00:02:34 <Asteriska> reload and make sure that 38 there makes sense,
00:03:43 <nakilon> I still think sd should be []
00:04:56 <Asteriska> i thought it should be a list of numbers equal to the clean code, and be incremented every time the interpret loop is ran
00:06:32 <nakilon> the only thing to increment in a loop is what you already do in 41
00:07:17 <nakilon> sd isn't a part of the language machine -- it's just a storage used by user
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00:12:47 <nakilon> I guess specification does not say what if you goto out of bounds of the code so maybe change the "until (cp+=1) == cl" to "while (0...cl).include?(cp+=1)
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00:14:02 <nakilon> why is there a .bundle dir? is it how repl.it works?
00:17:45 <fizzie> How could you goto out of bounds? The only way to get a value to the D stack is to push the address of the previous instruction, and the only way to set the IP is to either increment it or pop it off of D.
00:19:20 <Asteriska> nakilon: ive installed highline, thats how replit deals with it
00:19:24 <nakilon> oh I thought you can push arbitrary value to D
00:20:22 <nakilon> I'm bad in reading specification today I guess
00:21:54 <fizzie> : without a matching ! does look a little underspecified. Judging from the BASIC code, it's probably just an error though.
00:22:14 <fizzie> Also didn't catch that :! can be nested.
00:22:52 <fizzie> Guess the BF translation wouldn't really go if they couldn't.
00:23:07 <nakilon> I guess I saw a word "corresponding" !
00:23:30 <nakilon> so it probably means they should be properly nested
00:25:22 <Asteriska> i think i just might move to gh with this one, shadow it from replit, and allow prs
00:25:25 <fizzie> Given the name of the language, I think it should also enforce a rule that the values on each stack must be monotonic, just to keep it challenging. ;)
00:26:20 <Asteriska> fizzie: you risk losing bf compatibility that way
00:28:25 <nakilon> fizzie https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hanoiing
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00:38:29 <Asteriska> here it should be https://github.com/foxsouns/HanoiL-Intp-Ruby
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00:44:22 <Asteriska> ive got to go, but if anybody has any ideas, please send an issue or pr to https://github.com/foxsouns/HanoiL-Intp-Ruby. ill set up discussions in a bit
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09:45:34 <nakilon> I just realised that has never seen a folder in bin
09:46:09 <nakilon> is there any reason why programs creates executables in, sometimes lots of executables but not joining them in a folder?
09:46:31 <nakilon> so instead of rasel-convert and rasel-ide it would be rasel/convert rasel/ide
09:47:13 <nakilon> yay, a grammar of a person who didn't yet fully wake up
09:51:41 <wib_jonas> nakilon: it's a unix convention, probably so that when the shell looks up a name the directories in PATH, it doesn't find directories too. you create folders under the lib and share and var directories instead.
09:55:05 <nakilon> I don't see a problem in looking up directories in PATH, it only has to be sure that the last path component is a file
09:55:25 <nakilon> though I'm not even sure it really does such checks if they just use only one depth level
09:57:17 <nakilon> and auto-complete should work fine as I imagine; you type "rase" press tab, get "rasel", press again, get all the binaries in bin/rasel/
11:00:50 <fizzie> Shells don't look up things with slashes in $PATH.
11:01:20 <fizzie> If you type `foo/bar`, the only executable it will run is $CWD/foo/bar, it won't look for a `foo` subdirectory in directories named in the path.
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11:02:54 <fizzie> From `man bash`: "If the command name contains no slashes, the shell attempts to locate it."
11:04:52 <fizzie> It's also the POSIXly correct behavior for `sh`: "If the command name does not contain any <slash> characters, the first successful step in the following sequence shall occur: [a whole bunch of search operations]. If the command name contains at least one <slash>, the shell shall execute the utility in a separate utility environment with actions equivalent to calling the execl() function defined
11:04:54 <fizzie> in the System Interfaces volume of POSIX.1-2017 with the path and arg0 arguments set to the command name, and the remaining execl() arguments set to the command arguments (if any) and the null terminator."
11:06:46 <fizzie> And the behavior for the `exec*p` series of functions that perform a path search: "If the file argument contains a <slash> character, the file argument shall be used as the pathname for this file. Otherwise, the path prefix for this file is obtained by a search of the directories passed as the environment variable PATH --"
11:10:22 <wib_jonas> fizzie: what's confusing is, HackEgo did use to look up executables with a slash in their name, and we used to have a $HACKENV/bin/le/rn executable that you could invoke by typing `le/rn in IRC message
11:11:37 <HackEso> ./ \ ../ \ rm@ \ rn@ \ rn_append@
11:11:48 <wib_jonas> but hg log says we used to have a /hackenv/bin/le
11:13:25 <wib_jonas> `run hg log --removed -T "{rev}:{date|shortdate}:{desc}\n" /hackenv/bin/le | sed s/ac/aс/ # /hackenv/bin/le was deleted the same day as it was created, so it was probably just a mistake
11:13:27 <HackEso> 6838:2016-02-14:<shaсhaf> rm bin/le \ 6837:2016-02-14:<shaсhaf> mkx bin/le//echo le
11:13:45 <wib_jonas> sorry then, probably HackEgo too only looked up executable names with a slash in its wd
11:14:15 <fizzie> Yeah, though I don't think it's impossible HackEso's command execution semantics have been... unconventional.
11:14:49 <wib_jonas> that was in 2016, so HackEgo before HackEso, but sure
11:15:19 <wib_jonas> I was wondering if it would special case a starting backtick followed by a space
11:15:32 <wib_jonas> ` # but it seems it doesn't do so, that just always fails
11:17:30 <wib_jonas> and maybe special case backtick followed by slash too
11:17:52 <wib_jonas> just backtick followed by slash followed by space
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12:09:04 <nakilon> they uncover that the "free tier" does not work because the disk is of some another type; and still ignore everything I say about the CPU time
12:17:11 <wib_jonas> on https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2021-09.html#ley whether one of the usual representations of GF(2**8) is the same as the IOCCC representation. David Madore talks about the IOCCC representation in https://twitter.com/gro_tsen/status/1437520279136346114 . I believe the answer is no.
12:27:45 <nakilon> I mean it's just another try of that support guy to "explain" the bill -- he says that my disk is out of Free Tier, but it's just 20% of the bill
12:28:22 <nakilon> it's like I'm in fucking court and he uses all the possible bullshit manipulations to falsely accuse me
12:29:12 <nakilon> in using >720 hours in any insane way like "we have more than 30 days in a month" and now "you was charged because of the wrong disk" -- I don't care that I was charged for disk, it's just $2, tell me about almost $10 already for the CPU
12:29:48 <nakilon> if he won't enable his brain I gotta move to Yandex Cloud
12:30:38 <nakilon> also I was billed in August because it uncovers that e2-micro were not in Free Tier in August yet and I'm not the one who was confused https://www.reddit.com/r/googlecloud/comments/oo55s1/upgraded_free_tier_f1micro_vm_to_an_e2micro/
12:31:10 <nakilon> also there are people in that thread who were charged for disk too because the default disk type was not from free tier
12:31:38 <nakilon> but it's still not a big deal compared to this CPU nonsense
12:44:44 <esolangs> [[Help.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88619 * WhyNot? * (+605) Created page with "This language is created by [[User:WhyNot?]]. Work in progress!!! Based off Assembly. == Syntax == There are infinite memory slots, which each can hold 1 byte of information...."
12:45:11 <esolangs> [[User:WhyNot?]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88620&oldid=88272 * WhyNot? * (+12)
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13:25:19 <nakilon> so my latest understanding now that they don't care about the CPU load at all
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13:25:30 <nakilon> and bill you for 24 hours a day
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13:25:57 <nakilon> still does not fully sum up, anyway
13:33:19 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88621&oldid=88602 * PixelatedStarfish * (+206) /* Hello World */
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14:45:22 <Asteriska> decided to come here so that communications would be quicker
14:47:34 <Asteriska> to anyone else interested: im working on an interpreting an old as dirt esolang at https://github.com/foxsouns/HanoiL-Intp-Ruby with n akilon there
14:48:01 <Asteriska> esolang in question is Hanoi Love, made for quickbasic in 2001
14:51:19 <int-e> `relcome Asteriska
14:51:22 <HackEso> Asteriska: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:53:23 <int-e> Just demonstrating that the channel isn't dead :P (It isn't, you can check the logs. But it's not the busiest of channels either.)
14:56:33 <nakilon> Asteriska I'm partially afk
14:56:52 <int-e> Ah https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hanoi_Love exists, though it's more of a stub
14:57:56 <int-e> Oh it has an interpreter in QuickBasic... fun.
14:58:18 <int-e> I think that qualifies as esoteric these days.
14:58:56 <Asteriska> although theres no js interpreter for quickbasic yet
14:59:23 <Asteriska> (well, technically theres one, but its only been put up to spec enough to run qb's snake)
14:59:48 <nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QB64
14:59:50 <int-e> That was a pretty nice game.
14:59:54 <nakilon> 1.5 / February 28, 2021; 7 months ago
15:00:25 <Asteriska> im stuck on chromeos and linux occasionally: it's not an option for me
15:01:03 <nakilon> OSMicrosoft Windows, Linux, macOS
15:01:46 <Asteriska> made the assumption that it was win only because the wikipedia page mentioned vista :p
15:01:51 <nakilon> https://github.com/QB64Team/qb64/releases
15:02:50 <nakilon> "QB64 can also use DLL libraries for Windows and C++ headers with a DECLARE LIBRARY block. Users can also access C header files to run C functions."
15:02:56 <nakilon> time to go back to the roots
15:04:50 <Asteriska> im stuck on chromeos for the time being: my normal cpu's out of commission atm :(
15:05:43 <Asteriska> but what matters is that somebody involved can finally check the original interpreter's specs
15:06:17 <Asteriska> like what happens when you under/overflow? and how the fuck does stack d work?
15:06:21 <nakilon> have you run the bundle exec ruby test.rb? does it pass?
15:06:46 <int-e> Oh no, I have qbasic but no snake.bas
15:06:47 <nakilon> you can continue from there, implementing the rest of instructions and add corresponding tests
15:07:18 <int-e> (I could dig it up. I remember modifying it so the snakes grow longer)
15:07:49 <nakilon> d is a storage for goto addresses -- see how echo stores the position to then return to on the !
15:12:01 <nakilon> so you do smth like: when ?' then ss[st].push cp
15:12:02 <Asteriska> had to reinstall minitest-around via replit's way
15:12:06 <wib_jonas> int-e: right, plus we didn't welcome Asteriska yesterday
15:12:45 <nakilon> when ?! then cp = ss[st].pop
15:13:24 <nakilon> do you mean you have no ruby installed in your chrome os?
15:14:10 <Asteriska> ive been working off of replit, this isnt my device so i cant turn on crostini or use crouton
15:14:42 <Asteriska> well, not explicitly mine: it's shared
15:15:33 <Asteriska> anyways i will mirror any changes to the github, and vice versa for the replit
15:15:41 <nakilon> btw probably you can also push the cp to any of 4 stacks, you just won't be able to then pop that value in a way to assign it back to cp
15:16:53 <nakilon> the damn GCP provide free of charge shell with 0.6gb RAM and 1 core
15:17:22 <nakilon> you can ssh to it right in a browser without creating a VM instance
15:18:10 <nakilon> no charge, it's made for emergency purposes so you can do things around your cloud, using a fully functional linux right in your browser
15:18:18 <nakilon> i.e. accessing from any device
15:18:50 <nakilon> just need to authorize in GCP and create the project in the first place, attaching the credit card, etc., it just won't cost anything if you use it only for that
15:19:12 <Asteriska> i cant use it, not using my personal account so it decides to nix it
15:19:46 <nakilon> there is also something new I didn't see before https://cloud.google.com/shell
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15:20:21 <nakilon> looks like vs code I suppose
15:21:08 <nakilon> it's integrated with GCP's code repositories system that is analogue to github, just not for accepting public PRs and stuff; anyway it's an IDE
15:21:42 <Asteriska> replit is an ide, with integration with gh
15:22:11 <Asteriska> it seems to work fairly well, with a little bit of sandboxing to work around
15:22:18 <nakilon> and the shell I talked about initially is this I suppose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Cloud_Shell
15:22:40 <Asteriska> yeah, picked that up from a simple google search of gcp
15:22:42 <nakilon> it's just a machine with no ports opened except of ssh for your connection
15:23:22 <Asteriska> id love to mess with that, but my org. account blocks it
15:23:33 <nakilon> I was wrong about the RAM amount
15:24:17 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88625&oldid=88621 * PixelatedStarfish * (+4) /* Commands */
15:27:35 <Asteriska> heroku provides 25mb ram and iirc up to 64gb storage, over 20 instances
15:29:55 <Asteriska> does seem to be a limit on hours of use per month
15:30:05 <sknebel> oracle cloud also has some free tier. but it's, you know, oracle
15:32:04 <nakilon> when I last checked heroku wasn't for the 24/7 launched servers
15:32:26 <nakilon> it just allocated resources to handle web requests
15:36:01 <Asteriska> fuck it im signing up and investigating
15:36:01 <nakilon> Yandex Cloud has only the serverless part for free for now https://cloud.yandex.ru/docs/billing/concepts/serverless-free-tier
15:36:32 <nakilon> I will probably migrate once they make free VMs
15:37:32 <nakilon> the difference from GCP is that they don't have the VMs with terabytes of RAM and petabytes of disks and I won't need them any way obviously
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15:38:27 <nakilon> and not much documentation
15:38:53 <Asteriska> heroku seems promising for simple programming stuff
15:39:32 <nakilon> we also have two other clouds -- from Mail.ru and from Sberbank but they won't have free tiers
15:40:12 <Asteriska> ive got ~three bucks on a prepaid debit card
15:40:28 <nakilon> mailru is small and sberbank is just a bank, I will never trust them
15:41:14 <nakilon> they develop their cloud on a machine learning hype selling those GPU clusters
15:41:19 <Asteriska> with the yandex option, does what exactly does serverless entail
15:42:23 <nakilon> Asteriska serverless means you host your applications on the machines you don't access in a traditional way like ssh
15:42:31 <nakilon> they connect and scale stuff for you
15:42:58 <Asteriska> seems like heroku is the same way :<
15:44:01 <nakilon> yeah it's kind of overkill for start, like instead of having a small server always on that handles your web request instantly it would launch the whole new linux machine to process that single request and then shutdown -- all in serveral minutes with a huge lag
15:44:41 <nakilon> but when you are a huge consumer you allocate a ton of instances in the scaling options so this stuff is always on and ready to process and isn't lagging too much
15:45:35 <Asteriska> im about to give up and just use copy.sh/x86
15:46:17 <nakilon> velik for example starts a new machine right now to respond
15:46:29 <velik> I was no rid only that, but it distinguishes ok functional with the style I now did around
15:47:05 <nakilon> it took him 12 seconds -- few seconds to start and few seconds to process the request, but if I configure it to have one instance on 24/7 it would be faster
15:50:36 <nakilon> actually the chat reply that velik does is a so called "Cloud Functions", not a "Cloud Run" so it's not really starting a fully new VM, it's something hybrid
15:52:20 <nakilon> it's limited to the chosen runtime, like a "ruby26" in this case, most of the file system is read-only, etc., but it responds faster than Cloud Run; still both are called "serverless"
15:58:05 <sknebel> oracle cloud is just plain linux VMs: https://docs.oracle.com/en-us/iaas/Content/FreeTier/freetier_topic-Always_Free_Resources.htm
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16:35:44 <Asteriska> oh my god i am going to choke the liberachat webclient
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16:36:45 <Asteriska> i see from the logs ive missed nothing except my abscense
16:40:26 <esolangs> [[Help.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88628&oldid=88627 * WhyNot? * (+144)
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17:24:20 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88630&oldid=88612 * Tomhe * (+46) /* The Standard Library */ more ops
17:30:19 <esolangs> [[Help.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88631&oldid=88629 * WhyNot? * (+70)
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17:34:03 <Asteriska> wow so many edits from whynot as of late
17:35:18 <Corbin> Unlike WP, there's no rule about batching edits and using the preview button, so some folks make lots of small edits in a row.
17:37:23 <fizzie> I have thought about adding a gentle suggestion about the preview button, mostly just because of the IRC thing. But it's unclear whether people would notice.
17:38:40 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88633&oldid=88625 * PixelatedStarfish * (-26) /* Commands */
17:39:06 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88634&oldid=88633 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* Commands */
17:39:22 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88635&oldid=88634 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1) /* Commands */
17:40:26 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88636&oldid=88635 * PixelatedStarfish * (+57) /* Commands */
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17:59:49 <nakilon> sknebel wow "18,000 GB hours per month for free" this sounds like 20 times larger than in GCP
17:59:59 <nakilon> though idk what's the performance of their CPU
18:01:47 <nakilon> fizzie try some CSS like this one https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Not_applicable to make them notice
18:03:16 <nakilon> oh probably OCPU is something like usual CPU core
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19:03:18 <esolangs> [[Help.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88641&oldid=88640 * WhyNot? * (+1)
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21:20:50 <esolangs> [[Unpl]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88644 * Larryrl * (+2824) Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{infobox proglang |name=Unpl |author=[[Larryrl]] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |influenc..."
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21:21:34 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88645&oldid=69380 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+46) Rectified the non-functional Hello, world! example by swapping each opening bracket [ with a closing bracket ] and vice versa.
21:22:30 <esolangs> [[Unpl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88646&oldid=88644 * Larryrl * (+92) /* Instructions */
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21:22:59 <esolangs> [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88647&oldid=88646 * Larryrl * (+1) /* Examples */
21:25:23 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88648&oldid=88645 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2739) Introduced the Common Lisp code for translating DetailedFuck to brainfuck.
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21:29:50 <esolangs> [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88649&oldid=88647 * Larryrl * (+0) /* Instructions */
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22:19:31 <esolangs> [[Chainfall]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=88650 * Fmbalbuena * (+221) redirect page
22:25:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Shovel * New user account
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22:31:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88651&oldid=88609 * Shovel * (+186) /* Introductions */
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22:32:43 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88652&oldid=88648 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-1) Amended an orthographic error in the Common Lisp code by changing the word instructions to its singular form instruction.
22:33:08 <fizzie> Weird, the fungot computer just rebooted out of nowhere.
22:33:19 <fizzie> Heard a beep from there and all.
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22:37:03 <fizzie> No idea what was up with that. Nothing in the logs either; I don't have persistent systemd journal, and the more old-fashioned /var/log/messages and such just have normal log events, a few hundred bytes of '\0's, and then the boot messages.
22:37:09 <nakilon> needs to shed the skin to grow
22:37:32 <fizzie> Oh well. Maybe it was a glitchy power thing or something. I don't have any UPS or filtering on it or anything.
22:37:37 <fizzie> fungot: Can you shed any light on this?
22:37:37 <fungot> fizzie: i think most of the picture. i still don't think it would pay off to eat
22:38:00 <fizzie> fungot: Well, yes, definitely don't try *eating* anything.
22:38:00 <fungot> fizzie: the virtual address space is still 32-bits, though?
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23:41:49 <esolangs> [[Unpl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88653&oldid=88649 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+5) user namespace
23:43:30 <esolangs> [[Help.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88654&oldid=88642 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* Truth Machine */ cat