00:22:07 <Melvar> What are complex generic expressions and const arguments?
00:23:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Icosalord *  New user account
00:24:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89747&oldid=89742 * Icosalord * (+140) /* Introductions */
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00:45:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89748&oldid=89747 * Icosalord * (+172) 
00:54:25 <b_jonas> Melvar: that means an expression in a generic paramter, in generic context, that contains a generic value parameter, so that the typechecker has to be able to prove that some type is always the same as some other type, for which it has to compare the value of a generic value parameter in the two types, where those expressions aren't concrete values but functions of some generic variables as input, so 
00:54:31 <b_jonas> that's hard
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00:57:14 <b_jonas> Melvar, like imagine you are defining a type MyArray<Len: isize>, and in a function generic like fn foo<X: isize>, you take a value of type MyArray<X * 2> and assign it to a variable of type MyArray<X + X>. the rust compiler has to make sure that the types match generically to allow the code, not just that they match after instantiating with a specific X, so it has to prove that X+X and X*2 are the same 
00:57:20 <b_jonas> number for every X. 
00:57:37 <b_jonas> it can't generally do such proofs, so it refuses to do such comparisons except in a few very limited restricted cases
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04:46:57 <Melvar> I see.
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09:39:05 <int-e> b_jonas: Oh is that why, mm. I expected it to go the C++ route and check after instantiation
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11:11:19 <int-e> may I also say that  union::Union::<{N*N}>::new()  looks ridiculous and ugly
11:12:53 <int-e> (that's a generic `Union` type from a module called `union`, with a (constant) generic argument that equals `N*N`... and then the `new` method for that)
11:14:54 * int-e is not a fan of encapsulating an expression in curly braces, nor of the ::<...> syntax.
11:15:14 <Franciman> C++ templates being the ultimate esolang
11:17:23 <int-e> Oh sure it's an unfair comparison
11:19:06 <int-e> C++ is much older, and its rules surrounding templates are arcane. Presumably the Rust designers don't want to end up in this situation so they are being conservative in what they support.
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13:51:11 <esolangs> [[User:Icosalord]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=89749 * Icosalord * (+76) Created page with "hi, i'm a icosahedron who randomly discovered esolangs from a youtube video."
14:10:36 <esolangs> [[BitShift]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89750&oldid=46161 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+165) Marked the official BitShift implementation's hyperlink as currently invalid based upon its disrespondency, and added a reference to my implementation on GitHub.
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14:37:50 <Twingamerdudes> hello
14:38:33 <riv> hi
14:38:45 <Twingamerdudes> just updated my npp UDL for mash to support dark mode (like make it have a nonwhite bg). Didn't do it earlier because I could not enable dark mode because I was too lazy to update lol
14:44:09 <Corbin> TIL about Notepad++ user-defined languages, or UDLs.
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14:47:57 <riv> is N++ good?
14:48:05 <Twingamerdudes> yeah it is
14:48:08 <riv> what's mash?
14:48:28 <Twingamerdudes> my esolang
14:48:37 <riv> ocool
14:48:41 <Twingamerdudes> you can find it right here https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mash
14:49:38 <riv> interesting esolang 
14:49:51 <Twingamerdudes> thanks
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14:52:59 <esolangs> [[Mash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89751&oldid=89635 * Twingamerdudes * (+1) /* How to make a mash program */ fixed tyo
14:53:25 <Twingamerdudes> bruh, fixed a typo, and then made a typo in the typo fix, lol
14:54:33 <Corbin> That's what the preview button is for.
14:54:33 <esolangs> [[Mash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89752&oldid=89751 * Twingamerdudes * (+0) /* Notes and tips */
14:55:15 <esolangs> [[Mash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89753&oldid=89752 * Twingamerdudes * (+0) /* Tips */
14:55:21 <Twingamerdudes> so many typo fixes
14:56:15 <esolangs> [[Mash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89754&oldid=89753 * Twingamerdudes * (+1) /* Notes */
15:01:35 <esolangs> [[User:Twingamerdudes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89755&oldid=89543 * Twingamerdudes * (-1) For some reason. I did pfp (profile picture) instead of pf(profile). Sometimes, I make stupid mistakes like this.
15:02:33 <esolangs> [[Mash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89756&oldid=89754 * Twingamerdudes * (+9) Made my profile name a link instead of plain text
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15:10:46 <Twingamerdudes> I dare someone to try to make a game that uses my esolang
15:18:26 <Corbin> Twingamerdudes: The typical strategy would be to compile a more ergonomic language to your language. The first two steps are to determine how Mash computes, and what kind of complexity it has.
15:19:19 <Corbin> By "complexity" I mean what kinds of functions Mash can compute. Some functions are more complex than others, and can't be implemented as easily. (This leads to "computational complexity theory", a very important topic for computer scientists.)
15:20:03 <Corbin> I would probably start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_machine
15:23:41 <Twingamerdudes> That would be pretty good, but my lack of making programming languages makes it almost impossible for me. I use so many cheat cheats in Mash, I can't count anymore XD. Maybe I might do it, but it won't be for a long time
15:25:31 <Twingamerdudes> like Mash is my esoteric programming language and programming language overall.
15:31:34 <Corbin> No worries. Computational theory, including compiler theory, is dense and subtle. It will take a while to be able to think quickly using these tools.
15:32:12 <Twingamerdudes> alr
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17:14:43 <esolangs> [[BitShift]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89757&oldid=89750 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+14) Emphasized that the character input and output is based on the ASCII character repertoire.
17:53:46 <esolangs> [[Gdelfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89758&oldid=87404 * TJC games * (+220) A lot of stoof
17:57:50 <esolangs> [[Gdelfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89759&oldid=89758 * TJC games * (+4) 
18:14:49 <esolangs> [[Gdelfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89760&oldid=89759 * TJC games * (+136) That's a big number
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18:53:25 <esolangs> [[Gdelfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89761&oldid=89760 * TJC games * (+736) adding v1.0 to the page for older porgrams
18:53:48 <esolangs> [[Gdelfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89762&oldid=89761 * TJC games * (-159) /* Examples */
18:55:41 <esolangs> [[Gdelfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89763&oldid=89762 * TJC games * (-4) 
19:02:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * TJC games *  moved [[Gdelfuck]] to [[Gdel****]]: I don't want to have swear words anymore
19:02:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * TJC games *  moved [[Talk:Gdelfuck]] to [[Talk:Gdel****]]: I don't want to have swear words anymore
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20:25:34 <esolangs> [[BitShift]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89768&oldid=89757 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1685) Added an exemplary and very simple implementation of BitShift in Common Lisp.
20:29:05 <esolangs> [[++Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89769&oldid=65074 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+58) Improved the formatting by designing command characters as code, and introduced homogeneity by appending a terminating dot to the descriptions lacking such.
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21:29:22 <esolangs> [[Gdel****]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89770&oldid=89764 * TJC games * (+0) 
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22:51:20 <fizzie> Hm. SendGrid's email API has a 100 messages/day free tier with no time limits, which would be perfectly sufficient for the esolangs.org registration emails, and would circumvent all that trouble of running a mail server, but I can't quite figure out if it's really intended for that (they keep calling it a "trial").
23:04:29 <int-e> Hmm, best case, it means "offer subject to change without notice"
23:04:42 <int-e> worst case, you're missing some small print
23:14:53 <b_jonas> fizzie: is it one of those "free" things where you hvae to give a credit card number to create an account?
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23:16:32 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, you only need billing information for switching to a paid tier.
23:20:31 <b_jonas> good
23:26:41 <b_jonas> fungot: A cat that could play? A mouse that could waltz? Good heavens! The emperor couldn't believe his ears.
23:26:41 <fungot> b_jonas: i still don't know what
23:50:55 <esolangs> [[Muppp]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=89771&oldid=68449 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+79) Added categories to the page and amended some orthographic mistakes.
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