00:05:29 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94159&oldid=94080 * Lemonz * (+30) /* Once I make, it can go here */
00:07:53 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94160&oldid=94156 * Lemonz * (+161) /* @Everyone in action */
00:08:27 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94161&oldid=94160 * Lemonz * (-2) /* Dead chat/Errors */
00:09:33 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94162&oldid=94161 * Lemonz * (+27)
00:10:39 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94163&oldid=94162 * Lemonz * (+91) /* Commands */
00:11:45 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94164&oldid=94163 * Lemonz * (+76) /* Commands */
00:15:28 <esolangs> [[Ratsize]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94165 * Zero player rodent * (+3183) Created page with "'''Ratsize''' is a queue-based 2D [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Zero player rodent]]. == Details == In '''Ratsize''', the IP starts in the bottom right..."
00:16:28 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94166&oldid=94159 * Lemonz * (+1) /* Once I make, it can go here */
00:17:03 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94167&oldid=94166 * Lemonz * (+90) /* Once I make, it can go here */
00:18:34 <esolangs> [[User:Zero player rodent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94168&oldid=83150 * Zero player rodent * (+14)
00:46:34 <esolangs> [[David Madore]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94169&oldid=65702 * B jonas * (+19) make the statement about IOCCC sound sillier
00:47:09 <b_jonas> (not very original, I know, his writeup says the same thing, but still, I think it's better for that article)
00:54:10 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94170&oldid=94157 * WhoeverKnew123 * (+18)
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01:37:26 <esolangs> [[Zero Existance]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94171 * Lemonz * (+1171) Created page with "'''Zero Existance''' is a language that comes with a README.txt for how to use a slightly modified version of [[Burn]] and the only compiler that actually works for t..."
01:39:25 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94172&oldid=94167 * Lemonz * (+28) /* Once I try being humorous, I fail and it goes here */
02:02:40 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94173&oldid=93986 * Lemonz * (+123) /* General languages */
02:03:00 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94174&oldid=94172 * Lemonz * (-23) /* Once I try being humorous, I fail and it goes here */
02:03:17 <esolangs> [[User:Lemonz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94175&oldid=94174 * Lemonz * (-2) /* Once I make, it can go here */
02:27:37 <esolangs> [[Brainsymbol]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94176&oldid=94106 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+169) Categories
04:31:13 <zzo38> Although I had starting making zoned spreadsheet program (although not much, yet), I had consider: There should be possibility to assign a formula to a single cell, to a row or column within a zone, and to an entire zone; are there considerations of this having to do with user interface, internal data structures, file format, etc?
04:32:40 <zzo38> Another thing I had consider would be the syntax and capability of ranges. For example, to reference an entire column within another zone in the same column as this one, in the same column of cells as this one. Another example might be a range of all rows above in this zone but one column left in the same zone.
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05:51:27 <esolangs> [[(top, height)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94177&oldid=94128 * Squidmanescape * (-29)
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12:43:28 <Soni> we wish programming was touchscreen accessible sometimes
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12:45:02 <int-e> *we* wish touch screens were less common
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12:48:34 <Soni> we use pronouns
12:49:09 <Soni> but seriously why isn't there a touchscreen esolang
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12:50:21 <Corbin> There are dozens to hundreds of programmers using drawing tablets, and there are interfaces intended for a stylus.
12:50:33 <Corbin> A touchscreen is not really much different from a mouse.
12:50:38 <int-e> . o O ( To program in Fingering you need to use Rude Gestures. )
12:51:05 <Corbin> And of course it's possible to put nine buttons onto a keypad (the ninth is Backspace) for a simple Brainfuck experience.
12:51:20 <int-e> I hate that the fingers cover the spot you're trying to interact with.
12:51:29 <int-e> Mouse pointers are much better at this.
12:51:56 <Soni> just let us swipe code to delete
12:52:14 <Soni> optimize for optimization
12:52:58 <int-e> There are other issues... like leaving fingerprints (the alternative would be to wash my hands every 10 minutes or so) ...and at least with my previous tablet, trouble operating the thing when the fingers were too dry. Probably a sensitivity issue.
12:53:38 <Corbin> Why does the underlying language need to be designed for this? It's a UX issue, I think. Consider very old mainframes with "toggle entry" (term?) for booting; to enter the initial program, you'd have to flip a bank of switches to represent each word in the program, and then hit a button to execute the word, repeated for each word in the program.
12:55:05 <int-e> Yeah, it's in the same category of shallow esolang concepts as another syntax for Brainfuck...
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12:57:50 <Franciman> isn't ux part of language design, Corbin ?
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12:58:34 <Franciman> if it isn't, it means that you delegated that part to somebody else
12:58:38 <int-e> but many people here care more about semantics
12:58:39 <Soni> is visual programming (scratch, blockly, etc) not esolang?
13:01:23 <sknebel> hm, not sure they are esolangs or not. I guess in some parts they are (trying unusual things), but the goal is not necessarily to explore those but to achieve some other useful thing?
13:02:02 <sknebel> also a bit of a gradient between "language optimized for touch editing" vs "touch optimized editor for a language"
13:03:13 <sknebel> e.g. a language with flow graphs etc is clearly "visual", vs a block-y editor with templates for a textual language
13:03:38 <sknebel> e.g. scratch is structurally something you could also type, it just replaces typing with blocks
13:04:10 <sknebel> (afaik, not looked at it in detail in ages)
13:07:52 <int-e> I have an idea why programming languages are still mostly textual; it's connected to information density. Because, in the end, you track *a lot* of information when programming, and it helps to have as much of it on screen as possible at each moment in time. And there, text wins over graphics.
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13:12:41 <Soni> have you ever used an on screen keyboard?
13:12:56 <int-e> I don't program on tablets.
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13:13:24 <int-e> Computers have keyboards. If they don't, they don't count. :-P
13:13:37 <Soni> not everyone can use a keyboard
13:23:11 <Corbin> Franciman: One of the important ideas in UX is "input methods", or HCI "human-computer interfaces". These methods are partially language-dependent, but they implement patterns which are not language-dependent.
13:29:38 <fizzie> Neal Stephenson, in Snow Crash, on the topic of visual programming: https://0x0.st/oNkI.txt
13:29:40 <fizzie> (Opinions expressed may not reflect mine.)
13:33:25 <Corbin> It's interesting that he mentions dimensionality. Text doesn't have to be one- or two-dimensional; that's entirely up to conventions.
13:35:15 <b_jonas> most of the text on my shelves is three-dimensional. it's printed in books that have pages, the pages have lines, the lines have characters
13:35:55 <b_jonas> the two-dimensional ones are out on the street, annoying election campaign ads.
13:39:58 <Corbin> That's an interesting idea. Most of my books contain two-dimensional text; exceptions include GEB and "House of Leaves". Maybe some of the comic books count; "Watchmen", maybe?
13:41:09 <b_jonas> you books have two-dimensional text rather than three? are they all rolled-up codexes?
13:42:17 <Corbin> They might as well be. Often they're only one-dimensional; text could be reflowed on each page and inside each paragraph without issues. The music books and some code books, like the OpenGL books, couldn't be reflowed like that; they're 2D.
13:42:35 <Taneb> They're 2D but with page-wrapping
13:43:43 <Corbin> "House of Leaves" has 3D whitespace structures inside the book. The whitespace persists from page to page, like a 3D printer. GEB has 2D images in the center of its 3D pages. "Watchmen" has similar 3D positioning inside its chapters, when bound as a single omnibus.
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14:03:13 <esolangs> [[Stacks of Queues]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=94178 * Jemhunter * (+10423) Created page, including specification for the language.
14:05:15 <esolangs> [[Stacks of Queues]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94179&oldid=94178 * Jemhunter * (-4) Moved links to headers of examples
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16:02:51 <HackEso> 1/1:81) <fax> sekuoir: that's just gay sex <sekuoir> I am learning though! \ 1258) <shachaf> pikhq: The Google way isn't exactly NIH. They have their own variant of it.
16:03:26 <pikhq> Oh is that what I did with that one guy?
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16:29:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dokken * New user account
16:29:45 <HackEso> 1259) <ais523> editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim versus everything else <ais523> normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe
16:29:58 <fizzie> Just wanted to confirm there was a single-quote analogue of `".
16:30:13 <fizzie> Would've been weird if there wasn't, but you never know here.
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17:22:42 <zzo38> I don't like touch screen so much; keyboard (and sometimes also the mouse in addition to keyboard) is better, I think.
17:40:49 <esolangs> [[Broccoli]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94180&oldid=94028 * Mathieucaroff * (+24)
17:49:51 <esolangs> [[Broccoli]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94181&oldid=94180 * Mathieucaroff * (+7)
17:49:57 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94182&oldid=94026 * Mathieucaroff * (+91)
17:56:26 <pikhq> int-e: i mean it was sex, and pretty gay, so
17:56:38 <pikhq> and we were both googlers at the time,
18:29:42 <int-e> pikhq: I don't know your many aliases
18:30:29 <pikhq> i'm just shitposting at the implication that google nih'd gay sex
18:31:21 <int-e> Okay. So "...not exactly?" still seems to be an apt reply to me :-P
18:31:45 <int-e> Because it chimes in with the "They have their own variant of it." part :-P
18:31:52 <int-e> Which is how I intended it.
18:39:16 * pikhq should probably work instead of irc
18:39:22 <pikhq> not that'll necessarily stop me
19:23:46 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94183&oldid=94182 * Celtschk * (+349) /* Sophie */ added SOS
19:33:38 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94184&oldid=93937 * Celtschk * (+156) /* Sortle */ Added SOS
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20:49:09 <esolangs> [[Shuffle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=94185&oldid=84587 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Loop */ https
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