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< 1642118619 693613 :impomatic!~impomatic@host213-1-7-166.range213-1.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
> 1642118864 809344 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MacroBeep14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92058&oldid=92057 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-10216) 10/* Test Cases */
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< 1642118891 829381 :impomatic!~impomatic@host213-1-7-166.range213-1.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1642120011 261714 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :How do ordinal numbers work when "zeroth" exists? When "zeroth", does "first" = "second"?
< 1642120030 716515 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I got confused by the NDball page because of this
< 1642120047 958117 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :label "first" = ordinal "second"
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< 1642125234 904252 :kit-ten!~u0_a391@2603-6010-a141-6fa3-950d-0150-5311-7e6b.res6.spectrum.com JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391
< 1642125428 789194 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@2600:380:a452:c043:6563:21d7:2ac:40fb QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1642125919 671386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite
< 1642130397 518364 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1642130827 128553 :sprock!~sprock@user/sprock JOIN #esolangs sprock :sprock
< 1642134989 422027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Look at this beauty (colors are preserved through reduction; there are beta steps and steps that replace alpha by its full expression. syntax is T = ^T | `TT | v, where variables start at 0) https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/alpha-k.html
< 1642135053 691730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(There's alpha-s.html for S too, but that's a 5MB HTML file)
< 1642139530 358938 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-145-158-104.range86-145.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
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< 1642139773 341491 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-145-158-104.range86-145.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
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< 1642141986 332223 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.203.87 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime
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< 1642143296 268949 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
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< 1642145617 122911 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.203.87 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime
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< 1642147411 947358 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam
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< 1642148137 77489 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.203.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1642148431 171952 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1642148662 90593 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :ZNC - https://znc.in
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< 1642149295 242708 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1642154122 381701 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1642154937 134459 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1642155173 50029 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1642155207 174053 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam
< 1642155427 359128 :Oshawott!~archenoth@2604:3d09:681:f00:3863:cfe8:507d:8d05 JOIN #esolangs Archenoth :archenoth
< 1642155443 77924 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.203.87 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime
< 1642155497 516903 :archenoth!~archenoth@2604:3d09:681:f00:cb2:cb45:7a07:3d72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1642155833 846331 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: those are neat (K and S). The colours are a great idea. Do you have generic code available to this sort of tracked reduction, or is this a one off for just those combinators?
< 1642156360 617200 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :S blows out amazingly, (1933 character line at max, with 731 alphas) but reduces down relatively quickly.
< 1642156708 170363 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :... what does `I` look like? -- is that going to be longer than S, via SKK, or is there a more direct way in terms of alpha?
< 1642156956 543303 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1642157062 927593 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] salpynx
< 1642157670 491291 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1642157870 327746 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: in what sense does a kayak paddle rotate? does the rower rotate it foward when they row with the hand with the bearing, or backwards?
< 1642157870 906730 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: how much do you program the robots, not so much work. it's a bit irrational in the general case in the second short e turns to i.
< 1642157975 309151 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: also which core series Pokémon games have the mechanic where when a Pokémon is about to evolve from leveling, you can interrupt that by pressing a button to keep its current less evolved speices?
< 1642157975 552418 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: if at the end of january?
< 1642157984 177220 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which year, fungot? which year?
< 1642157984 419248 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: i don't like
< 1642157996 795802 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :those games have been going on for over two decades now. "january" doesn't help.
< 1642158080 617820 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: Have you been watching AGDQ? I saw something about Pokémon.
< 1642158081 182711 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: for the empty-as, shouldn't car be an error to return when the fd is closed? ( i'm using drscheme
< 1642158399 684104 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1642158406 365887 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: how often does Batman use his bat-webshooter to shoot webs using his sticky and strong bat-web liquid formula? when he does, is he afraid that the other comic strip company will get angry at him?
< 1642158406 815816 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: changed and it fnord to asi523 for having numbers whose product are no greater then the length of the file?
< 1642158438 661955 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1642158473 936014 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] salpynx
< 1642158605 647639 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Heh, apparently "asi523" is a sufficiently common word to not get fnorded.
< 1642158614 431260 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs ::-)
< 1642158931 339595 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :With Johannes Bader's basis, his S is indeed not minimal. He says he found no shorter up to size 15. So he missed this one of size 16: S = X(X(X(X X(X(X(X X))))))(X(X(X X) X) X) X
< 1642159048 30065 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx: I = A(A(A(A A)A))(A(A A)A) of size 10
< 1642159084 978884 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :has anyone heard of the Harmonic Time-Bind Ritual Symphony?
< 1642159091 527010 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice, I've just been checking αKK = I, which seems to work
< 1642159097 160915 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am thinking I might try it out later
< 1642159216 64421 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: does that involve a choir of four simultaneous 24-hour days?
< 1642159228 486155 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's very likely to
< 1642159384 161019 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1642160152 925109 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] salpynx
< 1642160213 521939 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungotÉ you rotate it backwards, apparently. but I still don'tk now the answer to the Pokémon question.
< 1642160214 124066 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: or just a genral stigma?), a is -1 or inputed character, and it can run more than one
< 1642160257 273085 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot gotta poke em all
< 1642160257 772586 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :riv: now nobody say " bot," then you are just asking for bad puns to be made?
< 1642160954 643944 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: Yeah, that's your purpose on this channel, to make bad puns.
< 1642160955 36382 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: oh no, that's fine then :) an " object identity equality" operator
< 1642160981 777671 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :IDGI
< 1642162215 921384 :razetime!~quassel@49.207.203.87 QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.
< 1642162883 313952 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been playing with alpha in python and am getting max recursion depth exceeded with I(I) (defined in terms of alpha), but it seems to behave correctly otherwise.
< 1642162959 641101 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@2600:380:a47b:9bdd:4fd0:b892:8ed8:c8f5 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391
< 1642163010 988610 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"α = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z));I = α(α(α(α(α))(α)))(α(α(α))(α));I(I)"
< 1642163012 430223 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Traceback (most recent call last): \   File "<string>", line 1, in <module> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   [Previous line repeated 996 more times] \ RecursionError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
< 1642163105 904877 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx: try import sys; sys.setrecursionlimit(1_000_000)
< 1642163159 914878 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :```>>> I(I)
< 1642163160 448582 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :Segmentation fault (core dumped)```
< 1642163161 50400 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​``>>>? No such file or directory
< 1642163166 310287 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :fun!
< 1642163206 861950 :kit-ten!~u0_a391@2603-6010-a141-6fa3-950d-0150-5311-7e6b.res6.spectrum.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1642163265 684236 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know if this is a great proof, but it demonstrates my python doing what I expect the same identity function to do
< 1642163267 548393 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"α = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z));I = α(α(α(α(α))(α)))(α(α(α))(α));test = lambda x: 'test' if x == '?' else α;print(I(I(test))('?'))"
< 1642163269 27629 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :test
< 1642163391 730347 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :instead of i(i), how about the simpler i(0) ?
< 1642163438 409823 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN
< 1642163602 12974 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I get type errors if the argument is not a function (hence that 'test' lambda above which returns a string if passed a '?' string, alpha otherwise)
> 1642163667 518826 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Subleq14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92059&oldid=90797 5* 03Shaman 5* (+178) 10
< 1642163676 701678 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :tromp: maybe it's the identity only up to eta conversion equivalence
< 1642163691 835773 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :(S(K)(K))(S(K)(K)) (all in terms of alpha) gives a fn that behaves as identity
< 1642163715 993767 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I(S(K)(K)) triggers the max recursion depth
< 1642163759 313888 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :strangely I(S(K)(S)) seems to be trying to do something, but I haven't seen it terminate yet
< 1642163770 880405 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so how you'd test the supposed identity is to pass it a hundred-argument function that returns a non-callable magic token (0 in your case), then call the result with a hundred different magic tokens, and see if you get your first magic token as a result
< 1642163815 137790 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :it equals I itself, not some other eta equivalent
< 1642163851 824070 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :tromp: in that case you should be able to pass a non-callable argument to it
> 1642163879 825114 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Izhora14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92060&oldid=89479 5* 03Shaman 5* (+103) 10
> 1642163908 520562 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Izhora14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92061&oldid=92060 5* 03Shaman 5* (+6) 10
> 1642163928 285642 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Izhora14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92062&oldid=92061 5* 03Shaman 5* (+0) 10
< 1642163936 335428 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course the term is untypable; Haskell reports an infinite type error on let a x y z = x z (y (const z)) in i = a(a(a(a a) a) a) a
< 1642163936 843841 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :If this is what you meant, I(0) where 0 is an integer 0:
< 1642163938 400180 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"α = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z));I = α(α(α(α(α))(α)))(α(α(α))(α));I(0)"
< 1642163939 899489 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Traceback (most recent call last): \   File "<string>", line 1, in <module> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   [Previous line repeated 2 more times] \ TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
< 1642163989 400928 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :while a itself it typable: a :: (a -> t1 -> t2) -> ((b -> a) -> t1) -> a -> t2
< 1642164173 375238 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I(S(K)(S)) appears to just loop,   I can use sks and skk as identity and sks(skk) interchangeably and that seems to work
< 1642164371 400288 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know if this helps, but using a fn b which returns its argument and prints 'B', I(b) prints B 5 times, and returns b
< 1642164700 13625 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: what is the purpose of the 100 arguments in the test function? I assume 100 means 'many', but what's the main purpose? Just to create a unique signature?
< 1642164812 965190 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx: no, to make sure that the I can work if it's not the same I but an eta-equivalent, something like I = \x\y.xy or I = \x\y\z.xyz etc
< 1642165238 382564 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this is a shorter version of that idea:
< 1642165241 480166 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :>>>I(fish)
< 1642165241 988942 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :<function fish at 0x7f21d959bea0>
< 1642165242 480421 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :>>> I(fish)(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(0)
< 1642165242 980089 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :'fish test!'
< 1642165243 480358 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :>>> I(fish)(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(1)
< 1642165243 980295 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :<function <lambda> at 0x7f21d9c95c80>
< 1642165244 523306 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :>>> I(fish)(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(0)
< 1642165244 982481 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :'fish test!'
< 1642165245 485463 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :>>> (S(K)(K))(I)(fish)(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(0)
< 1642165245 992330 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :'fish test!'
< 1642165246 517351 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :>>> (S(K)(K))(fish)(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(0)
< 1642165247 23787 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :'fish test!'
< 1642165855 109868 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's super late, I've been poking at this too long (fish test?), but it's been interesting. If anyone wants to check my code or reproduce the recursion issue, here's what I have for alpha and SKI: https://pastebin.com/Q1R1wW7f
< 1642166288 851874 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :What is your opinion on rust { and } format string feature?
< 1642166296 421828 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :you escape then like this {{ and }}
< 1642166423 209685 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :\n denotes a newline, so it is better that { just denotes a '{
< 1642166437 569640 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs : ' character. and \{ \} be used as metacharacters
< 1642166458 8428 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it may be thought of as less readable
< 1642166572 993456 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1642166923 890151 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :string literals are purely about encoding a sequence of characters. format strings are string literals - but the sequence of characters has its own metacharacters and escaping and so on
< 1642166928 241581 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you can look at it in layers
< 1642166953 134520 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :having two layers of metacharacters, escaping and quotation - is it a good thing or a bad thing
< 1642167166 362634 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hate python/rust-like braced format string simply because "{:12.2e}" is two characters slower to write than "%12.2e". But rust puts an extra stupid spin on them, because the short "{}" behaves like "%f" rather than "%g" so you never even encounter the one case where you can use a format specifier that is just as short as the C-like would be.
< 1642167186 90163 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i see
< 1642167784 497938 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :tromp: I( α(α(α)(α)) )  is a smaller term that causes the max recursion (or segfault if the limit is increased) behaviour
< 1642167840 425915 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :luckily the python standard library comes with functions that use the C-style format directives too
< 1642167893 79212 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@217.114.38.44 JOIN #esolangs eli_oat :eli_oat
< 1642168329 20852 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1642171368 56494 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1642174206 827698 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92063&oldid=90168 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+138) 10Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the JR programming language on GitHub.
< 1642174592 364082 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1642174735 302408 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:SunnyMoon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92064&oldid=92045 5* 03TwilightSparkle 5* (+427) 10yay
< 1642179224 439491 :kit-ten!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391
< 1642179457 636942 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@2600:380:a47b:9bdd:4fd0:b892:8ed8:c8f5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1642179653 186106 :eli_oat!~eli_oat@217.114.38.44 QUIT :Quit: eli_oat
< 1642180975 125375 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391
< 1642180980 934374 :kit-ten!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1642181346 786447 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :tfw you put  b { font-weight: normal }  in your CSS because <b> is shorter than <span>
< 1642181506 676415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> 5375045 / 7480981
< 1642181508 146163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : 0.7184946733590154
< 1642182125 329673 :wellen!~kleine@dynamic-046-114-155-197.46.114.pool.telefonica.de JOIN #esolangs * :tomek
> 1642182660 227374 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Quiner14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92065&oldid=92043 5* 03Umnikos 5* (+170) 10Add an alternative quine example
< 1642184661 657402 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1642184739 854902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN #esolangs oerjan :Ørjan Johansen
< 1642184750 693920 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1642185468 951270 :Guest37!~Guest37@p8966088-ipngn10101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest37
< 1642185505 831909 :Guest37!~Guest37@p8966088-ipngn10101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Client Quit
< 1642186508 381231 :DHeadshot!~smuxi@cpc121954-woki8-2-0-cust72.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :Deadly Headshot
< 1642186632 863196 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
< 1642188010 814056 :wellen!~kleine@dynamic-046-114-155-197.46.114.pool.telefonica.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1642188089 507782 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh I like the dialogue in today's GG.
< 1642188113 787287 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Same planet, different worlds.
< 1642188369 177495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esolangs :i almost thought the castle was affected by the fumes there
< 1642188553 546931 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I assume that's after they already used the less common one-letter tags Q and S and U for something too. and if those four aren't enough, then comes I and A.
< 1642188609 739555 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I didn't; b was the first single letter one I thought of :P
< 1642188676 968676 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then even the two-letter ones like H6, H5, H4, H3, H2, H1, HR, RP, RT, DL, DD, DT, EM, OL, UL, LI, TH, TR, TD, BR
< 1642188711 440228 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :<q> was new to me, somehow
< 1642188732 596360 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and <a> is too special.
< 1642188962 246681 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if A is too special, you can restrict your CSS rules based on attributes with something like a :not(a[href]) { ... } so they revert to their normal behavior when they have a href
< 1642189010 441701 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-3-122.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe a:not(a[href]) { ... } without the space
> 1642189263 534900 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dirac14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92066 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+1310) 10Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{infobox proglang |name=dirac |paradigms=imperative |author=[[:User:Palaiologos|Palaiologos]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |memsys=:Category:Cell-based|Cell-..."
< 1642189591 600081 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1642189601 386084 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391
> 1642189890 929326 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dirac14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92067&oldid=92066 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+92) 10
< 1642190461 411661 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
> 1642190631 457671 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ethan T. Stanger14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92068 5* 03Ethan T. Stanger 5* (+16) 10Created page with "I like esolangs."
> 1642190763 583390 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ethan T. Stanger14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92069 5* 03Ethan T. Stanger 5* (+61) 10Redirected page to [[Https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ethan T. Stanger]]
> 1642190815 840382 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92070&oldid=92063 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+152) 10Extended the command table by a column juxtaposing the Deadfish equivalents, if extant.
> 1642190817 311798 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ethan T. Stanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92071&oldid=92069 5* 03Ethan T. Stanger 5* (-9) 10Removed redirect to [[Https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ethan T. Stanger]]
> 1642190874 806166 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ethan T. Stanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92072&oldid=92071 5* 03Ethan T. Stanger 5* (-18) 10
> 1642190894 478674 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ethan T. Stanger14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92073&oldid=92072 5* 03Ethan T. Stanger 5* (+1) 10Redirected page to [[User:Ethan T. Stanger]]
> 1642191369 961635 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Palaiologos14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92074&oldid=91927 5* 03Palaiologos 5* (+17) 10
< 1642191972 763164 :sebbu!~sebbu@user/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1642192043 961041 :sebbu!~sebbu@user/sebbu JOIN #esolangs sebbu :sebbu
> 1642193474 802247 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Fxomt 5*  10New user account
> 1642193890 96699 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92075&oldid=92028 5* 03Fxomt 5* (+247) 10/* Introductions */
> 1642195611 405483 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HASSL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92076 5* 03Ethan T. Stanger 5* (+3501) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=HASSL |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[Ethan T. Stanger]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |typesys= |memsys=[[:Category:Stack-based|Stack-Based]] |dimens..."
< 1642195615 602105 :kit-ten!~u0_a391@2600:380:a47c:f1f4:1689:bbab:7452:b4f0 JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391
< 1642195849 428819 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@64.85.173.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1642197023 169424 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1642197361 843114 :kit_ten!~u0_a391@2603-6010-a141-6fa3-950d-0150-5311-7e6b.res6.spectrum.com JOIN #esolangs * :u0_a391
< 1642197386 415203 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN
< 1642197557 522819 :kit-ten!~u0_a391@2600:380:a47c:f1f4:1689:bbab:7452:b4f0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1642197560 949848 :delta23!~delta23@user/delta23 JOIN #esolangs delta23 :delta23__
< 1642199145 263394 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :tromp: I did some colorful reductions, file:///home/bf3/alpha-i.html file:///home/bf3/alpha-k.html and file:///home/bf3/alpha-s.html (big, 5MB)
< 1642199194 817503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(ther's b, w, and c as well; C is even worse than S at 8MB)
< 1642199232 191452 :tech_exorcist!txrcst@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting
< 1642199311 923131 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] salpynx
< 1642199321 610457 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder how much that would shrink if I replaced useless subterms by ⊥
< 1642199371 334712 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :im having trouble opening those links
< 1642199375 324915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :uhm
< 1642199378 567032 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah you would
< 1642199405 871067 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :these should work: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/alpha-i.html https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/alpha-k.html https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/alpha-s.html (5MB)
< 1642199450 241660 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :seriously cool visualization
< 1642199528 734808 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just joined to say I 'found' a naive I, going from SK(K|S) -> αK(K|S) -> αKα , which is has 13 alphas. That isn't givng me the recursion trouble that the size 10 one is
< 1642199619 378617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/alpha-b.html stands out in that the three remaining abstractions stem from different alphas
< 1642199639 911128 :riv!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hello salpynx 
< 1642199694 331629 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi!
< 1642199818 772955 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :How to request the criticism/cryptanalysis of cryptographic hash algorithm? The "2D hash" has a infinite internal state size and infinite output size, and has two dimensions (input dimensions and output dimension; either one can be space and the other one time, and you will get the same answer either way).
< 1642199825 199340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx: code looks like this: https://paste.debian.net/1227159/
< 1642199946 822957 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which is improved from yesterday where I generated HTML with `sed` :P)
< 1642199966 528771 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :+1 for sed!
< 1642200017 435352 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which would not have supported the highlighting through hovering on (the head of) subterms that the new version does :)
< 1642200029 88779 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :The first 768 bits of a empty hash are: 8d90a8ffcc33d31505cc15e2042c766e9bd965d4e51dce84fe0d871bd1d40ecbe4a2091aa2217ac92f9654b4b994ba69ba2630e260ddfd26efc7de04787984240e7e5b0d80c0ee7d616e479d6ebc3346b6efb6086e9bb0aa870de4ce8b97f019
< 1642200046 536307 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1642200302 194354 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :tromp: you might like the Read instance from that paste :)
< 1642200335 133050 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(different design choice from yours: I use digits 0..9 and then add parentheses: (10), (11) etc.)
< 1642200356 332745 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure what's up with the recursion error I'm seeing with that I(I) in python. I just checked my conversion from your I notation and got the same as I was using last night
< 1642200386 585105 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not sure if it's the limitations of python, of there's something weird with the combinator.
< 1642200491 28816 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm.
< 1642200639 36691 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I = ``α`α``α`ααα``α`ααα = A(A(A(A A)A))(A(A A)A) = α(α(α(α(α))(α)))(α(α(α))(α))
< 1642200665 62542 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :the python notation is the worst, but it's what I'm executing
< 1642200765 171566 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well Python is strict.
< 1642200791 417365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Note how there's a `0^... just before the last line, that gets erased in the final step?
< 1642200800 36456 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can paste 1 liners at HackEso to demonstrate the problem, but it's probably not that easy to read for longer examples
< 1642200817 497742 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you try to evaluate that, it'll apply something to the argument, corresponding to  TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
< 1642201031 28613 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was working around that by only using functions
< 1642201042 489123 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is the strangeness:
< 1642201044 887796 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"α = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z));I = α(α(α(α(α))(α)))(α(α(α))(α));I(I)"
< 1642201045 650297 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there may be other problems with the translation, I'm not sure.
< 1642201046 329906 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Traceback (most recent call last): \   File "<string>", line 1, in <module> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> \   [Previous line repeated 996 more times] \ RecursionError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
< 1642201061 965140 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :vs.
< 1642201063 236266 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"α = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z));K = α(α)(α(α(α))(α)(α)(α))(α)(α(α));I = α(K)(α);print(I(I) == I)"
< 1642201064 662116 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :True
< 1642201118 689666 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :... and other more complex variations where I used magic tokens to id my functions, but don't transfer well over IRC bot evaluation :)
< 1642201293 338042 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"a = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z)); print(a(a(a(a(a))(a)))(a(a(a))(a))(lambda _: lambda _: lambda _: 42)([])([])([]))"
< 1642201294 830685 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :42
< 1642201380 2122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the extra  lambda _:  avoid calling the `int` object; now it's calling that lambda instead)
< 1642201392 832737 :monoxane!~monoxane@user/monoxane QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)
< 1642201418 383354 :monoxane!~monoxane@user/monoxane JOIN #esolangs monoxane :monoxane
< 1642201426 879532 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"a = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z)); print(a(a(a(a(a))(a)))(a(a(a))(a))(lambda a: lambda b: lambda c: [a,b,c,42])("a")("b")("c"))"
< 1642201428 510442 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Traceback (most recent call last): \   File "<string>", line 1, in <module> \ NameError: name 'b' is not defined
< 1642201446 280139 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` python3 -c"a = lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(lambda _: z)); print(a(a(a(a(a))(a)))(a(a(a))(a))(lambda a: lambda b: lambda c: [a,b,c,42])('a')('b')('c'))"
< 1642201447 763536 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​['a', 'b', 'c', 42]
< 1642201474 867807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you can check that the lambdas don't come from the a(lpha) too.
< 1642201512 436364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in any case, the diagnosis is still too much strictness :)
< 1642202093 540478 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :how does Haskell cope with that I(I)?
< 1642202155 418497 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :What I have there is a symbolic evaluator that does leftmost outermost reduction.
< 1642202226 174988 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You could do the same thing in Python and it would cope with it just as well.
< 1642202363 365576 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :as for how lazy evaluation works... there's special support for suspended computations deep down in Haskell's implementation (STG, the spineless, tagless G-machine; there's papers)
< 1642202409 27551 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry, just going back to "Note how there's a `0^... just before the last line, that gets erased in the final step?"  You mean the line "^`^1```0^```α`ααα^2^....." ?
< 1642202431 859368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1642202487 361344 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that 0 refers to the outermost lambda, so you will have put a 0: int there.
< 1642202492 576011 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :I noticed when I ran I(fn) where fn was something that printed to stdout, it got called 5 times (IIRC)
< 1642202714 87582 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, and the other variation of the strangeness that I think I'm seeing is that I(SKS) appears to be an infinite loop, without errors. While I(SKK) gives me the max recursion error.
< 1642202967 923132 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's just down to lazy evaluation sidestepping an infinite loop? ... and python falls into it for not being lazy?
< 1642203051 587562 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :That seems less mysterious, if that's the case.
< 1642203098 707554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :where "lazy evaluation" is less about Haskell and more about explicit leftmost outermost reduction
< 1642203147 829385 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which is not exactly lazy evaluation; it loses sharing)
< 1642203182 248280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but that's only relevant for performance, not for termination)
< 1642203407 839483 :salpynx!~salpynx@118-92-208-231.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there terminology to distinguish between an  I = ``α`α``α`ααα``α`ααα that requires explicit leftmost outermost reduction to return a result in some cases, and I = ``α``α`αα``````α`αααααααα , which seems to be less picky?
< 1642203569 353028 :DHeadshot!~smuxi@cpc121954-woki8-2-0-cust72.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer