00:22:27 <esolangs> [[SolboScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92238&oldid=92222 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+11) Completed the syntax of the BWEEE command which lacked the usual (variable) portion.
00:46:45 <esolangs> [[Category:Brainfuck equivalents]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92239&oldid=89555 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) facilites -> facilities
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01:21:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:Yoctostack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92240 * Salpynx * (+721) /* Branching */ new section
01:21:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:TinyBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92241&oldid=92237 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+431) /* Category Brainfuck_equivalents */ reply
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01:23:05 <esolangs> [[TinyBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92242&oldid=92193 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35) equivalent
01:23:37 <esolangs> [[PocketBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92243&oldid=92220 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35) yes it is
01:24:23 <esolangs> [[InstructionPointerBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92244&oldid=92219 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35) it is
01:41:10 <kit-ten> lol psdw is on a roll
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02:50:02 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47/WIP]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92245&oldid=91912 * DigitalDetective47 * (-76) 
02:50:35 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92246&oldid=91904 * DigitalDetective47 * (-81) Removed link to current project as it has been moved to its final location.
02:58:51 <esolangs> [[Cratefuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92247 * DigitalDetective47 * (+6741) Created page with ":''This article is currently incomplete, and will be moved to '''Cratefuck''' upon completion.'' '''Cratefuck''' is an esoteric programming language created by User:DigitalD..."
02:59:17 <esolangs> [[Cratefuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92248&oldid=92247 * DigitalDetective47 * (-97) Removed erroneous article incomplete message.
03:00:06 <esolangs> [[Cratefuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92249&oldid=92248 * DigitalDetective47 * (+0) /* Program structure */ Adjusted the formatting of the word rooms
03:16:41 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92250&oldid=91828 * DigitalDetective47 * (+1578) Add Cratefuck
03:21:12 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92251&oldid=92201 * DigitalDetective47 * (+16) /* C */ Add Cratefuck
03:29:01 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92252&oldid=92246 * DigitalDetective47 * (+337) Add Cratefuck
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06:01:14 <imode> is the join calculus turing complete?
06:01:37 <imode> do we have like, a proof for that.
06:03:13 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join-calculus "espite this limitation, the join-calculus is as expressive as the full π-calculus." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi-calculus#Turing_completeness
06:11:20 <imode> I wonder if there's a higher order version of this, where the reaction rules themselves are molecules.
06:11:22 <imode> hm.
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08:19:36 <esolangs> [[User talk:Photon Niko]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92253 * Photon Niko * (+52) talk
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09:03:50 <b_jonas> I have a question that maybe you #esolangs have already met and know the answer off-hand. 
09:05:10 <b_jonas> Suppose you get as inputs two rational numbers given as numerator and denominator pairs. You want to compute their bitwise and, as if you wrote them as binary fractions and took bitwise and of the corresponding digits with same weights, then express the answer as a reduced fraction with shortest numerator and denominator. 
09:05:54 <b_jonas> How long can the numerator and denominator of the result be? I know it's at most exponentially longer than the input numerators and denominators, but do we know if it can actually be that long? Or is there a smaller bound for some reason?
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09:44:47 <tromp> please use variables to clarify your problem. are you asking about  (a and c) /(b and d) from two fractions a/b and c/d ?
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09:45:55 <tromp> there's no increase in number's size there
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10:51:13 <fizzie> I thought the question was clear enough. Given a/b and c/d, write both a/b and c/d as binary fractions (101010.00110011...), do a bitwise and of all corresponding bits, and represent the result as x/y.
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10:51:42 <wib_jonas> tromp: no
10:51:47 <wib_jonas> but I should give examples
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11:00:18 <tromp> that makes more sense, @fizzie
11:06:53 <tromp> the effect should be the same as adding fractions; numbers at most double in size (#digits)
11:07:42 <tromp> if one fraction repeats every x bits, and the other every y bits, then their and (xor, or) repeats every x*y bits
11:12:22 <wib_jonas> I should try to implement it and experiment with fractions that have a long period
11:13:36 <wib_jonas> tromp: the problem is that if the denominator is q, then in some bad cases the fraction can be O(q) digits long, or more precisely phi(q) where phi is the Euler phi function. that's where the exponential comes in
11:15:05 <wib_jonas> in particular, in decimal the repeating part of 1/7 has 6 digits, and the repeating part of 1/19 has 18 digits
11:15:31 <wib_jonas> these are decimal, and we need binary instead, so 1/7 or 1/19 needn't be the worst cases, but the general idea is the same
11:15:37 <wib_jonas> that's where the exponential comes in
11:17:27 <fizzie> Yeah, but if the denominator *values* are n and m (so lengths log n and log m), the maximum periods are n-1 and m-1 respectively; after the and operation, the result has a period of at most n*m, so the denominator value is also at most n*m; and its length is therefore log n*m = log n + log m, or the sum of the lengths of the inputs.
11:17:54 <fizzie> Or something along those very handwavy lines.
11:20:15 <wib_jonas> OEIS says http://oeis.org/A006883 for decimal,
11:20:49 <wib_jonas> which points to http://oeis.org/A001122
11:21:34 <wib_jonas> those aren't necessarily the only cases to care about here, but they're probably where I should start experimenting
11:26:29 <tromp> so the idea is that in a/b,c/d, the cycle lengths are O(b) and O(d), while in and(a/b,d/d), the cycle length of O(bd) is sublinear (maybe even logarithmic) in the new denominator
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12:20:21 <kit-ten> i want to make an esolang based on sounds but i have no idea where to start
12:20:51 <kit-ten> idk if i want it to be about pitches or amplitude or both
12:25:20 <Taneb> I'd think about what being based on sounds lets you do that more conventional languages wouldn't be able to
12:25:55 <kit-ten> MULTITHREADDEDNESS
12:26:05 <kit-ten> by having band pass filters
12:26:17 <kit-ten> to filter out the threads
12:26:27 <kit-ten> and commands would be amplitude
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14:14:20 <wib_jonas> if I calculate correctly, 1/29 & 2/29 = 318/158369, with the above mentioned bitwise or on rationals
14:18:52 <wib_jonas> in fact you can get a bit better, 1/29 & 4/29 = 275720/268435455
14:19:05 <riv> I think that bitwise or basically gives you a random number <= the two numbers
14:19:31 <riv> sorry, not <=, >= , but < the next power of 2
14:20:05 <riv> so I would not really expect any pattern or bound beyond the bound you would get from analyzing a random version
14:26:09 <wib_jonas> riv: it's not a random version. I deliberately chose a bad divisor. in particular, 1/43 & 2/43 = 40/5461, and that's the worst you can get with 43 as the divisor. so not all divisors are that bad.
14:28:12 <wib_jonas> similarly bitwise anding two numbers with divisor 89, you only get four decimal digit divisors. but 1/83 & 2/83 = 1428779509760/182518930210733 is fifteen digits.
14:28:38 <wib_jonas> but all this is preliminary, I'll have to check those calculations properly later
14:32:02 <tromp> 1/29 & 4/29 = 488/475107
14:32:57 <wib_jonas> er yes indeed
14:33:03 <wib_jonas>  pasted that wrong
14:33:14 <wib_jonas> I pasted the non-simplified form
14:41:23 <esolangs> [[XAH]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92254&oldid=85940 * LegionMammal978 * (+24) cat
14:47:46 <wib_jonas> and 1/121 & 2/121 = 1670295609603574/4359484439294640007 a long result with non-prime divisor
14:51:59 <wib_jonas> http://oeis.org/A139099 may be relevant on a pure numeric basis
14:52:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Fgsilver *  New user account
14:52:54 <wib_jonas> or http://oeis.org/A179383 , who knows
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15:05:44 <wib_jonas> the original idea was to consider an esoteric language that has rational number arithmetic built in, so I was wondering what operations it would need to have. obviously it would have rational constants, add/subtract, multiply/divide, lessthan/lessequal/equal/notequal, min/max, then I thought you should throw in gcd/lcm (so you can easily extract
15:05:44 <wib_jonas> the denominator of x like x/gcd(1,x)). then I thought it should have bitwise operations too like a normal language that has integer arithmetic built in, and wondered about the consequences of that.
15:06:16 <riv> well, there's fractran!
15:06:28 <riv> so i think your idea could work great
15:07:45 <wib_jonas> also it would need floor/ceil or some kind of integer division and modulo
15:07:58 <wib_jonas> (any of the lots of variants with different rounding)
15:08:35 <wib_jonas> I wasn't thinking of fractran, this was for an idea different from that, and it probably doesn't even need rational numbers, but my thoughts led to a weird place
15:09:04 <esolangs> [[User:DigitalDetective47]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92255&oldid=92252 * DigitalDetective47 * (+154) /* Languages */ Changed sort values of personal rating category
15:09:06 <wib_jonas> but apparently there's a good reason why you don't include bitwise operations when computing with rational numbers, because the resutls can be too long
15:11:51 <wib_jonas> so suddenly it got esoteric in a very different way than I started from
15:17:08 <wib_jonas> though of course you could just add bitwise operations that only take the integer parts of the input
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16:20:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92256&oldid=92151 * Fgsilver * (+170) 
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17:40:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * CappyIsCrappy *  New user account
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17:57:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:QuineLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92257 * Fgsilver * (+172) Created page with "I think this might be Turing complete. The commands `<>+-[]` do the same in brainfuck. ~~~~"
17:58:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92258&oldid=92256 * CappyIsCrappy * (+241) 
17:58:39 <esolangs> [[User:CappyIsCrappy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92259 * CappyIsCrappy * (+203) Created page with "Hello for all you guys! Yeah, i like how my username explains everything about cappy in Mario odyssey. ~~~~"
18:06:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92260&oldid=92258 * CappyIsCrappy * (+22) 
18:07:14 <esolangs> [[User:CappyIsCrappy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92261&oldid=92259 * CappyIsCrappy * (+22) 
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18:34:01 <zzo38> Can a adjacency matrix be used to canonize a unlabeled graph (even without storing the adjacency matrix, possibly)?
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18:43:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: if you mean both the vertexes and edges are unlabeled, the kind of no, as in not in a way that's both fast and uses a simple algorithm. the problem is that a fast algorithm would imply that you can solve the graph isomorphism problem fast, and while that is probably possible, we don't have an algorithm known for it.
18:45:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: if you are willing to spend exponential time, then yes, you can absolutely canonicalize the graph: just consider all node permutations, permute the matrix rows and columns according to it, and take whichever permuted adj'cy matrix is lexicographically the first among all permutations.
18:50:52 <int-e> "exponential time" can often be fast. e.g. https://pallini.di.uniroma1.it/
18:52:39 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, we can solve all practical cases quickly
18:53:03 <int-e> (They focus on finding graph automorphisms, but the same techniques can also be used to canonicalize graphs)
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18:55:57 <int-e> (as usual I'm only looking at partial context)
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19:26:08 <zzo38> OK, that is what I thought
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21:37:35 <esolangs> [[Ppencode]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92262&oldid=87938 * LegionMammal978 * (+87) fix dead links
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21:41:00 <esolangs> [[Aboba]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92263&oldid=89142 * LegionMammal978 * (+14) fix title
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22:14:30 <esolangs> [[Udymts]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92264&oldid=87313 * LegionMammal978 * (+14) fix title
22:33:00 <esolangs> [[User:Bo Tie]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92265&oldid=80181 * Bo Tie * (-59) 
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