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00:04:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[ZZZ]] to [[Zzz]]: fix title
00:04:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Talk:ZZZ]] to [[Talk:Zzz]]: fix title
00:05:05 <esolangs> [[Zzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92270&oldid=92266 * LegionMammal978 * (+14) fix title
00:08:10 <esolangs> [[Zzz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92271&oldid=92270 * LegionMammal978 * (-3) fix link
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00:15:11 <esolangs> [[Ppencode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92272&oldid=92262 * LegionMammal978 * (-36) argh
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01:48:28 <esolangs> [[EPL Main]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92273&oldid=91727 * LegionMammal978 * (+56) add link
01:52:17 <Soni> how many states would you need to describe a modern computer as a FSM?
01:53:40 <Corbin> It's the obvious answer; there's not much symmetry, aside from maybe dividing out the permutations from general-purpose registers.
01:54:03 <kit-ten> 2^(sum of total memory including disks in bits)
01:55:34 <kit-ten> which is some really large number that is not reasonably calculatable
01:57:34 <Soni> 2^(8*2^(bus width))?
01:58:18 <Soni> who needs disk space
01:58:37 <Soni> besides, 48-bit is about 256TiB
01:58:47 <Soni> 64-bit already includes all your disk space
01:58:57 <kit-ten> my pc has so little ram that it pretty much needs swap
01:59:02 <int-e> <please insert disk 23132555123>
01:59:21 <kit-ten> once i tried using a floppy disk as swap
01:59:47 <Corbin> Soni: What's your goal? The biggest space that you can reasonably explore is 64-bit floating-point numbers, I'd estimate.
01:59:50 <Soni> 1.44MB swap vs 64KiB RAM?
02:00:57 <Soni> are there even 8-bit micros with multitasking OSes?
02:00:57 <int-e> Soni: Do you know what an "overlay" is from that 640kb era?
02:01:57 <Soni> int-e: not really, we weren't alive at the time
02:02:27 <kit-ten> i wasnt alive when floppy disks were commonly used at all but here we are
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02:02:43 <kit-ten> ayyy howdy razetime, didnt know u were here
02:03:21 <Soni> somehow we did manage to catch ppl using windows 95 tho
02:03:35 <Soni> or well, one person
02:03:58 <kit-ten> this post was made by the ms dos gang
02:04:06 <Soni> XP was just better for the most part
02:04:09 <int-e> Soni: basically when your code was too big people made that part swappable... you could load an "overlay" a kind of module into its own code segment on demand and then jump into it... (they were relocatable via segment registers)
02:04:53 <int-e> kit-ten: 364 is odd, are you sure it isn't 384?
02:04:58 <kit-ten> soni i must agree yea but if youre more technically inclined slitaz is the way to go
02:06:01 <Soni> int-e: segment registers are weird and we're glad we never had to deal with them
02:06:24 <int-e> Soni: heh have a look at how thread local storage works on x86 and x86-64
02:06:57 <Soni> int-e: we thought those just used page tables
02:07:33 <int-e> they don't. which is a good thing, because you can switch between threads of the same process without changing page tables
02:08:27 <int-e> though there are several ways to design around that
02:08:38 <kit-ten> soni you and a couple people often refer to themselves as "we" and i wondered why, is it just a habit or is it something to fit with they/them pronouns bc theyre plural too
02:08:57 <int-e> but x86 had segment registers... so *one* of them still survives for that purpose. the others are there but have madatory values.
02:09:02 <Soni> kit-ten: they/them pronouns aren't necessarily plural - "themself" vs "themselves"
02:09:26 <Soni> kit-ten: https://morethanone.info/
02:10:12 <int-e> (or is it two? I'm not sure whether both fs and gs can be used for these things or not)
02:10:47 <Soni> int-e: well that's just sad
02:10:47 <int-e> anyway, they have little to do with segments from the 16 bit x86 era.
02:11:10 <int-e> uh, that's not narrow enough. real mode, specifically.
02:11:19 <Soni> page tables are great for real thread-local storage
02:11:33 <int-e> 286's protected mode had segments with more or less arbitrary base addresses, but no pages.
02:12:28 <Soni> means the TLS doesn't leak to other threads
02:12:52 <int-e> I wonder... can x86-64 switch threads in userspace?
02:13:04 <int-e> but isolating threads against one another is a fool's errand
02:13:23 <int-e> they share the whole memory map after all, why exclude the TLS?
02:13:28 <shachaf> What is thread switching? Are you including setting the segment register?
02:13:52 <int-e> yeah, I mean reloading ... fs, I think.
02:14:10 <int-e> historically that's a user space operation
02:14:17 <shachaf> Certainly people implement userspace threads, but usually in that case you still want per-OS-thread TLS and per-userspace-thread TLS.
02:14:25 <Soni> int-e: oh no they share the TLS memory map too it would just map to different physical memory for each thread
02:14:29 <zzo38> The words "they" and "you" are plural, but can refer to singular, too.
02:14:36 <int-e> shachaf: I mean switching OS threads within the same process
02:14:56 <int-e> not light-weight threads, that's a different can of worms
02:15:19 <fizzie> Both fs and gs survive, and IIRC Linux and Windows picked the exact opposites to use for TLS purposes.
02:15:30 <Soni> but this is all Cursed Stuff
02:15:31 <shachaf> Linux has the system call arch_prctl for setting fs.
02:15:39 <shachaf> But I don't think you can do it yourself.
02:15:47 <fizzie> And did both of them swap it between x86-32 to x86-64 to end up with the opposites again? Something like that.
02:16:05 <int-e> Soni: Well, it turns out that switching the physical pages for TLS space is just one point in the design space.
02:16:08 <shachaf> You can't even read fs in userspace, in fact, I think?
02:17:26 <Soni> (also, not gonna lie, still longing for the ability to say fuck it to stack sizes and just set everything to 256TiB and still have 65535 concurrent threads + a 256TiB heap)
02:17:27 <fizzie> There's MSRs (FSBase, GSBase) for setting the base address instead of going via a segment selector.
02:17:37 <Soni> (we have 64-bits why not use *all* of it)
02:17:59 <int-e> shachaf: I'll try to find out... the question is really, how much of what 32 bit x86 did (full segment register support, including loading them from user space) survived the transition to 64 bit.
02:19:00 <int-e> Maybe they went back and forth on this? "With the Ivy Bridge CPU generation Intel introduced a new set of instructions to access the FS and GS base registers directly from user space. These instructions are also supported on AMD Family 17H CPUs."
02:19:20 <shachaf> Oh, oh, I think I remember something about that.
02:19:23 <fizzie> FWIW, pretty sure segment selectors are still a thing for other attributes, it's just that the base addresses of memory accesses with cs/ds/es/ss are forced to zero.
02:19:55 <shachaf> I think in Linux the standard thing to do is to write the value of %fs to %fs:0, so you can just read it from there.
02:19:59 <int-e> fizzie: well, the associated descriptor tables (GDT, LDT) are gone in 64 bit mode.
02:20:56 <fizzie> 3.5.2 "Segment Descriptor Tables in IA-32e Mode" says so.
02:21:02 <Soni> (well, 65534 threads if you want a 256TiB TLS too)
02:21:19 <zzo38> Should the operating system emulate the instruction if the CPU is a older one without the instruction (or if it has but is not allowed in user mode)?
02:21:25 <fizzie> Yes, IA-32e mode means x86-64.
02:21:46 <zzo38> Why does it say "IA-32e" then?
02:21:53 <Soni> (which, by the way, would be EXTREMELY useful! have you ever tried writing .so plugins in rust only to find you keep running out of TLS?)
02:21:59 <fizzie> Because that's what Intel decided to call it, before EM64T, and then Intel 64.
02:22:05 <int-e> hrm, okay that confuses me.
02:22:16 <fizzie> It stands for "IA-32 extensions", because it's *extended* from that, as opposed to something like Itanium.
02:23:45 <fizzie> "System descriptors are expanded to 16 bytes (occupying the space of two entries). GDTR and LDTR registers are expanded to hold 64-bit base address." And so on.
02:24:46 <fizzie> 5.2.1 "Code-Segment Descriptor in 64-bit Mode" "Code segments continue to exist in 64-bit mode even though, for address calculations, the segment base is treated as zero."
02:25:19 <int-e> Ah, the stacks for each privilege level survive in the TSS, so TSSs have to continue to exist, so the GDT has to continue to exist...
02:25:36 <fizzie> "Some code-segment (CS) descriptor content (the base address and limit fields) is ignored; the remaining fields function normally (except for the readable bit in the type field). Code segment descriptors and selectors are needed in IA-32e mode to establish the processor's operating mode and execution privilege-level."
02:26:38 <fizzie> The bit switching between 64-bit mode and compatibility mode is also in the selected CS descriptor.
02:28:02 <fizzie> I think I got the impression that you could still load FS and GS base addresses via the descriptor tables, too, but other ways of doing it (like those MSRs) were added as well. Never really gotten too deep on the lore.
02:32:49 <fizzie> Oh, it was a little more subtle than that. You can load a 32-bit address via descriptors, but you need to do something else to load a full 64-bit base address.
02:33:19 <int-e> Yeah I got there: "Normal segment loads (MOV to Sreg and POP Sreg) into FS and GS load a standard 32-bit base value in the hidden portion of the segment register. The base address bits above the standard 32 bits are cleared to 0 to allow consistency for implementations that use less than 64 bits."
02:34:04 <int-e> ...so code segments are still a thing?
02:35:29 <fizzie> Yeah. "Software with CPL = 0 (privileged software) can load all supported linear-address bits into FS.base or GS.base using WRMSR." Plus those new {RD,WR}{FS,GS}BASE instructions you mentioned for "avoid[in]g the overhead of the arch_prctl() syscall and allow[ing] more flexible usage of the FS/GS addressing modes in user space applications", to quote from
02:35:31 <fizzie> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/x86/x86_64/fsgs.html
02:36:32 <fizzie> (How did that 'g' end up outside the brackets?)
02:36:59 <int-e> Oh you quoted this... code segments exist but the base is treated as 0.
02:37:37 <int-e> ] and g are on two different hands?
02:38:51 <int-e> (Oh I'm assuming US layout)
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02:39:44 <int-e> (not that this is different in the other layouts I know, but I'd be less likely to type g and altgr-8 or whatever it would be for DE out of order)
02:40:11 <int-e> (for example, of course)
02:40:58 <fizzie> Yeah, it's altgr-9 in the Finnish one. Makes all those things that hardcode [] for a shortcut to cycle through things a little annoying.
02:41:52 <int-e> *checking* yeah altgr-8 would be right
02:42:22 <int-e> (one of the more annoying things when I switched was that () are shift-8 and shift-9 on the DE layout...)
02:42:43 <fizzie> We (well, I'm not using it any more, so they) have {[]} in that order as the level-3 shift characters of 7890. And () as shift-8/9 too.
02:42:57 <int-e> so I had trouble with parentheses for a while
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02:43:20 <int-e> and yeah, DE does the same for {[]}
02:44:06 <int-e> It's the curly braces in particular that drove me to the US layout.
02:45:15 <int-e> (before, I placed my right thumb on Alt-Gr and then the right index finger on the 7, that's not very ergonomic)
02:47:13 <int-e> or maybe s/index finger/middle finger/, I'm not sure
02:56:50 <esolangs> [[Potatoscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92274&oldid=88388 * LegionMammal978 * (+14) fix title
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03:42:33 <esolangs> [[WikiFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92275&oldid=88507 * LegionMammal978 * (+77) fix formatting
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04:18:02 <int-e> alsamixer is back to looking awful, wtf did they change this time...
04:35:58 <int-e> Mumble. They added a `set background <color>` option. What are the chances that this broke the more elaborate coloring offered through `color <elment> ...`?
04:39:21 <int-e> pretty damn good is what they are
04:41:54 <esolangs> [[Hoverfly]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92276&oldid=91966 * LegionMammal978 * (-20) fix title
04:55:10 <int-e> (cf. https://github.com/alsa-project/alsa-utils/issues/137 )
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05:04:34 <esolangs> [[Sleep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92277&oldid=89068 * LegionMammal978 * (+24) add cat
05:35:28 <esolangs> [[Lananang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92278&oldid=89357 * LegionMammal978 * (+24) add cat
05:46:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Gravitasumma]] to [[GravitaSumma]]: fix title
05:47:06 <esolangs> [[GravitaSumma]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92281&oldid=92279 * LegionMammal978 * (+14) fix title
05:48:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Madlad]] to [[MadLad]]: fix title
05:48:26 <esolangs> [[MadLad]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92284&oldid=92282 * LegionMammal978 * (-10) fix title
05:49:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Yoctostack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92285&oldid=92240 * Otesunki * (+509) /* Branching */
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06:18:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:BiTrax]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92286 * Peter * (+37) Created page with "How do you know it's Turing complete?"
06:18:30 <esolangs> [[Talk:BiTrax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92287&oldid=92286 * Peter * (+77)
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08:47:29 <esolangs> [[Yoctostack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92288&oldid=92217 * Otesunki * (+2719)
08:48:03 <esolangs> [[Yoctostack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92289&oldid=92288 * Otesunki * (+3)
08:49:43 <esolangs> [[Yoctostack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92290&oldid=92289 * Otesunki * (+0) REGROUP TABLE DUE TO READABILITY COMPLAINTS FROM MORTALS
08:50:01 <esolangs> [[SMETANA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92291&oldid=73561 * Sigmundur * (+279) Added more detail how it's run
08:50:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Yoctostack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92292&oldid=92285 * Otesunki * (+147)
08:51:37 <esolangs> [[SMETANA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92293&oldid=92291 * Sigmundur * (+130)
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12:24:36 <wib_jonas> "And did both of them swap it between x86-32 to x86-64 to end up with the opposites again?" => wait what?
12:26:12 <wib_jonas> int-e: IIUC, x86_64 is designed that you can run an x86_64 and x86_32 code in the same process and address space at user level, jumping between them with long jumps, and this does actually happen on x86_64 win32, but can't on Linux because the kernel doesn't have support for it and kernel support is required
12:29:12 <wib_jonas> it's not that it would be impossible to make it work in Linux if you modified the kernel, but it would have so few uses and so many bugs that it's just not worth to support
12:29:24 <wib_jonas> but from the point of view of the CPU architecture itself it makes sense to support this
12:35:40 <fizzie> wib_jonas: AIUI, on Linux (at least for glibc-based systems), on i386 the %gs segment base is where the user-space thread structure lives, and is used for TLS. On x86-64, that's changed to use %fs instead. By contrast, the Win32 "Thread Information Block" is located using the %fs segment register on 32-bit systems, and %gs on 64-bit ones.
12:36:13 <fizzie> First few random Google hits on this (https://wiki.osdev.org/Thread_Local_Storage for the former, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32_Thread_Information_Block for the latter) would seem to agree.
12:38:35 <fizzie> The structures would obviously be entirely incompatible anyway, so I don't think there's any particular consequences from them being the opposites, I just found it amusing that both changed in the 32-bit/64-bit transition to stay as opposites. (Although maybe it has some implications for Wine?)
12:39:16 <wib_jonas> sure, I don't think it has any bad consequences or anything, especially after the x86_32 are already different
12:40:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:QuineLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92294&oldid=92257 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+440) Reply
12:40:34 <wib_jonas> x86_64 win32 and x86_32 use different enough calling conventions that you almost always have to be aware of the difference when writing machine code, so using different registers for thread specific values as well doesn't matter too much
12:47:49 <esolangs> [[Mash]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92295&oldid=90172 * LegionMammal978 * (+23) add cat
12:54:43 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92296&oldid=92251 * LegionMammal978 * (+0) /* M */
13:03:18 <esolangs> [[BoolX]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92297&oldid=89894 * LegionMammal978 * (+0) fix title
13:09:05 <esolangs> [[Pinecone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92298&oldid=89932 * LegionMammal978 * (+24) add cat
13:18:22 <esolangs> [[Duh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92299&oldid=90162 * LegionMammal978 * (+14) fix title
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13:57:43 <esolangs> [[User:CappyIsCrappy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92300&oldid=92261 * CappyIsCrappy * (+86)
13:57:59 <esolangs> [[User:CappyIsCrappy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92301&oldid=92300 * CappyIsCrappy * (+2)
13:58:11 <esolangs> [[BF instruction minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92302&oldid=87087 * CappyIsCrappy * (+283)
14:05:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Palaiologos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92303&oldid=92235 * Palaiologos * (+162)
14:11:37 <kit-ten> razetime do you know what she means by "further actions"
14:12:25 <kit-ten> how can i get her to forgive me
14:18:38 <riv> are you guys from discord?
14:19:28 <Corbin> Is this off-wiki or on-wiki drama? Also, have you tried sitting down in a quiet place and deliberately not thinking of anything for a few minutes?
14:23:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Manjoos * New user account
14:24:52 <wib_jonas> I was wondering if I should create a wisdom entry saying something like "Corbin is the most frequent #esolangs regular without a wisdom entry", but then I realized
14:25:05 <wib_jonas> there's no wib_jonas wisdom entry. there's one for wob_jonas and b_jonas.
14:25:27 <wib_jonas> I guess I should just move the wob_jonas entry to wib_jonas
14:26:18 <riv> fungot: this is rather esoteric
14:26:19 <fungot> riv: _i'm_ having trouble remembering what foo was. :( only one? if the obsolete one is called syntax-rules. how does your aunt do the printing?
14:26:27 <wib_jonas> ``` mv -vi /hackenv/wisdom/w{o,i}b_jonas
14:26:30 <HackEso> renamed '/hackenv/wisdom/wob_jonas' -> '/hackenv/wisdom/wib_jonas'
14:26:34 <HackEso> wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks.
14:26:38 <esolangs> [[User:CappyIsCrappy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92304&oldid=92301 * CappyIsCrappy * (-12)
14:27:07 <wib_jonas> ``` sed -i s/wob/wib/ /hackenv/wisdom/wib_jonas
14:27:10 <HackEso> /hackenv/wisdom/wib_jonas//wib_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks.
14:27:15 <HackEso> wib_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks.
14:28:29 <wib_jonas> (there's also no wisdom entry for callforjudgement, but he also only used to be a regular like wob_jonas)
14:34:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:Palaiologos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92305&oldid=92303 * Not applicable * (+324)
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14:37:48 <Corbin> Ah, it's Discord drama.
14:38:49 <kit-ten> i did something stupid and now she hates me
14:39:19 <riv> can we kick em out
14:39:32 <riv> the person who just ignored me
14:40:06 <kit-ten> sorry i dont want to bring drama here its just that via the wiki is the only way i can talk to her
14:40:19 <riv> then don't? PM your friend to talk about it
14:56:04 <esolangs> [[Yoctostack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92306&oldid=92290 * Otesunki * (+15) bryh
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15:12:58 <wib_jonas> I did a web search about the bitwise operation on rationals thing. I didn't find much useful, but one thing that they pointed out is that if you start doing that, acting on fractional bit, then suddenly the number of all ones bit (such as you'd get from bitwise complimenting a zero) isn't …11111, but …11111.11111…. So if you're using a two's
15:12:59 <wib_jonas> compliment representation where …11111 means -1 then suddenly the old rule for bitwise compliment where ~x = -1-x changes to ~x = -x; and if you're using one's compliment where …11111 means -0 then ~x = -x changes to the weird ~x = 1-x.
15:23:39 <wib_jonas> fungot, is there such a project as Google Ear, or is that just a truncated Google Earth logo?
15:23:40 <fungot> wib_jonas: scheme needs its own record type. i like fiddling with) right now is that esoapi and easel both assume the esolang has the concept of let-keywords let-optionals quite repulsive), but
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16:16:28 <esolangs> [[Her]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92307 * Orisphera * (+3531) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Her |author=[[User:Orisphera|Orisphera]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] }} :''Note that the Russian for '''Her''' as ''''''. '''''' is not a va..."
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17:48:32 <esolangs> [[Braintuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92308&oldid=91324 * LegionMammal978 * (-7) fix interpreter
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17:58:42 <esolangs> [[BF instruction minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92309&oldid=92302 * CappyIsCrappy * (+21) /* CappyIsCrappy's attempt */
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18:44:18 <esolangs> [[Baa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92310 * CappyIsCrappy * (+2195) Created page with "{{lowercase}} '''Baa''' is a register-based esolang where each command has the form "b*insert two or more a's*" == Syntax == The syntax is very easy to understand. Also, c..."
18:44:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Baa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92311 * CappyIsCrappy * (+28) Created page with "Discuss about '''baa''' here"
18:45:43 <esolangs> [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92312&oldid=90083 * CappyIsCrappy * (+10)
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18:59:11 <esolangs> [[Baa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92313&oldid=92310 * CappyIsCrappy * (+215)
19:01:28 <esolangs> [[User:CappyIsCrappy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92314&oldid=92304 * CappyIsCrappy * (+4)
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19:28:57 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92315&oldid=92296 * CappyIsCrappy * (+10)
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19:31:38 <int-e> my alsamixer issue was fixed within 4 hours
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19:40:22 <esolangs> [[Baa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92316&oldid=92313 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) Fix title
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20:00:46 <esolangs> [[Cratefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92317&oldid=92249 * DigitalDetective47 * (+363) /* Examples */ Add truth-machine
20:04:59 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92318&oldid=92200 * DigitalDetective47 * (+359) /* Implementations */ Add cratefuck
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20:29:27 <esolangs> [[CV(N)(C)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92319&oldid=79675 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Consonants */ rename duplicate command
20:46:14 <tromp> int-e: do you know what it takes to make type L Hashable?
20:48:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Viba]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=92320 * LegionMammal978 * (+170) Created page with "Can you post the [[UCanCode]] implementation you wrote? Thanks! ~~~~"
20:48:39 <tromp> i tried instance Hashable L where hash l = hash (show l) but ghc complains about No instance for (GHC.Generics.Generic L)
20:49:01 <tromp> never mind; solved it with instance Hashable L where hashWithSalt i l = hashWithSalt i (show l) instead....
20:50:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Nutrition facts]] to [[Nutrition Facts]]: fix title
20:50:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Talk:Nutrition facts]] to [[Talk:Nutrition Facts]]: fix title
20:50:55 <esolangs> [[Nutrition Facts]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92325&oldid=92321 * LegionMammal978 * (+30) add cat
20:52:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92326&oldid=92315 * LegionMammal978 * (-13) /* T */
21:04:50 <esolangs> [[QKAS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92327&oldid=90530 * LegionMammal978 * (-90) fix link
21:10:07 <int-e> tromp: beware that my Show instance was lossy, so you may want to check that.
21:11:31 <tromp> i'm only showing normal forms; so i'mgood:)
21:12:35 <tromp> also, for hashing, loss is only an efficiency issue, not correctness one
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21:33:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Baa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92328&oldid=92311 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+239) /* Line indexing */ new section
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21:59:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * LegionMammal978 * moved [[Tobi]] to [[TobiLang]]: fix title
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22:50:32 <esolangs> [[DFA-er Finite State Automaton Proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=92331&oldid=90759 * LegionMammal978 * (+6272) replace images with wikitext
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