< 1629158472 996280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm xkcd updated earlier than usual lately < 1629158888 498082 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan: yeah, probably < 1629158895 117049 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you're right < 1629159396 632184 :sprock!~sprocklem@user/sprock QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1629159409 367601 :sprock!~sprocklem@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :Maeve Sproule < 1629160217 625739 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1629161568 243492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`recipe < 1629161570 426074 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :hicken and \ remaining 1/4 cup of chopped celery and cornstarch. Stir in \ and remaining honey. Repeat with chopped fresh lettuce; \ cheese mixture over baking sheet. Season together and stir meat into egg salt. \ Add the shapes of flour with the corner and sugar in a large \ pan. Serve with peanut oil and almonds. Pour the cake on a bowl, stirring \ occasionally and remove from heat; cook over moderate heat, stirring constantly, \ until the meat is < 1629161632 824346 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :serve first, then cook again? interesting, recycling food to serve it twice < 1629162374 162745 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] BusyBeaver42 < 1629163027 43677 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi, long time no chat, I'm one of the guys working on the Magic the Gathering most damage without going infinite deck, we are currently implementing the waterfall model (https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_Waterfall_Model) < 1629163059 337990 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Today we found an infinite that ruins a lot of progress < 1629163083 794574 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would take out the edits one by one until the issue is gone < 1629163092 315831 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I found one < 1629163107 312194 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :then I put it back and take out from the other side < 1629163108 199564 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It would be fixed however if the 'flooding' variant of the waterclocks were Turing Complete < 1629163115 247070 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :until I find another one < 1629163151 245363 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's two bisections < 1629163196 37373 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :where flooding clocks instead of adding their row once when they are triggered, add it X times where X is the number of times the clock was incremented < 1629163201 231295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: that's not bisection if you do it "one by one" < 1629163209 703252 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :oerjan, yeah < 1629163223 255507 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :imagine I said bisect in the first message ) < 1629163229 185582 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :just doing it from one side, then from another < 1629163229 265805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :OKAY < 1629163289 663567 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( But n+1 = n + 1 is splitting n+1 into two parts. ) < 1629163344 854324 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh hi BusyBeaver42 < 1629163361 645982 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :This cause the clocks to explode in value and behave apparently erratically. < 1629163382 609904 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi b_jonas < 1629163431 466692 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :BusyBeaver42: did you return because of https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=5661 Striking new Beeping Busy Beaver champion, or is this an unrelated renewal of interest? > 1629163431 505798 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DDR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87339&oldid=65332 5* 03DoggyDogWhirl 5* (+41) 10Fixed order of arrows > 1629163435 417038 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DDR/Python Implementation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87340&oldid=63978 5* 03DoggyDogWhirl 5* (+60) 10 > 1629163487 917144 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DDR14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87341&oldid=87339 5* 03DoggyDogWhirl 5* (+0) 10 < 1629163500 562905 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I returned because its now very relevent whether or not the flooding version is TC < 1629163559 483868 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we missed a way to set dralnu's crusades up to allow us to halt an infinite computation at an arbitrary point < 1629163566 102120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523 needs some pinging for this. < 1629163600 295354 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, he'll probably appear within a day < 1629163610 976239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I think he already thought about that < 1629163639 177624 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so we'd need to either only do one BB computation, or cut dralnu's crusade < 1629163671 164628 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cutting the crudase makes us the 'flooding' version and we dont know if it is TC < 1629163680 345827 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :crusade* < 1629163776 703855 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I admit don't really understand how the waterfall model comes into this < 1629163981 608211 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we set up Xathrid Necromancers according to the waterfall model matrix, Coat of arms keeps the tokens the right size while 2x arcbond keep triggering each other until the computation halts < 1629164047 506622 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Dralnu's crusade lets each clock have a triggering creature type that activates the necromancers < 1629164082 519725 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so that they dont trigger on each creature dying, just the one < 1629164087 350559 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but I can't recall what made that never go infinite. was it a trick with M:tG's infinity rule that makes some infinite loops a draw before you start them? < 1629164095 626891 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah < 1629164117 167527 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unbreakable infinite loops are instant draws < 1629164140 585472 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but that would normally still let you deal an unbounded amount of damage depending on the play you choose < 1629164169 365727 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is why the deck is set up that we can't break out of a computation < 1629164186 622373 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1629164195 121461 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so if the computation never halts, we can't damage them < 1629164203 550786 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but before you set up the loop < 1629164229 353726 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :can't you set up a loop that will eventually deal an arbitrarily large amount of damage, more than any natural number that I choose? < 1629164269 488700 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nope, as computation is bounded by the busy beaver function < 1629164284 825703 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think we had this discussion and I'll just have to go back in the channel logs to find it < 1629164314 927041 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, is the argument to the busy beaver (of some variant) the number of basic cards you have in the deck or something like that? < 1629164343 374065 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1629164344 946253 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :like you have to sacrifice a Plains every time you add a state to your machine, and you can't get any other than by drawing them from your deck? < 1629164345 850948 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah the size of the computation is limited by other resources < 1629164390 73795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or an Island. it's always an Island. nobody would mind sacrificing Plains. < 1629164423 14587 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Arcane Spyglass is a card I love, though it's not really useful for this kind of deck) < 1629164441 705044 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :We are a bit more efficient than that and can get BB(5->5->5->5->5) or < 1629164447 901578 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or so < 1629164460 895346 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, so not just the argument to the BB function, but eventually the argument of some fast-growing function < 1629164478 963457 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah its not BB(infinity) < 1629164618 500827 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :before the infinite was found we were thinking we could then do more computation, building off of the output from that < 1629164655 153048 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and actually do quite a lot of computations actually < 1629164734 713823 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but now we either have to switch to the flooding version, or only get the one BB iteration < 1629165016 954080 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so we really would like the flooding version to be TC < 1629165124 318441 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Technically we could get away with a bit less than TC, but that's splitting hairs) > 1629165201 23083 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87342&oldid=87105 5* 03Ais523 5* (-31752) 10clear Sandbox < 1629165287 618927 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 JOIN #esolangs delta23 :delta23__ < 1629166972 555907 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1629167442 792085 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Backrooms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87343&oldid=87314 5* 03Razetime 5* (+4) 10spelling corrections < 1629167890 661635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1629168935 339640 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1629168971 257989 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BusyBeaver42: I'm here, but I still don't have much of an idea of whether it's TC or not – it seems like a hard language to do a TCness proof or disproof for < 1629169171 55634 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I think the requirement was to get the opponent's life total as negative as possible, so most loops with a damaging effect in would just set it down to -1 or -2 or so and then stop because you'd won the game < 1629169235 554677 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, now I'm reminded of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Xigxag, which is the sort of language which seems very unlikely to be TC and yet it's hard to disprove < 1629169357 294753 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :flooding Waterfall Model is better-behaved than Xigxag is, so it's more likely to be TC, but presents the same sort of problem in trying to prove it < 1629170766 442517 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ok, if you don't use DMM's group's rule about that then that's another way to avoid some infinite loops, but that doesn't help avoid big finite loops. for that you need a limited resource, such as your deck or your own hit points, and BusyBeaver42 says they have one in that deck < 1629171159 119316 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, the short version is we'd get a batch of computations for every sorcery we cast, the cheapest sorcery costs 2 life, and we gain life via 1 red mana, gain red via blue gain blue via white and gain white via green, gain green by drawing black lotus, draw cards with floating dream zubera with some other optimizations in there. < 1629171287 824865 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with the 'exchange rate' of those resources improving to the output of the last BB computation, the numbers get astronomical even if the busy beaver function was linear < 1629171455 909664 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: one question I have that's maybe slightly easier than TC-ness is is any halting waterfall machine has a halting flooding machine that runs for at least as long < 1629171531 650864 :mnr!~mnrmnaugh@68.162.206.56 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1629171535 442621 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you could prove that, I suspect you could prove TCness < 1629171564 155377 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think it's even theoretically possible for a sub-TC language to have a busy beaver that grows faster than a TC language < 1629171615 72945 :mnrmnaugh!~mnrmnaugh@68.162.206.56 JOIN #esolangs mnrmnaugh :realname < 1629171635 998791 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :certainly, it's impossible for a language whose halting problem is decidable to have a busy beaver that grows faster than a TC language's < 1629171636 4518 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but I'm not sure about the possibility of sub-TC but undecidable languages) < 1629171636 4573 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 QUIT :Quit: sorry about my connection < 1629171731 342770 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1629171847 957738 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you have two languages A and B, B is Turing-complete, and A is computable (i.e. not super-Turing), then BB_A(n) < BB_B(n+k) for some constant k < 1629171864 842975 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's impossible for a sub-TC language to have a busy beaver function that grows meaningfully faster than that for a TC language < 1629171937 379552 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, hmm, this actually relies on B having some sort of fairly sane string literals < 1629171940 906443 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but The Waterfall Model does < 1629171958 575752 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :otherwise you can create a language with an insane encoding < 1629172050 477145 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, interesting < 1629172243 887843 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess that makes sense, I was hoping for a shortcut, but seems like no such luck < 1629172622 986141 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Though we dont need "meaningfully faster" than the BB function. < 1629172669 322708 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just "not meaningfully slower" < 1629172919 87062 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when it comes to busy beaver functions, there's usually no real difference < 1629172963 706867 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :We could also potentially have 2 'normal' waterclocks > 1629172968 13471 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07The Language That Explodes14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87344 5* 03Ais523 5* (+2423) 10new joke language > 1629173034 954499 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87345&oldid=86876 5* 03Ais523 5* (+79) 10/* General languages */ +[[The Language That Explodes]] < 1629173074 367256 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Though i'm not sure how much that helps with TC < 1629173137 890490 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But it certainly can't hurt right? < 1629173158 860718 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, that would make things easier (although they're probably still too difficult) < 1629173206 664504 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what's the precise rule for determining how much gets added to a flooding waterclock? < 1629173231 492039 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you mean by? < 1629173268 484439 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah yes, right < 1629173328 761731 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when a flooding clock trips, instead of sending 1 copy of its row, it sends X where X is how much it has been incremented since the last time it tripped. < 1629173368 224435 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(we are also fine with clocks staying at 0) < 1629173597 332907 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I need to go to bed; I may think about it some more, but I can't guarantee that I'll find the answer (it seems like a pretty hard problem, and finding the original version of Waterfall took me years) < 1629173621 904681 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it might be interesting to create a page on the wiki about it, in case it attracts attention of any of the esolang experts who don't use IRC (although that's a fairly long shot) < 1629173741 230991 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.118 QUIT :Quit: bedtime < 1629173915 726622 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sounds good, thanks < 1629175118 305822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"even if the busy beaver function was linear" => now that's an odd hypothetical < 1629175174 307661 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, i mean it would be less than the BB function < 1629175196 464400 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you start chaining arrows together and things get big fast < 1629175228 270102 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, I know < 1629175250 593453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you mentioned 5->5->5->5->5, that's already big < 1629175540 59428 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :last year's standard deck got to (42↑↑↑↑42)→(42↑↑↑↑42)→(42↑↑↑↑42)→(42↑↑↑↑42)→50→7 < 1629175546 520232 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on turn 2 < 1629175619 129348 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :turn 3* < 1629175685 9560 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :link to the writeup if you are interested < 1629175686 520042 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wjjHXZgGTnI0Qu6-L8pSyz9RZ72XL5xj4FszvHr2eaU/edit?usp=sharing < 1629176470 48491 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :What rules are you using for "most damage without infinite" Magic: the Gathering, such as: What format and deck restrictions? What is opponent (if any) doing? What are you trying to damage (or does it matter)? Are any state-based actions ignored? etc? < 1629177414 986997 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mainly, vintage. opponents deck is 60 wastes, and will act against our interests, we are damaging the opponent, and all rules of MTG are observed the entire time < 1629177550 920343 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :We've been doing a standard deck every year, though those don't need to go off turn 1 < 1629177603 272313 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK. What will be done with random effects (including shuffling)? < 1629177630 66458 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we get to pick as this is theoretical max < 1629177640 148336 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK < 1629177661 905944 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though the distribution is so skewed that this is the average damage as well < 1629177983 858692 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh and no sideboard < 1629178062 486257 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sideboard would basically make the deck 74 cards + a wish > 1629182137 598863 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Flooding Waterfall Model14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87346 5* 03FortyTwo 5* (+1826) 10Rough draft of flooding waterclocks < 1629182206 522989 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@2601:1c0:f:53e6:4849:e1b5:950f:4fa6 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1629183029 346801 :spruit11_!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:2d8e:31e9:d2b5:c97d JOIN #esolangs * :anon < 1629183250 659127 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:cc2:35ba:cbc2:b281 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1629183770 458178 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1629183926 685294 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :someone here asked how to move the edge around block in own analogue of dot < 1629183927 372676 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1629183931 110113 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1629183973 271249 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :judging from -v verbose flag I assume dot creates fake vertices along the edges to optimize them < 1629184103 890632 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks like 1500 vertices is too much for him ..( https://i.imgur.com/LZGkV8T.png < 1629184176 98078 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :1500 vertices and 9000 edges < 1629186391 958273 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1629186752 535921 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursaga < 1629186780 634323 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1629187561 640652 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1629187692 629465 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1629187979 724800 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1629189202 346357 :imode!~imode@user/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1629191278 103758 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably I didn't have to invent a wheel of reducing the graph few months ago (if you remember, it was about homebrew deps tree) < 1629191289 287456 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://graphviz.org/pdf/tred.1.pdf -- this thing seems to be installed with graphviz < 1629192317 75627 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1 < 1629192346 636691 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat < 1629193330 163922 :Guest710!~Guest7@136.36.7.69 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest7 < 1629194156 863531 :Guest710!~Guest7@136.36.7.69 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1629195343 186718 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :BusyBeaver42: and your deck is limited to 60 cards? < 1629195384 464432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-12-67.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"sideboard would basically make the deck 74 cards + a wish" ah, that answers it. so yes, 60 cards. < 1629197254 862541 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river < 1629204152 240351 :orichalcumcosmon!~orichalcu@159.196.0.223 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1629205077 864304 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :also it is in Mathematica https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/TransitiveReductionGraph.html < 1629206330 47224 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.78 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1629206776 518936 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1629207906 259746 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.78 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1629210982 660179 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif JOIN #esolangs hanif :hanif < 1629211899 859672 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1629212173 655524 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1629212462 16503 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1629212535 618484 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1629213028 743494 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1629213048 723350 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif JOIN #esolangs hanif :hanif < 1629213290 181991 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] BusyBeaver42 > 1629213884 204698 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Thesundidntvanish 5* 10New user account > 1629215034 26860 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Headass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87347&oldid=87220 5* 03TheJonyMyster 5* (+3205) 10Added Headascii section > 1629215083 43369 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Headass14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87348&oldid=87347 5* 03TheJonyMyster 5* (-20) 10removed unnecessary table title > 1629215242 317523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ark14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87349&oldid=87017 5* 03Spargle 5* (+188) 10/* Ark: The esolang that is actually kind of useful. */ < 1629215344 637313 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1629215348 909791 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Headass14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87350&oldid=87348 5* 03TheJonyMyster 5* (+311) 10hello world again < 1629215709 56577 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN #esolangs imode :imode < 1629216111 615775 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer JOIN #esolangs dyeplexer :t b k ky jt h bc < 1629216125 950532 :Hooloovoo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1629217647 711095 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif JOIN #esolangs hanif :hanif < 1629217948 671092 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1629218497 380818 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Cortex14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87351&oldid=63921 5* 03Cortex 5* (-94) 10bye i guess < 1629218676 769097 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1629218819 182327 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] BusyBeaver42 < 1629218943 147285 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas yeah both decks are limited to 60 cards < 1629221611 56419 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.147 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1629221687 685948 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.147 QUIT :Client Quit < 1629221712 600984 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.147 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) > 1629222015 109932 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07\ELLOWOS14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87352&oldid=87331 5* 03GermanSpetsnaz 5* (+25) 10/* Memory */ > 1629222350 650112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07\ELLOWOS14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87353&oldid=87352 5* 03GermanSpetsnaz 5* (+96) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629222843 452664 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07YPIMOOMFWAMOOMLWAMOOMNWAMOOMCWAMOOMFWAMOOMSWAMOOMTWAMOOMCWAMOOMB14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87354&oldid=87153 5* 03Martsadas 5* (+1307) 10 < 1629222846 388478 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@37.115.210.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1629225000 65952 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs : good news for you ais523, flooding clocks have a similar problem with infinites, so its not super relevant if its TC or not < 1629225010 467383 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :bad news for me though < 1629225144 325441 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1629225288 340967 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :The infinite is related to the fact that some of our creatures have two types, and we can have three of those arcbonded and kept barely alive by two different clocks that refill themselves, then reordering the arcbond triggers can cause them to die (123123 ->12131213) < 1629225479 48189 :spruit11_!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:2d8e:31e9:d2b5:c97d QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1629225500 609756 :spruit11!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:2d8e:31e9:d2b5:c97d JOIN #esolangs * :anon < 1629225621 647664 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif JOIN #esolangs hanif :hanif < 1629226970 950199 :hanif!~hanif@gateway/tor-sasl/hanif QUIT :Quit: quit < 1629227342 557261 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :it might still matter if we replace arcbond with massacre girl, but she's very restrictive as we don't want to be able to set off a computation too easily. < 1629227531 411116 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.147 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's still an interesting question in theory, although I'm a little relieved it doesn't have an urgent practical use < 1629227944 882125 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-39-229.b49627.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1629228097 945976 :vyv!~vyv@bras-vprn-nrbaon0452w-lp130-25-184-147-14-206.dsl.bell.ca JOIN #esolangs vyv :vyv verver > 1629230394 604875 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RocketRace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87355&oldid=82405 5* 03RocketRace 5* (+87) 10portsy < 1629230433 696096 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's a pretty generous definition of practical > 1629231918 158809 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Heptor 5* 10New user account > 1629232157 532947 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87356&oldid=87338 5* 03Heptor 5* (+210) 10/* Introductions */ > 1629232397 489439 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87357&oldid=87127 5* 03FLeckami21 5* (+260) 10adding Sokolang < 1629232848 776807 :vyv!~vyv@bras-vprn-nrbaon0452w-lp130-25-184-147-14-206.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: Konversation terminated! > 1629233306 327869 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87358 5* 03Heptor 5* (+1409) 10Matrixfuck is a brainfuck derivative with the memory being a 2d array. > 1629233417 796026 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87359&oldid=87358 5* 03Heptor 5* (+104) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629233752 814159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sokolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87360&oldid=87335 5* 03FLeckami21 5* (+0) 10 < 1629234494 884353 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-39-229.b49627.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1629234535 75909 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Heptor 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Matrixfuck Example.gif10]]" < 1629234542 159499 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1629234769 47574 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1629235022 763569 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87362&oldid=87359 5* 03Heptor 5* (+403) 10 > 1629235077 560270 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87363&oldid=87362 5* 03Heptor 5* (-156) 10 > 1629235286 429197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87364&oldid=87363 5* 03Heptor 5* (+81) 10 > 1629235385 957694 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87365&oldid=87364 5* 03Heptor 5* (+33) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629236136 56725 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87366&oldid=87365 5* 03Heptor 5* (+245) 10 > 1629236881 869533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87367&oldid=87366 5* 03Heptor 5* (+433) 10 > 1629236995 420999 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87368&oldid=87367 5* 03Heptor 5* (+131) 10/* Implementation notes */ > 1629237113 460216 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87369&oldid=87368 5* 03Heptor 5* (+36) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629237191 9417 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079f87m4atttaaaou;14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87370&oldid=87273 5* 03TheJonyMyster 5* (-10) 10toggles implies on or off, can probably be cleaned up still though > 1629237245 639853 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87371&oldid=87369 5* 03Heptor 5* (-31) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629237488 897251 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87372&oldid=87371 5* 03Heptor 5* (+290) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629237535 630948 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Backrooms14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87373&oldid=87343 5* 03Salpynx 5* (+11) 10/* turing */ 'truth-machine' is what this program form is known as > 1629237578 904606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87374&oldid=87372 5* 03Heptor 5* (+17) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629237776 294749 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87375&oldid=87374 5* 03Heptor 5* (+106) 10/* Implementation notes */ > 1629237800 361046 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87376&oldid=87375 5* 03Heptor 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629237852 419693 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87377&oldid=87376 5* 03Heptor 5* (-2) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629237868 608079 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87378&oldid=87377 5* 03Heptor 5* (+8) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629237978 654921 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87379&oldid=87378 5* 03Heptor 5* (+57) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629238015 368593 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87380&oldid=87379 5* 03Heptor 5* (-57) 10/* Syntax */ > 1629238062 578670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87381&oldid=87380 5* 03Heptor 5* (+93) 10/* Notes */ > 1629239910 361572 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87382&oldid=87381 5* 03Heptor 5* (+313) 10 < 1629240008 597504 :BusyBeaver42!~BusyBeave@c-73-37-38-15.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1629240180 886116 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :someone's new online befunge interpreter https://tjol.eu/rfunge/ < 1629240196 458620 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :written in rust, aims for 98 > 1629240337 275939 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87383&oldid=87382 5* 03Heptor 5* (-119) 10/* Implementation notes */ > 1629240692 660449 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87384&oldid=87383 5* 03Heptor 5* (+56) 10/* Notes */ > 1629241620 606872 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:DoggyDogWhirl14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87385&oldid=87079 5* 03DoggyDogWhirl 5* (+3130) 10Added TwoBrainsfuck > 1629241997 730304 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87386&oldid=87384 5* 03Heptor 5* (+130) 10/* Notes */ > 1629242011 431008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Matrixfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87387&oldid=87386 5* 03Heptor 5* (-8) 10 < 1629243156 830042 :warlock!~warlock@kryogeniks.dev NICK :identify < 1629243186 980135 :identify!~warlock@kryogeniks.dev NICK :Guest5396 < 1629243192 46258 :Guest5396!~warlock@kryogeniks.dev NICK :double < 1629243209 347374 :double!~warlock@kryogeniks.dev QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1629243959 306575 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.242.147 QUIT :Quit: quit