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00:27:33 <b_jonas> and even the least accessed memory might be accessed too much if you have too little RAM
00:27:42 <b_jonas> there's only so much that swap can help
00:29:58 <b_jonas> if you have different speeds of disk, I certainly recommend putting swap on the fastest one, so an SSD on M2 port if available
00:30:43 <b_jonas> (in my spiffy new machine it's on an SSD on M2 port, but I also have enough RAM that the swap is almost never used
00:31:52 <b_jonas> I guess I should get back to that round integer puzzle, because I should be able to fill any amount of RAM trying to compute that
00:35:00 <oerjan> hm a spam purporting to be from a company i actually _do_ pay bills to. fiendish.
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00:35:53 <oerjan> (but since the real mails about those bills actually come via the bank, fruitless).
00:38:15 <b_jonas> oerjan: well sure, I get spam in the name of more banks and telephone/internet providers than I've ever been in real contact with,
00:38:36 <oerjan> yep. this time it was a telephone provider
00:38:38 <b_jonas> plus also in the name of ebay and paypal and I think even the tax agency
00:38:59 <oerjan> oh and it was in norwegian so i was actually fooled for a few seconds.
00:39:13 <b_jonas> it's not hard to guess in a way that some of the spam match my actual contacts
00:40:31 <oerjan> true. but i guess nvg's spam filter catches most of them for me.
00:40:46 <b_jonas> though the largest amount that I get right now are the ones that try to claim that my email server will stop delivering emails to my inbox if I don't confirm my personal details, and/or they have already stopped delivering but I can get the emails that are on hold if I confirm my personal details, and/or the password is going to expire or I'm over the quota or whatever
00:40:57 <b_jonas> and I have a large variety of these in different formats, which is funny
00:41:15 <b_jonas> they're all "last warning" and "you have a day", for months now
00:41:23 <oerjan> oh i get those. but since my actual email provider is a small computer club, those don't have a chance of fooling me.
00:42:17 <b_jonas> you would think sending so many last warnings about the same thing is pointless
00:42:27 <b_jonas> I mean who's going to pay attention to the tenth one?
00:42:34 <oerjan> well i suppose some of them try to claim to be from the club, but usually in english.
00:43:02 <oerjan> b_jonas: standard "it's not meant to catch smart people" reply
00:44:04 <b_jonas> the real target for these kinds of spam is my grandmother, not me
00:44:34 <b_jonas> (not the ones sent to my email address with my name, obviously)
00:45:09 <b_jonas> (they think I'm a time-traveler and my own grandmother)
00:47:44 <nakilon> hm, "sudo mount -a" says "mount point does not exist." so I mkdir it, then I run it and then lsblk does not show the device is being mounted
00:47:50 <oerjan> are you _sure_ you're not? strange things happen to people's gender is this channel.
00:48:01 <nakilon> and findmnt does not show the dir to be a mounted disk too
00:50:07 <velik> I now sat your plan
00:50:22 <nakilon> velik don't sit my plan pls
00:50:35 <velik> yep, the christmas was some, when with nmero takes back
00:51:04 <nakilon> also umount confirms that it's not mounted
00:53:22 <b_jonas> oerjan: I'm not sure, but I very much hope that I'm not my grandmother. that would suck.
00:54:33 <b_jonas> oerjan: also I'm now old enough that I have photos of her in my age, including wedding photos
00:54:53 <nakilon> how is this even possible https://dpaste.org/9zEr/slim
00:55:04 <b_jonas> but I know that's not a very strong proof, the photos need not depict what they claim to
00:58:00 <oerjan> i guess strange things would have to happen to your age too.
01:03:52 <oerjan> lots to skip in the logs today
01:19:03 <HackEso> smlist 532: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
01:21:37 <esolangs> [[TEPCS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88743&oldid=58356 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+815) Reformulated the list of commands, formatted code portions as source code, and inserted a missing exclamation mark in the example program 99 bottles of beer.
01:23:59 <esolangs> [[TEPCS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88744&oldid=88743 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+35) Formatted some inputs (arguments), hitherto erroneously lapsed, in italic.
01:25:27 <esolangs> [[TEPCS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88745&oldid=88744 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+25) Tagged this page with the category Output only.
01:29:11 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck self-interpreter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88746&oldid=73130 * Oerjan * (+8) Turn empty page into redirect
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02:11:47 <nakilon> so for some reason it's impossible to mount anything to a path that was used previously for a swap disk
02:11:54 <nakilon> so I mounted it as swap2 ..D
02:18:02 <oerjan> . o O ( maybe there's still something swapped out to it )
02:33:23 <oerjan> hmph i have defined a table that isn't on OEIS, but it has it if i only use the columns at power of 2 positions https://oeis.org/A098539
02:34:31 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88747&oldid=88682 * PixelatedStarfish * (+105)
02:34:50 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88748&oldid=88747 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* External Links */
02:35:10 <oerjan> (column 3 in my table starts 1,6,42,406,5866,133910,5034218,321429270,35668066538,7000281120534 and there's only one (irrelevant) OEIS hit that contains 406 and 5866)
02:35:16 <esolangs> [[Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88749&oldid=88748 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3) /* External Links */
02:36:21 <esolangs> [[Starstuff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88750&oldid=88537 * PixelatedStarfish * (+105) /* Decimal Compiler */
02:37:13 <esolangs> [[User:PixelatedStarfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88751&oldid=88596 * PixelatedStarfish * (+3)
02:38:09 <oerjan> except A098539 also contains an extra column that would be 1/2 in my table :P
02:38:29 <oerjan> well it's square doesn't, by definition.
02:40:14 <oerjan> oh hm maybe there is a way to see the connection
02:41:34 <fizzie> You mount swap disks to a path? Never heard of anything like that.
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02:45:19 <nakilon> oerjan it was after swapoff and all zeroes in free and empty proc
02:46:58 <nakilon> fizzie I mount a disk like a usual disk to then define swapfile in it or use in any another way
02:47:20 <fizzie> Okay, well. I guess you can do that.
02:48:07 <fizzie> Just sounds odd to insert a useless filesystem abstraction in the way if you don't have anything else in that filesystem except a swap file.
02:48:32 <nakilon> I came up to this historically
02:49:09 <nakilon> maybe I'll use the disk for anything else at the same time in future
02:50:56 <fizzie> Swap devices are supposedly more performant than swap files. No idea if that *actually* matters in practice though.
02:50:59 <fizzie> Files are definitely more flexible, I just wasn't expecting the disk then need to be mounted for swap purposes because if it has other uses, it'd have already been mounted for that.
02:52:02 <nakilon> https://serverfault.com/q/25653/67097
02:55:38 <esolangs> [[Greg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88752&oldid=88742 * TheJonyMyster * (+26)
02:59:35 <fizzie> I used to always set up an LVM thing because "maybe I'll need to reshuffle the way the disk is partitioned or create snapshots or something, and then it'll be convenient", and then I never ever did any of those things.
02:59:53 <nakilon> maybe there is something more to run to really-really disable swap to make the path mountable again
03:00:03 <nakilon> but guys on #linux didn't know, so I just used another path
03:01:33 <nakilon> I remember the time when I had about 10 partitions on Windows, and they were all different, the stuff was compilcated
03:02:07 <nakilon> there were so many details and combinations that limit you in the way of size and numbers of volumes/partitions
03:02:49 <nakilon> and today I just have disk C for one drive and D for a another one
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03:48:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ferrisfox * New user account
04:03:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88753&oldid=88709 * Ferrisfox * (+252)
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04:54:01 <esolangs> [[Tarski]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88754&oldid=80437 * Ferrisfox * (+141) Added a Quine and Truth Machine to examples
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05:14:34 <esolangs> [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88755&oldid=87370 * CosmicMan08 * (+95)
05:15:18 <esolangs> [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88756&oldid=88755 * CosmicMan08 * (-5)
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06:42:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sink * New user account
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06:59:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88757&oldid=88753 * Sink * (+155)
07:00:02 <esolangs> [[Hell.js]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88758&oldid=88718 * Sink * (+667) added samples, etc
07:00:59 <esolangs> [[Hell.js]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88759&oldid=88758 * Sink * (+0) i am not clever
07:23:31 <esolangs> [[Hell.js]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88760&oldid=88759 * Sink * (-116)
07:39:14 <riv> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-97RhAZhXI game of life but kind of a fluid?
07:43:48 <b_jonas> I prefer swap partitions. Why make the kernel developers' job more difficult where they have to implement file system drivers in a way that they can be called from any weird context where you'd swap something? And why risk your undefined behavior on them doing that correctly? Swap partitions are better. The only reason not to use them is if you have something like Windows that doesn't support them.
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09:18:23 <esolangs> [[TEPCS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88761&oldid=88745 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+193) Supplemented a description of the second input in a loop command.
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11:29:00 <esolangs> [[Hell.js]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88762&oldid=88760 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-7) /* Sample Programs */ remove extra line
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13:28:54 <esolangs> [[Greg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88763&oldid=88752 * TheJonyMyster * (-532)
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14:55:07 <esolangs> [[Senpai]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88764&oldid=88604 * 4gboframram * (+52) /* External Resources */
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15:52:20 <nakilon> riv cool! it now need some materia/energy preservation
15:57:10 <nakilon> anyone familiar with configuring the rrdtool?
16:03:11 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88765&oldid=87925 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+192) Added !!Fuck to the list of examples.
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16:47:50 <int-e> Does Unicode have a (non-breaking, ideally) space with matched width for box drawing?
16:55:19 <nakilon> does unicode define width?
16:56:21 <earendel> you mean like but same size as space(bar)
16:57:26 <fizzie> int-e: U+2588 FULL BLOCK + extra-Unicode mechanisms to invert colors? ;)
16:58:41 <fizzie> I've seen many many broken line-drawing pictures I feel like there can't be a dedicated space of the right size.
16:58:44 <int-e> earendel: yes, like that
16:59:13 <nakilon> IMHO the width is a responsibility of a font
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16:59:58 <int-e> (I suspect that one is probably too narrow in practice)
17:00:17 <int-e> (Because it's specified as the same width as *digits* in fonts where digits have fixed width)
17:00:23 <fizzie> Hmm, "space equal to tabular width of a font", "this is equivalent to the digit width of fonts with fixed-width digits".
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17:01:14 <int-e> So that leaves the usual em-wide space stuff but the width of the box drawing characters seems to be completely unspecified so that doesn't help either
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17:05:19 <fizzie> Heh, there's a very nice alignment test at the bottom of https://www.w3.org/2001/06/utf-8-test/UTF-8-demo.html :)
17:05:58 <fizzie> (It's just using the regular space, so it breaks in many browser/font combinations, apparently.)
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17:08:58 <nakilon> seems to be one pixel off https://i.imgur.com/EoQJWMa.png
17:10:11 <int-e> ah but that's supposed to use a fixed width font (default for <pre>)
17:10:46 <nakilon> fine in safari too but all broken in firefox https://i.imgur.com/nOiSCEg.png
17:10:47 <int-e> it's mostly fine here except there are 1px gaps between lines which look ugly.
17:10:58 <int-e> but at least it's all properly aligned
17:13:01 <int-e> (hmm there is a bit of jumping around at different scales)
17:13:28 <int-e> the gaps are probably just hinting artefacts
17:14:59 <nakilon> and perfectly aligned in Sublime Text https://i.imgur.com/ueI6S5g.png where ir's probably Andale Mono
17:14:59 <fizzie> Yeah, turns out "fixed width" isn't always so fixed. :)
17:16:02 <nakilon> and with Menlo in Terminal
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17:49:34 <esolangs> [[Greg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88766&oldid=88763 * TheJonyMyster * (+45) /* search stuff */
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18:04:28 <int-e> fizzie: Sure, but at least /in theory/ any of the half-width spaces should align with the box drawing then
18:04:55 <int-e> while for proportional fonts all bets are off
18:05:39 <int-e> (I love how "full width" is twice the usual character size)
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18:07:29 <foxsouns> nakilon: ive updated the readme and comments to be more informative, and reformatted to account for the stupid broken replit thing
18:08:19 <nakilon> foxsouns you are still with no good machine?
18:08:44 <foxsouns> yeah. i wish i had a real one >:(
18:08:59 <foxsouns> but whatever ill make do till then
18:09:00 <int-e> Oh, who has ever seen a full height 5 1/4" device :) (I've seen *one*... it was a 70MB HDD)
18:09:29 <foxsouns> you might be able to run dos on that
18:10:39 <int-e> But when it was alive it had MS DOS and maybe Windows 3.0? Maybe that was later...
18:10:43 <fizzie> I've seen one, but I don't think I've ever "had" one.
18:10:51 <fizzie> I think the HDD we had around that era was a half-height drive with 40MB of storage.
18:11:07 <int-e> When it broke it did that in a most ridiculous way too.
18:11:10 <foxsouns> smallest "drive" ive ever had is a 1gb standard size sd card
18:11:19 <fizzie> Still too big for one partition though. Had to split it to 32MB C: and an 8MB D: partitions.
18:11:45 <int-e> One of the (MFM) address lines broke so it had tons of aliased sectors.
18:11:54 <foxsouns> smallest hdd ive dealt with was a 30gb in a 2001 laptop
18:12:06 <int-e> To great effect on "disk repair" tools.
18:13:07 <int-e> They just don't make hardware that way anymore ;)_
18:13:30 <int-e> I think I stayed away from DoubleSpace.
18:13:42 <int-e> But I do remember the concept.
18:13:53 <fizzie> I didn't know you're not supposed to compress your Windows 3.1 system partition, so I went ahead and did it on the C: drive, and it just broke.
18:14:20 <fizzie> Windows only got as far as the start-up logo, then a chunk got eaten out of it and it just hung.
18:14:35 <nakilon> you wasn't supposed to compress it using a high pressure air chamber
18:14:45 <int-e> I have used compressed file systems... because of Knoppix :P
18:15:13 <foxsouns> im spoiled, oldest os ive used was 2000
18:15:16 <int-e> (and I guess initrd, technically)
18:15:43 <foxsouns> and i think puppy at one point
18:16:05 <int-e> let's be realistic: s/spoiled/young/
18:16:44 <int-e> (old systems did have their own charm btw... you could understand them)
18:17:11 <foxsouns> hate the ambiguity of modern windows
18:18:25 <int-e> nowadays you have to look at some really small embedded device (about the size of an arduino) to get that same feeling.
18:18:30 <foxsouns> if i had a proper system for it id probably run gentoo, but ive been stuck up till now without a system, and when i did have one it only had 4gb ram and a 1.6ghz proscessor
18:18:31 <zzo38> I invented a encoding that the width is defined (as well as simple to calculate), so hopefully that is better for a purpose where you need to render fix pitch text into a grid display. Not all of the characters are defined, but once they are that only requires providing a font; width calculation and terminal emulators and other programs do not need to change (except ones that convert encodings).
18:19:17 <foxsouns> the pico, but thats not really a computer
18:19:22 <nakilon> just some 12 years ago I used hard drive that sounded differently on different volumes so when I was in another room trying to sleep and I heard a HDD noise I could realise 'that's gonna be ICQ message' before the notification sound plays
18:19:32 <zzo38> It will not be suitable for other purposes, but I think that is acceptable since no character encoding will ever be suitable for all uses.
18:20:20 <nakilon> basically I heard every activity and knew when computer is doing something that it's not supposed to, so no background crap could waste my resources or hide itself
18:20:51 <zzo38> A code page number can be assigned, and a escape code to select by code page numbers if you need to change the selection
18:20:56 <fizzie> int-e: I don't know, I've been fiddling on an ESP32 microcontroller lately, it's running FreeRTOS and this chunky Espressif SDK with a wifi stack, I don't really have a feeling of understanding it. ;)
18:21:19 <int-e> fizzie: not small enough :)
18:21:36 <fizzie> Yeah, I think it's just that I wanted it to do wifi.
18:22:25 <nakilon> I should patent a retrodevice
18:23:17 <nakilon> a thingy with a speaker that you attach to USB and it starts intercepting SSD operations and emulate the HDD sound
18:23:24 <zzo38> (But if you want to display box drawing in a terminal emulator, the VT100 codes for box drawing can be used if they are suitable)
18:23:31 <foxsouns> i kinda want a built-for-linux laptop, support the community and shit
18:23:49 <foxsouns> nakilon: haha yeah id buy that
18:23:52 <zzo38> I think I had used disk compression on DOS before but only because the computer came with that feature already enabled
18:25:22 <foxsouns> wish linux for arm would come along quicker :<
18:26:23 <fizzie> nakilon: Can you also have it monitor the wifi/ethernet interfaces and make the modem sounds at appropriate times?
18:26:47 <nakilon> also it can be a software probably, not need of USB plug
18:27:40 <zzo38> It depend how well the software in the computer can be trusted to not change is one thing
18:27:42 <nakilon> fizzie it can be a browser extension probably
18:28:27 <zzo38> The browser will not be the only program which accesses the internet
18:28:50 <zzo38> Linux kernel module could work, yes, although it will then use up memory and CPU time
18:29:25 <zzo38> I dislike USB though, I think USB is a bad idea
18:29:32 <nakilon> it can be a service with plugins sending the signals from any kind of programs
18:29:48 <zzo38> (although maybe it could have be better designed)
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18:30:04 <foxsouns> please dont make it systemd only
18:30:57 <zzo38> I don't like systemd either, but a lot of people don't like systemd, it is full of many problems. If I would upgrade my system it would have to be to one without systemd.
18:31:06 <nakilon> "USB is a bad idea" -- but it makes a content for kickstarter video
18:31:15 <nakilon> people love physical stuff
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18:33:35 <foxsouns> zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_distributions_without_systemd
18:34:12 <zzo38> No, I mean USB is badly designed, I don't mean physical hardware cannot be used. For one thing, it doesn't identify by which port it is connected to, another is needing identification by vendor codes (protocol identification would be better, although it does that too), and many other design problems. USB can be OK for providing power for some kinds of devices, though
18:34:24 <zzo38> foxsouns: OK thank you I will look
18:35:05 <foxsouns> devuan and artix are debian and arch w/ other init options, and are the main two i think of, and that page has others
18:36:29 <nakilon> what do you mean "by which port"? pretty sure I found which port I connect the speaker to just few weeks ago
18:37:05 <foxsouns> usb isnt consistent across systems, and sometimes across poweroffs
18:37:31 <nakilon> at least on Windows there is some .cpl that showed me the name of the device or something, that it's connected to "USB #5"
18:38:50 <foxsouns> then thats the 5th usb that got to the kernel, whether or not thats consistent is up to the operating system
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18:42:27 <int-e> I don't even get stable sda/sdb anymore (both are builtin devices)
18:42:32 <foxsouns> i would say a service (openrc and runit are the most popular non-systemd ones) or a kernel module would be the easiest way to do so software-wise, and on linux
18:43:00 <foxsouns> i have no idea how to do so on windows though
18:59:07 <zzo38> I also dislike GTK. Is there alternatives of GTK which implement the same API so that the dynamic linking can be changed and then it will work?
19:18:57 <foxsouns> but i dont know if it has the same api, probably not
19:21:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheXappy * New user account
19:25:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88767&oldid=88757 * TheXappy * (+173) /* Introductions */
19:26:34 <b_jonas> int-e: I saw a 100 MB HDD that is as wide as normal hard disks or CD drives (5.25 inch) but thicker, yes, it used to be in our computer when I was a small child
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19:29:25 <b_jonas> also I'm still looking to buy a monitor, and the selection in large monitors is underwhelming
19:33:30 <b_jonas> It still seems like I'll be buying one with 2560x1440 px resolution, so I will have to make a 24 px tall font (named fecupboard24 obviously)
19:42:54 <fizzie> The "standard" height of a CD-ROM drive bay is called "half-height", which I think int-e was referring to.
19:44:46 <fizzie> "Full-height bays were found in old PCs in the early to mid-1980s. They were 3+1⁄4 inches (82.6 mm) high -- Half-height drive bays are 1+5⁄8 inches (41.3 mm) high --“
19:46:54 <fizzie> It's also a little confusing how they're called "5.25" bays" when they're actually 5.75" wide, but of course the bay needs to be a little bit wider than the 5.25" floppy that goes into it.
19:47:29 <b_jonas> fizzie: in that case I only saw a hard disk that is as thick as a CD drive, not a full height one
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20:21:22 <esolangs> [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88768&oldid=88756 * CosmicMan08 * (+96)
20:23:56 <nakilon> oracle cloud is different from google and yandex in many ways; the minimal disk size is 50 gb even for the boot one and you don't choose between hdd, ssd, etc. but precisely select the performance stats
20:28:03 <zzo38> I think Xaw is mostly OK, although it isn't used so much in modern programs and is only on X. Programs using SDL might have their own widget implementations, which is what I did (and also a independent implementation of X resource manager).
20:34:49 <esolangs> [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88769&oldid=88768 * CosmicMan08 * (+118)
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21:05:54 <esolangs> [[Greg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88770&oldid=88766 * TheJonyMyster * (+15) /* general stuff */
21:06:10 <esolangs> [[Greg]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88771&oldid=88770 * TheJonyMyster * (+13)
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21:44:31 <esolangs> [[Senpai]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88772&oldid=88764 * 4gboframram * (+19) /* External Resources */
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23:53:23 <esolangs> [[Greg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88773&oldid=88771 * TheJonyMyster * (+11)
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23:56:12 <nakilon> just look at this: " tell application "Terminal" to get the history of every tab of every window"
23:58:33 <esolangs> [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=88774&oldid=88769 * CosmicMan08 * (+515) Added computational class