph can be embedded on an (n>1)-torus
22:13:32 <esowiki> <salpynx> It does BCT, brainfuck, and python (to some extend; it ignores function calls atm). Next step is Befunge / Rasel. I'm especially interested in how rotations differ from reflections in the graph, and how to represent that.
22:16:20 <esowiki> <salpynx> Relating to the space question, I had thought of making each program symbol a 2d region on a surface rather that a point, which is what they seem to be by default. Rotations in space would then be real rotations in space, not just choosing a labelled edge to move to
22:16:41 <esowiki> <salpynx> That's all program space topology though, not data space
22:25:34 <esowiki> <salpynx> Hm, I have a WIP 2D rewriting language that has stalled. That might benefit from being thought of as "space rewriting" rather than graph (or net) rewriting
22:46:29 <esowiki> [[BrainDots]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84129 * EnilKoder * (+595) init
23:05:48 <esowiki> [[Purl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84130&oldid=84125 * Caenbe * (+4) Grammar
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23:25:27 <esowiki> [[Minsky Swap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84131&oldid=84036 * Caenbe * (+2) /* Computational class */ Nice codeboxes
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