00:00:26 <fizzie> And one more time, because the most recent multi-network refactoring broke the Prometheus metrics due to a lack of labels.
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00:16:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jdonszelmann * New user account
00:20:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83343&oldid=83330 * Jdonszelmann * (+246) /* Introductions */
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00:41:44 <esolangs> [[Whopper]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83344&oldid=83235 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* Commands */ Lt get
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04:53:13 <int-e> wow, freenode #esoteric is smaller than this channel right now
04:54:06 <HackEso> advertisement:Advertisement starts: have you heard about this hip and froopy 'net place called #esoteric? It is on freenode. Brought to you by The Board of Timeskewed Advertiesements. \ e:e is a freenode admin. e is not known to be an Agora player. \ freenode:The Realm of Freenode is our homeland. The Chännel dwells in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago?
05:08:40 <HackEso> Libera is the land of the future. Maybe.
05:09:33 <int-e> `slwd libnera//s/[^ ]*$/Probably./
05:09:39 <int-e> `slwd libera//s/[^ ]*$/Probably./
05:09:43 <HackEso> libera//Libera is the land of the future. Probably.
05:26:29 <esolangs> <zzo38> I don't (yet) know what should be the syntax for meta-CSS.
05:35:55 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83345&oldid=83327 * Aonodensetsu * (+0) /* MATH variable input order explanation */
05:36:10 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83346&oldid=83345 * Aonodensetsu * (-8) /* Commands */
05:52:23 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83347&oldid=83346 * Aonodensetsu * (-47) /* Quirks */
05:58:37 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83348&oldid=83347 * Aonodensetsu * (+26) /* Naming of functions */
05:59:00 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83349&oldid=83348 * Aonodensetsu * (+6) /* Naming of functions */
06:00:09 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83350&oldid=83349 * Aonodensetsu * (+2) /* Conditional jumps? */
06:02:34 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83351&oldid=83350 * Aonodensetsu * (+178) /* What can we do with this? */
06:04:40 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83352&oldid=83351 * Aonodensetsu * (+10) /* Conditional jumps? */
06:06:16 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83353&oldid=83352 * Aonodensetsu * (-22) /* MATH variable input order explanation */
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06:20:03 <salpynx> `` for k in Church Turing turning pi circle esoteric monad group future logic ; do ? $k|cut -f1,2,$((${#k}*3/2)) -d' ' ;done
06:20:26 <HackEso> Church invented Turing \ Turing is Tur. \ Turning is because \ pi is a \ A circle \ This channel esoterica, \ Monads are category \ Groups are property \ We know \ Logic is true
06:44:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cythan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83354 * Ais523 * (+677) I don't think this is TC
06:46:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[DotSnap]]": Author request: blanked by author
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06:51:08 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83355&oldid=83353 * Aonodensetsu * (+93) /* Quirks */
06:51:19 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83356&oldid=83355 * Aonodensetsu * (+9) /* Quirks */
06:52:15 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83357&oldid=83356 * Aonodensetsu * (+21) /* Quirks */
06:53:13 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83358&oldid=83357 * Aonodensetsu * (+4) /* Quirks */
06:53:26 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83359&oldid=83358 * Aonodensetsu * (+9) /* Quirks */
06:55:53 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83360&oldid=83359 * Aonodensetsu * (+140) /* Quirks */
06:56:56 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83361&oldid=83360 * Aonodensetsu * (+55) /* What can we do with this? */
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07:12:03 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83362&oldid=83361 * Aonodensetsu * (+392) /* Commands */
07:12:36 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83363&oldid=83362 * Aonodensetsu * (-62) /* Commands extended */
07:12:52 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83364&oldid=83363 * Aonodensetsu * (+26) /* Commands extended */
07:13:03 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83365&oldid=83364 * Aonodensetsu * (-26) /* Commands extended */
07:19:33 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83366&oldid=83365 * Aonodensetsu * (+0) /* Commands extended */
07:19:45 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83367&oldid=83366 * Aonodensetsu * (-3) /* Extended commands */
07:20:05 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83368&oldid=83367 * Aonodensetsu * (+3) /* Extended commands */
07:24:07 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83369&oldid=83368 * Aonodensetsu * (+72) /* Manual */
07:24:21 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83370&oldid=83369 * Aonodensetsu * (+1) /* Extended manual */
07:24:48 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83371&oldid=83370 * Aonodensetsu * (-2) /* Extended commands */
07:26:05 <nakilon> 42 runs, 69 assertions, 0 failures, 0 errors, 0 skips
07:27:18 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83372&oldid=83371 * Aonodensetsu * (+432) /* Extended manual */
07:27:28 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83373&oldid=83372 * Aonodensetsu * (+0) /* GLOBALW [] */
07:28:50 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83374&oldid=83373 * Aonodensetsu * (-123) /* Extended manual */
07:29:08 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83375&oldid=83374 * Aonodensetsu * (+8) /* GLOBALW / GLOBALR */
07:29:18 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83376&oldid=83375 * Aonodensetsu * (-12) /* GLOBALW / GLOBALR */
07:30:24 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83377&oldid=83376 * Aonodensetsu * (+146) /* GLOBALW / GLOBALR */
07:30:44 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83378&oldid=83377 * Aonodensetsu * (+4) /* GLOBALW / GLOBALR */
07:31:00 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83379&oldid=83378 * Aonodensetsu * (-2) /* GLOBALW / GLOBALR */
07:32:28 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83380&oldid=83379 * Aonodensetsu * (+122) /* Extended manual */
07:41:15 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83381&oldid=83380 * Aonodensetsu * (+232) /* Extended commands */
07:43:59 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83382&oldid=83381 * Aonodensetsu * (-40) /* Extended commands */
07:53:16 <esolangs> [[4BOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83383&oldid=83335 * Oshaboy * (+201) /* Specifications */
07:53:31 <esolangs> [[4BOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83384&oldid=83383 * Oshaboy * (+21) /* Specifications */
07:54:09 <esolangs> [[4BOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83385&oldid=83384 * Oshaboy * (+66) /* Examples */
08:03:53 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83386&oldid=83382 * Aonodensetsu * (+43) /* Extended commands */
08:04:16 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83387&oldid=83386 * Aonodensetsu * (-43) /* Extended commands */
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08:14:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Clockwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83388&oldid=83004 * Bangyen * (+4) /* Cat Program */
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08:19:52 <nakilon> now \rasel is v1, `rasel will remain v0
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08:24:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:3x]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83389 * Bangyen * (+691) Created page with "== Multiplication == I'm pretty sure the multiplication program is incorrect. Below is the corrected version: <pre> ??#333x#v333x^#3#v3333x3x3333x3x3^x(3#v3333x3x3333x3x3^x#33..."
08:26:09 <nakilon> is there any recommended list of infobox proglang items?
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08:27:16 <nakilon> or how to see its internals, I see that it replaces "year" with "Appeared at", etc., so there is its code somewhere that I would like to look at
08:27:19 <esolangs> [[3x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83390&oldid=81228 * Bangyen * (+102)
08:27:39 <esolangs> [[3x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83391&oldid=83390 * Bangyen * (-2)
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08:28:28 <nakilon> ok found it https://esolangs.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_proglang
08:29:19 <esolangs> [[3x]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83392&oldid=83391 * Bangyen * (+46)
08:31:14 <nakilon> would be nice to also have a field "last version year"
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08:46:51 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83393&oldid=83387 * Aonodensetsu * (-10) /* Extended commands */
08:47:29 <nakilon> btw, the Libera channel can be announced in /r/esolangs
08:53:19 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83394&oldid=83247 * Nakilon * (+76) typesys, memsys; updated to RASEL v1.0.0
08:59:37 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83395&oldid=83393 * Aonodensetsu * (-40) /* Extended commands */
09:03:46 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83396&oldid=83394 * Nakilon * (+0) /* Instructions */ typo
09:05:15 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83397&oldid=83395 * Aonodensetsu * (+429) /* GLOBALW / GLOBALR */
09:08:30 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83398&oldid=83397 * Aonodensetsu * (+196) /* CALL */
09:09:51 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83399&oldid=83398 * Aonodensetsu * (+0) /* CALL */
09:10:10 <esolangs> [[While(true)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83400&oldid=83399 * Aonodensetsu * (+120) /* Quirks */
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09:18:55 <fizzie> Re "last version year", while it would be nice to *have* one, and I'm not arguing against one, it feels like one of those things that would get easily stale. Also a little ambiguous for something with multiple implementations.
09:19:15 <fizzie> Though it's probably true that most languages stop getting developed the same year the articles about them get written, and don't have more than one (or zero) implementations, so it'd still be mostly correct.
09:20:05 <nakilon> "ambiguous for something with multiple implementations" -- ttrue
09:20:50 <nakilon> but let it be a year of specification, not implementation
09:26:26 <nakilon> interesting stats https://projecteuler.net/languages
09:27:31 <nakilon> there are 4 guys who classified themselves as befungers https://projecteuler.net/language=Befunge though it's not necessary they mostly used it to solve
09:28:01 <fizzie> I get redirected to the /about page from those links. (Maybe it needs sign-in.)
09:29:34 <fizzie> (Looking at ~/src/attic/euler, looks like I never did any of them in Befunge, I just did the first 100 in Python and forgot about it.)
09:33:16 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/RoMACey.png
09:33:52 <Taneb> I should get back into solving them in Agda
09:34:09 <Taneb> Sadly that's not a listed language category... I wonder if there's a way to request it?
09:35:18 <nakilon> my projecteuler folder is empty _OO
09:43:17 <nakilon> oh I guess they had some database problem few years ago; and probably this is why they say on Problem 1: "Completed a long, long time ago." and the whole list looks like this: https://dpaste.org/ReMy/slim
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12:35:21 <nakilon> so since RASEL does not allow program space modification unlike Befunge it becomes possible to estimate all the program flows
12:36:15 <nakilon> only "j" with no leading static value means the unpredictable branching
12:37:34 <nakilon> still even with this branching it's possible to know all the possible paths through the program space and makes some things possible -- I imagine the automatic one-lining
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12:40:34 <nakilon> oh and "\" is unpredictable now too (
12:41:36 <esolangs> [[4BOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83401&oldid=83385 * Oshaboy * (-68) I forgot I did cls(0110)
12:51:57 <velik> available commands: rasel; usage help: \help <cmd>
12:57:31 <nakilon> there should be a term "language encoding" that would mean all those brainfucks that are just using another alphabet and sometimes a word instead of a char
12:58:08 <nakilon> the language encoding isn't much a language
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13:03:18 <b_jonas> \rasel "!dlroW ,olleH">:?@,Gj
13:03:22 <velik> output: "Hello, World!", exit code: 0
13:04:53 <b_jonas> nakilon: how is this supposed to work?
13:06:39 <b_jonas> does it only interpret hello world executables?
13:08:15 <nakilon> yeah you missed the @ most of the times
13:08:57 <b_jonas> ok, so why doesn't \rasel 5.0@ work?
13:09:07 <nakilon> since the timeout is 60s you basically just DDOSed it to the 16:06:34 <velik> thread error: #<Net::HTTPTooManyRequests 429 Too Many Requests readbody=true> )
13:09:32 <b_jonas> thet empty program is an infinite loop in rasel?
13:09:53 <nakilon> because I set the limit to 1 concurrent execution, the later are coming into several minutes long queue and I guess you've killed that queue length too lol
13:10:07 <fizzie> On the wiki, we do make the distinction between https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives and https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_equivalents where the latter is close to your "language encoding".
13:10:17 <nakilon> the empty program might not match the bot regex and so won't be executed
13:10:17 <fizzie> "This category is for languages which are straightforward alternate syntaxes/encodings for brainfuck, with or without its I/O facilites. Languages which have semantics that differ from brainfuck's, even in small ways, do not belong in this category."
13:10:36 <fizzie> (There's probably some gray area there, though.)
13:10:45 <velik> output: "5 ", exit code: 0
13:11:56 <nakilon> damn I guess the queue size in 1 actually
13:12:32 <b_jonas> but why doesn't the interpreter just terminate or error out when the program counter runs out the boundary?
13:14:10 <nakilon> https://i.imgur.com/N4BRfja.png I guess this should allow 4 infinite programs per 30 sec
13:14:33 <nakilon> takes up to 2 minutes to update
13:14:44 <b_jonas> nakilon: also how do you give a multiline program to this bot?
13:15:38 <b_jonas> "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
13:15:59 <b_jonas> four infinite loops per 30 seconds, that's so fast!
13:16:01 <nakilon> b_jonas it's currently PRIVMSGing these error to me before I'm sure nothing will expose if I set it to tell errors right to the channel
13:16:51 <velik> output: "F", exit code: 0
13:17:04 <nakilon> no multiline for now -- that's why I'm thinking about making the automatic one-lining translator
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13:18:33 <nakilon> theoretically I could make the multiline in the similar way I made the stind
13:19:42 <velik> \rasel <RASEL code>; \rasel -stdin <any char><stdin><same char><RASEL code>; timelimit=60s; https://esolangs.org/wiki/RASEL
13:20:06 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "libera", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-1.catv.broadband.hu", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esolangs",":
13:20:06 <lambdabot> lambdabot: @echo ho"]} target:#esolangs rest:"ho"
13:21:14 <velik> remote execution commands loaded: ["rasel"]
13:21:20 <velik> \rasel <RASEL code>; \rasel -stdin <any char><stdin><same char><RASEL code>; don't forget the '@' instruction or it will timeout; timelimit=30s; https://esolangs.org/wiki/RASEL
13:21:47 <velik> output: "E", exit code: 0
13:22:39 <b_jonas> yeah, this probably won't cause a botloop
13:23:56 <b_jonas> oh yeah, I know what I should test
13:24:44 <nakilon> I added 500 chars limit today but didn't test it though
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13:28:46 <nakilon> also the Ruby's String#inspect is sanitizing funny char values enough to be nicely printed in terminal so I assume it would be enough sanitizing for IRC too
13:29:01 <b_jonas> \rasel 0"~dlrow ,olleh" :,"~"-0D-1\?j 0@
13:29:48 <b_jonas> \rasel 0"~dlrow ,olleh" :,"}"-0D-1\?j 0@
13:29:52 <velik> output: "hello, world~", exit code: 0
13:30:47 <b_jonas> \rasel 0"~egassem motsuc" :,"}"-0D-1\?j 0@
13:30:51 <velik> output: "custom message~", exit code: 0
13:31:08 <HackEso> olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1235.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
13:31:44 <b_jonas> \rasel 0"~enil rehtona: sgnalose# GSMVIRP"A"enil eno" :,"}"-0D-1\?j 0@
13:31:45 <velik> output: "one line\nPRIVMSG #esolangs :another line~", exit code: 0
13:31:53 <b_jonas> \rasel 0"~enil rehtona: sgnalose# GSMVIRP"D"enil eno" :,"}"-0D-1\?j 0@
13:31:54 <velik> output: "one line\rPRIVMSG #esolangs :another line~", exit code: 0
13:32:01 <b_jonas> \rasel 0"~enil rehtona: sgnalose# GSMVIRP"0"enil eno" :,"}"-0D-1\?j 0@
13:32:03 <velik> output: "one line\x00PRIVMSG #esolangs :another line~", exit code: 0
13:33:18 <velik> output: "1024 :3 ", exit code: 0
13:33:26 <velik> output: "", exit code: 255
13:33:38 <velik> output: "", exit code: 255
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13:35:54 <b_jonas> \rasel G1A//01--, G1C//02--, "r", 0@
13:35:55 <velik> output: "\xA1\xC2r", exit code: 0
13:36:10 <nakilon> actually there is really no protection against \x00 in my IRC bot library
13:36:48 <b_jonas> that's harder to abuse on IRC than lf and cr
13:39:03 <nakilon> but oh, I see, the String#inspect made that "one line\x00PRIVMSG" escape
13:40:17 <nakilon> it's not in IRC bot but in the Function: https://github.com/Nakilon/rasel/blob/5125650327d950e145c664dcdb2043192e30932a/examples/google_cloud_function/app.rb#L10
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14:09:14 <nakilon> this is awful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma
14:11:03 <nakilon> what's the point to use "and" and "or" then if there is already a comma there, just a cluttering
14:14:42 <nakilon> github's style is funny https://github.com/github/explore/blob/main/docs/styleguide.md -- "Avoid using "users" in favor of developers" -- there are no users now, only developers ..D
14:23:13 <b_jonas> oh yeah, you said something about size
14:26:12 <velik> output: "35 ", exit code: 0
14:26:43 <b_jonas> \rasel Z 1-:.81\?j$0C-j 0@
14:26:44 <velik> output: "34 0 ", exit code: 0
14:27:25 <b_jonas> \rasel Z 1-::.81\?j$0C-j 0@
14:27:26 <velik> output: "34 34 0 ", exit code: 0
14:27:43 <b_jonas> \rasel Z 1-::.81\?j$0E-j 0@
14:27:44 <velik> output: "34 -34 ", exit code: 0
14:28:11 <b_jonas> \rasel Z 1-::.81\?j$0F-j 0@
14:28:12 <velik> output: "34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 ", exit code: 0
14:28:28 <b_jonas> \rasel Z14// 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:28:29 <velik> output: "139 138 137 136 135 134 133 132 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 1
14:28:35 <b_jonas> \rasel W18// 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:28:42 <b_jonas> \rasel W16// 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:28:52 <b_jonas> \rasel W15// 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:28:58 <b_jonas> \rasel W14// 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:29:00 <velik> output: "127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 ", exit code: 0
14:29:09 <b_jonas> \rasel W14//0G-- 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:29:16 <b_jonas> \rasel W14//0D-- 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:29:17 <velik> output: "140 139 138 137 136 135 134 133 132 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12
14:29:22 <b_jonas> \rasel W14//0E-- 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:29:36 <b_jonas> \rasel "groot".W14//0D-- 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:29:43 <b_jonas> \rasel W14//0D-- 1-::.81\?j$0H-j 0@
14:29:44 <velik> output: "140 139 138 137 136 135 134 133 132 131 130 129 128 127 126 125 124 123 122 121 120 119 118 117 116 115 114 113 112 111 110 109 108 107 106 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12
14:29:51 <b_jonas> so this is the maximum that we can output
14:30:31 <nakilon> https://github.com/Nakilon/nakiircbot/blob/32633794d50407ed981d15b7ec1f4a8b2d2923fa/lib/nakiircbot.rb#L51
14:30:42 <b_jonas> not easy to abuse, but luckily we have other bots on the channel that are easier to abuse and also have a more convenient (though still somewhat esoteric) interface
14:31:02 <nakilon> the above velik's message is 437 chars long, and the rest 63 are gone for IRC protocol I guess
14:31:26 <nakilon> maybe I should limit the function to 400 chars output to not miss the end
14:31:44 <nakilon> I mean... you'll miss it anyway but at least you'll see the exit code
14:34:37 <nakilon> "luckily we have bots to abuse" (c) b_jonas
14:58:30 <nakilon> wtf "Unless you're using a free third-party client which invokes GitHub's API, using some major features of GitHub requires nonfree JavaScript, which makes it unsuitable for free software hosting."
14:59:04 <nakilon> I guess he owns https://github.com/esolangs but abandoned the Github for the above "reason"
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15:23:03 <fizzie> The overhead isn't always terribly easy to calculate, because it depends on things like your hostname as seen by others (cloaked), and sometimes even whether they have that identify-msg capability on.
15:23:55 <fizzie> (Actually, how does the standard 512-byte payload-plus-crlf length limit work with IRCv3 message tags? Are they just exempt from the limit or what?)
15:24:15 <fizzie> Oh, I guess: "The size limit for message tags is 8191 bytes, including the leading '@' (0x40) and trailing space ' ' (0x20) characters. The size limit for the rest of the message remains unchanged at 512 bytes."
15:26:07 <fizzie> (With half allocated for the client to use and the other half for server-added tags, so that your message doesn't go over the limit no matter what the server adds to it.)
15:26:34 <cd> I wish the IRC message limit was more consistent and less historically limited
15:26:59 <cd> But increasing it would probably break many clients
15:30:14 <nakilon> < @badge-info=subscriber/4;badges=subscriber/3,bits/1000;color=;display-name=volker027;emotes=;flags=;id=b0830d66-7cd5-4f03-b330-cd565a0710c9;mod=0;room-id=96726033;subscriber=1;tmi-sent-ts=1621460923658;turbo=0;user-id=478416199;user-type= :volker027!volker027@volker027.tmi.twitch.tv PRIVMSG #twigglesoft :Hi Twiggle and Chat 😀
15:30:40 <nakilon> didn't try to enable them here yet
15:32:47 <immibis> if you are a free software purist you can't even use github because the server isn't free
15:33:23 <cd> nor most of the Internet
15:33:32 <cd> free software purism is very silly :I
15:34:52 <nakilon> I failed to understand what does the "nonfree Javascript" mean
15:35:10 <cd> “It’s not GPL as such bad”
15:35:46 <cd> People like that tend to treat not-GPL as blasphemy
15:35:53 <nakilon> V8 is BSD, ye, such a difference...
15:36:13 <nakilon> like if someone makes him pay for Chrome
15:37:08 <cd> In the context of games it’s even worse, as often times there what people /really/ mean by free is “I can build myself a copy so I don’t have to pay shit.”
15:38:05 <myname> nonfree javascript is js that you aren't allowed to copy and modify among other things
15:38:31 <myname> sure, you _can_ copy every script that is run in your browser, but you can also copy every program that is run on your cpu
15:38:46 <nakilon> I doubt he ever needed to copy or modify it
15:39:22 <nakilon> especially to use a Github
15:39:29 <myname> sure, most people don't need to modify the linux kernel
15:39:39 <myname> that does not mean people don't like it being free
15:40:09 <nakilon> people care about wrong things
15:40:23 <myname> they do, but freedom is not one of them
15:41:09 <Taneb> All software is free software if you're willing enough to break the law
15:41:31 <Taneb> (for legal reasons I do not encourage breaking the law)
15:41:47 <nakilon> I use Windows without paying and without breaking the law ..\
15:42:29 <Taneb> nakilon: different definition of "free" I think
15:42:31 <nakilon> (I mean, until I cracked it)
15:43:17 <nakilon> you are free to use it for personal entertainment, and it was free to download from microsoft.com but those links are dying for some reason
15:43:21 <myname> no need to crack windows, you can just deactivate the license check with standard tools
15:44:02 <nakilon> the "you are not activated" in the corner is exactly what annoys
15:44:25 <nakilon> people laugh at your screenshots
15:44:30 <myname> i'm not sure if this stays, i haven't touched a private windows in years
15:44:50 <myname> imagine making screenshots of your desktop to share
15:45:47 <nakilon> don't everybody on linux do that?
15:45:57 <nakilon> I saw even websites where they have galleries of them
15:46:13 <myname> a screenshot of my system would just be whatever applications are open
15:46:14 <nakilon> like a part of their forum
15:46:51 <nakilon> do you have a waifu as a background of your terminal?
15:47:16 <myname> https://opensource.com/sites/default/files/uploads/advent-herbsluftwm.png actual screenshot of what my system looks like
15:47:56 <nakilon> damn I should fork ubuntu to make that "your system is inactivated" in the corner
15:48:10 <nakilon> there is Russian meme "Bolgen OS"
15:49:32 <nakilon> sometimes on TV journalists love to make news about "genious kids from deep of Siberia" and one was a local prodigy who even "made his own OS that his school is now trying to adopt"
15:50:00 <nakilon> and it was Bolgen OS -- an Ubuntu with his custom boot screen logo
15:50:48 <myname> we had something similar, some people claimed making a revolutionary new os that runs windows as well as linux applications
15:51:00 <myname> it was basically some mainstream linux distri with wine
15:51:09 <cd> windows 12!
15:55:21 <myname> maik mixdorf was the dude
15:57:29 <Sgeo> Windows Sandbox seems to be unactivated. It's kind o annoying
15:58:10 <myname> they claimed to write 52 million LOCs with a team of 3 programmers :D
15:59:46 <Taneb> myname: lots of copy paste, or lots of IDE code generation I wonder
16:00:28 <Taneb> That's almost 16k lines per person per day
16:03:54 <nakilon> our pythonist made a 1.2 mln lines long commit
16:05:11 <nakilon> people can have a talent of commiting a lot
16:06:20 <nakilon> and github is full of the /vendor directories and probably even /node-modules or how it's called
16:06:24 <arseniiv> love hyperboloid model even more: when you find the intersection of two distinct hyperbolic lines, their corresponding planes always intersect in a line. If it’s timelike, that means an usual intersection point; if null, that means an ideal point (the lines converge) and if spacelike, the lines diverge; and we can try to say they intersect in an imaginary point (like some imaginary conics stuff sometimes used when solving euclidean conic problems)
16:12:03 <arseniiv> trying to decide should I write a simple SVG rendering of simple hyperbolic geometry things (like to illustrate various kinds of isometries there) and what computational model to use in that case. Hyperboloid coordinates are too stretched out when going far away from the origin, OTOH Poincaré disk is ailed by converse, and these two models seem best in computational ease?..
16:14:23 <arseniiv> hm maybe floating point is good with hyperboloid model. How much precision is lost when doing arccosh(cosh(θ)) and arcsinh(sinh(θ)) asymptotically?..
16:15:09 <nakilon> you might wanna check if Mathematica already can do that
16:15:36 <nakilon> I mean making is simpler to render that stuff
16:16:42 <arseniiv> ah, I used its graphics functions many times, yeah. Though I want to move on to freer software :)
16:16:59 <arseniiv> I generated many cool things with it, though
16:18:21 <arseniiv> like this one https://i.postimg.cc/hcMqY6Xz/mandala3.png
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16:33:45 <arseniiv> about arcsinh(sinh(θ)): when θ is large, it’s just ~ log(exp(θ)) so there’s some amout of precision, though it fluctuates a bit: mantissas of exp(θ) near 1.0 are worse than those near 2.0
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17:15:10 <nakilon> lol "zzo38 is the only esolanger who has an entry in Urban Dictionary."
17:17:04 <nakilon> arseniiv https://www.reddit.com/r/generative/
17:22:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JaydenIrwin * New user account
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17:24:52 <arseniiv> nakilon: oh much thanks!! I value procedural art things though I almost don’t do them myself at all, but still. Hopefully there are many useful ideas to use
17:25:37 <nakilon> arseniiv it's my dream to earn for life by selling drawing made by coding
17:27:05 <arseniiv> one time I used an untrained neural network with a subtle drift of weights to generate sound
17:28:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RubyPiec * New user account
17:28:52 <arseniiv> as expected it didn’t work quite well but still had made interesting sounds sometimes: https://freesound.org/people/arseniiv/packs/22686/ (warning: sometimes very harsh noise)
17:30:02 <arseniiv> what might be interesting is that despite the high sampling rate, it sometimes generated pretty low frequency tones
17:31:45 <arseniiv> so that should have been due to very long prominent cycles between “neurons”. And it I made initial networks more interesting rather than just uniformly random, then we might hear something magical…
17:32:04 <arseniiv> that was generated in Mathematica too
17:32:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83402&oldid=83343 * RubyPiec * (+258) introduction :o
17:33:06 <esolangs> brctl: see "brctl: help ignore" (filter by nick) and "brctl: help filter" (filter by text content) for the two available commands
17:33:31 <arseniiv> also I should warn they say Freesound’s streaming quality is lower than what you’d get by first downloading and then listening in your favorite player
17:34:55 <arseniiv> that’s not obvious at all from just listening online without an offline downloaded reference, but it seems to be true
17:35:30 <fizzie> int-e: On that note, the way ignore lists and filter expressions are persisted is, I manually list them out in a query before restarting the bot and write them up in a config file. ;)
17:35:53 <fizzie> So if you change something and it reverts, it was probably me forgetting to do that.
17:36:07 <fizzie> (Not that the lists have changed so far.)
17:39:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83403&oldid=83402 * JaydenIrwin * (+192) /* Introductions */
17:44:09 <int-e> hmm, I recognize only 18 people/bots both here and there (but I'm matching by nick except esolangs=esowiki) put differently, there are 47 unique users here, 37 unique users there
17:44:52 <int-e> that seems about right, actually
17:44:56 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83404&oldid=83274 * JaydenIrwin * (+14) /* S */
17:45:31 <esolangs> [[SF Code]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83405 * JaydenIrwin * (+19) Created page with "This is a new lang."
17:48:54 <esolangs> [[SF Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83406&oldid=83405 * JaydenIrwin * (+189) Started page
17:51:58 <fizzie> I think this might be the only parallel-universe channel I'm on that has a majority here.
17:52:27 <fizzie> Though I parted two that moved officially.
17:53:59 <int-e> #haskell is at 443 vs. 673, ##math at 244 bs. 702, that's the two biggest channels I'm in
17:54:42 <int-e> #haskell has semi-officially moved, but is probably being held back by the lack of matrix bridge
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17:55:29 <int-e> (which is being worked on)
17:56:23 <int-e> ##math is so far from FOSS that I'm actually pleasantly surprised by those numbers
17:58:24 <int-e> what's even more telling in the case of #haskell is that the latest discussion was about how to register a nick when libera requires SASL
17:58:47 <fizzie> #go-nuts is 282 vs. 492 (with an in-review CL to change the website, but I don't know if that's going to go through) and #c/##c is 344 vs. 855, I think those are my biggest ones.
17:59:11 <esolangs> [[SF Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83407&oldid=83406 * JaydenIrwin * (+863) added symbol table
18:03:41 <nakilon> also consider editing the IRC channel here if anyone cares https://github.com/angrykoala/awesome-esolangs
18:03:48 <arseniiv> <int-e> ##math is so far from FOSS that I'm actually pleasantly surprised by those numbers => maybe the majority of its participants are other FOSS channel regulars? Erm it took me so long to remember “regular” and find it in a dictionary…
18:04:28 <arseniiv> so they hopped in a natural manner, not because of just ##math only
18:06:22 <nakilon> "might be the only parallel-universe channel I'm on that has a majority here." -- yeah, 328 / 76 for #ruby
18:06:37 <nakilon> I think the bridge is doing it
18:07:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * JaydenIrwin * uploaded "[[File:SF Code on Mac.png]]"
18:08:46 <fizzie> I think fungot did it.
18:08:46 <fungot> fizzie: the texts parliament has voted for the fnord should be facilitated in claiming discretionary concessions available to pensioners from the state in the recitals, as parliament had already issued a global pronouncement on that second phase in november 1996 and 24 february 1997, the top priority of the intergovernmental conference.
18:08:59 <nakilon> this channel is like a maternity hospital
18:09:03 <fizzie> Also I think we've had enough of politics for a while.
18:09:06 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
18:09:08 <nakilon> seeing new languages being born lol
18:14:09 <esolangs> [[SF Code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83409&oldid=83407 * JaydenIrwin * (+611) description
18:15:04 <nakilon> maybe #math users rarely have BNCs
18:15:22 <nakilon> so mostly they consist of "alive" people
18:16:44 <nakilon> I think you could CTCP VERSION spam everyone to check ..D
18:18:03 <int-e> also I imagine there's quite a few BNC-type people there who joined to ask one question and just stayed even though they never looked at the channel again
18:18:21 <int-e> you know, people who are on 100+ channels anyway
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18:28:53 <HackEso> zzo38: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
18:33:25 <zzo38> Daniel Temkin was writing to me with interview questions. But, so far they only sent to me one set of questions and some clarifications which I have responded to both; they haven't sent to me the second set of questions yet.
18:34:43 <fizzie> This was the esoteric.codes person? (I'm bad with names.)
18:39:48 <nakilon> zzo38 I have an interview question for you
18:40:05 <nakilon> what is the game named Aksana? it sounds almost like Russian name
18:43:15 <river> https://mathoverflow.net/questions/393688/generate-all-possible-theories-compatible-with-axioms/393713#393713
19:00:28 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck Assembly Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83410&oldid=82690 * Olus2000 * (+243) No more No-ops
19:02:15 <zzo38> nakilon: It is a ZZT game
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19:17:02 <nakilon> cool, it's playable in browser
19:18:55 <zzo38> Yes, and there are many other ZZT games too
19:19:59 <zzo38> Including, XYZABCDE.ZZT. (It says that ZZT is not Free software; that was true at the time the game was written; I didn't know that a year later ZZT would become Free software. Now ZZT is Free software.)
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19:37:56 <fizzie> https://libera.chat/news/one-week-of-libera-chat "We have managed to finalise registrations of 250+ projects, and we’re getting more and more all the time. Our backlog is as large as our finished registrations!"
19:38:49 <fizzie> For the record, our ticket number is in the 500-600 range, so I'm thinking it might be a while. Even if they're not all real.
19:39:40 <fizzie> (Not that I think lack of official recognition is exactly blocking anything.)
19:39:52 <nakilon> on which day did you apply #esolangs request?
19:40:41 <nakilon> so it was like 60% of the current age?
19:41:45 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, if there's a dispute about who the channel name belongs to that staff has to handle (unlikely for #esolangs), they can just review the registration request ahead of the queue for that
19:43:10 <nakilon> if their "backlog is half done" and they've processed 250+, then it's only 600 tickets there
19:43:33 <nakilon> if ours is 500-600 then it's like no one requests anymore but I very much doubt
19:43:46 <fizzie> I think I heard something (fourth-hand information at this point) about spam to the project registration address, which might have generated extra ticket numbers that they don't actually count in their queue.
19:45:22 <nakilon> what does the "project registration" mean anyway? the channel is registered
19:45:42 <nakilon> is it about the control over #esolangs-*?
19:47:15 <fizzie> In practical terms, not much. It'd allow us to claim #esolangs-* channels, yes, but I don't think we're planning to.
19:47:39 <fizzie> Unless I migrate #esoteric-minecraft that has just had myself and Sgeo joining and parting for the last N years.
19:48:57 <nakilon> oh, they gave me #ruby-ru 6 minutes ago ..D
19:52:27 <river> would it be possible to program in minecrafting using items?
19:57:25 <fizzie> There's definitely esolangs-y aspects to minecrafting, but the #esoteric-minecraft channel wasn't about that, we just had a social Minecraft server for hanging-out and building nonsense.
19:58:58 <nakilon> IIRC there is a Minecraft mod that operates docker
20:03:03 <fizzie> According to some screenshots I found, the version of the game at the time was Minecraft Alpha v1.2.2.
20:05:23 <nakilon> the first version I played was able to spawn nether portal by F4
20:05:44 <nakilon> I remember my first death ..D
20:06:26 <fizzie> Ooh, I found one of those generated map pictures too. https://gamma.zem.fi/~fis/civilization.png
20:14:32 <Taneb> Ah, I remember #esoteric-minecraft
20:27:23 <arseniiv> I crushed my metaphorical teeth trying to SU(1, 1) ≅ SO(1, 2) (Poincaré ≅ hyperboloid). I should have searched for the exact expression of this iso but I was lazy and hopeful
20:35:31 <arseniiv> <river> would it be possible to program in minecrafting using items? => with droppers and various item filters (I don’t remember how are they made but IIRC they use hoppers and comparators) and various water elevators and water / blue ice conveyors and chutes you can move items in diverse ways. Also pressure plates of different properties detect different amounts of items; and you can duplicate (using something farmable) and destroy them
20:38:16 <arseniiv> using dispensers with a bucket inside, you can switch water on and off, and you can send these buckets around, though conditional on whether a hopper can steal a bucket from inside a dispenser (I think it can?)
20:38:57 <arseniiv> though shuttling many items around is poor for FPS and also they can start to despawn
20:39:47 <arseniiv> anyway there are lots more ways to transport items there, like sliding down honey or something
20:42:46 <nakilon> this reminded me the last line of this article https://esolangs.org/wiki/Anarchysm
20:44:27 <nakilon> https://esolangs.org/wiki/File:Minecraft_Pistons_Hello_World.png
20:47:16 <arseniiv> there was something like that (people running “program requests”) somewhere at reddit or in IRC
20:51:03 <zzo38> I think that, should be added into C, the command for adding on to an existing macro. There are some other things that would be helpful too
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21:58:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DynCoder * New user account
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22:10:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83411&oldid=83403 * DynCoder * (+220) added me
22:10:53 <esolangs> [[User:DynCoder]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83412 * DynCoder * (+29) Created page with "Person who created [[goatoo]]"
22:16:51 <esolangs> [[User:DynCoder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83413&oldid=83412 * DynCoder * (+72)
22:18:29 <esolangs> [[User:DynCoder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83414&oldid=83413 * DynCoder * (+0)
22:18:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Unsquare]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83415 * Bangyen * (+485) Created page with "== [[Hello, world!]] == I'm pretty sure the correct program is as follows: <pre> OA++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Po IA++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++P..."
22:19:25 <shachaf> int-e: My friend had a slightly different collision problem: Given hash functions f and g, find x and y such that f(x) = g(y)
22:20:36 <int-e> shachaf: there's a standard solution for that: define h(x) = if p(x) the f(x) else g(x), where p(x) is a pseudo-random predicate
22:20:38 <shachaf> The solution I ended up with is pretty simple, but it's kind of neat.
22:21:01 <int-e> shachaf: then any collision of h(x) is a collision between f and g with 50% probability
22:21:02 <shachaf> Oh man, that's my solution. Except I just used the low bit of x, which should be fine here presumably.
22:21:32 <shachaf> Do you happen to have a reference for this?
22:23:33 <int-e> I think I've seen a name attached to it.
22:23:57 <int-e> I wish I could remember :P
22:24:37 <int-e> shachaf: maybe ##crypto knows
22:26:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83416&oldid=83404 * Fpstefan * (+16)
22:28:56 <Sgeo> I wonder what a NetHack TCG would be like
22:29:27 <shachaf> I wonder what a Sandwich TCG would be like.
22:32:40 <fizzie> fungot: What would a NetHack TCG be like?
22:32:40 <fungot> fizzie: they say that you can defeat a killer bee is like eating a wraith is a force for good. the markings, teeth, creating a tremendous vice-like bite... piranhas are attracted to any disturbance in the dungeon, these swarming monsters are created evil, thieves, and sake.
22:32:54 <fizzie> I think it would contain at least those elements.
22:33:15 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:37:48 <nakilon> there should be a game where enemies are named after esoteric languages
22:39:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:Unsquare]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83417&oldid=83415 * Bangyen * (+138) /* Hello, world! */
22:39:56 <nakilon> the Brainfuck monster according to its name would aim in the head attacking with psy waves
22:41:55 <nakilon> to defeat them you should write code in them
22:46:05 <esolangs> [[Pointfree programming]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83418&oldid=74534 * Fpstefan * (+124)
22:46:30 <int-e> shachaf: well, that went well.
22:46:34 <zzo38> I like a rule that you need not use the officially printed cards; you can use your own that contain the same text, if the mass, size, etc matches the official ones. If you are not using card sleeves, the back must also match.
22:47:36 -!- imode has changed nick to FuckAndrewLee.
22:47:43 -!- FuckAndrewLee has changed nick to imode.
22:50:45 <esolangs> [[Unsquare]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83419&oldid=67140 * Bangyen * (+125)
23:01:15 <int-e> shachaf: So, of course it's attributed van Oorschot and Wiener, the same people who came up with the distinguished points parallel search, and even the same paper.
23:03:23 <esolangs> [[Goatoo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83420 * DynCoder * (+3439) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Goatoo |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:DynCoder]] |refimpl=[https://github.com/Joshua260403/goatoo GitHub] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |memsys=..."
23:03:47 <esolangs> [[Goatoo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83421&oldid=83420 * DynCoder * (+11)
23:04:07 <shachaf> int-e: Right, I just realized this paper was already in my paper collection, and was just the original parallel rho/lambda paper.
23:04:20 <shachaf> So surely it should be cited one way or another.
23:24:24 <velik> output: "<j2,@,Yj#?\\13:\"", exit code: 3
23:25:32 <river> \rasel <j3,@,Yj#?\13:"
23:25:33 <velik> output: "<3@Y#\\3\x00\"", exit code: 3
23:25:39 -!- salpynx has joined.
23:28:44 <esolangs> [[RASEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83422&oldid=83396 * Nakilon * (+20) Quine
23:30:45 <nakilon> somehow it's twice shorter than Befunge quines
23:33:56 <fizzie> Not the Funge-98 quines though.
23:34:22 <fizzie> (With the leading space.)
23:36:12 <nakilon> rosetta code has shorter Befunge than on Esolangs http://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/Quine#Befunge
23:37:28 <fizzie> Odd that we don't have that one, it's the kinda-obvious one.
23:38:09 <cd> probably "reading source is cheating" mentality
23:38:38 <fizzie> Nah, the one we do reads the source.
23:39:01 <fizzie> It just does a bounce-around loop instead of the wraparound loop.
23:39:49 <fizzie> I imagine that could be replaced by the Rosetta Code one, at least as far as quine aesthetics go.
23:41:06 <fizzie> The stringmode quines get a little long in Befunge-93 because there's no coalescing of spaces, so you end up with having to trim them manually, and it gets slightly verbose to do on one line.
23:41:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:Clockwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83423&oldid=83388 * Bangyen * (+202)
23:41:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:Clockwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83424&oldid=83423 * Bangyen * (+2)
23:41:55 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83425&oldid=83416 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+13) /* G */ Goatoo
23:42:24 <fizzie> Here's a Befunge-98 version with no leading space: <@,+1!',ka$"
23:43:34 <nakilon> hm, so funge-98 does not go around in the loop
23:43:53 <nakilon> maybe I could do that too with negative jump
23:43:56 <fizzie> `` echo "<@,+1!',ka$\"" > /tmp/q.b98; /hackenv/interps/cfunge/cfunge /tmp/q.b98
23:44:33 <fizzie> Annoying to escape something that contains both a ' and a " in bash.
23:44:48 <fizzie> (Is there something like Perl's arbitrary-delimiter thing?)
23:46:30 <nakilon> I don't get it why the space or $ in your example
23:47:07 <fizzie> In stringmode, the infinite empty space around the program gets coalesced into a single ' ' character.
23:47:18 <fizzie> So the $ drops it; or the version with the leading space just contains it in the program.
23:48:19 <fizzie> Also applies to any intervening spaces. To quote from the spec: "In Funge-98 stringmode, spaces are treated "SGML-style"; that is, when any contiguous series of spaces is processed, it only takes one tick and pushes one space onto the stack."
23:48:56 <fizzie> For wrapping in Funge-98, conceptually you just apply the above rule to the infinite amount of spaces your string would otherwise have.
23:50:49 <esolangs> [[Clockwise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83426&oldid=83187 * Bangyen * (+100)
23:51:05 <esolangs> [[Clockwise]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83427&oldid=83426 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) /* Cat program */ Fix (thanks, Bangyen)
23:51:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Clockwise]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83428&oldid=83424 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+164) /* Cat Program */ Reply
23:54:38 <nakilon> ok, negative jumps sucks but I made it in one instead of two
23:54:42 <velik> output: "<@,Yj#?\\15:,\"", exit code: 5