> 1623197903 683361 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84252&oldid=84251 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-103) 10/* Graph rewriting */ This may not be true
> 1623198110 435984 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84253&oldid=84252 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+3) 10/* Examples */ ;;;
> 1623198757 14648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84254&oldid=84253 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+136) 10/* Graph rewriting */ It is
< 1623200065 289815 :rbtEngrDude!~textual@wsip-66-210-249-144.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN #esolangs rbtEngrDude :Textual User
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> 1623200879 678474 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NOTE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84256&oldid=84255 5* 03ResU 5* (+26) 10
< 1623201075 589885 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh wow, glorious work. I pulled out my copy of the bird book, and indeed, kestrels are not allowed in Bravura's forest!
< 1623201150 622349 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1
< 1623201331 234294 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch JOIN #esolangs DutchIngraham :dutch
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< 1623201650 798102 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, yeah. Smullyan points out that S is "duplicative", using arguments multiple times. The linear calculus, BCI, can't build S.
< 1623201662 16202 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION first thought the bird book was Bird & de Moor

< 1623201683 978313 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, and `S' can't build `K'
< 1623201689 391106 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Similarly, S can't build K, because K is "cancellative" and completely forgets an argument.
< 1623201725 242113 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I found https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-444-87508-2.50017-4 which is paywalled but suggests that this is so well-known that they try to use BCSI to *approximate* K-like behavior while admitting that K itself is not buildable.
< 1623201857 856645 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ski: Oh, sorry. The context is that Wolfram offered a cash prize for anybody who can show that S is (Turing-?) complete. But I was sure that the bird book had a disproof, and b_jonas did the hard work of looking it up.
< 1623201888 738539 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :mm, yea. (just finished reading that article)
< 1623201905 336961 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the Wolfram blag)
> 1623202966 733038 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84257&oldid=83239 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+198) 10Reformat command table
< 1623204064 259075 :rbtEngrDude!~textual@wsip-66-210-249-144.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN #esolangs rbtEngrDude :Textual User
> 1623204224 863715 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84258&oldid=84257 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+2083) 10Add explanations to all examples
< 1623204259 145307 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Wolfram already says any TCness has to be encoded in the non-terminating S combinator evolutions, so a direct K build is already ruled out
< 1623204290 592119 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Pokemon Card GB2 does not list the previous stages of cards in play
> 1623204292 218624 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<ski> 
ACTION . o O ( gnyrx ? )

> 1623204530 494280 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Shuffle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84259&oldid=84258 5* 03Enoua5 5* (+449) 10Add section explaining memory layout
< 1623204574 215790 :cd!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN #esolangs moony :mooooony
< 1623204645 314858 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even Ix will need to be a non terminating encoding of x, so Kxy = Ix  in some non terminating way which can be decoded by something that is not universal itself
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< 1623204786 765374 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :relevant quote from the announcement > And by “emulate”, what we mean here is that a suitable “encoder”, “detector” and “decoder” can be found that will allow any evolution in the system being emulated to be mapped to a corresponding evolution in the S combinator system.
< 1623204876 52424 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx: Can you explain more what you see? I would naively and reductively assume that the I combinator simply isn't represented here; there's no way to emulate its (lack of) evolution.
> 1623204981 908002 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84260&oldid=84254 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+13) 10Better wording
< 1623205167 463754 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not directly representable, but I guess that's the question: can it 'emulate' K's "cutting things down" via some kind of encoding? It'd have to include 'junk' data, which would have to be ignored by the decoder in the final step to get the result
< 1623205207 229288 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :more of Wolfram's writing linked to from somewhere in the announcement: https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2020/12/combinators-a-centennial-view/#the-world-of-the-s-combinator
< 1623205455 162049 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Naively I wondered if you could use both sides of every K in every computation, then pick the 'real' one at the end. That'd be super inefficient with the combinatorics, and I don't know how you'd pick the correct version at the end. and it's probably more complicated than 'doing things twice' with K arguments 
< 1623205733 882727 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess my take is that a working emulated K in this hypothetical system must accumulate 'junk' which can be 'easily' discerned from the result of computation by the hypothetical decoder. Examining whether that kind of mechanism is possible or not is an avenue of attack.
< 1623205807 437157 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :My gut feel is any 'junk' would get smeared out through the whole combinatoric expression over time, and separating it won't be possible without doing an equivalent computation
< 1623206042 6092 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also that Wolfram is talking about some meta computation requiring those “encoder”, “detector” and “decoder” external parts to the system, and that's possibly, as was said above by @b_jonas: "another weird game of defining what it means"
< 1623206218 652613 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can imagine a giant stream of combinator S's which take a single K as an argument, and duplicates and places the Ks where they need to go for reproducing any algorithm. No idea if that's helpful, but it's playing with separating parts of the system
< 1623206251 968955 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although we know something about their shape, at least. The bounded-time description should lead (by a handwave) to the encoder and decoder being katamorphisms.
< 1623206373 280264 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :But note that the encoder can be as simple as the identity function, if we're targeting SKI, so the question is whether there's some composition of S alone which yields K and I. IOW I think we get back up to what's been covered.
< 1623206536 229914 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh wow, https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/227904/solve-the-halting-problem-for-s-combinatory-logic implies that it's not Turing-complete. Reading the paper right now, but this could be it.
< 1623206863 817287 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's a good find. 
< 1623206933 340217 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think Wolfram know that though, and that's what I was picking up from his writing. To paraphrase what I think he's asking: Taking the infinite set of identifiable non-halting S Combinator expressions, is there some encoding which can give rise to an unresolvable halting problem in their evolutions? 
< 1623206996 39935 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(if there are not infinite non-halting evolutions, then it's really busted)
< 1623207068 115211 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Let the codec be a genuine equivalence computable in poly time. Then wouldn't the codec's existence contradict Rice's Theorem?
< 1623207075 271749 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Re-reading my paraphrase, that does sound sketchy, but I think that's what Wolfram is really asking.
< 1623207098 892787 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't want to unfairly strawman Wolfram's question, but I'm really not sure if there's more to it than that.
< 1623207236 297860 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Meh, "genuine equivalence" is vague and wrong. This isn't yet airtight, but it's suggestive.
< 1623207532 605721 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :wolfram's prize got its way to here, eh.
< 1623207570 100401 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :for S to be TC on its own it would have to re-order the expression so that past work doesn't get in the way of current work. because it can't, it's not TC. more rigorous proofs of that exist.
< 1623208272 68142 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Makes sense. It sounds like there's three different ways to slice that S isn't TC: S can't even implement K or I, Halting for S is decideable, and now imode's point about divergence and order of operations.
< 1623208422 442440 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's probably equivalent to a pushdown.
< 1623208428 975834 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Unrelated: https://github.com/TartanLlama/vizh Nice!
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> 1623212403 454130 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84263&oldid=84236 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+15) 10/* F */ added [[Forwards]]
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> 1623214512 569985 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DeBruijn14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84264&oldid=84180 5* 03S1(210) 5* (+40) 10making page conform more to esolang's style guide
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< 1623245240 348590 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: out of curiosity, is your IRC nick supposed to be from a bird too?
< 1623245347 744657 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if so, is it a combinator bird?
< 1623246001 503800 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat
< 1623246216 847679 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, so the norwegian/danish alphabet is supposed to have the last letters in the order "z æ ø å", but the swedish/finnish alphabet in the incompatible order "z å ä ö"? that decides my earlier question about encoding IRC nicks, the norwegian one is more natural because then the iso-646 encoding order matches the alphabet. but the different alphabetic order is still weird, I wonder how that got 
< 1623246222 833026 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :invented.
< 1623246268 51280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should have noticed this earlier because I've seen the swedish alphabetic order enough times and did look up the iso-646 encodings and should have noticed that it's in the wrong order
< 1623246646 45626 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :Russian alphabet ends with letters that are like a trash hidden in the corner of the room ШЩЪЫЬ and then suddenly perfectly normal vowels ЭЮЯ
< 1623247146 764292 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: 1. "Ю" is supposed to be a "normal vowel" but it's also one of the rarest letters, though admittedly "Ъ" is even rarer. I don't understand in what sense "Ш" is trash though. 2. the latin alphabet has trash letters too, in fact even the greek one has some at the end, and holes in the middle for the purpose of gemmatria, to preserve the original phoenician order. the hebrew alphabet is the 
< 1623247152 741956 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :only extant one that does not have trash at the end.
< 1623247402 321131 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :"I don't understand in what sense "Ш" is trash" -- the word traSH is literally ends with Ш; you can see that the "trash consonants ending" actually starts with Ф consonant: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C
< 1623247409 171507 :b_jonas_!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs * :b_jonas
< 1623247444 378572 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ъ and Ь aren't even either vowel or consonants -- they have no sound and words can start with them
< 1623247498 152711 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :*can't
< 1623247533 291859 :b_jonas_!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: sure
< 1623247606 690929 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :Mal Sproule
< 1623247617 13096 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :also you can see the Ж being the most rate in the "non-trash half of the alphabet" -- together with Ш they have a rule "can't place Ы after Ж и Ш" (mnemonically known as "ЖИ и ШИ пиши через И")
< 1623247714 310556 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :*most rare
< 1623247834 173458 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623247834 594720 :FireFly!firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623247834 865387 :Oshawott!~archenoth@S0106889e6827f474.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623247834 865439 :sprock!~sprocklem@user/sprock QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623247835 58880 :dionys!dionys@user/dionys QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623247835 123123 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623247835 214586 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623247849 449421 :Effilry!firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly JOIN #esolangs FireFly :firefly
< 1623247852 584550 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :such rules feel like a waste of entropy -- similar in English only U can go after Q and it's so weird that we didn't even learn it as a rule and I only realised it when I was like 20
< 1623247891 465592 :Effilry!firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly NICK :FireFly
< 1623247906 687345 :b_jonas_!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: were you 20 before or after Iraq was featured in the news a lot?
< 1623247913 267996 :b_jonas_!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu NICK :b_jonas
< 1623247913 609398 :Oshawott!~archenoth@S0106889e6827f474.cg.shawcable.net JOIN #esolangs Archenoth :archenoth
< 1623247927 761123 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :also Ж and Щ are the most wide letters in any font
< 1623247979 231668 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs * :rodgort
< 1623248022 953301 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :after
< 1623248051 707921 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/phistomefel-s-theorem-t38410.html
< 1623248096 88484 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1623248187 535910 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: yeah, I started to make a 6 pixel tall font, with variable width, where most characters are at most 3 pixels wide plus a 1 pixel gap (the gap is omitted between some pairs of characters), but because some letters are hard to draw that way, I have added a three-way option for whether "MNm" are all wide, or "Mm" are wide but "N" is narrow, or every ascii letter is narrow. these options also 
< 1623248193 542776 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :affect the russian letters, and indeed the three pixel wide versions are very ugly and mostly unrecognizable.
< 1623248210 949016 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should eventually finish that tiny font and use it for some esoteric project
< 1623248235 28384 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I won't use it for everyday work, I have a large-sized fixed width font for that that I should improve
< 1623248250 418589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the basics are fine but I have to add some new characters and redo the hastily done greek letters)
< 1623248259 588480 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :OCR developers might hate Ы letter
< 1623248416 500282 :dionys!dionys@user/dionys JOIN #esolangs dionys :dionys
< 1623248556 285168 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :can't find English word for  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0%B2%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82
< 1623248602 130636 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :^ my father was связист in the army -- it's where you send and receive in Morze
< 1623248628 731153 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :Signaller?
< 1623248634 778209 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :Radio operator?
< 1623248656 514654 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :so for speed considerations they were told to use Ижица (V) symbol for Ж because Ж was too big https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izhitsa
< 1623249013 796838 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :Taneb yeah, probably this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signaller "Signallers, a.k.a. Combat Signallers"
< 1623249037 472250 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk what's the exact difference between radio and signalling, радист and связист
< 1623249065 24935 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :Perhaps signallers are also trained with lamps or flags or something
< 1623249081 153197 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :Whereas radio operators have some electric engineering training?
< 1623249161 892228 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's weird to use the word "signal" in two so different cases
< 1623249294 313042 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, he was into the https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE (again no link to English wiki ..() that is about fixing and creating electronics yourself
< 1623249362 122131 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically he used only radio technologies, no visual stuff, the military base was underground actually
< 1623249438 161506 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would expect the English article to be named "Hobby electronics"
< 1623249502 936207 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_corps
< 1623249900 657742 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Ha, that's a fun idea! Curiously, it seems that Smullyan didn't use any corvids (blackbirds, magpies, ravens, rooks, crows, bluejays, etc.) for their bird list.
< 1623250950 43678 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should finish learning morse
> 1623251144 186314 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PaRappa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84285&oldid=83193 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+0) 10
> 1623251187 312655 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PaRappa14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84286&oldid=84285 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+2) 10
< 1623251235 780703 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :in amateur radio it is common to use the letter N in place of the numeral 9, for speed (-. versus ----.)
< 1623251335 233263 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :so for example a perfect signal report will be given as 5NN [..... -. -.] instead of 599 [..... ----. ----.] for a time savings of more than 50%
< 1623251461 21208 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the US it is possible to select your callsign (subject to restrictions) and operators who do a lot of CW (morse) will try to get one with a low "weight"
< 1623251510 685254 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :hah, didn't know that
< 1623251588 290124 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :imagine IRC transmitted in morze
< 1623251621 248545 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? morse
< 1623251623 930850 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​-- ..- .-. ... ..- / --- -. / ... ..- ..- .-. .. -.- --- -.- --- .. -. . -. / ...- . ... .. . .-.. .-.- -- .-.- .-.- -. / ... --- .--. . ..- - ..- -. ..- - / .- .-. -.- - .. -. . -. / -. .. ... .-.- -.- .-.- ... .-.. .- .--- ..
< 1623251632 707699 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :wat
< 1623251646 740324 :craigo_!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1623251647 46258 :craigo_!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1623251652 533184 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :`morse morse
< 1623251653 407637 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :morse? No such file or directory
< 1623251822 733178 :perlbot_!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1623251876 90908 :slavfox_!~slavfox@ipv4-93-158-232-111.net.internetunion.pl JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox
< 1623251889 233510 :craigo__!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1623251995 180933 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1623252128 67022 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN #esolangs imode :imode
< 1623252197 81193 :keegan_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com JOIN #esolangs * :beehive
< 1623252205 103694 :rodgort`!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs * :rodgort
> 1623252260 65221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:PaRappa14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84287 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+150) 10Created talk page
< 1623252298 106038 :craigo_!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623252298 227960 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623252298 479042 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623252298 633401 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623252298 961732 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623252299 36786 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623252299 85262 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1623252301 324693 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1623252301 372701 :slavfox_!~slavfox@ipv4-93-158-232-111.net.internetunion.pl NICK :slavfox
< 1623252301 372751 :perlbot_!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot NICK :perlbot
< 1623252459 573440 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :can't figure out what animal the URSU is
< 1623252549 172250 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN #esolangs Cale :realname
< 1623252653 45657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen
< 1623252811 730470 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Surely it's MURSU, not URSU.
< 1623252827 303323 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(And that's a walrus.)
< 1623252878 222278 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that's from the lead paragraph of https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mursu
> 1623252911 255837 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84288&oldid=84143 5* 03Grs 5* (-995) 10Replaced content with "Do you have any ideas to add something? -~~~ ~~~~~"
> 1623252933 670568 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OLNMLN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84289&oldid=84288 5* 03Grs 5* (-107) 10Blanked the page
< 1623253193 967306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: just looking through the logs and noticed that the new "has changed hostmask" showed someone's pre-cloaking host, which may be a bit unfortunate (although i think that means they're not following the advice of using sasl?)
< 1623253296 238544 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :`cbt morse
< 1623253297 153574 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :cat: /hackenv/bin/morse: No such file or directory
< 1623253303 114893 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :`which morse
< 1623253304 24210 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No output.
< 1623253309 825401 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: URSU is probably a bear; I don't know about MURSU
< 1623253310 824657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :shikhin: that was you by the way, you should use sasl
< 1623253315 24502 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah wait, it's ?
< 1623253329 74134 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's some wrong char in that string
< 1623253334 457314 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :leading non printable char
< 1623253349 770528 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it makes all online decaders fail to decode it
< 1623253355 265481 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :see https://xkcd.com/2381/
< 1623253356 811794 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :*decoders
< 1623253389 405013 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Smullyan didn't use any corvids" wait really? I thoguht he did... let me look up the English list
< 1623253411 178651 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes he did
< 1623253423 385394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic says "Blackbird" 
< 1623253487 700999 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` ruby -e "p '18:13:43 <HackEso> ​-- ..- .-.'.dump"
< 1623253489 44200 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​"\"18:13:43 <HackEso> \\u200B-- ..- .-.\""
< 1623253501 860587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: it's the invisible space which HackEso prepends if the output starts with non-alphanumerics
< 1623253510 953805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's to avoid triggering other bots
< 1623253521 162006 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :..\
> 1623253612 42373 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Caenbe14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84290&oldid=84237 5* 03Caenbe 5* (-173) 10
< 1623253673 949127 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh, nice, a bluebird of bluebirds. I guess I'm just a fancier sort of composition.
< 1623253681 268832 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: I still think this sasl thing is sort of a scam. I like SASL, but advertising it because some people's clients are broken and will join channels without waiting for nickserv identify to succeed is silly. waiting for nickserv to reply that you're identified, or waiting for the server to tell you your hostmask has changed if you do it for a cloak, isn't actually easier than doing the SASL stuff
< 1623253690 299189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/easier/harder/
< 1623253716 922482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: automatically?
< 1623253750 648764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think you may be biased by being a person who finds programming trivial hth
< 1623253769 200595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's the same sort of argument that leads to telling others that you shouldn't send notices because other people's clients are broken and render them wrong, or shouldn't send color codes because they annoy other people becuase their client shows them in ugly colors or whatever. 
< 1623253795 981804 :shikhin!~shikhin@user/shikhin PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: Yeah, whoops, too lazy to set it up just yet, but thanks.
< 1623253802 105600 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I won't call ability to join channels without identifying "being broken"
< 1623253844 816552 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's some flaw in the cloacking concept
< 1623253887 657167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: someone has to put the SASL thing in the irc clients too, just as much as the rest. you can say that it's worth because it works the same on multiple networks, so it's easier to implement because of that. in particular, nickserv id works backwards between libera/freenode and oftc. that would be a good argument, except for that if you try SASL on a server that doesn't understand SASL, you'll get 
< 1623253893 663594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :a hang. but that's not the argument they're making.
< 1623253915 583633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh well
< 1623253918 58288 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if your IRC client doesn't know SASL, and you don't know programming, it's just as hard to teach it SASL
< 1623253987 480121 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :just don't disconnect from the server *shrug*
< 1623253997 865728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :you're right, i was comparing apples and oranges
< 1623254030 671689 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you "know programming" you can set up a BNC and probably can find a machine with reliable network connection
< 1623254039 326385 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they could also make the argument that someone could guess when they'll reconnect after a disconnect, and WHO their hostmask before they rejoin the channel
< 1623254064 305788 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not against SASL, only against the stupid arguments that some IRC folks make about it
< 1623254090 322750 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and yes, freenode also requires SASL for some remote addresses as a way to control spam)
< 1623254228 777130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :so ideally WHO shouldn't be possible until the SASL has gone through either...
< 1623254244 80615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :no idea whether the servers enforce that
< 1623254324 309478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: yes, WHO isn't possible before SASL because your connection doesn't have a nick that WHO could target, nor a channel it's joined to
< 1623254342 620307 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :SASL is before you choose a NICK
< 1623254417 407983 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there any standard on "Tags" in the unicode table? like if I ask for "looks like a dot" and it would come up with . and · and •
< 1623254629 796647 :keegan_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :08:53 < nakilon> just don't disconnect from the server *shrug*
< 1623254635 781096 :keegan_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :in soviet russia, server disconnects from YOU!
< 1623254646 587317 :keegan_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :(been a lot of that this morning...)
< 1623254715 311822 :keegan_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :are the sore losers at freenode packeting libera?
< 1623254727 219332 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :this matches too many chars that are not dots https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/list-unicodeset.jsp?a=[:name=/\bDOT$/:]
< 1623254746 246907 :keegan_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :or is it just growing pains
< 1623254780 140841 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1623255319 393910 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :this utility gives different sets of analogues for two different dots
< 1623255327 51110 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/confusables.jsp?a=.&r=None
< 1623255329 586692 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/confusables.jsp?a=%C2%B7&r=None
< 1623255432 181424 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv
< 1623255483 248372 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :there should be some Unicode similarity graph, probably made manually
< 1623255633 87132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :keegan_: no, it's spammers who spam both freenode and libera
< 1623255647 909801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they target both, or whichever networks/servers are the most popular
< 1623255689 951394 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the sad part is when the spammers spam on freenode, then people go complain in #libera , even though the libera ops can't do anything to stop spam on freenode
< 1623255697 674387 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so please don't do that
< 1623255765 172538 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38
< 1623255868 279971 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: Yeah, I guess I could remove the old one from the rendered view, or just omit the event entirely; it's not a super-interesting one.
< 1623255897 495855 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The previous QUIT-and-JOIN combo contained the same information, I just wasn't rendering the hostname in QUITs (or JOINs).
< 1623255955 114713 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :also the https://util.unicode.org/UnicodeJsps/confusables.jsp tool can't find the char that looks like 'ф' that I saw somewhere just few minutes ago 
< 1623255972 900882 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :while the https://shapecatcher.com/ found it immediately https://i.imgur.com/STqB0fG.png
< 1623256095 911355 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Something I've always found slightly odd about CertFP auth is that the client needs to explicitly invoke SASL EXTERNAL to make the identification happen pre-login, even though it's not like there's any fundamental theoretical reason the server couldn't just... make it happen.
< 1623256326 29142 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: which one? ϕ (greek alternate) or a math or APL symbol?
< 1623256403 823719 :jryans!~jryansmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1d JOIN #esolangs * :@jryans:matrix.org
< 1623256405 367395 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :in that test search case I was looking exactly for the one that shapecatcher.com recognized
< 1623256538 151642 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: or ɸ the phonetic symbol?
< 1623256689 300338 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :"latin small letter qp digraph"
< 1623256714 173049 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I expected the tool at unicode.org to give me it if I ask it for ф or Ф
< 1623256727 935888 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :because they are what I'm able to type
< 1623256742 827703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: it does if you ask for ϕ
< 1623256753 942195 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1623256821 379215 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I don't have a way to type it
< 1623256891 147068 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :opt+ф types 'd', opt+a types 'å'
> 1623256980 407358 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84291&oldid=82999 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+38) 10Cat
< 1623257020 933897 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :those shapecatcher guys could make an excellent similarity graph
< 1623257188 874346 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 JOIN #esolangs * :Thelie
< 1623257602 910952 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1623257994 449194 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84292&oldid=84267 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+1) 10/* Binary Nu */
< 1623258046 989302 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"<nakilon> but I don't have a way to type it" => 
< 1623258048 42460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? font
< 1623258050 987391 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
< 1623258054 991132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :copy it from http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
< 1623258063 962316 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :from the greek block
> 1623259070 457897 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02Talk:OLNMLN10]]": Author request: blanked by only commenter
< 1623260154 829733 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would not know it's in greek block if you didn't tell me
< 1623260462 471666 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's a fricking greek letter phi
< 1623260467 556813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :how would it not be in the greek block?
< 1623260476 460926 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, it's an unnecessary second character for the same letter that already has one
< 1623260479 908676 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but still
< 1623260496 325265 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a tradition there of it appearing twice in some character sets, an old enough tradition, so it has to be represented twice in unicode
< 1623260513 152006 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and since that's an old enough tradition it was in the earliest versions of unicode in the 90s so it's in the greek block
< 1623260568 945606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can't even say it's wasting space, unlike some of the stuff that they put to the first (1<<12) code points, and yes, I was told that they hadn't invented utf-8 yet so they didn't know the first (1<<12) code points were special
< 1623260581 515845 :tiggilyboo!~tiggilybo@82-197-202-43.dsl.cambrium.nl JOIN #esolangs tiggilyboo :simon
< 1623260603 399633 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't imagine greek phi with that link pointing up, only down
< 1623260612 311653 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :for me it's a letter ф
< 1623260625 208785 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :*line
< 1623260742 366083 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: to me it seems like the one with the straight line is a printed/carved form and the one with the loop is the handwritten form, sort of like the italic vs roman forms of many of the latin/cyrillic letters, which is why it's odd that it's double-encoded, but the greek script doesn't do that for many letters, so phi and theta got singled out
< 1623260818 160176 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's probably Knuth who popularized having both in the same font in the same book
< 1623260839 898607 :tiggilyboo!~tiggilybo@82-197-202-43.dsl.cambrium.nl QUIT :Client Quit
< 1623260922 727752 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :also you write ф and phi differently -- in Russian it's like 8, you go up when switching from left half to right one, now like in phi where you just move right
< 1623260954 775592 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or perhaps it was Adobe, since one of their standard postscript fonts has both
< 1623260957 958278 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure
> 1623260993 797710 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84293&oldid=82352 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+98) 10
< 1623261010 357422 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: oh, you're saying that it's not actually similar to the russian phi so if you're searching for characters that look similar in appearance to the russian phi you wouldn't think to look in the greek block?
< 1623261054 763912 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that makes more sense
< 1623261079 134245 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1623261126 890470 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw
< 1623261154 283378 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :that unicode.org tool does not give "qp digraph" for phi too
< 1623261160 131621 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :just checked
< 1623261174 146237 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what qp digraph? 
< 1623261198 275002 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://i.imgur.com/STqB0fG.png
< 1623261218 358302 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the second time I have a feeling you missed this link)
< 1623261279 923813 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I've ever seen that
< 1623261293 600837 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :makes sense
< 1623261294 477263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Additions for Africanist linguistics
< 1623261300 875758 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :hah
< 1623261304 847272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" the unicode PDF says
< 1623261314 714290 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :but somehow I saw it just two hours ago
< 1623261317 239875 :keegan_!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com NICK :keegan
< 1623261327 998751 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then to test the unicode.org tool I tried to find it
< 1623261336 92361 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are a lot of such supposedly roman letters that are only used as either phonetic symbols or trying to make a transcription for africian languages by linguists
< 1623261340 594559 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :by asking to show me letters similar to ф
< 1623261358 267133 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, they might exists but I ignore most of them unless they also happen to have some more common use
< 1623261390 312067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :most of the latin extended C block is such rare letters; this one is in latin extended B which has some more normal stuff
< 1623261654 789065 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1623261858 557142 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1623261889 718575 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 JOIN #esolangs * :Thelie
< 1623262084 203054 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :if I had the similarity graph I would make such tool that... 
< 1623262176 967556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Labial-uvular stops are much rarer, but have been found in three Mangbutu-Efe languages spoken in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Uganda: Mamvu, and Lese."
< 1623262193 858410 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :you type "dot" and it finds all these chars https://unicodelookup.com/#dot/1 then finds the one with the smallest distance sum to all the rest and lists all them sorted by distance to that one
< 1623262217 113829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i guess that's what those africanists are studying
< 1623262239 32040 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :...printing all these chars one per line, filling the line by all the chars in unicode that look like them
< 1623262243 92909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :* linguists
< 1623262302 892175 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I mean not similarity graph but similarity matrix)
< 1623262369 650310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm nope, it's apparently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_labiodental_plosive
< 1623262390 435482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :_much_ less exotic
< 1623262511 391943 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have no idea what the "labiodental" mean but Afrika is Африка
> 1623262542 579085 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RGB4D14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84294&oldid=84271 5* 03ProtoBit 5* (+763) 10Added truth machine program and some minor formatting improvements
< 1623262569 541668 :tiggilyboo!~tiggilybo@82-197-202-43.dsl.cambrium.nl JOIN #esolangs tiggilyboo :simon
< 1623262570 391742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: f actually is labiodental
< 1623262586 833508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :although this symbol represents a stop, not a fricative
< 1623262605 499676 :tiggilyboo!~tiggilybo@82-197-202-43.dsl.cambrium.nl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1623262610 629019 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :Αφρική
< 1623262618 82554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :it means it's made with lips touching teeth
< 1623262628 439538 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :did anyone like my sudoku link?
< 1623262633 386020 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :bottom lip upper teech? I see
> 1623262640 567061 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84295&oldid=84273 5* 03ProtoBit 5* (+12) 10Added RGB4D to the language list
< 1623262652 19053 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv I did
< 1623262657 3723 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :ty
< 1623262691 560341 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :my father loved solving sudoku
< 1623262723 350210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i used to but i'm out of practice
< 1623262766 916672 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :we were buying those newspapers and other printed things with them but he said they have too many digits already already filled in
< 1623262818 770531 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I've found that one guy in internet was collecting the sudoku boards that had the minimal number of digits shown, IIRC it was 18, and he had an archive of thousands of them
< 1623262873 699646 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I made my father a program that he launches and it makes a PNG file with next puzzle ready to be sent to printer
< 1623262920 132766 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv
< 1623262968 907285 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I felt like he finds it to be less interesting than buying in a kiosk
< 1623263016 68143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: print them on cheap low quality paper and give yours to the kiosk to sell them back to him?
< 1623263033 33242 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :sounds like a business idea
< 1623263059 144469 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, they can sell extra copies to others
< 1623265748 98940 :DutchIngraham!~DutchIngr@user/dutch QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1
< 1623265867 885990 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch JOIN #esolangs DutchIngraham :dutch
< 1623266392 170463 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1623267164 478565 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1623267488 802984 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what do you do when Newton’s method doesn’t make the root more accurate when it appears it could add another decimal digit? The equation is polynomial, even a simple one: x^N − x − 1 = 0. I make numpy give me roots, pick the largest real one and try to make it better
< 1623267554 557975 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there’s at least one case when naive algorithm x ↦ (x + 1) ^ (1/N) makes x^N − x − 1 closer to zero than this approach
< 1623267563 854272 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1623267591 523476 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :N = 11 if I’m not mistaken
< 1623267635 106916 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, no, N = 11 is fine, two Newton iterations suffice
< 1623267728 13445 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I don’t need to chase bits, I guess I’m fine with 1e−15 errors too
< 1623267802 70534 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :finally some rain and thunder here
< 1623267841 135816 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :velik, good thing you don't have to deal with floating point right?
< 1623267892 460829 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :seems improbable there was no major rain for two or more weeks. Usually the climate here is more humid in summer, I even despise rains sometimes, when the weather is cyclonic and cold and all that windy unsummery stuff
< 1623268061 678206 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: is the magnitude of the derivative significantly less than 1 at the root? 
< 1623268074 21413 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it should be, otherwise you shouldn't use Newton's method as is
< 1623268109 884613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or something like that, that's probably not the right criteria, I'm bad at this
< 1623268201 87279 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: gotta analyze, but I think it should be decent
< 1623268397 330112 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the derivative at the root is N − 1 + N x^−1, and as x > 1, that’s always > N − 1; for large N it’s asymptotically 2 N − 1 as x → 1
< 1623268450 465564 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that’s float magic we’re to blame here
< 1623268504 60444 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also maybe the root values are okay and the error is more due to x^N − x − 1. I’ll check with a CAS maybe
< 1623268807 95975 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1623269411 766323 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84296&oldid=84283 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+243) 10/* Introductions */
< 1623270560 170241 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1623271966 828789 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: ok, but I'm not sure that's actually the right condition
< 1623271986 163650 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you may have to look up what the actual condition for stability is
< 1623272005 108785 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: yeah
< 1623272015 749153 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I’m pretty satisfied as it is
< 1623272032 37376 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: by the way, you do know that reinventing the wheel for computing the root of a polynomial equation on the reals is in general a bad idea unless you're really good at numerical analysis, because there are existing good libraries for it, right? you can still do it for practice or learning
< 1623272037 825168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or for esoteric purposees
< 1623272154 692749 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I know! I actually started with the existing numpy function for that and I still use it
< 1623272198 871610 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but two Newton iterations on top of it make things even better though, for better or for worse (actually, just a single one is necessary for large N)
< 1623272201 504486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :very good
< 1623272224 796119 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also it’s a headache to write your own numeric code in large quantities!
< 1623272764 640771 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did make Newton fractal before, which is based on Newton's method
< 1623273022 893236 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1623273523 11499 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07A returns a14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84297 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+3768) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{wrongtitle|title=a{a}}}  '''a{a}''' (pronounced a returns a) is an esolang that is based on recursion. A function is just a list of cases, and can be defined b..."
< 1623273830 195423 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1623274042 468187 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84298&oldid=84295 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+23) 10/* A */
> 1623274095 789450 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Jetison33314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84299 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+82) 10Created page with "So far I've made one esolange, [[A returns a|a{a}]], but I hope to make more soon."
> 1623274190 853326 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07A returns a14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84300&oldid=84297 5* 03Jetison333 5* (+1) 10
< 1623274461 504341 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1623275260 103553 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1623276278 576971 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1623277191 862473 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1623277825 679667 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://ai.facebook.com/blog/nethack-learning-environment-to-advance-deep-reinforcement-learning/ might have some overlap with people on this channel too.
< 1623278251 935841 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :meh, wanted to make IRC morse encoder/decoder the only morse ruby gem that can encode Cyrillic is packaged in the wrong way (with dependencies lock file included) while one of the dependencies is made in the wrong way (has binary with a name 'console' that is conflicting)
< 1623278328 889099 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :yesterday I learned that the average length of working at Facebook is 8 months
< 1623278365 161847 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 JOIN #esolangs salpynx :[https://kiwiirc.com] salpynx
< 1623278418 289551 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :(missed ", but" somewhere above)
< 1623278703 384982 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :when your repo is a dependency for 4500 other repos and all them don't install because you can't ./bin properly https://github.com/krisleech/wisper/issues/183
< 1623278712 69488 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does that average take internships into account too, I wonder.
< 1623278724 597986 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie idk
< 1623278820 525790 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was in a "podcast" talk interview with a girl who's currently in some consulting about how to build things
< 1623279139 712168 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1623279386 457904 :mnrmnaugh!~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1623279554 349532 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1623279807 565694 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh no!
< 1623279817 176518 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you esoteric guys are infecting me
< 1623279850 4039 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I felt a sudden urge to spell "preemptive" with a diaræsis. I could suppress it this time, but it's worrying
< 1623279959 570828 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Just coöperate with us and you won't get hurt.
< 1623280010 130669 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I saw "coöperation" spelled that way in a book (of fiction) somewhat recently.
< 1623280092 179410 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :“So we’re competing against a fuel cell for the available oxygen?” Arsibalt asked.   “Think of it as coöperation.”   (Anathem, Neal Stephenson)
< 1623280165 474171 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: that doesn't work, "ö" and "ü" just look to me like it's an umlaut changing the vowel value rather than a diaresis to separate adjacent vowels, unless perhaps it's in French text where they look a bit more confusing (even though "ö" and "ü" are very rare in French in that context)
< 1623280194 159898 :mnrmnaugh!~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net JOIN #esolangs mnrmnaugh :realname
< 1623280199 936463 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but "ë" does look like it has a diaresis, because I don't see that one used as an umlaut often
< 1623280219 742515 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not saying it never happens, but it's not as common as with "ö" and "ü"
< 1623280228 259317 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :what should the minimal resolution of a glyph be.
< 1623280280 234370 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, I do find myself forced to think of the Finnish ö (/ø/) sound whenever I see ö in "coöperation", and it does sound pretty silly.
< 1623280282 314752 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :imode: depends on the script, I am working on a 6 pixel tall tiny latin font, but I'd never consider a 6 pixel tall kanji or hangul or vietnamese font, those just need more space
< 1623280306 807217 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION prefers powers of two.

< 1623280358 269713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :even "ä" looks like an umlaut to me, even though technically "ë" as umlaut is more common in Hungarian, but "ä" is prevalent because of all the german and swedish texts
< 1623280410 746242 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :gimme da chonky 8x8 glyphs.
< 1623280443 383587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :1x1 is the best minimal power of 2 hth
< 1623280444 51454 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :8 pixel tall is well proven on many older computer displays and printers
< 1623280467 806766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fecupboard20 my font is 20 pixel tall, that's why it's called that
< 1623280472 173459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? oërjan
< 1623280473 860420 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :oërjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1623280524 36918 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there used to be a fecupboard16, but I no longer use it, it doesn't have decent character coverage, it doesn't look nice, and I'm not distributing it because it's not a free font
< 1623280549 458401 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I used to use it on VGA text console 
< 1623280608 889887 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think my SparcStation 5 had a 12x22 pixel font in its ROMs.
< 1623280630 905701 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it was a little quirky though.
< 1623280643 617853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1623280657 955857 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :something I'm contemplating is doing sub-glyphs.
< 1623280684 610378 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :either shipping an 8x8 or 4x4 "shape" pack and building glyphs on top of that.
< 1623280695 529541 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :so your text would probably be chonk.
< 1623280926 910462 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://mrmotarius.itch.io/mrmotext
< 1623281197 579531 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a02:8106:215:3300:e7ad:5ab7:4ea0:e177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1623281248 428043 :craigo__!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1623281502 720395 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have 8x8 fonts for code page 437, 850, 865, 866, and 1125.
< 1623281589 934473 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :are there really thousands of codepages now.
< 1623281638 241129 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: not for 852? 
< 1623281642 94554 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs ::P
< 1623281673 720088 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesn't even DOS 6.22 include one for 852 that you can enable with MODE ?
< 1623281694 537071 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :by changing to 852 codepage and to 50 line mode on VGA that is
< 1623281730 74331 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but if not, you can just make such a font from a 8x8 unicode font with enough coverage
< 1623281820 514515 :gundalow7!~gundalow@223.205.235.108 JOIN #esolangs * :gundalow
< 1623281820 603225 :gundalow7!~gundalow@223.205.235.108 PRIVMSG #esolangs :／！\ THIᏚ CHΑNⲚEL HAЅ MΟVEᎠ ΤO IᏒC．LⅠBΕᎡA．ϹHAТ ＃НAMᎡADIΟ /ǃ＼
< 1623281820 603377 :gundalow7!~gundalow@223.205.235.108 QUIT :K-Lined
< 1623281857 21377 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol.
< 1623281915 719981 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode /ǃ＼
< 1623281916 821263 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​[U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+01C3 LATIN LETTER RETROFLEX CLICK] [U+FF3C FULLWIDTH REVERSE SOLIDUS]
< 1623281921 463298 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :brctl: filtered
> 1623281921 463373 PRIVMSG #esolangs :brctl: Filter expressions: (/|⧸|／)(!|！|ⵑ|︕)(\|﹨|＼|⧵) /!\\
< 1623281954 231005 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, it might be missing U+01C3 in the middle part.
< 1623281966 886997 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode /!＼
< 1623281968 79659 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​[U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK] [U+FF3C FULLWIDTH REVERSE SOLIDUS]
< 1623281997 767663 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :language and writing is complicated.
< 1623282015 551333 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :brctl: unfilter (/|⧸|／)(!|！|ⵑ|︕)(\|﹨|＼|⧵)
> 1623282015 552462 PRIVMSG #esolangs :brctl: unfiltering
< 1623282026 238966 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :brctl: filter (/|⧸|／)(!|！|ⵑ|︕|ǃ)(\|﹨|＼|⧵)
> 1623282026 240110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :brctl: filtering
< 1623282031 453889 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder what subset of UTF-8 will fit in an 8x8 character cell.
< 1623282061 118897 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :By definition all of it, unless you put a fidelity requirement on it.
< 1623282073 422638 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's 2^64 different 8x8 characters, after all.
< 1623282103 240914 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :legible characters.
> 1623282121 333632 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84301&oldid=83935 5* 03Batata 5* (+60) 10
< 1623282125 310463 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's just a matter of training your users, surely.
< 1623282126 299479 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :guess I should just learn to read in 64-bit code blocks.
< 1623282307 893010 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :▜▘▌ ▝ ▗▖  ▄▖  ▗▖▄ ▄   ▌ ▗   ▌ ▄ ▖▖ ▌  ▟▖▗   ▖▖▗ ▗▖▗ ▗▖▄ ▝ ▄▖▗   ▖▖▝ ▟▖▌ ▗ ▖▖▟▖  ▗▖▗ ▄ ▟▖▗ ▖▖▟▖  
< 1623282311 898677 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :▐ ▛▖▐ ▘▖  ▖▘  ▌ ▄▌▌▌  ▛▖▛▘  ▛▖▄▌▛ ▞▌  ▐ ▌▌  ▛ ▛▘▌ ▌▌▚▌▌▌▐ ▖▘▛▘  ▙▌▐ ▐ ▛▖▌▌▌▌▐   ▌ ▌▌▌▌▐ ▛▘▞▖▐   
< 1623282315 905050 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :▝ ▘▘▝ ▀   ▀▘  ▝▘▀▘▘▘  ▀ ▝▘  ▘▘▀▘▘ ▝▘   ▘▝   ▘ ▝▘▝▘▝ ▄▘▘▘▝ ▀▘▝▘  ▀▘▝  ▘▘▘▝ ▝▘ ▘  ▝▘▝ ▘▘ ▘▝▘▘▘ ▘▝ 
< 1623282368 687258 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :is that a 2.
> 1623282370 814548 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Batata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84302&oldid=84301 5* 03Batata 5* (+45) 10
< 1623282378 78467 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :"this 2 can be hard to recognize without context"
< 1623282387 918408 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's a "z", as you can tell from the same pixels in "recognize".
< 1623282394 42685 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :aha.
< 1623282405 991103 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :▀▖  ▐ ▄▖  ▄▖  
< 1623282406 39106 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :▞   ▝ ▄▖  ▖▘  
< 1623282406 39204 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :▀▘  ▝     ▀▘▝ 
< 1623282411 750263 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :fair.
< 1623282425 150617 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I tried to use that font at work in Chat, but while it made the block-drawing characters monospaced, the spaces stayed proportional, and it went all wrong.
< 1623282448 530326 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :the 'e' looks all fucked up, like it compressed it.
< 1623282472 283203 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I.. actually do not know whether my terminal font is monospaced. I think it is.
< 1623282496 29771 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :imode: Many of the lwer code page numbers are EBCDIC rather than ASCII, so the code page numbers used modern are high larger numbers.
< 1623282508 778305 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I don't have 852.
< 1623282516 986859 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: meant it to be a joke.
< 1623282549 795521 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there a code page number for TRON?
< 1623282561 390284 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://zem.fi/tmp/ref.png if you want to see a reference rendering. I do like the "z" in that though.
< 1623282581 933535 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh that looks nothing like mine.
< 1623282594 504238 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :everything is all cronched together.
< 1623282627 348624 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you added curvature/smooth corners to the block shapes, it'd be better.
< 1623282635 318301 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least more parseable.
< 1623282641 677597 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's probably some sort of a width difference between space and the blocks, because that's a good description of what it looked like in Chat.
< 1623282669 123101 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah. those blocks are definitely compressed length-wise for me.
< 1623282692 223229 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :because the top pixel on the 'e' is like, 1px by 8px.
< 1623282728 85793 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Huh, that's awkward. Oh well.
< 1623282740 764557 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION needs a new font.

< 1623282848 761358 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Code page 852 is one of the ones I wanted though, so that if Berusky game is ported to Free Hero Mesh, that the proper orthography can be in use. (Also maybe should be added the possibility to use other font sizes too, although currently a lot of the code assumes that 8x8 fonts are used, so they will need to be changed if it is to be implemented.)
< 1623282920 373741 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Heh, well... it didn't turn out great in my web browser on the logs page either: https://zem.fi/tmp/ref2.png
< 1623282982 829290 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :And that's styled as `font-family: monospace;` and all.
< 1623282990 871550 :imode!~imode@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :eugh that alignment.
< 1623283053 338972 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :My own opinion is that Unicode is bad for grid-based text displaying.
< 1623283072 378001 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: that's an interesting tiny font. has some decisions different from what I made in my tiny font
< 1623283093 721123 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :even if it's the same size, most of the letters differ
< 1623283174 844781 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's the one I did for rfk86, I think with the main inspiration being mooz's TI-86 Befunge interpreter's font probably, though it's not exactly same as that one either.