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00:55:04 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93090&oldid=93087 * Laclale * (+38) /* Please Porige Hot */
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01:57:05 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93091&oldid=93073 * BowlingPizzaBall * (+10)
01:58:39 <esolangs> [[Syncin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93092&oldid=93065 * BowlingPizzaBall * (+61)
02:01:45 <esolangs> [[Boyfriend.xml]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93093&oldid=93072 * BowlingPizzaBall * (+9) definitely a stub. please add proper documentation
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02:55:31 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93094&oldid=93090 * Hakerh400 * (+47) +[[Pair]]
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03:22:52 <esolangs> [[V3i]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93095&oldid=93085 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+48) /* Examples */ add links
03:23:19 <esolangs> [[V3i]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93096&oldid=93095 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) /* Deadfish */ ditto
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04:08:11 <esolangs> [[Template:Yearcat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93097&oldid=31858 * Razetime * (-46)
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08:36:18 <esolangs> [[I Wanna Be the Esolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=93098 * Razetime * (+2490) initial page
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08:54:39 <esolangs> [[I Wanna Be the Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93099&oldid=93098 * Razetime * (+2)
10:54:00 <riv> g'day
10:58:40 <riv> https://www.sudoku-puzzles-online.com/irregular-dodecadoku/print-irregular-12x12-sudoku.php
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11:37:52 <esolangs> [[I Wanna Be the Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93100&oldid=93099 * Laclale * (+22) /* Implementation */
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13:44:43 <esolangs> [[V3i]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93101&oldid=93096 * BowlingPizzaBall * (+34) h... how do you forget this?
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14:07:16 <esolangs> [[Template:Yearcat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93102&oldid=93097 * Oerjan * (+46) Undo revision 93097 by [[Special:Contributions/Razetime|Razetime]] ([[User talk:Razetime|talk]]) This change made most of year categories not actual subcategories of Category:Years
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14:08:42 <oerjan> argh
14:09:55 <oerjan> fizzie: Category:Years looks all messed up presumably due to the caching bugs
14:10:25 <oerjan> (even after i fixed that templating)
14:10:54 <oerjan> oh wait it fixed itself
14:11:01 <oerjan> just some delay i guess
14:11:45 <int-e> Oh another U:HP vandalism, sigh.
14:13:03 <esolangs> [[User:Heavpoot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93103&oldid=81904 * Oerjan * (-11) rm template which causes miscategorization
14:13:47 <oerjan> int-e: was on it hth
14:13:52 <riv> Did you know that esolang good?
14:14:03 <oerjan> riv: i does
14:15:15 <int-e> oerjan: Yeah I assumed so.
14:16:20 <oerjan> int-e: i probably wouldn't have noticed if not for the strange delay that caused me to have to check that all the years had got there
14:16:44 <oerjan> possibly that's what razetime was trying to fix
14:21:29 <int-e> mediawiki caching works in mysterious ways
14:22:09 <riv> fungot: Did you know that esolang good?
14:22:09 <fungot> riv: air france flight296. i love your bike jump, cool
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14:32:17 <int-e> Oh yesterday's and today's QC are fun, I didn't expect things to go in that direction at all.
14:33:03 <riv> QC.... hmm
14:33:13 <int-e> `? qc
14:33:17 <HackEso> QC is Quantum Computing.
14:33:23 <int-e> Ah, helpful.
14:33:26 <riv> i found it
14:33:59 <riv> I don't know how you stay up to date on these webcomics. I'm at page 440 of homestuck now
14:34:19 <int-e> `learn QC is Questionable Computing or Quantum Content, or was it the other way around?
14:34:22 <HackEso> Relearned 'qc': QC is Questionable Computing or Quantum Content, or was it the other way around?
14:36:21 <riv> Questionable Computing
14:36:24 <riv> lol
14:37:13 <int-e> riv: I have a silly scheme with bookmarks pointing to the last strip I've read. There are browser add-ons too (https://github.com/ameboide/webcomic_reader seems to be one of those) and even specialized apps.
14:39:44 <int-e> (silly and somewhat lossy... I dropped GC for almost a year before Taneb reminded me of its existence.)
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15:00:40 <riv> ok the punchline was great
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15:28:10 <esolangs> [[LayerASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93104&oldid=78399 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+406) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the LayerASM programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
15:32:57 <esolangs> [[LayerASM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93105&oldid=93104 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+306) Added an example section containing as its incipient member an infinitely repeating cat program.
15:33:52 <fizzie> I should get some statistics on whether that file cache is actually helpful for anything.
15:34:30 <fizzie> And/or schedule a periodic run of maintenance/rebuildFileCache.php or something.
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17:17:54 <esolangs> [[V3i]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93106&oldid=93101 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-30) Remove unnecessary pipe
17:18:07 <zzo38> Is it acceptable to use longjmp in the comparison function of qsort?
17:21:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think that can leak memory, but it's probably safe other than leaking memory. it's not a stable sort, so it could be implemented without allocating extra memory, but GNU libc docs specifically says it may use extra memory, and since it needs to work on large arrays, that memory won't come from the stack
17:21:50 <b_jonas> zzo38: heck, in fact it might also leave some of your array in an undefined state if you longjmp out of it
17:22:10 <b_jonas> so I wouldn't recommend longjmp out of it
17:25:00 <b_jonas> if you want to be able to longjmp out of it, then you probably have to write your own custom sort routine
17:25:36 <b_jonas> and even then it's much better if you can allocate memory and ensure to clean that up before or after the longjmp
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17:40:24 <zzo38> Well, I would not care about the state of the array in such a case anyways, but the leaking memory is a valid consideration to not do that.
18:07:35 <esolangs> [[HASSL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93107&oldid=92076 * Ethan T. Stanger * (+10)
18:15:40 <b_jonas> zzo38: you could care if the elements of the array also reference external memory or otherwise need destructors. that is, it's not just that the order of the elements is wrong in the array, it could have duplicates and missing items because items were moved to an extra region.
18:15:59 <b_jonas> and qsort is probably in rights to even write other data (not of the type you're using) temporarily in the array
18:17:16 <b_jonas> the problem is that there isn't any other sorting routine with a pre-made C interface that I can recommend instead
18:17:20 <b_jonas> you'll have to roll your own
18:17:33 <b_jonas> the algorithms that you can use themselves are of course documented in TAOCP
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19:53:41 <arseniiv> hi again!
19:55:11 <arseniiv> we have a simply typed lambda calculus with 0, 1, + and × types added as a typed equivalent of an (intuitionistic) natural deduction. What would be the analogue of sequent calculus?
19:56:35 <arseniiv> I feel it doesn’t need to be linear logic but something simpler can be made (with again just 0, 1, + and × types, and → as an intristic type too, not a defined −∘ of linear logic
19:58:23 <riv> for sequent calculus you need call/cc?
19:58:27 <arseniiv> all this was born from a question of complexity: + and × are categorically dual but to prove (A + B) + C ≅ A + (B + C) seems more complicated than to prove (A × B) × C ≅ A × (B × C)
19:59:06 <riv> hm https://mathoverflow.net/a/29597
19:59:21 <riv> i think you can prove (A + B) + C ≅ A + (B + C) using elements in an abelian category or something hth
19:59:27 <arseniiv> <riv> for sequent calculus you need call/cc? => oh that would be unfortunate :(
19:59:33 <riv> it's also provable using yoneda lemma hth
19:59:43 <riv> i think i was wrong about call/cc
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20:06:04 <arseniiv> read the answers on MO, interesting
20:06:38 <arseniiv> I came to this question exactly from defining parts of the isomorphism by pattern matching
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20:07:28 <arseniiv> in case of × we have just one pattern and in case of + we have three, for each of two functions and each of two proofs for f (g x) = x and g (f y) = y
20:07:44 <zzo38> I think I read somewhere that intuitionistic sequent calculus is avoiding more than one thing in the right, and classical can have any number of things in the right?
20:08:38 <arseniiv> so + seems 3 times more complicated by a naive sight. Of course in case of × there are more *destructors* but they don’t seem to appear and make things complex
20:09:14 <arseniiv> zzo38: yeah I read something like that too
20:10:32 <arseniiv> and then we would be asymmetrical again even there, hmm. But wait no, that avoidance is just about → rule only IIRC
20:12:59 <esolangs> [[Moaiscript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93108&oldid=91276 * Eiim * (+814) Add new, slightly shorter cat program
20:14:24 <arseniiv> I also have a strange impractical question: is SO(2) *the same* as U(1) or not. Meaning, with all structures that are commonly used with them. It boils down a bit to a question is there an i in ℂ or not. And that one can’t be answered one way or the other because sometimes we need ℂ and sometimes we need (ℂ, i)
20:15:50 <arseniiv> but I’m not feeling particularly well about what that gives
20:16:28 <arseniiv> though this is not as impractical as I said. If you define cos and sin, what do you *ought* to use, SO(2) or U(1)?
20:17:01 <arseniiv> that’s of course an incorrect question but I’m not sure it’s more than 50% unsalvageable
20:20:01 <arseniiv> also interesting trivia: you don’t need to pick i to define cos (if using U(1)). But you do for sin. Analogously, you don’t need an oriented plane for cos but you do for sin, and this way it makes an obvious sense
20:24:37 <b_jonas> arseniiv: you don't need to pick i to define sin either. sin(x) = x - x**3/6 + x**5/120 - x**7/5040 + ...
20:24:40 <Cale> arseniiv: Those are isomorphic as... almost every structure normally placed on them.
20:25:31 <arseniiv> hm wait why not to define sin to have values in ∧² of our plane haha. The problem is that it would look less independed of the plane than ℝ looks. But maybe that’s because we don’t have good notation for ℝ² without a canonical basis and we may see “a real plane” as a name for different things we might need to choose from, though they are isomorphic up to what we need and we may well treat them all as one in this case
20:26:11 <arseniiv> b_jonas: we might have picked −sin instead of sin though
20:27:01 <arseniiv> like we could have liked to have not cos' = sin but sin' = cos and that would be this second case
20:27:48 <Cale> They're not just isomorphic as groups, but also as topological groups or Lie groups
20:28:24 <Cale> The distinction has more to do with how the definition is carried out, but you end up defining the same thing.
20:28:57 <arseniiv> (in my headcanon cos is the first coordinate of a first vector of an orthonormal basis have been rotated, and sin is the second coordinate)
20:29:52 <arseniiv> Cale: whew now I feel easier that at least someone confirmed it’s no big deal that they are named in two ways
20:30:06 <arseniiv> not that I asked much though
20:30:33 <arseniiv> only here and in an other place which is not too much about math
20:30:50 <Cale> You can also take the group of unit complex numbers under multiplication (sometimes called T), or the quotient group R/Z, and those are also isomorphic to this.
20:31:29 <arseniiv> wait what’s the formal difference between T and U(1) then?
20:33:10 <Cale> U(1) is the group of unitary linear transformations C^1 -> C^1. Of course, those can be represented by 1x1 complex matrices...
20:34:59 <Cale> and 1x1 matrices behave suspiciously like their sole entry :)
20:35:22 <arseniiv> ah okay indeed I injected C into L(C, C) and forgot that technically scalar operators are different from scalars
20:36:18 <Cale> And then if we want even more confusion over distinctions that don't typically matter, is C^1 the same vector space as C or not?
20:40:15 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hakerh400 * uploaded "[[File:001-tarnary-cantor-set.png]]": Esolang "Fractal" - Example "Ternary Cantor set"
20:41:06 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Hakerh400 * moved [[File:001-tarnary-cantor-set.png]] to [[File:001-ternary-cantor-set.png]]: typo
20:44:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hakerh400 * uploaded "[[File:002-simple-tree.png]]": Esolang "Fractal" - Example "Simple tree"
20:47:17 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hakerh400 * uploaded "[[File:003-sierpinsky-carpet.png]]": Esolang "Fractal" - Example "Sierpiski carpet"
20:47:22 <arseniiv> Cale: yeah that case when I want a better notation system. As C^1 sometimes means one-tuples of numbers, in which case it has a canonical basis (1) and sometimes it means any space where we don’t care about a basis, and then the first one becomes too concrete
20:48:37 <arseniiv> also that distinction between a scalar s and an operator v ↦ s v reminded me about a peculiar case where s ↦ (v ↦ s v) is not injective
20:48:52 <arseniiv> it is when a space is 0-dimensional :D
20:49:09 <arseniiv> that’s a bit hurtful for me
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20:54:16 <arseniiv> probably like because there’s always more things than a layman would typically think there are possible, when you consider 0. But in this case there are less things! Just a single scalar operator because there’s just a single operator at all
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21:40:41 <esolangs> [[I Wanna Be the Esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93114&oldid=93100 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+125) Add categories
21:41:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Applespineapples * New user account
21:46:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hakerh400 * uploaded "[[File:004-barnsley-fern.png]]": Esolang "Fractal" - Example "Barnsley fern"
21:46:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93116&oldid=93052 * Applespineapples * (+210) abcd
21:46:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93117&oldid=93116 * Applespineapples * (-26)
21:51:03 <esolangs> [[User:Applespineapples]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=93118 * Applespineapples * (+22) Created page with "I am a Love Live! fan."
21:51:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Hakerh400 * uploaded a new version of "[[File:004-barnsley-fern.png]]": High quality version
22:01:46 <esolangs> [[Fractal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=93120 * Hakerh400 * (+4187) +[[Fractal]]
22:02:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93121&oldid=93091 * Hakerh400 * (+14) +[[Fractal]]
22:02:30 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=93122&oldid=93075 * Hakerh400 * (+14) +[[Fractal]]
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←2022-02-10 2022-02-11 2022-02-12→ ↑2022 ↑all