> 1623544077 668805 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84400&oldid=84395 5* 03ResU 5* (+17) 10 > 1623545199 926429 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Coeus14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84401&oldid=78485 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+150) 10Added a section Interpreters with a reference to my implementation and changed the category to Implemented. < 1623546576 459165 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1623546613 937379 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in > 1623546970 877763 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84402&oldid=84357 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+2108) 10 < 1623547029 895564 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Excess Flood < 1623547042 15172 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in > 1623548019 383341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84403&oldid=83539 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+400) 10/* Program too long to add into page */ new section > 1623548094 17974 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84404&oldid=84385 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+16) 10Added [[Godencode]]. < 1623548115 249259 :lukalot_!~lukalot@23.82.138.38 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1623548519 833074 :xkapastel!user@2600:3c03::f03c:92ff:fe1a:4503 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1623548896 229062 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84405&oldid=84400 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+87) 10Added an infinite loop. First really simple program. > 1623548923 703299 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84406&oldid=84405 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+1) 10Forgot the code formatting. < 1623548982 118867 :xkapastel!user@2600:3c03::f03c:92ff:fe1a:4503 JOIN #esolangs xkapastel :unknown < 1623549838 3846 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Why do they use YCoCg rather than YCgCo? < 1623550217 410272 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It seem to me that YCgCo is making a better prediction based on the valid range due to the value of the previous channels) > 1623550305 601448 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84407 5* 03Ais523 5* (+1030) 10reply > 1623550470 523462 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84408&oldid=84407 5* 03Ais523 5* (+269) 10what about linking to the language page? > 1623552070 643028 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84409&oldid=84408 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+124) 10 > 1623552406 860862 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84410&oldid=84409 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+158) 10 < 1623554034 31712 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623554071 584347 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Client Quit < 1623554661 998381 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: you mean like how you order the information in jpeg and such formats? how it would work better if you ordered the channels differently? I don't even know what order it has the channels in. I guess you'd have to test whether it yields a better compression, and of course that may depend on the progressive JPEG scheme. you would have to use an encoder that can take the YUV values directly rather < 1623554668 12928 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :than RGB though, and I'm not sure what encoder can do that -- I mean ffmpeg can but its jpeg encoder is also terrible and not configurable so it's not a fair test, maybe libjpeg can but I don't know how < 1623554724 776872 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though the YUV space that JPEG uses isn't quite the same as YCoCg apparently < 1623554737 904708 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm confused by so many different linear transformations of color spaces < 1623555057 893281 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you'll have to ask the HAM enthusiasts of esolangs < 1623555096 66336 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1623555169 109624 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1623555170 133641 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1623556031 132937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1623558989 899310 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I don't mean JPEG, since I think JPEG doesn't take advantage of the order of the channels to make predictions and that stuff. But, it seems to me that the valid range of values for Cg can depend on Y, and the valid range of values for Co can depend on Cg and Y once they are known. < 1623559010 983434 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Actually I did make up a picture compression based on this, and it seems to work a bit better than PNG < 1623559047 344393 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and, unlike PNG, does not require guessing things in order to improve the compression) < 1623560038 967444 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623560106 117811 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Client Quit < 1623561078 442304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: oh yeah, it's Huffman compression after that linear transformation on blocks, you' < 1623561113 556903 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :re right that it can't take advantage of that kind of thing. I guess I was thinking of PNG, where the deflate step *can* take advantage of correlation between channels < 1623561127 941870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so JPEG was irrelevant < 1623561271 707132 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should have known that, because I know how JPEG worked, but I didn't realize. oh well. < 1623561321 528452 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but still, if you think something like flipping the order of chroma channels can help, which I doubt, then you might want to experiment with that on more modern image/video compression formats, ones where it could matter < 1623561339 320189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I doubt that just flipping two channels would help, but still < 1623561349 454087 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not all that good about image compression < 1623561405 619486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had some ideas about them and thought about it enough to realize just how difficult the topic is < 1623561474 982348 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :See the piccomp.c file (SHA-1 hash is c4e5438e358e174cde4b25ecd536d52f59beb702) in TeXnicard < 1623561591 664604 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically I tried to think of how to design a good image compression algorithm, and I didn't find a way to get the properties that I want, anything I try would either be bad at compression or would be impossible to implement efficiently, and I have also experimented with existing video compression libraries and they're just too good < 1623561603 299876 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :What properties do you think that you want? < 1623561624 417607 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it shouldn't stop me from thinking of course, but I haven't been able to think of a good enough design yet, so I want to think about it more before I can implement anything < 1623561786 309622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: basically the problem is that decoding something variable width like Huffman is hard in a way that takes advantage of the SIMD capabilities of a CPU (or the same of a GPU). you can parallelize decompression and compression by handling individual large chunk of course, and all the other parts, as in color space transforms and DFT or other linear transforms and PNG-like prediction from previous < 1623561792 317907 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :value and video compression's testing which neighboring block is the most similar or even estimating the motion delta more efficiently than trying every possible delta, those can be done in SIMD < 1623561820 730609 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but for the variable bit size huffman-like compression in the end (it doesn't necessarily need to be huffman, could be arithmetic coding) you have to iterate through individual values in series < 1623561833 885574 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think what PNG does compressing the filter types together with the pixel data is a bad idea; it would be better to be separate < 1623561884 703145 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if you want something that avoids that, better predicting how much to shift the input data or have a fixed width encoding, that is possible, but then you probably have to rearrange the output pixels in an unpredictable order which is even worse, or do some other intersting thing, < 1623561895 893588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think it's probably possible to avoid this trap, but I couldn't yet think of a good way, < 1623561915 980284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I should read up if any existing algorithm does that and still manage to do not terrible compression < 1623561965 338193 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and also think about how it could be done < 1623561996 560973 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because that's what I'd like to see form an algorithm, at least for *decompression*, it could be slower for compression perhaps, though it's also worth to have other compression methods that are also fast to encode < 1623562196 188547 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is some balance between slower compression as a price for slightly smaller encoded form while keeping the same quality and decompression time, and a more important tradeoff of slower compression and decompression and much larger encoded size for better quality, and good image/video encodings already offer both tradeoffs as a somewhat tunable parameter < 1623562245 176682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though there is something odd here now that I think of it < 1623562245 711648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait < 1623562292 781426 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm no, nothing > 1623564950 288238 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84411&oldid=84366 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-2) 10/* Truth Machine */ < 1623571659 510968 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1623571834 473271 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1623572052 503370 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623572149 972538 :imode!~imode@user/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1623573038 421961 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84412&oldid=84411 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+12) 10/* Truth Machine */ < 1623574132 167675 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him > 1623575134 665172 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84413&oldid=84412 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+17) 10/* Fizz Buzz */ < 1623576047 991711 :sweatsuit!~sweatsuit@119.42.76.3 JOIN #esolangs * :sweatsuit < 1623576048 592564 :sweatsuit!~sweatsuit@119.42.76.3 QUIT :K-Lined < 1623576477 415117 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1 < 1623576644 720932 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't get it < 1623576690 562997 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is function k7*x**7+k6*x**6+k5*x**5+k4*x**4+k3*x**3+k2*x**2+k1*x+k0 and this should be its derivative, right? k7*x**6+k6*x**5+k5*x**4+k4*x**3+k3*x**2+k2*x+k1 < 1623576785 444845 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the bottom line doesn't look like derivative of upper one https://i.imgur.com/Pljjzyq.png < 1623576804 898153 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesn't get above 0 in the middle < 1623576825 139222 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1623576850 784574 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :k0..k7 = [86.37483858758613, -4.3258409149187855, 0.13119312931328275, -0.0022258811427750126, 2.156489053721058e-05, -1.1221319014114155e-07, 2.8163872939164175e-10, -2.530165279150212e-13] < 1623576971 102644 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh no, forgot to multiply by 7, 6, ... < 1623578421 187562 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623578711 771175 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas I've got another example https://i.imgur.com/BlsjZrI.png -- problem here is that they use several different captcha generators and this one doesn't rotate but skews the letters < 1623578901 54714 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623579122 120949 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: yeah, that can help with the captchas < 1623579158 365738 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :uhm, the derivative of k7*x^7 isn't k7*x^6 but 7*k7^6 < 1623579188 352560 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :same issue with each other part of the sum except the last because x^1 will get a factor of 1 < 1623579214 494082 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, bit surprise, captchas are made to be hard to read > 1623579334 179991 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ultlang 5* 10moved [[02Delta Salein Ao10]] to [[Delta Salein ]]: the actual name < 1623579352 49030 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :this one is skewed too, not rotated https://i.imgur.com/dVMMdkT.png > 1623579382 335973 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Delta Salein 14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84416&oldid=84414 5* 03Ultlang 5* (+5) 10 < 1623579450 168710 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :gotta somehow differentiate them to switch the way of chosing the closest line dot -- using "min x1-x2" instead of "min hypot x1-x2, y1-y2" < 1623579526 503739 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :or just try both ways until I see which one makes better results on the OCR stage < 1623579872 28234 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1623580046 30116 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623580125 950230 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1623580525 113268 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84417&oldid=84389 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+827) 10Revamped the commands, all [x] input will be used as an index + fixing some mistakes < 1623581585 935499 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1623581737 796229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Quit: brb < 1623581808 930649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal < 1623583104 258321 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :myname: yes, and nakilon corrected himself about the derivatives a few lines later, and this time I wasn't hasty enough to reply before reading that > 1623583362 508367 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Column14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84418&oldid=84413 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (+137) 10 < 1623583565 220917 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv > 1623583746 174252 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NumberPankackes14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84419 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+1110) 10Created page with "==NumberPankackes== NumberPankackes is a stack-based esoteric programing language what a stck is: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Stack ==Commands== 1X: pushes X to the st..." > 1623583784 817375 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:TinyGuy3214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84420&oldid=84394 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (-829) 10Blanked the page < 1623583808 681582 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there a tool that lets me easily cut a picture from an image out/remove background < 1623583817 547582 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :GIMPs 'intelligent scissors' aren't that great for it < 1623583848 289942 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel like with modern stuff.. it should be possible to just draw a rough outline and get a perfect cutout > 1623584094 666961 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84421&oldid=84404 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+44) 10 > 1623584350 149252 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NumberPankackes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84422&oldid=84419 5* 03TinyGuy32 5* (+2) 10 < 1623584363 31682 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: it really depends on the image, but try ones that require both a positive and negative sample, that is, points marked strictly inside and strictly outside the object, rather then a rough outline. try (1) GIMP's new foreground select tool, and (2) the GMIC QT gimp plugin's colorizer tools, which are intended to color black and white photos and black and white line art respectively (that's two < 1623584369 145705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :separate tools) based on another image with sample points of color in the objects, but you can ask them for the masks of which colors go exactly where and use that to get a selection mask that you use for something other than selecting an object < 1623584387 396966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they aren't perfect, but I think they work better than GIMP intelligent scissors < 1623584419 459167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://gmic.eu/ to download the G'MIC QT Gimp plugin on windows; install from distro on debian < 1623584449 132801 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :note that Gimp has a decent ABI so the same plugin compiled once can be reused for different minor versions of GIMP < 1623584516 709057 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which means you can install G'MIC QT from debian and it will work for a newer version of Gimp that you install from source, as I learned < 1623584541 418448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was back when Gimp 2 wasn't yet in debian and I really really wanted Gimp 2 so I installed from source < 1623584553 169966 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :now Gimp 2 is in debian stable, and I love that < 1623584669 705041 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623584731 326177 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623585709 314074 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: tech_exorcist < 1623585764 692829 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him < 1623586087 844179 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :now the correctness is limited by how well I apply dilations to make skeletonization go well https://i.imgur.com/ckuQeDp.png < 1623586130 759717 :freon!~freon@c-73-210-167-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs freon :[https://web.libera.chat] freon < 1623586145 663771 :freon!~freon@c-73-210-167-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1623586151 333166 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv there was online service < 1623586154 978928 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: yes, and that part is hard < 1623586182 59848 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :this or maybe it's a clone https://www.remove.bg/ru < 1623586319 784872 :freon!~freon@c-73-210-167-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs freon :[https://web.libera.chat] freon < 1623586462 53396 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://i.imgur.com/Ux0aQTH.png < 1623586512 430058 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :thanks < 1623586578 182412 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually could apply the whole process twice but pixels are rotting > 1623586603 783879 PRIVMSG #esolangs : are you trying to teach bot to cheat at captchas? < 1623586641 728437 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, script that would send me new vacancies from local job search site > 1623586664 685255 PRIVMSG #esolangs : note that there was a fun trick at some point where captchas consisted in two words; the first word was meant to tell whether the user was human or not; the second word was much easier to decipher and actually came from scanned books > 1623586686 948724 PRIVMSG #esolangs : and in two months they had digitalized an entire library without optical recognition software < 1623586704 435186 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah I guess that was recaptcha < 1623586723 190071 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :now they are teaching self-driving cars < 1623586909 478684 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: and Google Maps to read house numbers from blurred photos, surely you noticed those captchas < 1623586960 722737 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :blurred or just photos taken from the distance by self-driven cars to teach them navigate? > 1623587010 54940 PRIVMSG #esolangs : I don't remember house numbers < 1623587070 745603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: not deliberately blurred, just taken from a distance either by the same cars that Google Maps uses to make street view, or more likely by the airplane cameras that they used to make the incredibly high resolution "satellite view" from five different camera directions that isn't actually from satellites < 1623587102 111455 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :didn't know about airplanes < 1623587114 25705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :as in, satellite view _is_ from satellites in most areas of the map, but in those places it's also low resolution and only has one camera direction < 1623587139 869211 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so in more populated places that most people view on the map, they used airplane cameras, which can give much higher quality < 1623587146 431954 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would explain how they made all the trees and buildings 3d in there < 1623587151 71640 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :just because they're closer < 1623587193 894255 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: well that's only part of it, part of the 3D buildings are modeled from their street view photos and from random location-tagged photos from the internet corellated by really clever software, the same way as we model 3d objects from 2d photos except they do it better < 1623587247 994079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and of course some of this is just speculation because they don't tell all the details about how they got every image, they only tell when that was a requirement to buy a license of pictures that other people made not specifically for them > 1623588034 831821 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07NumberPankackes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84423&oldid=84422 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-45) 10Link to page directly > 1623588070 492248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84424&oldid=84421 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-22) 10/* Non-alphabetic */ Remove duplicate < 1623588139 790118 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :at first they were croudsourcing < 1623588158 829752 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was called Warehouse 3d and people could make models of things in Sketchup < 1623588174 67484 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sketchup was freeware and a great fun > 1623588242 156455 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07What Mains Numbers?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84425&oldid=64983 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+35) 10/* Implementations */ Cat < 1623588248 497795 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I made models for 2-3 buildings in my town, uploaded and they were in Google Earth since then; but now I can't even find them on their website, idk < 1623588281 664626 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could create collections and become moderator of them, similar to how people build wikipedia > 1623588321 133296 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Soundandfury/ECLAIR14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84426&oldid=33340 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+13) 10/* Implementation */ Deadlink < 1623588408 764144 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1623588432 184953 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen < 1623589548 743961 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623589680 944370 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623590026 673586 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1623590113 498796 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat > 1623590332 885874 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Column14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84427&oldid=84418 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-42) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1623590357 889683 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FolderCode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84428&oldid=84361 5* 03Dominicentek 5* (-41) 10/* Development Kit */ > 1623590450 991431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Plasmath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84429&oldid=84393 5* 03Plasmath 5* (-66) 10Added [[Godencode]]. > 1623590990 425567 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84430&oldid=83967 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+20) 10I'm trying to add Godencode, but it hasn't been letting me. Making it a 2-step process might work? < 1623591264 471866 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1623591338 346569 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84431&oldid=84430 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+47) 10 < 1623591752 61919 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-138-70.play-internet.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1623592030 501543 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-138-70.play-internet.pl QUIT :Client Quit < 1623592075 473554 :tiggilyboo!~tiggilybo@2001:8a0:e61c:6100:12dd:c998:f4e2:a9df JOIN #esolangs tiggilyboo :simon > 1623593025 243489 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Cheese14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84432&oldid=83055 5* 03Sanscicondos 5* (+49) 10 > 1623593049 570770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Cheese14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84433&oldid=84432 5* 03Sanscicondos 5* (+13) 10Added Version 1.3.5 to Github < 1623593461 987221 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623594920 340897 :tiggilyboo!~tiggilybo@2001:8a0:e61c:6100:12dd:c998:f4e2:a9df QUIT :Quit: tiggilyboo > 1623595732 147771 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kermek 5* 10New user account > 1623596102 280684 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84434&oldid=84388 5* 03Kermek 5* (+407) 10 > 1623596153 767451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84435&oldid=84434 5* 03Kermek 5* (-76) 10 > 1623596182 375248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84436&oldid=84435 5* 03Kermek 5* (-6) 10 < 1623599370 456186 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :made the second pass https://i.imgur.com/Jq2LUCj.png < 1623599869 464198 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1623599941 520328 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84437&oldid=79507 5* 03Cybertelx 5* (+15) 10Added LongDick language < 1623599962 16545 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623600725 990802 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1623600807 471041 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LongDick14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84438&oldid=83816 5* 03Cybertelx 5* (+19) 10link me < 1623601138 948565 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1623601837 991791 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname > 1623601992 828902 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07VBF14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84439 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+2464) 10created the page > 1623602060 877902 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07VBF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84440&oldid=84439 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+15) 10add "and transpiler" to implementation link > 1623602416 884153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07For The Worthy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84441 5* 03Kermek 5* (+5730) 10Created page with "'''For The Worthy''' is an esolang witch only interprets the '1' and '0' characters, thus enabling programmers to reach their final hackerman form. ==Language Overview== ===In..." > 1623602519 753322 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Greetings all. I have a quick question. Is the sort of completeness that Godel talks about equivalent to TC under the Curry-Howard correspondence? > 1623602662 898930 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84442&oldid=84424 5* 03Kermek 5* (+21) 10 > 1623602702 98396 PRIVMSG #esolangs : And, if so, is it fair to say that one way to describe the split between computer science and mathematics is in how each field responds to Godel's incompleteness theorem? i.e. mathematicians err on the side of consistency while computer scientists err on the side of completeness? < 1623602733 380198 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623602951 980326 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :Godels completeness theorem states that in a first order logic, if a formula is true in all models it is provable < 1623602960 952448 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv < 1623603005 432472 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :Godels incompleteness theorem states that arithmetic (and extensions) contain statements that are neither provable or disprovable < 1623603097 680035 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :the halting problem gives an explicit example of a problem that cannot be solved by a turing machine > 1623603113 787149 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:VilgotanL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84443&oldid=83804 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+10) 10add vbf to language list > 1623603134 618013 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Right, and under the Curry-Howard correspondence, a type system is in some sense equivalent to a Hilbert style deductive system in logic. If a no non-normalizing expression is well typed, then the corresponding logic is consistent, right? < 1623603167 128407 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :Curry-Howard correspondence equates proofs and programs > 1623603205 849634 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Yes, and formulas as type definitions, among other things, right? < 1623603214 82946 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :generally consistency of a typed lambda calculus based logic is proven by showing (A) strong normalization (B) False does not have a normal form - this implies consistency as inconsistency would let you prove False < 1623603235 289929 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :orbitaldecay72: If you want the short answer, then yes, by Lawvere's fixed-point theorem: http://tac.mta.ca/tac/reprints/articles/15/tr15.pdf > 1623603266 512271 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Yeah, looking for the short answer to test my intuition. Thanks for the link. > 1623603269 847475 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Appreciate you both. < 1623603270 635293 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :This is a very abstract category-theoretic statement. It can be specialized to get Gödel's Incompleteness, and also to get Turing's Halting. > 1623603303 210975 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Looks like I need to learn category theory :) < 1623603346 91554 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :The completeness that Godel talks about is not the same as turing completeness < 1623603364 887666 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :the fact that there are problems a turing machine can't solve is a type of incompleteness < 1623603383 820859 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that there were many different reactions to our discovery of computability theory. I don't think it's reasonable to cleave computer science from maths; computer science is the study of algorithms and data structures, which is a special case of studying abstraca. < 1623603388 143171 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :turing completeness <- may be better referred to as turing equivalence < 1623603437 932524 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, I misread the original question, sorry. < 1623603474 4853 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Gödel's Completeness is quite different from Gödel's Incompleteness! I don't know how the former relates to Turing's work, sorry. > 1623603493 114325 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Okay, so in the Curry-Howard sense the halting problem corresponds to some theorem that can neither be proven nor disproven? > 1623603496 981159 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Np, thanks Corbin > 1623603539 255768 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Sorry for my vagueness > 1623603546 439975 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Still learning < 1623603546 742997 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/avigad/Teaching/halting.pdf there is a direct proof here of godels first incompleteness theorem using the halting problem as the key element, rather than godels original proof which used a self referential formula as the key element > 1623603565 335057 PRIVMSG #esolangs : riv: beautiful, this is exactly what I was looking for > 1623603566 458228 PRIVMSG #esolangs : thanks < 1623603572 862306 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :> in the Curry-Howard sense the halting problem corresponds to some theorem that can neither be proven nor disproven? < 1623603574 439862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘in’ > 1623603585 187821 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84444&oldid=84442 5* 03VilgotanL 5* (+67) 10add my newest 5 languages < 1623603589 870360 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, turing machines aren't a typed lambda calculi - so you cannot apply Curry-Howard here > 1623603637 827238 PRIVMSG #esolangs : yeah, I get that, but typed lambda calculi are of course in some sense equivalent to turing machines, just wondering if it makes sense theoretically < 1623603654 749922 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :a typed lambda calculus must not be turing equivalent > 1623603657 62771 PRIVMSG #esolangs : or rather, lambda calculi in general are in some sense equivalent to turing machines > 1623603659 252996 PRIVMSG #esolangs : yeah < 1623603670 352990 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :the strong normalization condition says that every algorithm terminates in a finite number of steps > 1623603671 288019 PRIVMSG #esolangs : I understand that simply typed lambda calculus is not tc > 1623603679 411533 PRIVMSG #esolangs : right < 1623603683 9095 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :neither is dependently typed, like Coq for example < 1623603697 602591 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is what enables a consistency proof to be done < 1623603702 680016 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: Note that Curry-Howard-Lambek still applies, and typed lambda calculi each give a Cartesian closed category for a model, where we can try to apply Lawvere's fixed-point theorem. < 1623603763 583001 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :But yeah, generally when it *does* apply, there's enough data for a Turing category, where there's an object representing all of the untyped terms. < 1623603778 964190 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623603811 685755 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :the untyped lambda calculus is turing equivalent, but it doesn't have types that you can interpret as logical formulae - so no Curry-Howard bridge there < 1623603815 811470 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's nice tables at https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/computational+trilogy which are recently redone and looking nice. > 1623603897 214339 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Okay, so, another related question, when Godel talks about incompleteness, is this in some sense equivalent to sub tc? Re: what Corbin was mentioning. < 1623603927 569831 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Turing showed that there's a computer program which, if given a program that could solve Halting, creates a contradiction. > 1623603994 668730 PRIVMSG #esolangs : That is my understanding of how the halting problem is proven to be uncomputable < 1623603997 386613 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Let "Truth" be the question of whether a formula in arithmetic is true. Gödel showed that there's a proof which, if given a proof that could solve Truth, creates a contradiction. < 1623604029 354002 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Technically Tarski showed this, and similarly we can't mention Turing without the far-more-useful Rice's Theorem; there's too many people to remember~) > 1623604050 475464 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Of course, we all stand on the shoulders of history :) < 1623604130 296717 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :What is the connection between Tarski's undefinability of truth and Godels incompleteness? < 1623604150 228804 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :> The undefinability theorem is conventionally attributed to Alfred Tarski. Gödel also discovered the undefinability theorem in 1930, while proving his incompleteness theorems published in 1931, and well before the 1933 publication of Tarski's work < 1623604151 968897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : :1:124: error: parse error on input ‘in’ < 1623604153 790694 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh that is funny I didn't know that < 1623604326 139410 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesn't seem to imply godels incompleteness < 1623604530 473006 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :BTW, https://www.logicmatters.net/resources/pdfs/godelbook/GodelBookLM.pdf is quite good, for anybody wanting to understand all that Gödelian stuff. I had to take it slow, because the details are extremely nuanced. < 1623604590 858547 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623604639 389831 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-37-63.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1623604695 240610 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you just want to see how category theorists might apply Lawvere's work to simplify thinking about all of this, then https://arxiv.org/pdf/math/0305282.pdf is so good. < 1623605276 971289 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1623605357 199895 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84445&oldid=84417 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+47) 10Clarifications and fixes about the number system, plus other polishing < 1623605495 937134 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://arxiv.org/pdf/math/0305282.pdf <- this is really cool! > 1623605726 430632 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84446&oldid=84406 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+124) 10Forgot one small part of if command. < 1623605781 760020 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :The Lob's Paradox one is a bit jarring < 1623606151 481975 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623606876 963992 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1623606933 875039 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84447&oldid=84446 5* 03Plasmath 5* (-3) 10Made another mistake in the description. > 1623607516 849710 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84448&oldid=84447 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+16) 10I think I finally worded this in a good way. > 1623607892 627971 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Corbin: I'm thinking more about my comments on the distinction between computer science and mathematics. Most of my experience is as a software engineer. My education is in math, but I don't know a lot about proof theory. The thing I noticed is that, AFAIK, a program which does not halt corresponds to a proof of a contradiction in mathematics by > 1623607893 126663 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Curry-Howard. In programming, we use languages that permit infinite loops, but in mathematics we don't use axiom systems that allow proving contradictions. > 1623607922 611676 PRIVMSG #esolangs : On the surface, this makes sense because in classical logic if we permit a contradiction as a theorem, then everything entails. But in paraconsistent logics this is not true. > 1623607943 100509 PRIVMSG #esolangs : As paraconsistent logics explicitly reject the principle of explosion. > 1623608012 814958 PRIVMSG #esolangs : So, why don't mathematicians use paraconsistent logics to permit a small class of contradictions as theorems but software engineers use languages that permit infinite loops? > 1623608029 888777 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84449&oldid=84448 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+31) 10Forgot yet another thing about this command. This is it though. I've made sure. > 1623608029 975112 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Does this make sense, or am I way off? > 1623608183 814547 PRIVMSG #esolangs : I recognize that what I'm proposing is a totally reformulation of how math is done, but just wondering in the spirit of intellectual inquiry < 1623608249 469713 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure, and the philosophy of why logic is even a good idea is historically important. Frege and Quine had strong but inscrutable opinions on this sort of thing. < 1623608334 706060 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :forbidding infinite loops would need you to solve the halting problem, doesn't it? > 1623608335 217921 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Meta Memes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84450&oldid=72253 5* 03Caenbe 5* (+9) 10Stubbify > 1623608342 888036 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Okay, glad I'm making sense. I recently learned about paraconsistent logics and dialetheism and immediately sensed a correlation between what those philosophies are advocating and what I do as a software engineer. < 1623608345 420326 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesn't sound like an easy task for me > 1623608356 615340 PRIVMSG #esolangs : myname: nah, just make your language sub turing < 1623608365 273338 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :There is an old question: Shouldn't contradictions be relevant to the proofs which use them? If I prove that the sky is simultaneously blue and not-blue, does that make 1=2? If so, *how*? > 1623608379 124392 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Godencode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84451&oldid=84449 5* 03Plasmath 5* (+0) 10My documentation was hard to read. < 1623608380 285333 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :great, have a language that probably cannot do the task you are trying to solve < 1623608430 773860 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, sure. Note that a proper dialethist cannot refute a trivialist, who claims that all things are true. In particular, a dialethist cannot prove to them that anything is false; the law of non-contradiction is a missing logical lever they'd need. < 1623608454 592886 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1623608483 312529 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Corbin: Yeah, of course. There are definitely philosophical issues with dialetheism too, I just noticed that philosophically it was closer to what I was doing than classic logic was. < 1623608484 211227 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :myname: Most GPU programs are not Turing-complete. Instead, a Turing-complete CPU program repeatedly takes bounded steps by submitting bounded programs to the GPU. < 1623608529 735245 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, you can have arbitrary many sub-tc sub-tasks, but you want to have a tc system at some point or another > 1623608532 193960 PRIVMSG #esolangs : i.e. by using a language that allows for infinite loops I'm implicity rejecting non-contradiction < 1623608554 62122 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :orbitaldecay72: I'm looking for a good reference, but a simple slogan is "there's no type of non-halting programs", along myname's lines. This means that it's not possible to use Curry-Howard to try to construct a family of usable contraditions. < 1623608615 203718 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, at least in terms of semantics, an infinite loop is considered to have no semantical meaning. it's just one of the points where theory and practice diverge < 1623608616 646730 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :In general, computers are constructive and effective, so while we don't have LEM or Choice, we do still have intuitionistic type theory, which is plenty powerful. > 1623608617 664490 PRIVMSG #esolangs : this is where I don't know enough about formal type theory to recognize what is a limitation of classical logic, and what is a limitation of type theory < 1623608627 938824 :myname!~myname@2001:41d0:1:766f::1 PRIVMSG #esolangs :imperative programming makes things hard < 1623608660 804933 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :orbitaldecay72: Lucky 10000: https://www.ams.org/journals/bull/2017-54-03/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4.pdf > 1623608746 782376 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Corbin: thanks! < 1623608780 122620 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ha, don't thank me yet. It took me a while to personally overcome old beliefs about maths and accept topos theory as a reasonable way to get things done. > 1623608823 667285 PRIVMSG #esolangs : My thinking is this. We can definitely construct a Hilbert style axiom system that allows us to prove a contradiction (we have to try hard to avoid this). If type systems are basically equivalent to these, then why can't we construct a type system in which a non-normalizing term is well typed? > 1623608832 303152 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Corbin: I'm always trying to overcome old beliefs :) > 1623608881 166344 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Again, I'm way out of my depth here. Just trying to develop some sort of intuition for the topic. < 1623608953 425213 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :No worries. The answer I'd choose to keep going with Curry-Howard-Lambek, and do some category theory. We usually say that proofs of contradiction are rare because they can be shown to be categorically equivalent. < 1623609006 576714 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Categorically, an arrow into the initial object can only come from another initial object, and they're isomorphic. Logically, a proof of contradiction can only come from another contradiction, and they're equivalent. > 1623609017 328964 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Cool. I'll follow up with the category theory. Whenever I start barking about these questions I almost universally hear, "See category theory". Unfortunately I haven't done that yet, so I suppose I should! < 1623609042 6385 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623609044 836782 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Constructively, recally that a proof of contradiction ~P is literally something like "P -> false". Being able to logically entail falsity is the ur-contradiction.) > 1623609076 579448 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Corbin: But doesn't this all presuppose classical logic? i.e. what if we are using a logic in which contradiction doesn't entail everything? > 1623609086 453177 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Or am I missing the point? < 1623609114 951302 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Category theory's just so much neater for logic. Like, take *any* formal logic with rewrite rules. There's a category whose objects are equivalence classes of terms, and whose arrows embody the rewrite rules. > 1623609127 822224 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:GreenThePear14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84452 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (+702) 10Created > 1623609136 846260 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Got it. Alright, next stop category theory :) > 1623609143 378401 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Thanks so much for your help. I really appreciate it. < 1623609215 299966 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :This all presupposes some constructive logic, but not classical logic. That's the key change in POV. And yes, it's possible to build interesting paraconsistent models, and also to require relevance for contradictions, but we don't necessarily know how to implement those in computers. < 1623609243 128287 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :No worries. Sorry for dumping so much information onto you; hopefully it makes a little sense. Bauer's paper is really eye-opening on its own. > 1623609485 336716 PRIVMSG #esolangs : The information is great. I come here whenever I have a question that I'm having trouble answering because invariably I get a ton of information dumped on me haha < 1623609881 33024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen < 1623609890 112288 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :if categories are great why aren't there 2-categories? < 1623609960 222039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: there are < 1623610056 812732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/ (note: i'm not really a follower but i've heard about it) < 1623610073 609760 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs ::O > 1623610095 724884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07What's the dog doin?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84453&oldid=84445 5* 03GreenThePear 5* (-4) 10/* Examples */ > 1623610210 344723 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Python is Magic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=84454 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (+6954) 10Created page with "Python is Magic is a very restricted version of Python 3. On Python is Magic, only magic functions can be used. ==Warm-up== This is a valid Python is Magic code: __name__.__..." < 1623610224 971689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_category_theory might be more elucidating. (i haven't read that either.) < 1623610235 182412 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :If cats are so great why aren't there 2-cats? < 1623610252 454672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i was about to mention shachaf, i think he knows a lot more about it than i < 1623610278 505749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you can keep him from doing feline puns > 1623610301 752164 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Gilbert18914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84455&oldid=81403 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (-61) 10 < 1623610302 420045 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.reddit.com/r/confusing_perspective/comments/c95247/siamese_twins_cats/ here is a 2-cat < 1623610683 275512 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :As a warmup, my housecat was yowling all last night. We got a little cat opera'd. < 1623610715 299166 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I still like "sets are 0-categories"; all of the structure of set theory is like a "decategorified" version of category theory. < 1623610857 862518 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Remember, booleans are just -1-categories. < 1623610901 294371 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :O_O < 1623610906 358926 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :is this true? < 1623610946 447358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION wonders too < 1623610949 839016 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :The "just" bit? < 1623610980 811255 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :See https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/negative+thinking < 1623610985 824858 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :one conversation about image processing and one about formal logic. I don't contribute much today, but I'm glad the channel is back to its old weird self < 1623610998 298300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :it slightly reminds me that certain definitions of dimension consider the empty set -1-dimensional < 1623611030 190284 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623611056 887840 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which definitions? < 1623611102 960348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'd have to look that up < 1623611191 336191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension#Topological_spaces starts with the lebesgue covering dimension which is an example < 1623611335 191695 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Aha. < 1623611388 376186 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas, thanks! < 1623611402 154661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :seems to be true for the inductive ones too > 1623613977 756841 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Emoji-gramming14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84456&oldid=83822 5* 03Qwertyu63 5* (+563) 10/* Sign checking */ < 1623613978 45416 :sech1ptheythem[m!~sech1ppri@2001:470:69fc:105::2b26 JOIN #esolangs * :@sech1p:privacytools.io < 1623614339 113287 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the weird thing is, half of the nicks I don't even recognize from earlier, and I wonder if people just took the opportunity at the network switch to choose new nicks and I'm so stupid as to not recognize them after that, but that probably isn't the case < 1623614392 548908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :this channel does somehow indeed manage to pull in new weird people, even though I have no idea how they find their way here because we don't advertise ourselves very much and I find it hard to find my way into these kinds of communities < 1623614417 992990 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I have all sorts of personal problems and sometimes you help but sometimes you cause me to stay up at night when I really shoulnd't, not that I'm blaming you, just saying < 1623614448 852447 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the sad part is when that happens and I know that the other people who I'm talking to are Europeans and have a messed up sleep cycle hurting them too < 1623614455 971222 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN #esolangs imode :imode < 1623614480 385144 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the "booleans are just -1-categories" thing sounds somehow wrong though < 1623614508 129774 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or at least not true in the literal sense but perhaps there's some interesting enough analogy there that might work even if not in the literal sense < 1623614516 90955 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas, i used to be rain1 < 1623614524 270819 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh! < 1623614534 418079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that explains part of it < 1623614545 664012 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I knwo that moony renamed himself to, um, let me consult NAMES < 1623614599 987350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: i know at least keegan took that opportunity too < 1623614650 6571 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and perhaps some old people who left #esoteric for years but stayed on freenode, they took this oppurtunity to just CHECK on which old channels move there because they wanted to know just in case, and joined, and got stuck < 1623614659 928637 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because that's certainly something I'd do with other channels < 1623614691 158862 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, moony took a short nick and I think I'll recognize him if he returns under that < 1623614700 184450 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had to change my nickname to velik < 1623614708 562494 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :and rename bot to nakilon < 1623614728 133791 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what? "had to" but renamed the bot to the old name? < 1623614758 57600 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just realised that I had to < 1623614758 906946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(well he's called "moon" now, but some people switch between nicks) < 1623614763 683167 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, that thing < 1623614764 221471 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :to confuse b_jonas < 1623614792 788429 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, that makes more sense even though I never felt the need, perhaps because I feel lucky for choosing b_jonas because it's a better name than I knew when I came up with it < 1623614798 712906 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i thought moon had always been switching nicks < 1623614805 254352 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I still don't know who's the pythondebugshell < 1623614806 70771 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: yeah < 1623614809 958764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :but usualy not very far < 1623614816 574974 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's why I recognize him more easily < 1623614838 862695 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I still don't know who Corbin is, and of course sometimes wonder about people who I do recall but don't seem to come in anymore < 1623614864 125122 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :although... there is a certain person who used to come in and I think used to ask about formal logic... I wonder < 1623614867 893688 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know who Corbin is :> < 1623614899 297818 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, probably no, because I think they're from another continent < 1623614907 690654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION looks quizzically at Corbin  < 1623614909 951403 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :orbitaldecay72 is the one who had that amazing stuff about bitfuck right? < 1623614923 364481 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :"I have all sorts of personal problems" -- heh, I'm a meter away from losing a flat and being kicked out of the country, and it makes me have bad dreams every night now < 1623614937 460669 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :omg that sounds horrible and stressful D: < 1623614945 987095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it does, yes < 1623615031 268634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :ouch < 1623615050 857895 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, don't take this the wrong way, but hearing that from other people also makes it seem like this is back to good old #esoteric, because they're willing to share more than I do < 1623615069 703243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :about their problems, that is, not that I'm too careful about letting private details on < 1623615279 164095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think that one terrible time when I was in a psychiatric hospital in 2018, the one I don't talk about often, part of what helped me shrug some of it off (besides my parents' care and being lucky about which doctor happened to do urgent care that night) was that I recalled that at least two different people on #esoteric told me earlier about when they were in psychiatric hospital, and I wasn't < 1623615285 191534 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :thinking they were in great state, but they survived being in a hospital, one even for an extended time and IRCing from there, and didn't seem to be completely broken even months after, < 1623615305 91340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :plus similar stories from other weird parts of the internet < 1623615344 983792 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :although it also worked because at least I did learn what I really should pay attention to in order to not get back there again < 1623615395 223727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just rarely feel stupid enough to discuss it in logged and googleable parts of the internet, especially as I know my nick isn't all that secret < 1623615481 223857 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it would have been wiser to use a disposable alternate nick, if not now, at least that one time when I posted about it to a forum < 1623615575 844782 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :woah, there are at least three people here who were in psychiatric hospitals? < 1623615627 934349 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do miss some of the people who used to come here < 1623615734 463383 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would probably not mind to get stuck in anywhere as long as there are some family members or friends to take care of your home, bills, hypothetical cat, etc. < 1623615751 732842 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol, hypothetical cat < 1623616029 917571 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623616319 908407 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: yes < 1623616334 294168 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least if you count people who used to be here at some point but might not visit now < 1623616444 353093 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wasn't *stuck*. it was a short time, I knew I'd get out soon, that's what the doctor said to me and she was right, and once she even allowed me to temporarily leave for a few hours in what she said was against the hospital's rules (not that I have illusions about those rules consistently being kept) because my family promised to bring me back < 1623616476 555486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's the at least one other user, the one who IRCed from the hospital, regularly, who was stuck < 1623616530 224605 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't pretend that I'm not stuck with a psychiatric condition that I'd have to be careful with for my whole life even if I managed to get my life mostly normal, but I was not stuck in the hospital < 1623617941 890662 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also hi future boss, who will probably find this months or years from now when searching for my name, I know you're listening and want to find out what I'm hiding by looking on the internet and asking previous employers' opinions, and you're going to pay me less money if you don't just reject me completely, but I think I wouldn't want to work in a company that has managers less diligent than that, I < 1623617947 864600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :couldn't trust that they could keep themselves in the business < 1623618277 707045 :sech1ptheythem[m!~sech1ppri@2001:470:69fc:105::2b26 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1623618279 110143 :jryans!~jryansmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1d QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1623618354 363681 :jryans!~jryansmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1d JOIN #esolangs * :@jryans:matrix.org < 1623618391 278942 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1623618396 42909 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1623618401 834800 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1623618401 923110 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.234.138 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv < 1623618411 194941 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1623618442 209663 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1623618491 987466 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com JOIN #esolangs * :citrons < 1623618524 26449 :Trieste_!T@user/pilgrim JOIN #esolangs pilgrim :T < 1623618545 59592 :moon5!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN #esolangs moony :mooooony < 1623618588 81850 :moon!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Killed (copper.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)) < 1623618588 171150 :moon5!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :moon < 1623618744 502759 :sech1ptheythem[m!~sech1ppri@2001:470:69fc:105::2b26 JOIN #esolangs * :@sech1p:privacytools.io < 1623618745 100045 :int-e_!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN #esolangs int-e :Bertram < 1623618769 208798 :Trieste!T@user/pilgrim QUIT :Quit: Be well! < 1623618886 857702 :zegalch!~zegalch@178.128.75.133 QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds) < 1623618887 670516 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1623618887 933972 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1623618898 909602 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1623618911 894779 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1623618953 904910 :zegalch!~zegalch@178.128.75.133 JOIN #esolangs zegalch :The Lounge User < 1623619064 701375 :moon2!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN #esolangs moony :mooooony < 1623619100 998680 :moon!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Killed (iridium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)) < 1623619100 998740 :moon2!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony NICK :moon < 1623619149 188958 :Trieste!T@user/pilgrim JOIN #esolangs pilgrim :T < 1623619288 153740 :citrons_!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com JOIN #esolangs * :citrons < 1623619324 398064 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1623619324 469399 :integral!sid296274@user/integral QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1623619343 626740 :ski!~ski@ed-3358-10.studat.chalmers.se JOIN #esolangs * :Stefan Ljungstrand < 1623619367 143248 :imode!~imode@user/imode NICK :FuckAndrewLee < 1623619382 715441 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1623619398 623465 :perlbot_!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1623619414 336620 :integral!sid296274@user/integral JOIN #esolangs integral :bsmith < 1623619491 166728 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1623619491 255026 :yuu!sid267332@id-267332.charlton.irccloud.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1623619493 414525 :Trieste_!T@user/pilgrim QUIT :*.net *.split < 1623619493 551285 :citrons!~citrons@alt.mondecitronne.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1623619494 253042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :*.net *.split < 1623619494 332591 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1623619494 507817 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1623619503 110913 :perlbot_!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot NICK :perlbot < 1623619532 7069 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1623619549 173753 :V!~v@anomalous.eu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1623619588 926706 :V!~v@anomalous.eu JOIN #esolangs V :Wie? < 1623619600 685808 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN #esolangs lifthrasiir :Kang Seonghoon < 1623619621 160797 :yuu!sid267332@id-267332.charlton.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs * :yuu < 1623619658 688512 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi JOIN #esolangs HackEso :HackEso < 1623619672 718069 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623619709 403910 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Happy pigeon appreciation day! < 1623619927 82520 :FuckAndrewLee!~imode@user/imode NICK :rusted-root < 1623620139 668550 :aarchi!sid486183@id-486183.highgate.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does anyone by chance have a copy of the HaPyLi compiler? It's a Haskell/Python/Lisp-like language that compiles to Whitespace. < 1623620201 172959 :aarchi!sid486183@id-486183.highgate.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :The website went offline around 2012 and it wasn't completely archived on the Internet Archive. < 1623620203 945622 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1623620661 336203 :rusted-root!~imode@user/imode NICK :imode < 1623620664 711161 :freon!~freon@c-73-210-167-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1623621412 582059 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :ACTION counts herself very glad nobody else wants pikhq < 1623621456 549763 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: yeah, i miss some people who used to be here too. still in touch with some though i don't talk with them much; also still frequently in touch with others < 1623621471 537310 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh that's nice < 1623621503 556128 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :and re: psych hospital. glad i've never been in one but fuck i've been close < 1623621603 197621 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :turns out being into absolutely weird programming languages has a high overlap with just being weird as a person in one of a few different ways > 1623621713 148230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84457&oldid=84358 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+94) 10The {edit} macro in Free Hero Mesh < 1623622285 258766 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :i mean i am very much a weird person so :p < 1623622960 946886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :pikhq: yes, but how do so many of those kinds of people actually find their way here, that's what I don't understand < 1623623053 939781 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1623623086 393045 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't understand that even after I just personally recommended this channel to someone and they came here < 1623623109 325958 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-91.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because how did I find them in first place < 1623623117 790820 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you're that sort of weird you're gonna actively seek it out < 1623623219 136015 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't have a copy of the HaPyLi > 1623623521 976409 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Hjoker4 5* 10New user account < 1623623760 525272 :imode!~imode@user/imode NICK :ch0de < 1623624553 796772 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Do you like the picture editor of Free Hero Mesh? < 1623624992 783896 :salpynx!~salpynx@121.73.84.248 JOIN #esolangs salpynx :[https://kiwiirc.com] salpynx < 1623625599 54303 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1623625662 217899 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Will they add the Quasijarus compression format into newer versions of GNU/Linux and/or non-Quasijarus BSD? < 1623625718 721296 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 JOIN #esolangs user3456 :user3456 > 1623626091 749003 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84458&oldid=84356 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+211) 10 < 1623626283 865263 :sknebel!~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you ever dig into esolangs even a bit and want to talk to people into them this channel is hard to not find. the esolangs wiki is like the resource referenced everywhere after all < 1623626710 540654 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep < 1623626788 738914 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :hence how i found it when i was, like, 15 < 1623626955 361872 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: tech_exorcist > 1623627642 118137 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84459&oldid=84458 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+99) 10 > 1623628021 427504 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07VBF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84460&oldid=84440 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+53) 10/* Implementations */ Cats > 1623628071 510144 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Among Us14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84461&oldid=84459 5* 03Zero player rodent 5* (+149) 10 > 1623628104 440371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GotoFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84462&oldid=83713 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+78) 10/* Implementations */ Cats, see also > 1623628121 208418 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Jumplang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=84463&oldid=74090 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+15) 10/* See also */ See also. > 1623628405 375752 PRIVMSG #esolangs : riv: yep! I was playing around with bitfuck a few years ago. > 1623628437 427120 PRIVMSG #esolangs : specifically messing around with the reversible variant, which permits some interesting minimizations