> 1630886621 275909 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Xorol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87923&oldid=86296 5* 03Xorol 5* (+210) 10Added some info
< 1630891603 183868 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe then he'e not automated but manned
> 1630896417 967201 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Grue14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87924&oldid=87912 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+28) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1630896427 919102 :Guest65!~Guest65@240f:d2:824d:1:68e0:8e6f:9c3:2cd7 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest65
< 1630896433 850243 :Guest65!~Guest65@240f:d2:824d:1:68e0:8e6f:9c3:2cd7 PART :#esolangs
> 1630896528 596751 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Trivial brainfuck substitution14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87925&oldid=83915 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-53) 10/* Syntax */
< 1630897284 281203 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :hah, few months ago I said "I should made a universal translator between all those brainfuck substitutions"
< 1630897296 820897 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :and someone already made it in that wiki page
< 1630897346 262677 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wait, nope, it's just plain bf interpreter
< 1630897375 44751 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I imagine a translator could go fetch the wiki pate, 
< 1630897393 348532 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :*... page, find the instructions table and replace them automatically
< 1630901405 708040 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630901423 645449 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1630901461 427179 :src!~src@user/src QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630901697 857142 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630901723 647057 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1630901767 499091 :velik!~velik@nakilon.pro QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1630904097 757742 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630904416 877567 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1630907997 472853 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630908014 413602 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1630908285 331019 :velik!~velik@nakilon.pro JOIN #esolangs * :velik
< 1630908597 455173 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630908615 577409 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1630910969 380995 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: but nobody uses the substitutions other than brainfuck, Ook!, and the two or three that encode brainfuck with repetitions of one byte
< 1630911159 133787 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought Chromium OS is something good, because there is no way to install anything in it, you only use docker, so it's so safe...
< 1630911227 506468 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :until I launched a container from another container mounting the docker socket in both, and server just stopped responding, disks were spinning like mad and even serial console didn't work
< 1630911272 875239 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :this stupid container overrated container thing
< 1630911342 524935 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah I know that thing that I'm trying to build are not what people are supposed to try to build but I was told it's all so reliable...
< 1630911352 466828 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :*things
< 1630913504 331781 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.17 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1630915549 385102 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok docker sockets were not a reason of hanging; it hanged again _-- maybe it's what happens to Chromium OS when it's out of RAM or idk, it just dies
< 1630915597 622063 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat
< 1630915767 615015 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1630915848 478001 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.17 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630916315 330965 :velik!~velik@nakilon.pro QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630917521 758041 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks like the linux thing called "oom killer" kills a process but the system goes insane anyway and does not recover
< 1630917553 528234 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630917807 889532 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1630917850 329455 :imode!~imode@user/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1630917852 906804 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does anyone happen to know where I can find human-readable info on how to interpret a robots.txt file? 
< 1630918140 533781 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :IIRC it's barely standardized
< 1630918207 369745 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.4.1.1 has some info but not muc
< 1630918599 514977 :velik!~velik@nakilon.pro JOIN #esolangs * :velik
< 1630918861 398554 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol I did "echo 2 > /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory"  like this guy proposed https://serverfault.com/a/142003/67097 and now I can't spawn any process even while it's 500 mb of free ram
< 1630919008 995896 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :and now I can't even revert it because sudo sh -c "echo 1 >..." emits -bash: fork: Cannot allocate memory
< 1630919050 890473 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: so use the kill builtin
< 1630919057 633591 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is why kill is a builtin command in bash
< 1630919064 994691 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :kill what?
< 1630919115 270908 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, that's the hard part
< 1630919128 382343 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs : $ ps 
< 1630919128 429221 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :-bash: fork: Cannot allocate memory
< 1630919133 660594 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah
< 1630919140 469276 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :might be easier to reboot in practice
< 1630919143 294454 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :and this was just before that
< 1630919144 53117 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :$ free -h
< 1630919144 108736 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
< 1630919144 126140 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mem:          982Mi       290Mi       382Mi       1.0Mi       308Mi       544Mi
< 1630919222 800523 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :Chromium OS is just broken crap; I guess Google does not care about the scenarios when somethings runs out of memory -- they just stop the machine and spin up a bigger one, and probably expect me to do the same
< 1630919231 354940 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :on every single task
< 1630919282 11098 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :gotta switch to ubuntu
< 1630919839 259955 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does bash have a `readlink`-capable builtin? I imagine you could make a poor man's ps out of looking at /proc/pid/exe that way. Hmm, apparently not.
< 1630919890 515524 :velik!~velik@nakilon.pro QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1630920103 454921 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` for p in /proc/[0-9]*/stat; do read -d'\t' pid prog rest <$p; echo $pid $prog; done
< 1630920104 578125 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :10 (writeback) \ 11 (kcompactd0) \ 12 (crypto) \ 13 (kintegrityd) \ 14 (bioset) \ 15 (kblockd) \ 16 (kworker/0:1) \ 18 (kswapd0) \ 1 (init) \ 2 (kthreadd) \ 3 (ksoftirqd/0) \ 44 (bioset) \ 45 (kworker/0:1H) \ 48 (cat) \ 49 (`) \ 4 (kworker/0:0) \ 50 (`) \ 51 (`) \ 5 (kworker/0:0H) \ 6 (kworker/u2:0) \ 7 (lru-add-drain) \ 8 (kdevtmpfs) \ 9 (oom_reaper)
< 1630920115 726437 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel like that probably maybe needs no processes.
< 1630920202 524380 :velik!~velik@nakilon.pro JOIN #esolangs * :velik
< 1630920292 800579 :velik!~velik@nakilon.pro QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630920391 41122 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I think that will still fork, even if not exec
< 1630920393 617422 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I'm not sure
< 1630921359 995393 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, well, from https://0x0.st/-wu8.txt I think not.
< 1630921493 823262 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Interestingly, repeating `readlink /proc/self` on my work laptop increments the resulting number by pretty much exactly 13 for each iteration, which makes me think there's some sort of an extra per-command or per-prompt hook set up somewhere.
< 1630921654 706204 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.17 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1630921656 948847 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: cat /proc/*/forks gives the number of processes/threads created total on the system since boot, I think
< 1630921664 570165 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or at least the user-space ones\
< 1630921700 210046 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can use taht to detect if anything has forked, which is useful to iterate through all processes eg. in /proc and be sure that you haven't missed any, eg. to kill all processes by a user
< 1630921705 139922 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.17 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, does that count both fork and clone? there are two ways to create processes nowadays
< 1630921711 14016 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.17 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think Linux doesn't have a spawn in kernel-space)
< 1630921712 543267 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yes, it counts clone
< 1630921719 60224 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I checked that once in the kernel source code
< 1630921725 400880 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course things may have changed since\
< 1630921731 203764 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :let me look up the exact name of the file
< 1630921880 214353 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's a "processes N" field in /proc/stat at least.
< 1630922046 376340 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, the filename is /proc/stat
< 1630922049 749974 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I guess https://0x0.st/-wuT.txt is more direct evidence of not creating new processes.
< 1630922053 225692 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you were faster than it took me to look it up
< 1630922076 452775 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it was among my emails, but was spoilered so a plain text search didn't find it easily)
< 1630922088 66298 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's not "forks"
< 1630922102 54885 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yep
< 1630922113 844883 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it's a 64-bit counter, so it can't overflow either
< 1630922188 96473 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :mostly though I think if my computer hangs swapping and can't start a new process, I just reboot it
< 1630922188 257900 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :For some reason PIDs that are >= 2^16 just feel weird.
< 1630922221 529410 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(possibly reboot with more and more rescue options if it happens right after boot with no chance to interrupt)
< 1630922306 466642 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: it feels good, it means we finally managed to shed another piece of historical accident that held us back. there's still a control somewhere in /sys or /proc to limit pids if you don't like it though.
< 1630923276 302644 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1630923656 893100 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1630924884 296785 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river
< 1630925101 259226 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630925120 644661 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1630925930 746105 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him
< 1630926937 360722 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1630927611 384738 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer JOIN #esolangs dyeplexer :t b k ky jt h bc
< 1630927782 497275 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630927921 505216 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him
< 1630929863 926710 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :interesting, 2FA not via SMS but via phone call that you don't need to accept
< 1630929873 81408 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :you just type the last 4 digits of the number
< 1630929893 994223 :nakilon!~nakilon@user/nakilon PRIVMSG #esolangs :so they own 10000 phone numbers just for that
< 1630930177 333634 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv
< 1630932036 190573 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.17 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe they're just spoofing the number?
< 1630932155 338099 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630932297 334391 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer JOIN #esolangs dyeplexer :t b k ky jt h bc
< 1630935719 335651 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630936399 586639 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 JOIN #esolangs * :the chaotic arseniiv
< 1630936804 333291 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630936922 337800 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 JOIN #esolangs * :Everything
< 1630939230 689462 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :"DPI SET to 67 x 34 (wanted 96 x 96)" is what I get when attaching to an xpra session, wonder what's up with that.
< 1630939311 216416 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Tried to do `--dpi=96` on both `xpra start` on the remote side and `xpra attach` on the local side, but still.
< 1630940109 154674 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1630940474 894455 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1630940499 252222 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nakilon: well duh, it's easy to own a lot of phone numbers if you release a popular app that people will install on their smartphones
< 1630940522 471643 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :especially since many of those people will have their phones always on and will install just about anything
< 1630940547 340290 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river
< 1630940609 582758 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course any other app on the same smartphone that has access to your call logs could spoof that part of the authentication as well
< 1630940622 716063 :src!~src@user/src JOIN #esolangs src :realname
< 1630940645 207215 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Client Quit
< 1630940715 639685 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesn't even have to be that same app, it could be another app that's a game with shiny colored balls and fewer ads than usual that they control that gives them the phone numbers
< 1630940720 653887 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river
< 1630940736 767534 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630940753 670579 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river
< 1630941233 313531 :imode!~imode@user/imode JOIN #esolangs imode :imode
< 1630941454 2722 :hendursa1!~weechat@user/hendursaga QUIT :Quit: hendursa1
< 1630941496 627155 :hendursaga!~weechat@user/hendursaga JOIN #esolangs hendursaga :weechat
< 1630941994 887014 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630942060 227180 :callforjudgement!~ais523@213.205.242.235 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1630942060 705011 :ais523!~ais523@109.249.181.17 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1630942077 507387 :callforjudgement!~ais523@213.205.242.235 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1630942104 642512 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1630943804 198485 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1630945060 477655 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630945071 317138 :chiselfu1e!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
> 1630945899 19947 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07School14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87926&oldid=85635 5* 03AceKiron 5* (+82) 10
> 1630946567 435852 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Heavpoot14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87927&oldid=85250 5* 03Martsadas 5* (+111) 10
< 1630947869 739728 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot being a pita is no news
< 1630947870 114429 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: and china could not copy usa technology and flaunt it just keeps on growing. am a bit puzzled about why you asked
< 1630947904 483615 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: why, I didn’t ask anything (yet?)
< 1630947904 805655 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: what is remarkable, i think. mostly common lisp and scheme implementations ( tm))
< 1630947938 862137 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I need to write some lispy language sometime, yeah
< 1630947955 227259 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that sounded like pure propaganda
< 1630947971 660746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(fungot, I mean)
< 1630947971 893476 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you're suggesting cluttering the namespace with names like fnord and fnord
< 1630947991 282861 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: okay, no need to get insulting
< 1630947991 584291 :fungot!fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: just seems silly to construct a list; it does whatever the code surrounding the ( x y) x y
< 1630948029 563725 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something far from CL and Scheme, just using S-expressions for its syntax and maybe using symbols, though good symbols might ask their full CL treatment which isn’t easy for a language developer
< 1630948052 516233 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you're suggesting cluttering the namespace with names like fnord and fnord => lol
< 1630948171 865601 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I agree it’s silly to construct a list; either it’s already there in platonic sense, or it’s nowhere at all, in which case trying to construct it would be in vain
< 1630948291 968759 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it’s already there, one needs to just fetch it with (get-list-from-outer-planes <name of the list>)
< 1630948335 976907 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it doesn’t have any names, then I guess we’re broke
< 1630948383 321759 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :either it’s already there in platonic sense, or it’s nowhere at all => though I’m unnecessarily classical here. Maybe there is a third option
< 1630948744 942809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: "what is a list" has the potential to unfold into all philosophy ever conceived and some new one
< 1630948789 573784 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it better do!
< 1630948814 525858 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or did
< 1630948822 224810 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :at some point you'll have to make a list of possible interpretations
< 1630948828 260993 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :just to keep track of it all
< 1630948868 497332 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(not circular; you can make a list without fully understanding what it is)
< 1630948899 276718 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lists usually require infinity; they don't trivially always exist. https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/free%20monoid explains the details.
< 1630948972 305233 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Saying "lists require infinity" sounds like saying "natural numbers require infinity".
< 1630948989 352532 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Where I think it's maybe more like, the style you use to talk about natural numbers requires infinity, or something.
< 1630949041 445146 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :In Haskell lists are certainly not free monoids (either in the standard sense or in the Haskell sense, where those are also distinct).
< 1630949047 270671 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe there's a more grammatical way to put it. FinSet is a topos, so it's not possible to constructively tell whether or not infinite objects really exist; we have to assume them.
< 1630949057 26876 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: fortunately we can justify this claim on a ridiculously informal level: Have you ever looked at the number 8 from the side? ;-)
< 1630949165 598118 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's well-established that the Peano naturals stop at 88.
< 1630949177 571534 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think something like shachaf too. For example, though I don’t know ultrafinitist constructions, we could imagine lists of length more than N fail to exist, so cons or ++ are partial but for some reason we can’t stumble on that fact
< 1630949184 110171 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, 88
< 1630949233 641991 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Man, "what if sufficiently big numbers don't exist? we'd never know it" is a funny take on ultrafinitism.
< 1630949256 702248 :Koen_!~Koen@96.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esolangs * :Koen
< 1630949308 718348 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you'll need imaginary numbers then
< 1630949318 967817 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that you imagine to exist
< 1630949345 295659 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :The thing that makes it funny is that it still takes some platonic notion of existence, and imagines that it applies to some numbers, and not others. I hadn't really thought of that perspective.
< 1630949410 777549 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not even being finitist here. It's a variation on Skolem's paradox. In order to talk about existence of objects, we need a formal mathematical logic for those objects. For questions of size/cardinality/measurement, set theory is traditional. But constructive set theory is confined within the rules of topoi, so if a topos lacks some classical property, then the property didn't exist universally in the first place.
< 1630949440 473199 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Just like with Skolem's paradox, we might have taken some property of Set (say, that there's natural numbers or free monoids) and imagined that it must be universal, even though some topoi like FinSet refute it.
< 1630949450 476674 :src!~src@user/src QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1630949458 769635 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<int-e> that you imagine to exist => hm then we may end up with an existence hierarchy
< 1630949464 965046 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was talking about arseniiv's thing.
< 1630949476 999187 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :But, hmm, I can talk about the existence of objects without a formal mathematical logic for those objects.
< 1630949516 948150 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess. Maths just makes it easy: Every describable object exists, except for those which would contradict themselves if they existed.
< 1630949541 849173 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Would you say that existence is a property that some things have and some things don't, or that everything exists?
< 1630949575 559950 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd say that "existence" is a linguistic meme, a language-game which has a faulty assumption about the nature of reality.
< 1630949631 671553 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there were some logics with two sets of quantifiers, the usual ∀ and ∃ and then “outer” ones which have strange semantics
< 1630949660 378082 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, Internal Set Theory?
< 1630949695 36613 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a quantified variable in those runs over inexisting things. Don’t remember if it’s connected to IST
< 1630949707 711401 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ow, not inexisting things, but all things
< 1630949734 898200 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that was for modal logics or free logics, hm
< 1630949798 344758 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1630949845 377719 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"real thought" is a nice oxymoron
< 1630949845 512565 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I saw that here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-free/#Meinong
< 1630949857 665836 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river JOIN #esolangs river :river
< 1630949984 946117 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :once I thought some kind of free logic would be what I wanted an ideal classical logic to be, yet it failed when I read this article: all kinds seem to have their flaws
< 1630950052 277483 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hopefully a type-theoretical framework is good. At least I haven’t seen someone discussing flaws like those for it to have
< 1630950114 654954 :Koen_!~Koen@96.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's one of those "there are 15 types of logic, but they all have their flaws. i'm going to develop a new logic that unifies them all" -> "there are 16 types of logic, but they all have their flaws"
< 1630950164 381575 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But it makes for a great story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_narrans
< 1630950200 90427 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: The "field with one element" doesn't exist, because of the definition of fields. Nonetheless it has pages on WP and nLab, because there is a field-with-one-element-shaped-hole in projective geometry.
< 1630950218 272199 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"It's well-established that the Peano naturals stop at 88." => I don't think that can satisfy the axioms
< 1630950249 146573 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :When combined with the fact that the category of fields is disconnected (fields of different characteristic aren't related to each other), it suggests that fields are an incomplete notion; we have the wrong definition!
< 1630950257 635818 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: that just means that the theory is flawed model of reality
< 1630950263 231460 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: yeah I agree it should exist in some fashion
< 1630950273 548335 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the field F₁, I mean
< 1630950337 321591 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"a quantified variable in those runs over inexisting things" => is that second order logic?
< 1630950368 947682 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: oh, third possibility: does Schrödinger's cat exist?
< 1630950407 896303 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hypothetically speaking, of course ;)
< 1630950411 504292 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: no, that one is one-sorted
< 1630950473 311623 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: unlikely. Schrödinger died in 1961, his cat would have died and decomposed by now unless he got it mummified or put it on a relativistic speed rocket or something
< 1630950498 101121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: seems fair
< 1630950528 858822 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it, I mean the paradox itself, does in global culture, but as of the cat itself, I’d think decoherence theory gives us a very tight estimate on the time the cat’s still in superposition, like attoseconds I think
< 1630950551 122688 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh my poor grammar
< 1630950714 266383 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what I wodner is, if the poison gas is released in the box to kill Schrödinger's cat, wouldn't it also kill whoever opens the box when they open it?
< 1630950717 362795 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 JOIN #esolangs delta23 :delta23__
< 1630950759 612505 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess they could be careful and use a chemistry lab smoke hood or something
< 1630950766 573842 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1630950810 408969 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm what if we call a Schrödinger’s cat any cat which lives in Schrödinger’s children’s homes as an unbreaking line, or a tree. Then this kind of a collective cat is probably still alive
< 1630950869 488538 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or if his children all disliked cats, then not
< 1630952239 422458 :dyeplexer!~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1630952338 42561 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1630953748 684595 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure if any cat would be willing to own the family that deliberately killed with 50% probability a previous cat just for a tought experiment
< 1630953770 459669 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they would certainly just pick a better choice of servent
< 1630954182 377340 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him
< 1630954265 699206 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630956798 715636 :Koen_!~Koen@96.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1630959376 43515 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are there good aperiodic 1d tilesets?
< 1630959447 373258 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if so, either the matching rules should be quirky, or tiles should at least be nonconnected
< 1630959494 844880 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel it might end up not that hard to enforce for example 0 → 01, 1 → 10 blow-up rules
< 1630960226 455067 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: I don't think aperiodic 1d tilesets are possible
< 1630960255 501939 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :1d tiles just behave like regular languages
< 1630960287 311474 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1630960291 480746 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless perhaps it's some weird non-measurable ones, but even so I doubt they can force aperiodic
< 1630960312 281974 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can do an aperiodic 1d tiling, but there's no tile set that forces aperiodicity
< 1630960327 664965 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs ::(
< 1630960364 314759 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :+finite
< 1630960366 967507 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how to make a connection with regular languages clearer?
< 1630960381 274747 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :each tile is a transition from one state to another
< 1630960383 527018 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :finite, yeah, I wouldn’t want an infinite tileset
< 1630960383 876330 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: it's quite literally an NFA
< 1630960395 470567 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmmmhmhmhm
< 1630960482 998649 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see, even if a tile has many holes and connects with many previous and following tiles, it still would be a finite number of neighborhoods allowed for all of them
< 1630960494 464885 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that’s sad
< 1630960568 184846 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's interesting
< 1630960585 748174 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :so for wang tiles to work, the pattern needs height
< 1630960592 393661 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that increases without bound
< 1630960604 838884 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :any finite height strip would just be equivalent to a 1d tileset
< 1630960625 200059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :um wait
< 1630960646 293782 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah at least this 1d thing gives an insight (if it does)
< 1630960712 204543 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what if you have two tiles, one is the set of rationals between 0 and sqrt(3), the other the set of all irrationals between 0 and 1? 
< 1630960722 992577 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :one is the set of rationals between 0 and sqrt(3), the other the set of all rationals between 0 and 1? 
< 1630960726 478967 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no 
< 1630960729 343793 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :argh
< 1630960735 998873 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :one is the set of rationals between 0 and sqrt(3), the other the set of all irrationals between 0 and 1? 
< 1630960766 266814 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :then you'll have to overlay the two tiles such that the first kind repeats with period sqrt(3), the second with period 1
< 1630960770 715687 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course it's cheating
< 1630960785 368916 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you should try to explain why that problem can't happen without cheating
< 1630960796 802478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait that doesn't work
< 1630960802 293546 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you have to be more evil than that
< 1630960868 141722 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it has to be the set of rational linear combinations of 1 and sqrt(3) between 0 and sqrt(3) half-inclusive, and the set of numbers between 0 and 1 that are linear independent from {1,sqrt(3)}
< 1630960894 362874 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630960901 523950 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :well there is the projection trick
< 1630960940 448927 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://sig3.ecanews.org/isac2010/lectures/06a_fujita_tilings_a.pdf slide 13 14
< 1630960970 38484 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :you start with a slope of irrational gradiant and project it down
< 1630961038 292357 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: sure, but in 1D that'll just lead to an aperiodic tiling
< 1630961046 667594 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :not a tileset that forces it
< 1630961744 546543 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1630961752 419798 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1630961901 459438 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1630962009 457051 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :can a PDA output an aperiodic string?
< 1630962082 643085 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :PDA doesn't output a string, it only accepts or rejects a string
< 1630962098 914487 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i seee...
< 1630962101 805811 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I suppose you could easily define an output version (pushdown transducer?)
< 1630962126 580305 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe it has to be context sensitive
< 1630962169 850087 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: You can stick to natural numbers or integers; for example, if you let X = { n | n >= 0 such that n can be written in base 4 using only digits 0 and 1}, then {X u X+2} = 4X+{0,1,2,3}, so you can tile N, and {X u X-2} = 4X+{-2,-1,0,1} so you can tile Z. Obviously those are aperiodic
< 1630962180 45588 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway i think it could output a nonperiodic string
< 1630962199 877018 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can use the stack to count so you could do like ABBAAABBBBAAAAABBBBBB
< 1630962220 159156 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :and there is no bound to the stack depth
< 1630962274 537279 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(so infinite tiles are a problem)
< 1630962329 662011 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :keegan, oh good point! i was overlooking that completely
< 1630962355 619494 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'd have to formalize it to be sure though
< 1630962364 454133 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe it's not so easy to count because you lose the count as you consume it
< 1630962458 307987 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the pumping lemma for PDAs means you can always have long stretches of periodic substrings...
< 1630962462 591882 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :remember also there is a difference in power between deterministic and nondeterministic PDA (unlike for finite automata or for turing machines)
< 1630962475 824298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(assuming it accepts strings of arbitrary length)
< 1630962503 730635 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: infinite tiles are a problem for sure, I think using disconnected tiles we could force using them like keegan’s ABBAAABBBB: 1 2 3 4 etc., something like making them each 0, 1, 2, 3, … holes and carefully assigning distances
< 1630962535 872990 :keegan!~beehive@li521-214.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :(fwiw i wasn't paying attention to the earlier tiling discussion)
< 1630962557 952470 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was about if I can make a finite 1d nonperiodic tileset
< 1630962564 943287 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: what I have is similar in spirit, really; I just find it cute to make it work with a single tile (though that means you have to keep track of the positioning of the tile for "aperiodicity")
< 1630962617 167258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but to my mind that makes sense: there's no placement of tiles that is repeated periodically)
< 1630962617 375521 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I think I saw that tile somewhere, even, if I infer its construction right (I skimmed what you wrote)
< 1630962635 874177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: it's reminiscent of the cantor set
< 1630962783 103210 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: something like p-adically? Oh I guess I should just read in
< 1630962939 917527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> fix (\x -> 'X':tail (x >>= \c -> [c,c,'.','.']))
< 1630962941 577557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : "XX..XX..........XX..XX..........................................XX..XX........
< 1630962977 16107 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm wait why use 4 but not 3?
< 1630963081 931105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :with digits 0 and 1? that would leave a gap of size 1 near the beginning: XX.XX.... etc.
< 1630963086 47887 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and nothing to fill it
< 1630963110 556549 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, I see, we can’t use just 1
< 1630963126 180971 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and using digits 0 and 2 confuses me, but I imagine it still doesn't work
< 1630963219 254375 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean we can take X.X...X.X.........X.X...X.X[...] and shift it by one, and that will result in XXXX..XXXX........XXXX..XXXX[...] and now we have chunks of length 4 and some gaps of length 2
< 1630963231 482096 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in contrast, base 4 just works
< 1630963265 283218 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :-X- -X- ---   --- -X- ---   --- --- ---     --- --- ---   --- -X- ---   --- --- ---     --- --- ---   --- --- ---   --- --- --- <- with 1 in ternary
< 1630963294 963156 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah 4 with 0 and 1 looks more comfortable
< 1630963299 598425 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically by virtue of {0,1,2,3} = {0,1}+{0,2}, where {0,1} are used as digits for the tiles and {0,2} as offsets for shifting the tiles
< 1630963351 926793 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or, for covering the integers, {-2,-1,0,1} = {0,1}+{-2,0}
< 1630963413 322866 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how I like simple solutions
< 1630963656 699538 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hah, how about this abstraction as an exercise: "Find a subset X of N={0,1,...} such that the map (x,y) |-> x+2y is a bijection between XxX and N."
< 1630963785 58108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The X from above is the only solution.)
< 1630963927 208492 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :would that just be the odd numbers?
< 1630963949 9722 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se JOIN #esolangs olsner :Got ZNC?
< 1630963978 621727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: sure, with infinite tiles it's easy. you can make one huge infinite tile with tiny holes far from each other, where the holes are randomly 2 or 3 long, plus small 2 and 3 long tiles to fill one of those holes, and that's aperiodic too.
< 1630963996 278820 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: no, then you don't get any even numbers as results... but also plenty of duplicates
< 1630964029 731987 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can make that work with just two tiles in fact, no need for different sizes of holes, just place the holes randomly
< 1630964033 501287 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: your tiles are effectively infinite too, by virtue of incommunserability
< 1630964082 333728 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: right. but as I said, I found the task of making a single tile work interesting
< 1630964099 769880 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630964100 556208 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :difficult problem :O
< 1630964141 615500 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1630964205 146608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: well, 0 needs to be in X (otherwise you don't get 0 as a sum)... 1 needs to be in X (otherwise you don't get 1). 2 can't be in the set (because otherwise we'd get 2+2*0 = 0+2*1... and it basically continues like that.
< 1630964246 987997 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: at some point you'll switch to binary representation.... and look at every second digit... and that's how you get to base 4.
< 1630964269 90022 :riv!~river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is so cool, it's like a sudoku or something
< 1630964297 106392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's doable, but it does require some technique and persistence.
< 1630964756 619839 :Corbin!~Corbin@c-73-67-140-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN #esolangs * :Corbin
< 1630965768 44411 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: see you tomorrow
< 1630967093 499026 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630967132 585167 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@136.169.204.31 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1630968133 657794 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN #esolangs APic :A. Pic. - my name since YOLD 3149
< 1630969735 400493 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1630969768 370529 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :Maeve Sproule