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01:38:27 <int-e> hmm https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#12x10t1dh#215082649470581 felt difficult (for the type)
01:44:56 <nakilon> solving on desktop feels so different from mobile
01:45:09 <nakilon> where you just tap again, not "right click"
01:45:16 <nakilon> or "two fingers" on trackpad
01:49:26 <esolangs> [[Position]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86686 * WreckingGames * (+1333) Created page with "[[Position]] is a stack-based esolang created by [[User:WreckingGames|WreckingGames]], where almost every important command changes depending on its position in the code.  ==..."
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02:09:56 <nakilon> done
02:22:47 <oerjan> also done, assuming you're talking about int-e's game
02:23:25 <oerjan> no big problems, but there was a point where i needed several countings of crossings around a region one after the other
02:48:22 <int-e> tbf I wouldn't expect any *big* problems from any of these puzzles
02:56:34 <oerjan> for that, we'd need tatham to start using NP-completeness to translate factoring problems :)
02:57:02 <oerjan> although those puzzles would probably look unnatural
02:58:40 <oerjan> i suppose one might try to develop an NP reduction that created natural looking ones
03:27:39 <nakilon> alright, I'll get the seed from my phone where it sits for probably 2-3 years already
03:28:39 <nakilon> I'm rarely in trips to continue solving it but I suppose you won't say there is no  *big* problems in it )
03:35:50 <nakilon> https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#10x10t7dh#363752026185553
03:40:00 <int-e> that's kind of big though
03:44:59 <nakilon> yeah, probably 2 times bigger area, it's not default
03:51:49 <oerjan> whee
03:51:59 <oerjan> (lessee)
04:26:21 <oerjan> ok i do feel a bit stalled for the moment
04:54:30 <Melvar> Solved.
04:55:21 <Melvar> I did get stuck for a while a few times.
04:55:31 <nakilon> _Oo
04:56:47 <oerjan> darn
04:57:12 <oerjan> i was stuck until a moment ago, then i found something, but i'm not sure it leads to much more
05:23:08 <riv> hi!
05:34:44 <nakilon> hi
05:38:26 <riv> https://krazydad.com/play/area51/ these hybrid puzzles are cool
05:53:30 <myname> nice
05:53:33 <nakilon> idk how Melvar did it in 80 min, I started over and I'm far below 50$
05:53:36 <myname> i want that as an app
05:56:53 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86687&oldid=86392 * KakkoiiChris * (-513) Simplified Hello World example
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06:13:16 <Melvar> I think I only started after oerjan said they felt stalled.
06:13:48 <Melvar> Idk might have been hyperfocus might have been luck.
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06:21:55 <nakilon> maybe you clicked another link? ..D
06:24:02 <Melvar> My browser’s address bar definitely contains the one from six posts above my “Solved.”.
06:25:17 * oerjan still stalled but took a break
06:25:45 <oerjan> (still taking a break)
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08:03:51 <nakilon> I'm stuck
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09:31:20 <esolangs> [[MCBlocks]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86688&oldid=86683 * Dominicentek * (+65) 
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12:05:25 <esolangs> [[LCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86689 * Nitrogen Dioxide * (+2255) Created page with "{{stub}} '''LCode''' (aka LoserCode) is a "coding language" made by [[User:Nitrogen_Dioxide]] as a joke. The "official" interpreter is made in C#.  The interpreter accepts any..."
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13:51:11 <int-e> Well.. one power outage later it's solved. I did have to restart a couple of times because of mistakes though :-/
13:51:33 <int-e> (I slept a bit, too)
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14:26:37 <int-e> fungot: Which loopy type are you? Left (likes to prove uniqueness) or right (exploits uniqueness)? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/uloopy.png
14:26:37 <fungot> int-e: using sisc you can customize on it a bit more difficult, but possible. have you tried noctis? http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ main_page
14:35:26 <int-e> And here's an actual (constructed) puzzle that contains this pattern: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#4x4t0:2b1c0b3d3
14:36:14 <int-e> Though it's obviously not a hard one :)
14:38:23 <Taneb> int-e: I feel there's a third category, "does not care about uniqueness, just wants to find any solution"
14:38:41 <Taneb> But I don't know if they differ from the exploits uniqueness category in practice
14:39:07 <Taneb> Maybe they're more willing to make guesses
14:39:20 <int-e> Oh it can be fit into a 3x3 puzzle: https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#3x3t0:2a1b1b3
14:40:03 <int-e> Taneb: Yeah I guess the best solvers are actually good at quick forced conclusions *and* at fixing mistakes
14:40:18 <int-e> s/best/fastest/
14:41:19 <int-e> I usually start over when I find a mistake unless it was a very recent one (so I can pinpoint where I went wrong, exactly)
14:43:20 <Taneb> I try to maintain very clean undo history (not easy on a small touch screen) and then if I find a mistake I try to find it
14:43:26 <Taneb> Although sometimes I just restart
14:45:31 <int-e> (That level encoding is kind of dual to PEN: PEN does RLE with digits, and uses letters for the occupied squares; this format does RLE with letters and uses digits for the occupied squares...)
14:45:35 <int-e> FEN
14:50:18 <esolangs> [[Maybebat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86690 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+328) Created page with "maybebat - esolang by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] in batch and it is Turing Complete! ==Examples== ===[[Hello, World!]]===  print[maybe];hello, world!  wait[button]  ==Exterenal..."
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14:52:43 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86691&oldid=86142 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+26) 
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16:59:51 <fizzie> I think I wouldn't mind a feature in the puzzle interface that can add (labeled?) snapshots, just because sometimes it's easier to think through consequences if you can click to visualize them. But I'm always afraid I would forget how far back to unroll if I do that.
17:00:47 <riv> yes labelled snapshots would be excellent
17:00:59 <fizzie> What I've been doing instead is, add something that's obviously wrong (i.e., turns red) in some other corner of the puzzle, then do the speculative clicking, and then when it's time to roll back just click on undo enough to make the red thing go away.
17:19:35 <Melvar> int-e: This type: https://i.imgur.com/eXhIM7U.png
17:51:33 <int-e> Melvar: ah, right
17:51:53 <Corbin> Ugh, I need to implement e-graphs again. Not sure if I want to use OCaml or jq.
17:54:06 <int-e> Melvar: fixed :)
17:54:34 <Corbin> jq is much better at manipulating untyped string-tagged data, but OCaml would make it easier to implement the union-find data structure.
17:54:50 <Corbin> Has anybody else done the e-graph adventure? It's hard.
18:04:03 <int-e> Hmm, silly puzzle that the solver can't solve ;-) https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/loopy.html#3x3t0:0a0c0a0
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20:12:49 <nakilon> in-built solver?
20:12:58 <nakilon> or your solver
20:13:19 <nakilon> nvm, pressed the button
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21:52:56 <esolangs> [[Betaload]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86692&oldid=57118 * Challenger5 * (+3) fix implementation link
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23:08:31 <oren> interesting type problem: is there a programming language in which, for a type B and a generic type A<T>, A<any> is a supertype of A<B>
23:08:53 <oren> or in which it can be stated that that is the case?
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23:27:41 <int-e> If A is a functor then you can lift the injection map T -> any to A<T> -> A<any>. So that is the kind of structure you need...
23:35:16 <b_jonas> oren: uh, I think java and maybe rust has at least some basic conception of which parametrized types have covariant or contravariant type argument
23:35:51 <b_jonas> but I'm not sure what you mean by `any` in that
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23:46:16 <nakilon> these should banned from unicode https://i.imgur.com/1H6Njay.png