00:10:05 <esowiki> <zzo38> Have you played the "Gruniozerca" series of computer games? Do you know if they will make a fourth?
00:19:43 <esowiki> <nakilon> horraaaaaay https://i.imgur.com/wpdljVj.png
00:22:18 <esowiki> <nakilon> I was thinking about this for ~10 years and finally made it
00:24:18 <esowiki> <nakilon> corrected shape of captcha word https://i.imgur.com/MTplwa8.png
00:28:03 <esowiki> <nakilon> few minutes think up, ten years of hesitating and few hours to implement
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02:36:44 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: I'd still like to know if you have more example inputs of those captchas
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03:11:10 <esowiki> [[NScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84334&oldid=83857 * Goglesq * (+19) /* math(variable, equation) */
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03:12:21 <esowiki> [[NScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84335&oldid=84334 * Goglesq * (-5) /* getin(variable) */
03:17:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * HecknTarnation * New user account
03:24:18 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84336&oldid=84324 * HecknTarnation * (+214)
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06:12:52 <esowiki> <zzo38> Now I made in Free Hero Mesh that it remembers which levels you have solved and it is writing the level number green in that case, rather than red. However, it does not yet have a menu to display a list of all of the levels, nor the possibility to make a SQL query on the list of levels; hopefully these things can be added in future
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07:10:59 <esowiki> <nakilon> b_Jonas not yet, gotta collect them for ml anyway
07:12:46 <esowiki> <nakilon> Thelounge is weird on mobile. Keyboard takes one half of screen. Browser address bar, topic and input takes another half. Can't read while typing
07:16:34 <esowiki> <nakilon> Still have no idea why right 9 columns were not full
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07:27:32 <esowiki> <nakilon> Also imgur is awful on mobile (
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07:36:20 <esowiki> <nakilon> (better if you switch to desktop mode)
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08:18:41 <esowiki> <arseniiv> I think someone already joked about ACIDIC language but I came up with yet another deacronymization: “allegedly circuitous immaterial divine instruction code”
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12:21:36 <esowiki> [[NOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84337&oldid=84284 * ResU * (+329) Two cats, no dogs
12:30:11 <esowiki> [[NOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84338&oldid=84337 * ResU * (+97)
12:31:36 <esowiki> <nakilon> arseniiv wasn't here a hackeso command to generate abbreviations?
12:31:58 <esowiki> <nakilon> *deacronymizations
12:32:21 <esowiki> <arseniiv> nakilon: hmmm don’t think I’ve seen one!
12:32:31 <esowiki> [[NOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84339&oldid=84338 * ResU * (+1)
12:32:33 <esowiki> <nakilon> hackeso needs a regex search for commands by name and/or description
12:32:51 <esowiki> <arseniiv> playing FEZ right now, it’s a great fun
12:36:14 <esowiki> <nakilon> I feel handicated having no logs search in Thelounge
12:37:54 <esowiki> <nakilon> and there is no website with #esolangs log search, right?
12:40:51 <esowiki> <arseniiv> hm I thought there were pages with each full year of logs but there are only full-month pages
12:41:48 <esowiki> <arseniiv> fizzie: do you know where can the logs be searched?
12:46:49 <esowiki> <ais523> how unreasonable would a 20MB web page be in 2021?
12:47:04 <esowiki> <ais523> I know that ridiculous web pages sizes are common, but am not sure if they can reasonably be *that* large
12:51:04 <esowiki> [[Delta Salein Ao]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84340&oldid=84172 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
12:53:21 <esowiki> [[NOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84341&oldid=84339 * ResU * (+195)
12:54:39 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ais523: 20 MB is possible if it serves multiple high resolution images or a small video
12:55:52 <esowiki> <ais523> in this case, it would be 20MB of compressed text
12:56:09 <esowiki> <ais523> the context is, trying to host an esolang interpreter
12:56:18 <esowiki> <ais523> that uses a compression algorithm with a really big dictionary
12:56:19 <esowiki> <arseniiv> ais523: I’d add if the large part of its content is cacheable then maybe not that bad
12:56:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: "a regex search for commands by name" => grep -Eie "$1" /hackenv/share/whatis
12:56:40 <esowiki> <ais523> it should be cacheable, although actually getting it to be cached would be a little harder
12:57:11 <esowiki> <b_jonas> nakilon: we don't currently have a log search, you'd have to download the logs and search them locally. fizzie was vaguely planning to set up a log search.
12:57:13 <esowiki> <arseniiv> yeah, I meant cacheable by a poor browser :)
12:57:53 <esowiki> <ais523> I guess the part that's unlikely to change should be on a separate page and loaded by XHR or JSONP or whatever, so that we can change it without invalidating the cache
12:58:23 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ais523: I think that sounds reasonable then, just perhaps make a landing page with human-readable description of what you're doing that doesn't load that
12:58:39 <esowiki> <b_jonas> so it only loads the dictionary if the viewer actually wants to use it
12:58:52 <esowiki> <ais523> I could even load it lazily, I guess
12:59:01 <esowiki> <ais523> wait until there's an attempt to compress or decompress a string
12:59:01 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I mean at least if the user wants to evaluate something
12:59:08 <esowiki> <b_jonas> not necessarily that lazily
12:59:11 <esowiki> <b_jonas> though that's certainly possible
13:00:05 <esowiki> <ais523> I've been pondering finding some way to split the dictionary up into, say, 65536 separate files, so that we only load the parts of the dictionary that are actually needed
13:00:21 <esowiki> <ais523> but that means that each individual part would compress less well
13:00:38 <esowiki> <b_jonas> "loaded by XHR or JSONP" => that might be overcomplicating it, unless you really want to make it lazy. it could just be a javascript or web assembly or an uncompressed image file that the page loads normally, and then access the blob in it from the interpreter javascript
13:00:58 <esowiki> <b_jonas> through the canvas API if it's an image
13:01:24 <esowiki> <b_jonas> "65536 separate files" => um, is your compression algorithm such that that actually works?
13:01:31 <esowiki> <ais523> the canvas API doesn't exist nowadays, I thought? so that you couldn't fingerprint a browser by measuring how its rendering works
13:01:57 <esowiki> <b_jonas> also that sounds too many chunks for a 20 MB file that you're sending through network
13:02:30 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ais523: I don't know, I think the canvas API still exists, but if not, there's probably a modern replacement like webGL or whatever
13:03:07 <esowiki> <ais523> why does my IRC client keep segfaulting
13:03:17 <esowiki> <ais523> maybe 65536 is too many, and it should be 1024 or 2048 or so
13:03:46 <esowiki> <b_jonas> no, still too many, that would make the individual chunks only 10K
13:03:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> I'd make them at least 100K sized
13:03:56 <esowiki> <ais523> well, you'd need to access multiple chunks, most likely
13:04:10 <esowiki> <b_jonas> with 10K there'd be significant protocol overhead
13:04:14 <esowiki> <b_jonas> for retreiving the files
13:04:15 <esowiki> <ais523> I've been looking at various compression algorithms (including trying to invent my own)
13:04:35 <esowiki> <b_jonas> but if canvas doesn't work, then just a javascript or web assembly file containing a blob (or multiple smaller blobs)
13:04:45 <esowiki> <ais523> prezip followed by one of the usual general-purpose compressors (gzip, bzip2, xz, etc.) seems to be the best algorithm
13:04:51 <esowiki> <ais523> probably gzip because web browsers have that already
13:04:52 <esowiki> <b_jonas> or you can make it XHR and cache it to local storage
13:05:04 <esowiki> <ais523> and prezip's compression ratio is hardly hurt by cutting the file and compressing the two bits separately
13:05:16 <esowiki> <b_jonas> ais523: can you decompress xz client-side in the browser?
13:05:36 <esowiki> <ais523> well there are couple of megabytes of webassembly in here too, so probably
13:05:50 <esowiki> <ais523> but relying on browers' built in gunzips would be easier
13:05:55 <esowiki> <b_jonas> well yes, it's Turing-complete, but like efficiently
13:06:20 <esowiki> <ais523> this is an esolang, efficiency is just a bonus :-D
13:06:34 <esowiki> <ais523> I've mostly been aiming for good asymptotic complexity but ignoring the constant factors
13:06:49 <esowiki> <ais523> and decompressing a specific, fixed dictionary is O(1) so it doesn't matter
13:07:04 <esowiki> <b_jonas> if it's for good asymptotic complexity then your 20 MB dictionary is too small :-)
13:07:20 <esowiki> <ais523> this is the largest dictionary I could find :-)
13:07:34 <esowiki> <ais523> it is 9.4 MB uncompressed
13:07:51 <esowiki> <b_jonas> and you want to compress it to 20 MB? brilliant
13:08:09 <esowiki> <ais523> sorry, 94 MB uncompressed
13:08:27 <esowiki> <ais523> these numbers get so big that it's hard to count the digits in them
13:09:27 <esowiki> <ais523> thanks for the advice, I'll think about this some more
13:40:03 <esowiki> [[Primes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84342 * Meloons * (+15387) Added Page
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14:24:26 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84343&oldid=84298 * Toxinite * (+12) Added Qoibl
14:48:12 <esowiki> [[Qoibl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84344&oldid=84333 * Toxinite * (+184)
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15:04:59 <esowiki> [[Qoibl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84345&oldid=84344 * Toxinite * (+66)
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15:43:53 <esowiki> [[Qoibl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84346&oldid=84345 * Toxinite * (+347)
15:50:47 <esowiki> [[User:Toxinite]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84347 * Toxinite * (+56) Created page with "I am a person who likes esolangs ==Esolangs== *[[Qoibl]]"
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15:53:15 <esowiki> [[Piet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84348&oldid=76238 * Gilbert189 * (+64) /* Direction pointer */ (Lists exists)
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16:03:20 <esowiki> <Corbin> I think I've snapped. I propose an abomination: https://bpa.st/WVZQ Can any category theorists confirm that I'm on a decent track?
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17:23:48 <esowiki> <river> UTF-8 in brainfuck?
17:25:12 <esowiki> <myname> make . print out bytes instead if chars, done
17:25:44 <esowiki> [[Among Us]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84349&oldid=84293 * Zero player rodent * (-733)
17:26:41 <esowiki> <keegan> isn't that how most BF impls work anyway?
17:26:43 <esowiki> [[Among Us]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84350&oldid=84349 * Zero player rodent * (+7)
17:27:24 <esowiki> <myname> it's harder to make bf not support utf8
17:27:30 <esowiki> <keegan> brainfuck isn't limited to text data
17:27:53 <esowiki> <keegan> the only issue i'm aware of with processing arbitrary binary data is that you can't distinguish a null byte from EOF
17:28:18 <esowiki> <keegan> but that presents no additional issues for UTF-8 compared to ASCII
17:28:40 <esowiki> <keegan> because in both codes the null byte is only used to represent the null character and never for anything else
17:29:07 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Zero player rodent * uploaded "[[File:Among us.png]]": Logo for the Among Us programming language
17:31:59 <esowiki> [[Among Us]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84352&oldid=84350 * Zero player rodent * (+77)
17:32:07 <esowiki> <keegan> you still might want to implement some UTF-8-related algorithms in brainfuck like finding codepoint boundaries or whatever
17:32:13 <esowiki> <keegan> but that shouldn't be particularly challenging
17:35:31 <esowiki> <zzo38> UTF-8 is a superset of ASCII, so if your program is using only ASCII then it will work on a terminal emulator with any ASCII superset, including UTF-8. The brainfuck program can easily output any data, whether ASCII, UTF-8, binary, or ANSI escapes. I think there are some extensions for doing other functions than only standard I/O if wanted too (which is not specific to brainfuck but to anything that is only standard I/O)
17:35:59 <esowiki> <zzo38> Also the representation of EOF in brainfuck depends on the implementation I think; some use 0, some use 255, some leave it unchanged, I don't know if some terminate on EOF
17:36:35 <esowiki> <zzo38> Although, if you need to input UTF-8 with nulls you can use the overlong null character encoding, I suppose
17:37:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Zero player rodent * uploaded "[[File:Amongus.png]]": Among Us programming language logo
17:37:45 <esowiki> [[Among Us]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84354&oldid=84352 * Zero player rodent * (-1)
17:38:53 <esowiki> <river> im curious about the following concept?
17:39:04 <esowiki> <river> consider some kind of programming language that runs in one node
17:39:08 <esowiki> <river> and has the ability to talk to other nodes
17:39:11 <esowiki> <river> but is not turing complete
17:39:15 <esowiki> <keegan> what would be a good unambiguous way to handle EOF in brainfuck? add another command to ask if EOF has been reached?
17:39:20 <esowiki> <river> it is not turing complete with 2 or 3 or 4 nodes
17:39:23 <esowiki> <river> but it is turing complete with 5 nodes
17:39:33 <esowiki> <river> (5 chosen arbitarily for this example)
17:39:37 <esowiki> <keegan> "leave unchanged" works too but only if the cells are allowed to contain values outside [0..255]
17:40:05 <esowiki> <keegan> or -1 on EOF would work if your cells can go negative
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17:57:18 <esowiki> <myname> river: well, you can easily do something like splitting bf programs so that each cell runs its own program, i guess
17:57:45 <esowiki> <myname> and iirc bf with 3 (or 2?) unlimited cells is TC, but it is not with one
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18:18:05 <esowiki> <river> I hould really play TIS-100
18:19:22 <esowiki> <b_jonas> 5 might also happen to be the magic numbers where The Waterfall Model becomes TC, though it's quite likely that we'll never know the exact number
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18:29:41 <esowiki> <lambdabot> ENVA 111820Z 12003KT 090V180 9999 SCT014 BKN024 OVC040 16/13 Q1001 TEMPO SHRA SCT008 BKN014 RMK WIND 670FT 08005KT
18:30:27 <esowiki> <oerjan> hm i don't know if any of that means rain.
18:31:08 <esowiki> <lambdabot> KOAK 111753Z 22005KT 10SM FEW010 SCT200 16/09 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP197 T01610089 10161 20100 58003
18:39:51 <esowiki> <myname> river: everybody should play every zach-like!
18:45:00 <esowiki> <river> i played lots of magnum opus, that was great
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19:18:17 <esowiki> <fizzie> oerjan: TEMPO SHRA means a little bit of showers, I think.
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20:01:58 <esowiki> <keegan> what is The Waterfall Model?
20:31:34 <spruit11> some clever device for software salesmen to make lots of green paper
20:42:40 <esowiki> <fizzie> It's that, too, but I rather think here it was a reference to https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Waterfall_Model
20:47:37 <esowiki> <b_jonas> keegan: https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Waterfall_Model
20:50:00 <esowiki> <keegan> oh, that's pretty neat
21:09:25 <esowiki> [[Primes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84355&oldid=84342 * Meloons * (+107) Added GitHub Reference
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22:10:01 <esowiki> [[Among Us]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84356&oldid=84354 * Zero player rodent * (+711)
22:17:46 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84357&oldid=84325 * Zero player rodent * (+538)
22:19:27 <esowiki> <arseniiv> accidentally won FEZ with 32 cubes or something. They say it has a better ending when you come with all 64 cubes
22:21:38 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84358&oldid=82876 * Zzo38 * (+410)
22:22:32 <esowiki> <arseniiv> I was a bit confused when doors expecting 32 cubes opened for me when I had less. But in reality anti-cubes count to the overall number of cubes and that’s even displayed when the gate opens, flashing briefly squares of two different colors, each square for each cube you have. I didn’t notice that at first
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23:15:58 <esowiki> <b_jonas> fungot, was the safety pin of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch one of the True Nails with which Our Lord and Savior was crucified, and if so, through which of his body parts was it hammered?
23:15:59 <esowiki> <fungot> b_jonas: it's not functional and it's barely turing complete with an ugly memory model for a multiplexer and an encoder/ decoder to/ from
23:51:51 <esowiki> [[NOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84359&oldid=84341 * ResU * (+38)