01:15:36 <b_jonas> ok, so it's probably like basic, which is case sensitive, so on old computers people used all upper case, because that worked well with the old printers and monitors, but now people more and more prefer more readable mostly lower case, with some upper case initials
02:23:04 <esolangs> [[Headass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86894&oldid=86893 * TheJonyMyster * (+251) formatting in comp class
02:42:12 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86895&oldid=86859 * KakkoiiChris * (+40) /* Operators */ Added evaluation order
02:46:40 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86896&oldid=86895 * KakkoiiChris * (-79) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added syntax highlighting
02:46:58 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86897&oldid=86896 * KakkoiiChris * (+316) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added line 1
02:47:34 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86898&oldid=86897 * KakkoiiChris * (+316) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added line 2
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03:21:49 <KakkoiiChris> I was told by the Discord that I should ask here for some help with the rate limit on my lang's wiki page?
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03:23:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Got a match?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86899 * TheJonyMyster * (+308) i may be stupid,
03:24:11 <esolangs> [[Talk:Got a match?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86900&oldid=86899 * TheJonyMyster * (+4) fixed format
03:24:23 <Corbin> This would be a good place to ask. I don't recall who could help with that, though.
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04:30:06 <esolangs> [[Cpy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86901 * ZippyMagician * (+3259) Main page for cpy, info
04:30:08 <esolangs> [[Cpy/Converter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86902 * ZippyMagician * (+1379) Add converter (bf -> cpy)
04:31:07 <esolangs> [[User:ZippyMagician]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86903&oldid=86823 * ZippyMagician * (+9) Add cpy
04:31:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86904&oldid=86875 * ZippyMagician * (+10) Add cpy
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10:53:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:SussyLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86905 * Gabryx64 * (+188) Created page with "sussy imposter baka ..."
11:13:37 <esolangs> [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86906&oldid=86883 * Gabryx64 * (+1618)
11:14:31 <esolangs> [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86907&oldid=86906 * Gabryx64 * (+1)
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12:57:02 <esolangs> [[SussyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86908&oldid=86907 * Gabryx64 * (+2360) /* SussyLang */
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13:35:23 <esolangs> [[Cpy/Converter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86909&oldid=86902 * ZippyMagician * (+401) Fix bug in converter
13:37:41 <esolangs> [[Cpy/Converter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86910&oldid=86909 * ZippyMagician * (+14) Add back button
13:38:35 <esolangs> [[Cpy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86911&oldid=86901 * ZippyMagician * (-54) Update page with fixes
13:39:43 <esolangs> [[Cpy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86912&oldid=86911 * ZippyMagician * (-8) /* About */
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14:09:31 <esolangs> [[Cpy/Converter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86917&oldid=86914 * ZippyMagician * (+13) Add back link
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16:35:23 <oerjan> KakkoiiChris: are you there? i can disable the size filter for a moment for you
16:37:31 <oerjan> otoh it _is_ a rather large page, so i might recommend splitting up
16:42:50 <esolangs> [[Cpy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86918&oldid=86916 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) Fix cat
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17:04:36 <nakilon> does anyone remember how did exactly that "collection of puzzles" with Loopy reach this channel a week-two ago?
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17:05:49 <nakilon> btw, velik is currently down due to the ongoing migration between hostings
17:10:21 <oerjan> which collection of puzzles
17:11:53 <nakilon> oerjan that's how that website with Loopy called
17:13:25 <oerjan> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2021-07.html#lB9 shows you were the first to mention loopy last month
17:14:12 <oerjan> and fizzie mentioned the collection a few messages above
17:14:29 <oerjan> but of course, we've discussed that many times over the years
17:15:11 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure i learned it first on #esoteric
17:15:19 <oerjan> but not at all sure when
17:16:49 <oerjan> in fact, i usually have one of those puzzles open on my laptop at any given time (currently Dominosa)
17:18:17 <oerjan> cycling alphabetically whenever i tire of the previous one or windows nags about rebooting, mostly
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17:25:05 <int-e> 2009-02-07 18:34:06: <oerjan> "Trojan horse Generic12.BJXH" it says \ 18:34:19: <oerjan> in [t]atham's puzzle connection?
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17:30:12 <oerjan> wait are you saying i might have mentioned it first?
17:32:38 <oerjan> hm that doesn't sound like a first mention
17:36:47 <oerjan> or rather, i'm speaking as if i've already played that collection for quite a while
17:40:20 <int-e> oerjan: the site had been mentioned earlier, but the first proper link to the puzzle collection as a whole was 2009-06-30 15:53:07: <Deewiant> Also "mines" at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ claims to do it
17:40:27 <int-e> (the web version, that is)
17:42:58 <b_jonas> how common is it that someone becomes king/queen in a hereditary monarchy (hereditary interpreted broadly) before they are born?
17:43:32 <b_jonas> eg. if their father was the king and they die before the child is born
17:45:31 <nakilon> and the award for the least expected question goes to...
17:48:20 <oerjan> i'm sure we've seen less expected ones. but not sure if they were also from b_jonas ;)
17:48:30 <b_jonas> sorry, I was just thinking about the primogeniture succession rule for the king of Great Britain and Ireland
17:49:22 <b_jonas> and there's the implication that if you don't want to turn a monarch to not a monarch while they're alive without them abdicating or forced to abdicate because of some scandal, then you need to accept that the unborn child of their recently dead uncle needs to be king
17:49:56 <b_jonas> this was probably even funnier with the old male primogeniture rule and without ultrasounds good enough to predict the gender of an unborn child
17:51:27 <b_jonas> and the problem could come up for other hereditary monarchy positions with a different monarch
17:52:10 <b_jonas> so I expect the question must have come up at least a few times in history
17:52:35 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure i've read of examples, i just cannot remember them
17:52:59 <b_jonas> it could even cause religious problems, like if the king is required to be Christian, which requires a ceremony of baptism, which is generally done after birth
17:54:59 <b_jonas> not that that part is my problem, let the relevant church deal with figuring out the rules for that
17:56:53 <b_jonas> and you could say that with the decreasing political power that European kings/queens have now, who is the king/queen is also less likely to be my problem in the 21th century
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17:59:37 <oerjan> i looked at w:regency to see if it mentioned this case, but no
18:02:01 <nakilon> imagine a King becoming a Queen
18:03:00 <b_jonas> nakilon: I don't think that would matter much, king and queen are just different english words for effectively the same meaning here
18:03:01 <nakilon> what a shock for the kingdom
18:06:03 <b_jonas> I mean as far as I understand, the U.K. had new coins cast with different portraits of Queen Elizabeth II just because she aged, so they could do the same with a king who changes to a queen
18:07:06 <b_jonas> and there's all sort of text that's quickly changed between "His Majesty" vs "Her Majesty", it's not like that change itself matters much
18:08:43 <b_jonas> like, if there's a queen, and he dies, and there's a new king, and you take an oath to serve the queen after the king died but before the news reached you, that wouldn't even invalidate the oath, because you're taking an oath to serve the position, including future rightful queens, not just the current king
18:18:42 * oerjan appreciates b_jonas's return to pronominal slipup there
18:19:30 <oerjan> i haven't noticed you doing that in a while
18:24:15 <int-e> hmm https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/tents.html is still annoying :P
18:25:31 <riv> I love tents
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18:28:14 <riv> ones I like: dominosa, light up, loopy, magnets, pearl, signpost, tents, tracks, undead, unruly, untangle
18:28:26 <int-e> riv: The annoying bit is that there's no way to mark trees
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18:29:32 <riv> there's some good puzzles not in simon tathams collection too: star battle, statue park
18:30:05 <int-e> palisade is cute too
18:30:31 <riv> ill try it and mosaic, i never noticed mosaic before
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18:31:07 <riv> https://krazydad.com/play/area51/ is also good, it's a mix of lots of puzzles
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18:32:36 <int-e> untangle... I used to play planarity *a lot*.
18:34:30 <b_jonas> I just uploaded https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bp-csatornafedel-magykir.jpg , an old manhole cover whose caption, cast in metal, refers to "royal telephone network". I think that label would be invariant regardless the gender of the king/queen, but that's basically impossible to test because the two monarchs of Ostrich-Hungry were definitely kings, and we don't have a six hundred year old
18:36:07 <int-e> Oh, the untangle implementation misses the "mark intersections" feature
18:37:02 <b_jonas> apparently the telephone network on Budapest started in 1881
18:39:23 <b_jonas> though, given that I photographed that on the street in 2013, it's most likely to be recent, probably from between the two world wars
18:39:43 <fizzie> "POST OFFICE TELEGRAPHS" is what a lot of the manhole covers hereabouts say.
18:40:00 <fizzie> Not sure when they're from.
18:41:02 <fizzie> https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2015/01/i875/telegraph.jpg <- looking like that
18:41:24 <riv> I recognize that
18:41:31 <nakilon> something something "why manholes are circle?"
18:41:51 <fizzie> Yeah, I think all of these are rectangular though.
18:42:53 <nakilon> I guess the only time I saw rectangular manhole was in Odessa, on a very popular tourist site
18:43:59 <fizzie> It is a good feature of this current timeline that a lot of London's lavatorial history is related to the company established by Thomas Crapper.
18:46:35 <int-e> still easy... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ut.png
18:48:41 <b_jonas> here, only smaller manhole covers are circular, all the larger ones are rectangular, probably because the larger ones (not counting very old ones like this) are made of reinforced concrete with a metal frame, rather than all metal
18:48:48 <int-e> (the thing with marking intersections is that when there are many points, I tend to stash the solved part in a corner and it's easy to introduce an intersection by accident that is really hard to see)
18:48:51 <nakilon> oh wait, no, that wasn't even a rectangle, lol
18:49:13 <nakilon> https://goo.gl/maps/1Nzrf39GX9kwo6iy7
18:50:39 <b_jonas> and the largest manholes are covered by two rectangular covers, presumably to avoid a huge very heavy manhole cover, and circular would suck for that too
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19:02:07 <KakkoiiChris> oerjan I'm here now, sorry. I was out with family for the moment.
19:05:35 <nakilon> riv did you try to solve the words thing further?
19:10:53 <riv> nakilon, I know what to do next (sort by word length, delete substrings)
19:10:57 <riv> what i didn't implement it
19:11:07 <riv> actually maybe it's not that simple
19:11:16 <riv> a shorter word might be better, if it's used many more times
19:11:29 <oerjan> KakkoiiChris: i've temporarily disabled the filter now
19:11:41 <riv> conside strings with an equal number of ) and ( in them
19:12:16 <riv> for example "()" and ")()("
19:12:31 <riv> does any language assign semantics to these?
19:13:28 <KakkoiiChris> oerjan Thank you, kindly~ I of course now realize why not many others bother with the syntax highlighting like I've done, but I was so close to finishing it that I didn't want to give up on it. I should have it done by the end of the day~
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19:15:47 <fizzie> Hmm, I wonder if there's MediaWiki extensions that allow for "manual" syntax highlighting using a syntax that's more compact and also doesn't involve hardcoding the colors necessarily.
19:16:15 <fizzie> There's definitely syntax highlighting extensions, but the ones I've come across are those where they support more... mainstream languages, and do it automatically.
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19:21:13 <KakkoiiChris> fizzie Is there a way to create a CSS sheet for your page? If that's the case, then I could keep the classes from Notepad++'s HTML output, and it would be a lot smaller.
19:23:44 <oerjan> (just pointing out that it's not simply matched parens or reversed matched)
19:23:55 <fizzie> I think probably not. There might be some security implications in allowing "untrusted" CSS that's shown to other users.
19:24:51 <KakkoiiChris> True,,, oh well. At least I can keep on editing.
19:26:43 <oerjan> there might be a way to do it with templates, maybe?
19:27:02 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86919&oldid=86898 * KakkoiiChris * (+5870) /* Relative Range Access */ Added syntax highlighting
19:27:09 <fizzie> I imagine I could probably also stick in some "generic" syntax highlighting classes ("keyword", "number", whatnot) with semi-reasonable defaults into a global stylesheet file somewhere, which users could then customize in their user stylesheets if they like.
19:27:57 <esolangs> [[Aboba]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86920&oldid=86880 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0)
19:27:59 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86921&oldid=86919 * KakkoiiChris * (+934) /* Logical Not (!x) */ Added syntax highlighting
19:28:34 <fizzie> oerjan: Maybe if you want to make the slowest-to-render page ever. (Not that it's a concern with our wiki's amount of traffic, just saying.)
19:28:52 <esolangs> [[Aboba]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86922&oldid=86920 * PixelatedStarfish * (-9) /* External links */
19:29:06 <fizzie> "Render" there meaning the part MediaWiki does, not the part the client does.
19:29:20 <oerjan> KakkoiiChris: ok you're past the limit now so i'll turn the filter back on and you still be ok as long as you don't shrink the page back below it
19:29:26 <nakilon> lol π
°οΈπ
±οΈπ
ΎοΈπ
±οΈπ
°οΈ
19:31:15 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86923&oldid=86921 * KakkoiiChris * (+1487) /* Logical Narrowing (?x) */ Added syntax highlighting
19:32:00 <nakilon> dark color schemes suck if you ask me https://i.imgur.com/4RX4jY3.png
19:32:08 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86924&oldid=86923 * KakkoiiChris * (+1295) /* Unary Operators */ Added syntax highlighting
20:02:54 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86925&oldid=86924 * KakkoiiChris * (+19777) /* Binary Operators */ Added syntax highlighting
20:05:33 <KakkoiiChris> oerjan You mean not to remove any text, right?
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20:18:19 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86926&oldid=86925 * KakkoiiChris * (+1013) /* Ternary Operator (x ? y : z) */ Added syntax highlighting
20:22:05 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86927&oldid=86926 * KakkoiiChris * (+14336) /* Design Patterns */ Added syntax highlighting
20:26:03 <b_jonas> "<oerjan> (just pointing out that it's not simply matched parens or reversed matched)" => but cyclically rotated matched parens, right?
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20:42:18 <esolangs> [[Minim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86928&oldid=86927 * KakkoiiChris * (-1761) /* Design Patterns */ Fixed formatting
20:42:56 <riv> there will always be a cyclic shift
20:43:04 <riv> because you can align the zero point
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21:35:54 <int-e> riv: the thing about untangled is that it's more a matter of patience than anything else... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ut500.png
21:36:30 <int-e> (it does produce funny patterns though, which probably differ a lot between players)
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21:38:59 <riv> i dont think ive ever done one that complex
21:40:25 <fizzie> What's the settings for that?
21:41:05 <fizzie> Judging from the file name, 500 points, but it doesn't seem that much.
21:41:41 <fizzie> Huh. I guess it's just hard to estimate.
21:44:35 <int-e> Well, I didn't count them. But 500 is what I told it to use.
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21:51:35 <fizzie> I think there was a standalone version of that game too. "gplanar"? No, "gplanarity".
21:52:42 <int-e> played that endlessly maybe a decade ago
21:53:23 <int-e> it had some cute twists, like some levels with non-planar graphs
21:54:21 <int-e> also some useful editing features, most notably a zoom feature which I mostly used to concentrate the initial points in the lower-left corner so I had room to operate
21:54:45 <int-e> but alos a block move feature that was occasionally handy for rearranging the solved part.
21:56:15 <fizzie> I wonder if it would be a plausible UI tweak if there was a mode that hides edges you haven't touched any endpoint of, so which maybe could allow you to do the solution in the middle of the circle.
21:58:17 <int-e> I wonder whether gplanarity had something like that (untouched lines in gray?)
22:00:22 <fizzie> Hmm, I cant find any sort of settings dialog. As far as buttons go, it seems to have just a "mark intersections" and a general show/hide lines which completely hides all lines.
22:00:34 <fizzie> But dehighlighting untouched lines rings some sort of a bell.
22:02:24 <int-e> ah it highlights lines when you click a point... I guess that's what I'm confusing it with
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22:05:01 <fizzie> I didn't remember that gplanarity gives a score on time too.
22:05:12 <fizzie> Maybe it's changed, or maybe I just forgot.
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23:21:59 <esolangs> [[Ark]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86929&oldid=86736 * Spargle * (+184) /* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */
23:23:02 <int-e> fizzie: there's also the original flash game, maybe that had a feature like this
23:31:13 <esolangs> [[The Goblins Operation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86930 * PixelatedStarfish * (+541) Created page with "The ''Goblins Operation'' is an modified goto operation that enables subroutine like behaviors. The operation was created for [[Blood32]] and it is named after the hemoglobin..."
23:31:57 <esolangs> [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86931&oldid=86930 * PixelatedStarfish * (+30)
23:33:59 <esolangs> [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86932&oldid=86931 * PixelatedStarfish * (+601)
23:34:22 <esolangs> [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86933&oldid=86932 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Goblins Operation Example in Blood32 */
23:37:31 <esolangs> [[Goblins Operation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86934 * PixelatedStarfish * (+35) Redirected page to [[The Goblins Operation]]
23:39:03 <esolangs> [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86935&oldid=86933 * PixelatedStarfish * (+58) /* Goblins Operation Example in Blood32 */
23:39:48 <esolangs> [[The Goblins Operation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86936&oldid=86935 * PixelatedStarfish * (+22) /* Goblins Operation Example in Blood32 */
23:41:37 <esolangs> [[Goblins]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86937 * PixelatedStarfish * (+35) Redirected page to [[The Goblins Operation]]
23:43:44 <esolangs> [[Esoteric algorithm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86938&oldid=75103 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+0) /* Potential Use */ monogamous monotonous
23:43:54 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86939&oldid=86226 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* The Goblins Operation */
23:44:07 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86940&oldid=86939 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* The Goblins Operation */
23:44:55 <esolangs> [[Blood32]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86941&oldid=86940 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Pointer operations */
23:46:36 <esolangs> [[The Goblins Operation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86942&oldid=86936 * OrichalcumCosmonaut * (+1) /* Goblins Operation Example in [[Blood32]] */ indicted indicated
23:57:42 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=86943&oldid=86514 * CosmicMan08 * (+3631) added bf69 commands
23:58:19 <esolangs> [[Bf69]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86944 * CosmicMan08 * (+43) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]]
23:58:38 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck+++++++++++++++++++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86945 * CosmicMan08 * (+43) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]]
23:59:09 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=86946 * CosmicMan08 * (+43) Redirected page to [[Brainfuck++++++++++++++++++++]]