< 1627523006 958934 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :> PostScript < 1627523008 482420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : error: Data constructor not in scope: PostScript < 1627523020 769234 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :there should be GetScript and PutScript < 1627523031 950874 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :and HeadScript < 1627523149 932414 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :and DeleteScript < 1627523605 221428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen < 1627523652 734860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :whee! finally solved that dread loopy puzzle! < 1627523779 811425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs : anyone remember this game: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/2k.png <-- yep! < 1627523791 838647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :the end of that loopy puzzle was a bit fascinating. < 1627523808 921192 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yay < 1627523853 137013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :for a long time i'd only solved the bottom left completely, but there were many other separate regions where i gradually got information, but which seemed to stay in superposition of 2 or 3 options :) < 1627523861 822252 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :did it go clockwise starting in the top right? < 1627523862 483218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :er, *bottom right < 1627523876 84230 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1627523885 475164 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm. that's a no, I guess < 1627523900 765114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was nakilon's puzzle in case that's not clear < 1627523931 782975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's what I thought. < 1627523961 315846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, there was this spot i'd noticed in the middle right (and mentioned yesterday) which had a plausible uniqueness exploitation almost like the one you linked < 1627523974 781777 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjannow you can safely check the screenshots ) < 1627524001 816486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :and finally, i got to the point where a counting argument connected that to something else in the upper right < 1627524036 370658 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :do you mean the horizontal line section that could be joined to bottom and top only once? < 1627524058 957607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :so i chased it across the upper right until it reached the large near-island in the upper left < 1627524072 550272 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought about it and that's why I asked the question about do puzzles have to have a single solution, but then I've found something elsewhere in the bottom right and it solved the thing without the exploit < 1627524126 960671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :which showed how that island connected to the rest. and then i traced that information from both connection points - until i found a trivial contradiction near the middle left border < 1627524216 6097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :and once that trivial contradiction had been used, the _entire board unraveled with only simple rules_ < 1627524234 821016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it was, as usual, something simple i had missed for a long time < 1627524320 466130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the lower left took a little longer to unravel than the rest, but only because the board was zoomed so large i couldn't see all the large loop parts instantly) < 1627524412 664297 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :on the lower left I did several mistakes and had to backtrace a lot, but the solution was somewhere in the very middle, where when you enable one line it would make the cycle of 3 and once you disable it it starts solving down and then left < 1627524437 369398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: it was sort of horizontal section with a diamond between, if that's what you mean < 1627524457 359602 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan it was like 4 horizontal lines connected < 1627524465 248350 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :to the right from center and maybe 1 up < 1627524512 667614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :argh let me see if i can find it without backtracking everything < 1627524553 957357 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :this https://i.imgur.com/x9phtJ7.png < 1627524665 605840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, not that < 1627524701 958191 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok then ..D < 1627524750 625015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was further down and to the right < 1627524781 346888 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :once in the upper right I used to solve a portion of trying both enable and disable one line < 1627524800 521702 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :then I screenshoted both results and applied what was common < 1627524808 581957 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably it helped < 1627524824 825460 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :*by trying < 1627524874 381267 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :if I was making an AI I would use this trick < 1627524892 401319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i did try similar things (without screenshotting) < 1627524908 518455 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it kind of makes possible to solve further moves before solving the current one < 1627525047 808163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :it wasn't exactly horizontal, now i've looked at it < 1627525115 672631 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I now wonder if the trick could be applied to other things I was solving earlier < 1627525307 701458 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel like it should be somewhere on this wiki but the closest I've found right now is https://www.chessprogramming.org/Killer_Heuristic < 1627525317 639538 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :though in chess the order matters < 1627525319 185796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok your screenshots were indeed not very spoilery :P < 1627525340 503659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :the last one looked a bit similar to my endgame < 1627525351 863285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :with bottom left remaining < 1627525807 727521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs : i once wrote a postscript thing to make a certain fractal <-- hm i vaguely recall doing mandelbrot in postscript, on an actual printer. but it was only black and white and i think it was dog slow. > 1627525818 616902 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86707&oldid=86704 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+15700) 10/* brainfuck */ Added syntax highlighting < 1627525845 368710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :although i might be misremembering whether i actually wrote the program myself < 1627525910 908112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :if i did, it was the most interesting postscript program i wrote directly > 1627525942 51007 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86708&oldid=86707 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+60) 10/* Links */ Added GitHub repository link < 1627525976 882856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i suppose mandelbrot is a bad fractal to choose if you want to use postscript's rendering strengths :P > 1627526174 39872 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86709&oldid=86708 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+126) 10/* brainfuck */ Added implementation note to top < 1627527182 821828 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627527199 817384 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627527454 265003 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627527473 990528 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627527783 493037 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627527799 904569 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf > 1627527888 488238 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86710&oldid=86438 5* 03Spargle 5* (+194) 10/* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */ < 1627528054 267794 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627528071 817791 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627531491 689336 :pikhq!sid394595@user/pikhq PRIVMSG #esolangs :sounds like a fun challenge though > 1627533035 622969 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86711&oldid=86709 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+8147) 10/* About */ Elaborated on the description of Minim, and added a brief history of the language's syntax > 1627533106 490941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86712&oldid=86711 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (-12) 10/* History */ Removed one layer of nesting from the History section > 1627533175 650497 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86713&oldid=86712 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+24) 10/* History */ Added separators between each version > 1627533540 582870 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86714&oldid=85173 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+139) 10/* Normal implementations */ Added link to Minim implementation example program > 1627533785 320472 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86715&oldid=86569 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+3467) 10/* Minim */ Added syntax highlighting > 1627534076 127733 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86716&oldid=86715 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+0) 10/* Implementations */ Fixed alphabetical ordering of Minim > 1627534230 591890 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86717&oldid=86716 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (-1288) 10/* Minim */ Removed line numbers and header comment < 1627537853 145052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1627538502 527276 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.charlton.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs * :Siddharth Gautam < 1627538515 573848 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.charlton.irccloud.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627538541 724621 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.charlton.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam < 1627539143 709547 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1627539261 740350 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1627539598 822642 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1627539634 781615 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1627539672 861347 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1627541008 401078 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Backrooms14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86718 5* 03Ch44d 5* (+19399) 10Add backrooms < 1627541330 295339 :spruit11_!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:91b8:870a:fb3:8344 JOIN #esolangs * :anon < 1627541383 608542 :spruit11_!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:91b8:870a:fb3:8344 QUIT :Client Quit < 1627541443 293404 :spruit11_!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:91b8:870a:fb3:8344 JOIN #esolangs * :anon < 1627541471 403163 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:c892:977a:b4bf:318c QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1627541484 511050 :spruit11_!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:91b8:870a:fb3:8344 QUIT :Client Quit < 1627541503 339253 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:91b8:870a:fb3:8344 JOIN #esolangs * :anon < 1627543115 732284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1627543178 981300 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:MinimLogo.png10]]" > 1627543569 740733 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Backrooms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86720&oldid=86718 5* 03Ch44d 5* (+171) 10fix formatting problems and add more rule info. > 1627543931 965565 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86721&oldid=86713 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+380) 10Added logo and info box to top > 1627544226 341303 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86722&oldid=86721 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+7) 10Moved infobox and logo < 1627544613 953895 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there anything like a CLI that would find the most common substrings? like some debug info for compression algorithms < 1627544650 560282 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would apply it to the problem I want to solve -- finding the meaningful substrings in an array of strings < 1627544684 805823 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :such as... #haskell #haskell_de #learnhaskell should tell me that "there is probably a word 'haskell'" < 1627544721 173045 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's important to not say that "haske is probably a word" < 1627544748 722620 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :no matter that this substring is even more common, it's not a full word < 1627544806 38501 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've coded some thing, ran it for an hour or two and then saw the results aren't good; I'm missing something < 1627544868 742351 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :for example, even if there are haskell_es and haskell_en it should not be confused to think that there is a word haskell_e < 1627544900 28012 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :my approach was going down from the longest substrings and this became a flaw < 1627545008 41876 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that sounds like an interesting problem < 1627545041 956969 :imode!~imode@user/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1627545055 603760 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :the problem with running LZW on it and then checking frequency in the dictionary is it wouldn't respect word boundaries < 1627545072 196930 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :but maybe you could do a modified version that does respect word boundaries < 1627545140 226931 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :there should be some euristic < 1627545166 810821 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :something that human intuitively applies to find the common words in such arrays < 1627545173 760602 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i dont know how humans do it < 1627545203 772385 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe it could be done with common pairs, 'ha' happens a lot, 'as' happens a lot < 1627545640 110683 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'd say, strings that end at a word boundary probably are ends of words < 1627545776 130338 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1627545836 364275 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :it should find the ends when substrings are concatenated, the '_' is rarely used in my data < 1627545924 743521 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1627546118 736767 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1627552982 920360 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627552999 824394 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627553254 79213 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627553270 815015 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627554752 286683 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.5.60.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv < 1627555000 269714 :jryans!~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d QUIT :Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM < 1627555001 205214 :Deewiant!~deewiant@2001:470:69fc:105::2fd3 QUIT :Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM < 1627555001 947975 :craigoverend[m]!~craigover@2001:470:69fc:105::12bc QUIT :Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM < 1627555003 542682 :fizzie[m]!~fizzie@2001:470:69fc:105::3727 QUIT :Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM < 1627555179 866544 :jryans!~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d JOIN #esolangs jryans :@jryans:matrix.org < 1627555679 900237 :Deewiant!~deewiant@2001:470:69fc:105::2fd3 JOIN #esolangs Deewiant :@deewiant:maon.fi < 1627555679 900297 :craigoverend[m]!~craigover@2001:470:69fc:105::12bc JOIN #esolangs * :@craigoverend:matrix.org < 1627555691 517417 :fizzie[m]!~fizzie@2001:470:69fc:105::3727 JOIN #esolangs * :@fizzie:zem.fi < 1627559473 924066 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.charlton.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1627561412 273581 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1627563061 290619 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.charlton.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam < 1627563929 310106 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1627565522 722666 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 NICK :mycroft2387 < 1627565557 113565 :mycroft2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 NICK :simcop2387 < 1627566377 681929 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1627566408 803992 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1627566460 838643 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1627566543 838034 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627567082 781771 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627567101 902919 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627567354 262089 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627567371 820336 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627568111 900948 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1627568213 239476 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"virtualenv" is such a presumptious command name < 1627568296 191371 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or was, hmm. < 1627568343 30115 :Koen_!~Koen@205.172.9.109.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1627568527 509794 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(python3 -m venv otoh is a bit too obscure) < 1627568560 366989 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Reminds me of some other tools where the Debian packages have had to rename the binaries because of excessive genericity. But I can't remember the examples. < 1627568568 829558 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :"code" is a little bit in that direction. < 1627568585 944356 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(That's VS Code.) < 1627568595 110895 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: "nc". there are two or three versions of netcat, and one norton commander clone with "nc" as the name. and there are some more besides that. < 1627568620 76427 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't recall the others right now < 1627568627 143690 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there were two things called "rename" at some point < 1627568658 8605 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it gets worse with clashes with windows commands: "find", "convert", "head" cause common conflicts < 1627568661 685340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I remember the fight over the 'git' package name and that's not even a common word (though it is a word) < 1627568689 668884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh yeah, the Northern Commander < 1627568691 445275 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and "type" < 1627568715 297122 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"find" and "type" are the same style of clash: they both have an ancient DOS meaning (grep and cat respectively) and an ancient unix meaning < 1627568723 778683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd complain about "type" but "cat" really isn't a better name < 1627568756 360253 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"convert" is both an obscure DOS utility such that the command name still exists on windows for some reason, and one of the public binaries of ImageMagick and its clones; I usually alias the latter to im-convert < 1627568785 962876 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"head" is the unix utility conflicting with some HTTP-related thingy that installs binaries named HEAD, GET, POST, I don't recall what < 1627568843 246145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :some perl thingy... lwp-request < 1627568877 15518 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yeah, "halt". systemd installs a "halt" that does something confusingly different from the traditional "halt", and renames the traditional "halt" to "poweroff". I debugged that one for month, I just couldn't figure out why the new debian couldn't turn off the power on my computer. < 1627568880 669019 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :curse systemd < 1627568886 250480 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I use HEAD sometimes, never GET nor POST... < 1627568900 930768 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :perlbot help head < 1627568901 558110 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: head http://url/; returns the response code and server type from a HEAD request for a particular url. < 1627568924 847374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :# cat ~/bin/halt \ #! /bin/bash \ echo try poweroff < 1627568936 395430 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :perlbot head http://ip6.me/api/ < 1627568938 158703 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: http://ip6.me/api/: 200: OK. Apache/2.4.46 (FreeBSD) OpenSSL/1.1.1d-freebsd < 1627568974 178781 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, somehow `halt` leaves the computer switched on in a state that requires a BIOS-level hard or soft reboot (ctrl-alt-del works, IIRC) < 1627569017 445146 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and "date" and "time" are also DOS vs unix conflicts < 1627569034 896325 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's just one of many nuisances that come with systemd < 1627569038 575811 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though now I just use my datei and dateu aliases on both unix and windows < 1627569046 926130 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :too much magic, really. "where are my core dumps?" < 1627569140 677792 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :then there's "shutdown" and, indeed, "pushd", which are pairs of commands that serve the same main purpose on windows and unix, but are invoked differently < 1627569149 157157 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(not cluttering the fs with year-old core dumpos is probably an improvement for most users though... but I disabled that thing because the whole journalctl business is too awkward) < 1627569188 254282 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: This remeinds me of a previous discussion about git's and mercurial's UIs. < 1627569191 793462 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Of course Debian also has the "alternatives" system, which I think handles the cases like `nc` and `vi`, where there's several versions of a tool that does similar thing. < 1627569194 277607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :reminds < 1627569207 102480 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Too german... :-/ < 1627569228 831003 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: and their new commands, such as sensible-browser < 1627569238 441649 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think they have something like interactive-editor too < 1627569276 381313 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :afaik debian isn't using alternatives for netcat though, the two or three different netcat versions just conflict with each other and can't be installed together < 1627569285 155235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( sensible-browser -> /bin/false ) < 1627569349 35943 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is used for vi and X, and has the result that's hilarious in hindsight only, that if you accidentally uninstall X.org then try to run the startx command, then it does nothing, exits with 0, and gives no error message, because somehow debian alternatives decided that if you have neither X.org or XFree86 installed then true is a suitable fallback < 1627569350 401946 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :eh, the alternatives system isn't bad < 1627569362 528467 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's one I only debugged for hours < 1627569366 212380 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html "Two different packages must not install programs with different functionality but with the same filenames. If this case happens, one of the programs must be renamed. The maintainers should report this to the debian-devel mailing list and try to find a consensus about which program will have to be renamed. If a consensus cannot be reached, < 1627569368 468984 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :/both/ programs must be renamed." < 1627569394 450015 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(If they provide "the same functionality but different implementations", then it's handled via alternatives or "conflicts" dependency entries.) < 1627569410 488190 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: yes, and that's the policy currently broken with "netcat". not with "nc", mind you. < 1627569476 961395 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the two versions of netcat are both imperfect enough that you may want to have both installed to complement each other's mistakes, but you can't, so you just give up and try to learn socat or something < 1627569581 506765 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(one of them is so old it can't do ipv6; the other one is newer but lost the ability to listen and let the kernel choose the port number) < 1627571542 630740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: Oh, checking package names, they are: netcat-openbsd, and netcat-traditional ... so which one is the old one? ;-) (the former knows IPv6 so that answers that question) > 1627573223 75339 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86723&oldid=84248 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+1) 10/* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */ < 1627573401 892267 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627573593 485028 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 JOIN #esolangs delta23 :delta23__ < 1627573654 41096 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627573671 813652 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627573982 814541 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627573999 870891 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627574255 191092 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627574272 913108 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627574436 446968 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1627574771 29466 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm. Brainfuck has the concatenative property: Given any two programs, their juxtaposition is also a program. However, concatenation isn't composition; a wrapper would be needed in order to take outputs from the first program and feed them as inputs to the second program. < 1627574865 140034 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :If only they composed! But they compose with a wrapper. This reminds me of commutativity; for many things, they don't commute, but they commute with an extra "commutator" term. < 1627575050 730238 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1627576982 821628 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627576999 812245 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627577255 60950 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627577273 941881 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627580007 318033 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Terminology question: What do we call it when a language turns unknown identifiers into searches on the filesystem? Like, unknown identifier "foo" becomes an attempt to read foo.sourcecode, or "foo/bar" tries to read foo/bar.sourcecode. < 1627580697 639513 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-118.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. Apparently on Fedora there are also two versions of netcat. Openbsd netcat, which is exclusively netcat, and nmap’s netcat, named ncat, which is both ncat and nc. < 1627580885 998224 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-118.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also the halt manpage claims that poweroff existed before systemd, but that halt was usually a synonym of it. Not sure what actually halting is ever useful for, though. < 1627580968 580494 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: that is called a shell < 1627581115 897532 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627581132 760123 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Yes, shells have this behavior. But I feel like I've seen it, or variations on it, in other languages. I was wondering if it had a name. < 1627581644 226915 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, matlab/octave does it too < 1627581713 383296 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-71.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the rather silly https://metacpan.org/pod/Shell module, which is not really intended to be used seriously. < 1627582313 66265 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1627582317 262771 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627582463 25966 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1627582896 404116 :imode!~imode@c-24-19-125-20.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :imode < 1627583785 606890 :imode!~imode@c-24-19-125-20.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.1 < 1627583801 282686 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN #esolangs imode :imode > 1627584517 187232 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minim14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86724&oldid=86722 5* 03KakkoiiChris 5* (+1) 10/* V2 */ Fixed typo < 1627588839 54970 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1 < 1627588963 730650 :dutch!~DutchIngr@user/dutch JOIN #esolangs DutchIngraham :dutch < 1627590460 266793 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1627590943 810792 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1627590968 320040 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 JOIN #esolangs delta23 :delta23__ < 1627591604 314903 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627591610 255396 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1627591626 199729 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627595099 559329 :Koen_!~Koen@205.172.9.109.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1627595537 134862 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1627595556 216746 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627595810 136375 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1627595830 398122 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1627595834 297554 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@94.41.5.60.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1627600414 306156 :impomatic!~impomatic@host31-50-85-5.range31-50.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: impomatic