00:02:20 [[Num]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83099&oldid=83049 * AndrewBayly * (-3751) /* Main */ 00:02:46 [[Num]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83100&oldid=83099 * AndrewBayly * (+1) /* Main */ 00:03:45 Oh, right, actually the UTC midnight was just now. Forgot about BST. 00:04:13 oh... I didn't pay attention to that, yes 00:04:41 ozone is fighting it out with chanserv, now there's a sight 00:07:47 Weird. The version of the bot I built on buster segfaults, but the one built on my daily-driver desktop (sid) doesn't. 00:07:55 I built it with Bazel, that's not supposed to happen. ;) 00:08:15 At least it's reproducible, so hopefully I can figure it out. 00:08:26 "that was not supposed to happen" is a great candidate for famous last words 00:10:11 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:11:47 It dies in std::thread::detach(). The system's almost entirely a single-threaded event loop, but there's one thread spawned to handle making blocking getaddrinfo calls, because I thought bundling an external DNS resolver like c-ares would be overkill. 00:14:04 -!- moony has changed nick to example. 00:15:13 https://0x0.st/-eHB.txt looks p. mysterious. What's that `call 0x0` doing there? 00:16:30 [[User:Icecream17/Arbitrary]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83101 * Icecream17 * (+512) Created page with "'''Icecream17/Arbitrary''' is ridiculous The following is subject to change {| class="wikitable" |+ Static programs |- ! Bits !! Hexadecimal source code !! What the source c..." 00:16:50 -!- example has changed nick to nickname. 00:17:06 -!- nickname has changed nick to example. 00:20:11 The context for the call is `std::thread(, ).detach();`, which I at least naively thought would just mean "start an independent thread running that function". 00:20:23 -!- chibi has joined. 00:20:26 ohayo. 00:22:26 Oh, Libera does ## instead of #? 00:22:45 By my interpretation, we *should* have been ##esoteric on freenode as well. 00:23:09 yeah, Freenode had a bunch of channels grandfathered into single-# names 00:23:22 although you could argue that #esoteric was the official channel of the open source esolang wiki 00:23:33 just like how #trains is the official channel of trainbot 00:24:04 keegan: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal#Freenode_and_the_future has some thoughts in that direction 00:24:10 I seem to recall someone kind of hinted we should think about migrating to ##esoteric on freenode, but we never bothered. 00:24:35 On the Libera policies page, I saw there's this new category of "community channels", between project channels and informal channels. 00:24:48 fizzie: no, that's what we say the official policy is because there's a rare case when people when squat a #-channel and staff takes it over for the project with the relevant name for searchability, and we want to have something to back it up. they don't actually mind #-channels when they don't cause trouble like that, but they can't say that officially. 00:25:17 any long-established #-channel that doesn't steal namespace is fine 00:25:37 As far as Libera goes, I think a "community channel" would be the reasonable designation for this one as the official community channel of esolangs.org, but `#esolangs` would IMO be a more reasonable name than `#esoteric`. 00:25:40 b_jonas: I think they care when they have visibility, like #math which was basically forced to become ##math 00:25:41 (Despite the history.) 00:25:57 yea, #esolangs would make more sense at this point 00:26:06 int-e: yes, #math is stealing prime namespace, it's a channel name that people will type in even without outside references 00:26:15 #esoteric, yeah, is probably small enough nobody cares. Also the attitude has probably shifted quite a bit over the years. 00:26:32 and it's a big channel with occasional drama 00:26:56 ISRT that also happened to ##java, which makes sense, because it's both obvious and having it as #java implies it's associated with whoever owns Java at the moment (Oracle?). 00:27:10 #esoteric isn't. a few people from the other type of esoterica did find their way in, and some of them were probably genuine rather than sockpuppets trying to make fun of the welcome message 00:27:25 b_jonas: I really think #math became ##math mainly to set an example. Any project claiming that name would have to deal with people who wanted to just discuss (talk *about*) math. 00:27:48 pls don't set me. (lemme change my nick back) 00:27:54 -!- example has changed nick to moony. 00:28:57 is there any kind of namespace continuity implied? 00:29:04 I mean from freenode to libera 00:29:10 or is it considered new domain? 00:29:16 uh, new domain afaik 00:31:37 In other news, IDGI. When I build it on that other system, the binary contains https://0x0.st/-eHS.txt as the implementation of std::thread::detach -- when I build it on this one, it just gets a PLT entry referring to . 00:33:35 so the dynamic linker messes up? 00:34:00 ..wtf is that google thing doing in there 00:34:22 I think that's just a random symbol that happened to end up associated with address 0 for whatever reason. 00:35:28 right, makes sense, sort of 00:35:49 But I don't know how it manages to get a "call 0" in there. Maybe I'll need to look at some intermediate files. 00:37:40 Oh, there *is* a difference in the BUILD files: the working one has commented out features = ["fully_static_link"]. 00:37:54 That sounds odd enough that it's probably what's screwing it up. 00:38:27 Though I've no recollection of why that's there in the first place. 00:41:36 Let's give it a whirl. 00:41:48 -!- esolangs has joined. 00:42:05 fizzie: Is #java a place for coffee discussions? 00:42:37 After two years or so of punting it until later, I can finally produce a new binary that works. (Well, assuming it does.) 00:44:30 chibi: is Java coffee actually such a thing? because I'm quite sure I hadn't heard about that until the Java language people started to spread that origin story. I think they invented that to have a cool explanation for their name like Python. 00:45:25 Java the Indonesian island definitely predates Java the programming language, and is associated with coffee. 00:45:52 Wouldn't know any of the details, though, not being a coffee-ist. 00:46:27 Have I mentioned our team's hybrid coffee/tea break is called a "toffee break", but never has any toffee involved? 00:46:37 the indonesian island does, yes 00:46:55 fizzie: that's sad 00:46:59 Apparently so, though my knowledge of coffee extends to how to brew good coffee in a pot and that's about it 00:47:07 even its name 00:48:12 I've never really had toffee, what's it taste like? 00:49:13 fizzie: that 0x0 may be __gthrw_pthread_create, which is a /weak/ reference to pthread_create... which might stay 0 if you "forget" to link in pthreads? 00:49:33 s/create/detach/g 00:49:38 It's a bit like fudge and caramel. 00:50:23 (I'm looking at /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/10/bits/gthr-default.h) 00:50:59 int-e: Yeah, I think it must've been something about that fully_static_link thing, which I've reconstructed to having been an attempt to produce a binary that I could runs while I didn't have a system with exactly-matching library versions as the target machine big enough to run the build. 00:51:05 Guessing it just wasn't pthreads-compatible. 00:52:04 Ooh, maybe that'd be nice to pair with some black coffee 00:52:37 https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/42057 sounds potentially related. 00:55:07 -!- Wezl has joined. 01:13:01 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CiaaiK * New user account 01:45:36 -!- reader445 has joined. 01:55:15 -!- Wezl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:00:00 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:12:44 [[Finites at Fredy's]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83102 * Salpynx * (+4732) This was _supposed_ to be a parody, but has become more of an uninspiring, but accurate, review. "Fair use" either way. 02:28:35 -!- chibi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:32:14 -!- chibi has joined. 03:52:23 [[Esolang:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83103&oldid=82807 * New Army * (-63) The link doesn't seem to be dead. 03:54:24 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83104&oldid=83098 * New Army * (+187) /* LifeWiki links */ 04:20:31 -!- arseniiv has joined. 04:42:32 -!- reader445 has quit (Quit: Connection closed). 04:45:51 -!- ski_ has joined. 05:15:52 hi let this day be nice to everyone! 05:19:40 I've made toffee before. 05:19:51 Confectionery is neatomatic 4,000. 05:33:12 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 06:09:45 -!- jinn has joined. 06:09:57 hello is this the compilier design channel from freenode? 06:10:18 -!- jinn has left. 06:10:41 -!- chibi has quit (*.net *.split). 06:10:42 -!- HackEso has quit (*.net *.split). 06:10:42 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 06:13:08 -!- lambdabot has joined. 06:15:49 -!- chibi has joined. 06:19:17 -!- esolangs has joined. 06:19:17 -!- Melvar has joined. 06:20:49 -!- chibi has joined. 06:26:31 -!- jinn has joined. 06:26:37 8-) oh 07:12:28 -!- dbohdan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:38 -!- iovoid has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:44 -!- dbohdan has joined. 07:13:25 -!- dbohdan has quit (Changing host). 07:13:25 -!- dbohdan has joined. 07:14:35 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:15:06 -!- lambdabot has joined. 07:16:32 -!- iovoid has joined. 08:29:16 [[Spider solitaire]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83105&oldid=83032 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+31) 08:45:49 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83106&oldid=83104 * Int-e * (+189) /* LifeWiki links */ 09:22:26 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83107&oldid=83106 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+237) /* LifeWiki links */ 11:26:04 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:36:09 Actually, we've never had +t (or problem with "unauthorized" topic changes either), that was just a default setting. Let's get rid of that. 11:36:14 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie. 11:36:16 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -t. 11:36:20 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o FireFly. 11:36:24 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie. 11:36:29 (Tab completion strikes again.) 11:45:17 haha 11:45:31 Now I'm extra deopped 11:46:58 > "euZWcKvS2ejX" 11:46:59 "euZWcKvS2ejX" 11:54:18 Oh, -t is allowed? It failed in #esoteric yesterday, somehow... 11:59:05 You need to "chanserv set #chan mlock" from the default (+nt-lk) to something that either doesn't mention t, or has -t. I just set it to +n-lk. 12:06:09 Trying to manage all these channels in one client is a bit of a headache. Only one of my lurking set (#perl) has entirely moved. A couple others just set up forks. 12:13:49 [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83108&oldid=83067 * Batata * (-9) 12:14:51 [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83109&oldid=83108 * Batata * (+12) 12:15:19 [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83110&oldid=83109 * Batata * (-3) 12:16:51 fizzie: did I mention that I set up a separate shell account for tracking Libera channels :P 12:24:31 [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83111&oldid=83110 * Batata * (+43) 12:25:55 [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83112&oldid=83111 * Batata * (+14) 12:26:03 [[User:Batata]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83113&oldid=83112 * Batata * (-2) 12:41:09 elliot and ion are u here in the new channel? 12:42:21 jinn: try /who ##esoteric 12:44:03 or names 13:08:46 -!- Wezl has joined. 13:19:53 -!- Trieste has joined. 13:20:18 -!- moony has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)). 13:21:15 -!- Wezl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:21:18 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 13:23:00 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:00 -!- Wezl has joined. 13:33:53 -!- moony5 has joined. 13:34:13 -!- moony5 has changed nick to moony. 13:34:50 -!- iovoid has joined. 13:40:31 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 13:56:36 -!- moony has changed nick to cd. 14:14:37 -!- u0_a61 has joined. 14:14:37 -!- Wezl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:19:53 -!- u0_a61 has changed nick to Wezl. 14:41:04 -!- cd has changed nick to moony. 14:50:33 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: Blame iczero something happened). 14:50:42 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 14:53:16 -!- moony has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)). 15:04:43 -!- moony has joined. 15:05:09 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 15:05:25 -!- iovoid has joined. 15:30:52 -!- imode has joined. 15:39:04 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83114&oldid=83107 * Taneb * (+360) 15:41:15 -!- moony has changed nick to moon. 15:47:02 -!- imode has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.1). 15:47:17 -!- imode has joined. 15:48:07 -!- river has joined. 15:48:10 ok 15:48:20 -!- moon has changed nick to Guest17817. 15:48:30 can we get an esoteric cloak? 15:48:35 goodbye, freenode, hello libera. 15:49:43 -!- Guest17817 has changed nick to moony. 15:55:42 river: You'd need to find a Libera staffer who appreciates the joke. 15:56:08 Sad as it is, fizzies boring esolang community idea is more likely to fly. 15:56:38 (or esolangs, whatever) 15:57:28 noooooo 15:57:50 otoh who needs cloaks :P 15:58:14 people without cool domain names 16:06:46 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:08:40 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 16:14:48 Better solution 16:14:53 get a cool domain name 16:18:01 -!- imode has changed nick to FuckAndrewLee. 16:18:48 -!- FuckAndrewLee has changed nick to AndrewLee. 16:18:52 -!- AndrewLee has changed nick to imode. 16:19:14 -!- moony has changed nick to cd. 16:33:25 int-e: As a compromise solution, let's register a community with the boring name ("esolangs"), but include `#esoteric` in the list of claimed channel names, on the basis of historical precedent and discoverability. 16:33:46 In either case, I'd kind of give it a bit of time first to see how this Libera thing evolves, before starting a discussion with staffers. I feel like they might have better things to do at the moment, anyway. 16:35:23 fizzie: I would mention that it's easier to register a channel and community on OFTC 16:36:40 or more like, you don't have to register communities 16:36:43 you can just register a channel 16:36:47 mind you, that works on freenode too 16:37:06 the whole group thing is just an official path to resolve namespace conflicts in single-flat-land 16:37:37 OFTC doesn't bother with that 16:39:48 Yeah, I know; I don't think the difficulty is an issue, though. And I think there's something nice about having a claim that's not just "we were here first", though I don't have a rational reason for that feeling. 16:49:43 -!- jix has joined. 17:13:14 ok 17:13:15 -!- cd has changed nick to moony. 17:14:14 fizzie: does fungot have an command that a bot can use to request that fungot ignore it? 17:15:05 or maybe a channel that the bot can join to request this? 17:16:54 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 17:16:54 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 17:17:16 Unfortunately not. There's a single regular expression (matched against the message prefix) that defines the ignore list. 17:17:37 Not even persisted, I just re-apply it every time I restart it. 17:17:46 By grepping in my logs if it's fallen off the backscroll. 17:17:52 IOW, a highly productionized setup. 17:34:42 -!- kspalaiologos has joined. 17:48:57 -!- nakilon has joined. 17:51:05 * nakilon šŸ‘€ 18:30:36 -!- imode has changed nick to FuckAndrewLee. 18:33:16 -!- FuckAndrewLee has changed nick to imode. 18:45:44 fizzie: hmm... I might have to replace his invocation keyword then 18:46:45 or just convince you to change that regex 18:46:53 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:47:59 -!- arseniiv has joined. 18:49:04 finally fixing lambdabot? 18:50:50 -!- velik has joined. 19:19:31 I'm happy to change that regex whenever. If it was written in a more reasonable language, I could also consider adding a feature to request being ignored, but as it stands it might be quite long before I'd get to that. 19:19:47 I should probably clean up that list anyway, it's got a lot of legacy cruft. It's currently: 19:19:50 ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|HackEso|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot|termbot|otherbot|j-bot|esowiki|bfbot|egelbot)! 19:40:52 -!- imode has changed nick to kronk. 19:54:53 hah otherbot 20:06:11 -!- kronk has changed nick to imode. 20:48:09 the table on https://libera.chat/guides/extbans makes my eyes hurt a bit 20:48:35 (alternating between grey on white and white on grey for code spans) 20:52:11 Hmm, it's all light-on-dark for me, just slightly different shades. But I've got a prefer-dark thing going on, maybe it styles for that. 21:02:50 -!- eight has joined. 21:05:58 https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/alternate.png 21:06:10 oh, dark theme, hmm 21:13:15 Well, it's not *that* dissimilar in the dark theme either. https://zem.fi/tmp/extbans.png 21:13:45 Got the same thing going where the code span color is the same as the background of the *other* row. 21:16:50 I get the idea and the logic but my brain hurts ;) 21:17:46 I've just dropped my account with freenode nickserv and removed the config from my bouncer. Feels like an end of an era 21:19:52 -!- eight has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:23:51 -!- mrkajetanp has joined. 21:37:15 shachaf: all of a sudden found your answer on SO about Fix, Mu and Nu in recursion-schemes. Thanks for writing it, clarified a great deal 21:37:29 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:40:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:41:34 hm is it obvious at first sight if Ī¼x. x + x and Ī¼x. Ī¼y. x + y are (naturally) isomorphic? Oh, nvm they are both empty 21:41:58 (in the strict sense of course) 21:44:48 arseniiv: you could use ux. 1+x+x and uxy. 1+x+y instead 21:44:59 as for the general situationā€¦ The allows āŠ„ and x1 + x2 inductively, but as Ī¼y. x + y allows only 21:45:02 oops 21:45:07 early posted 21:47:18 as for the general situationā€¦ The type A ā‰” Ī¼x. x + x allows āŠ„ and x1 + x2 for x1, x2 :: A inductively, but B ā‰” Ī¼y. x + y allows only āŠ„ and c + y for y :: B so for example (āŠ„ + āŠ„) + āŠ„ :: A and not :: B. Hehehe 21:49:41 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83115&oldid=83114 * Fizzie * (+1128) /* Freenode and the future */ Thoughts about networks. 21:50:21 int-e: yep thatā€™s an interesting elaboration on 1 + x which is precisely the direction I looked in. Now we have naturals with two successor kinds in the first case (and in case of conaturals, 2^N infinities) and in the second caseā€¦ 21:51:22 arseniiv: x is free in B, I'm confused 21:51:40 ow I mis-edited it 21:52:32 I planned to write first about Ī¼y. x + y which I did but then I forgot I hadnā€™t written about the full thing 21:53:40 (but still (āŠ„ + āŠ„) + āŠ„ shouldnā€™t inhabit Ī¼xy. x + y, if Iā€™m correct) 21:55:48 okay, Ī¼xy. 1 + x + y is of course just Ī¼x. N + x and that should give usā€¦ yep, again less possibilities: first we use just successors of the first kind and then just those other ones, no intermixing, so not naturally isomorphic with Ī¼x. 1 + x + x 21:56:08 I wonder if these two types occur somewhere in practice 21:58:27 for example conaturals are great for timeout values (like how many small-step evaluations we are allowed to take), even if encoded in a naĆÆve way. That has some charm IMO 22:00:22 also one could try something with 1 + (x, y) or (1 + x, 1 + y) 22:00:39 arseniiv: let X = Ī¼x y. x + y, Y = Ī¼y. X + y; āŠ„ inhabits X and Y, so āŠ„ + āŠ„ inhabits X, so (āŠ„ + āŠ„) + āŠ„ inhabits X. 22:03:51 int-e: oh 22:04:52 wait, that Y is something completely different 22:05:15 Basically thinking of it as data A = A A B; data B = B A B vs. data C = C C C 22:05:50 though would we even get to Ī¼x. x + x by applying this Ī›X.Y repeatedly to X? 22:06:41 int-e: but those datas are mutually recursive whereas X, Y arenā€™t 22:07:24 arseniiv: X already does the full mutual recursion. Y just occurs in unfolding the outer fixed point. 22:09:34 ah yes, yes 22:09:53 Ī¼x y. x + y = āŠ„ | Y, Y = āŠ„ | X + Y 22:10:05 so I guess my datatypes aren't reflecting this accurately 22:11:04 And there are two ways to get a bottom from Ī¼x y. ..., but we have no way of distinguishing them? Bottoms suck. 22:11:23 Ī¼x y. 1 + x + y doesn't have that issue 22:12:36 And there are two ways to get a bottom from Ī¼x y. ..., but we have no way of distinguishing them? Bottoms suck. => though in the haskellization we should get different bottoms due to explicit wraps and unwraps, wouldnā€™t we? 22:12:55 I hadnā€™t thought too much 22:13:05 arseniiv: which is how I realized that my representation is wrong 22:14:03 ah, that post was about this 22:14:05 data A = A B; data B = B A B <-- it's more like this, and then you do get distinct _|_ and A _|_ before branching. Also, evidently, I'm doing a product instead of a sum. 22:14:34 -!- Wezl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:14:34 data B = B1 A | B2 B 22:15:07 I agree 1 + x + y and not concerning ourselves with āŠ„-containing terms is clearer 22:15:21 yep I hadnā€™t even see you did a product at the first time 22:15:28 :D 22:16:18 -!- river has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:17:20 There must be a bunch of papers about how this invalidates generic programming in Haskell ;) 22:17:40 lol 22:19:37 . o O ( The Haskell programmer's heaven is a bottom-less pit. ) 22:19:43 and it shows I wrote something incomprehensible about Ī¼xy. 1 + x + y being the same as Ī¼x. x + N :\ 22:20:31 int-e: I bet what many haskellersā€™ jokes are about is Just Nothing 22:20:45 at least I can definitely say fix Just Nothing does what it says 22:20:52 > fix error -- practical joke 22:20:54 "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Ex... 22:21:36 (itā€™s a bit unfair I came up with those two some half an hour earlier and just copied them here) 22:22:01 yeah I remember fix error, I adviced it to several people 22:22:18 I have it adviced to this time* 22:22:38 > fix show 22:22:39 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\... 22:22:54 Huh, what's fix? 22:22:58 > t:fix 22:22:58 > iterate error "" -- kind of disappointing 22:22:59 error: 22:22:59 ā€¢ Couldn't match expected type ā€˜[Expr]ā€™ 22:22:59 with actual type ā€˜(a0 -> a0) -> a0ā€™ 22:22:59 ["","*Exception: 22:23:06 fix f = x 22:23:08 where 22:23:13 x = f x 22:23:30 ski: oh, 2^n āˆ’ 1, nice 22:23:46 ahah. 22:23:54 fix f = last $ iterate f undefined -- find the error 22:23:59 imho, escape characters ought not to be escaped, using themselves as indicator character 22:24:06 I remember b_jonas saying something about rational escape syntax 22:24:44 @src undefined 22:24:45 undefined = error "Prelude.undefined" 22:24:52 (there's one error!) 22:25:05 GNU Screen gets this right. `^A' is the (default) escape character. to send a literal `^A' (e.g. to a nested session), you do `^Aa'. for two nested, you get `^Aaa'. linear instead of exponential 22:25:17 (iirc TMux does the same) 22:26:06 . o O ( don't nest screens ) 22:26:58 -!- mrkajetanp has quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.1). 22:27:05 what escape syntax? 22:27:09 hmm 22:27:09 ^Aa is slightly less convenient at depth 1. 22:27:09 if `\' was escaped as `\/' (say), then `fix show' above would be `"\"\/"\//"\///"\////"..."' 22:27:24 Also taking ^A away from readline is wrong. 22:27:30 I might have said that I use \x5C all the time instead of \\ 22:27:51 and that I wish K&R set a simple letter escape to mean a backslash, like \s instead of \\ 22:27:57 so that we could have it standardized by now 22:28:05 (hard to avoid nesting Screens, when you have a mediate SSH (or `su', say)) 22:28:07 So... personally I'm going against the quoting efficiency with escape ^B^B 22:28:36 * ski normally uses `escape ^Zz' 22:28:44 (i don't suspend that often anyway) 22:29:10 I suspend things a lot more than is healthy. 22:29:11 b_jonas : yes 22:29:27 but as for screen, I use ^Qq , and in the rare case when I have two screens nested, one of them uses ^Qq and the other ^Aa 22:29:29 (using `escape ^Oo' as alternate) 22:29:40 ^Z, less a file, forget about the background job... later that day, kill half a dozen pending jobs 22:30:09 but there's also the banal ^Z; kill %1 trick that often works when ^C doesn't 22:31:10 fungot: where are you and what's an idiosyncracy? 22:31:25 `? freenode 22:31:37 oh 22:32:20 I do admit that I decided Consumer Society has a less than ideal escape syntax, one that can cause leaning toothpick syndrome 22:32:34 Hmm, why didn't that work. 22:32:35 what's that ? 22:32:56 fungot? 22:33:07 "Consumer Society" ? 22:33:11 fizzie: well, no hackeso? 22:33:14 No, the `? freenode -- and I guess it's because HackEso is gone, but I'm not sure why. 22:33:17 `echo z0eNGh9ji3Y 22:33:31 ski: it's an esolang I'm making, or one of a sibling pair of esolangs rather 22:33:36 08:10:45 --- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: lambdabot, HackEso, chibi 22:33:38 ah 22:33:46 so gone for ... 16 hours 22:33:58 how does its escaping work ? 22:34:18 cause a netsplit, don't come back --> successful escape 22:34:43 chibi is a Scheme bot ? 22:35:04 ski: won't tell yet, the details are not public, but it's one that expands exponentially if you try to nest it 22:35:05 int-e: Oh, it had a temporary network problem, but one that caused it to be immediately "connection refused"ing, and systemd went all "Start request repeated too quickly" and gave up. 22:35:05 oh, apparently not 22:35:21 -!- HackEso has joined. 22:35:25 b_jonas : i'm sorry to hear :/ 22:35:27 `ping 22:35:28 pong 22:35:34 That was simple enough. 22:35:44 fizzie: ah. I think lambdabot just sleeps for 3 minutes and tries again 22:35:46 `echo XpKudeGz98Ar fungot 22:35:47 XpKudeGz98Ar fungot 22:35:50 (well the loop that controls it) 22:37:09 I don't have fungot over on this side, though I guess I could. It wouldn't have the same shared "repository" (in terms of ^def and such), but OTOH those commands aren't really used much. 22:37:15 lambdabot sleeps! I knew it! 22:37:31 fizzie: you don't have to, if you only have fungot on one side then you won't need to make it ignore the bridge 22:37:57 . z Z 22:39:13 fungot will work well that way because it's triggered by a keyword inside the line, pear tree style, unlike most bots that are triggered by a marking at the start of the message contents, so they should be present on all sides or have special code to accomodate the bridge 22:39:20 well... 22:39:32 yeah, there are caret commands where the trigger is at the start of a line 22:39:33 int-e: Stop impersonating me, it's annoying! 22:39:36 lambdabot: @goodnight 22:39:36 Unknown command, try @list 22:39:36 that complicates things 22:40:05 hm this gives me strange ideas 22:40:15 yes, #esoteric tends to do that 22:40:20 int-e: > 2 + 2 maybe maybe? 22:40:49 arseniiv: some sort of parse error 22:40:55 > 2 + 2 maybe maybe? 22:40:56 :1:19: error: 22:40:56 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 22:40:57 hm should have made ā€œmaybe maybeā€ a comment 22:41:18 Bridges are kind of awkward, but I guess there's the benefit that we might see a cross-network botloop. 22:41:43 fizzie: yes, that's why I asked about fungot's ignore facilities 22:41:51 so the bot can ask fungot to ignore it 22:42:00 s/bot/bridge/ 22:49:49 int-e: I'm sure that delay is something I could configure in the .service file. Probably by setting "RestartSec=...", because the log also says "Service RestartSec=100ms expired, scheduling restart" between the 6 attempts it made. 22:50:41 fizzie: ah I don't know about that, I have a python script 22:51:45 I've been trying to be all modern. 22:52:48 I have systemd units somewhere else, but nothing that actively connects over the network and has to try to be nice . 22:53:24 fungot I've got running in a screen that I just start completely manually. :) 22:59:10 fizzie: why do it manually when you can do https://paste.debian.net/1198292/ 23:00:08 (the best part is where it sleeps for 0.3 seconds because `top` is so slow to start up) 23:01:09 my lambdabot setup is *not* modern or nice 23:01:53 none of my setups are modern 23:01:58 I don't believe in modern stuff 23:02:34 or at least I believe in only some modern stuff and not others 23:02:36 I'm selective 23:02:40 fizzie: The thing is, I started out exactly as you described... set up screen, start the bot from inside screen 23:02:59 fizzie: and over time I added more default screens, and then I got tired of doing it manually every reboot :) 23:03:29 but the path of least resistance was to just keep the basic setup and automate it 23:03:55 and by now the result is not safe for audiences outside of this channel 23:06:10 and it's kind of useful for experimentation... if the socat needs tweaking I can ^C there and modify the command line 23:30:44 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:31:36 -!- mrkajetanp has joined.