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00:12:21 <esolangs> [[User:Salpynx/Galveston]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97511&oldid=97510 * Salpynx * (+45) formatting
00:18:33 <esolangs> [[User:Salpynx/Galveston]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97512&oldid=97511 * Salpynx * (+121) /* External resources */ link to omega-word comiler and interactive engine
00:20:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Salpynx *  moved [[User:Salpynx/Galveston]] to [[Galveston]]: spec is as complete as it'll ever be and interpreter works well enough to prove the basic concept
00:26:21 <esolangs> [[Galveston]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97515&oldid=97513 * Salpynx * (+108) /* External resources */  Some categories, but this doesn't fit into many of the current ones.
00:27:52 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97516&oldid=97472 * Salpynx * (+16) /* G */ add Galveston -language
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02:10:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Poobob *  New user account
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02:12:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97517&oldid=97506 * Poobob * (+143) 
02:12:28 <esolangs> [[User:Poobob]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=97518 * Poobob * (+2) Created page with "hi"
02:51:10 <zzo38> Some unofficial Magic: the Gathering cards might be interesting making puzzles involving them (in addition to official cards too). While, other puzzles can be made using only official cards.
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06:24:34 <zzo38> (For example, the card I had made which is "Two target permanents copy each other, and then exchange control of those permanents.")
06:29:21 <shachaf> You could also make puzzles using only unofficial cards, and ban all official cards.
06:39:29 <zzo38> Yes, that is possible too, but would usually not be the way to do.
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06:57:04 <shachaf> You could also make a puzzle using only unofficial rules and unofficial cards, without any official rules or cards.
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08:04:01 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97519&oldid=97229 * Masalt * (+52) /* Coming Soon */
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08:42:42 <int-e> So... unofficial puzzles?!
08:44:57 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97520&oldid=97519 * Masalt * (-16) /* Languages */
08:45:20 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97521&oldid=97212 * Masalt * (+51) /* masalt's top languages: */
08:50:13 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97522&oldid=97467 * Masalt * (+31) 
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09:25:31 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97523&oldid=97522 * Masalt * (-6) /* Truth Machine */
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09:36:52 <esolangs> [[Bundle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97524&oldid=97498 * Lanksy * (+88) 
09:39:23 <esolangs> [[Bundle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97525&oldid=97524 * Lanksy * (+9) whoops
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09:41:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97526&oldid=97517 * Nick-1666 * (-143) 
09:42:40 <esolangs> [[User:Nick-1666]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=97527 * Nick-1666 * (+7) Created page with "Bonjour"
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10:31:52 <esolangs> [[Idego]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97528&oldid=97405 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-12) 
10:38:52 <esolangs> [[Schwa]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97529&oldid=97411 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+68) 
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10:47:45 <b_jonas> for how long does Debian 10 get security updates?
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10:50:28 <int-e> it'll ender LTS this July: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
10:50:34 <int-e> enter even
10:53:24 <b_jonas> thanks
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10:54:26 <b_jonas> I should figure out when to upgrade to 11
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11:02:28 <kspalaiologos> having messed with BLC a little it's a really cool esolang
11:03:40 <kspalaiologos> i wonder how feasible would it be to have BCL with more combinators. the presence of the I combinator often makes programs smaller even when accounting for the additional encoding cost.
11:06:20 <int-e> Use BLC instead, programs tend to be a fair bit smaller there.
11:06:45 <river> BLC is so good
11:06:55 <river> BCL?
11:06:59 <river> binary combinatory logic?
11:07:08 <int-e> Yeah.
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11:07:15 <river> ah that's a way to say SK
11:07:32 <int-e> 1 = apply, 00 = S, 01 = K, or some permutation thereof.
11:07:37 <kspalaiologos> re using blc: yeah, i am aware, i just like combinators a bit more.
11:07:46 <river> i find combinators incredibly awkward
11:08:17 <river> of course thisis all just an O(1) factor
11:08:24 <int-e> I can't use them directly. I write code in lambda calculus and then do abstraction elimination, which blows things up considerably.
11:08:34 <b_jonas> BLC is bacon lattice comato, right?
11:08:42 <b_jonas> or bacon lettuce cheese maybe
11:08:54 <int-e> Is it O(1)? I thought the blowup tends to be quadratic if you don't do some serious extra legwork.
11:09:10 <river> fungot: is comato a sruit or iegetable?
11:09:11 <fungot> river: he is in my mind, the government welcomed the first and only time the article, the north currently faces the worst and the fnord secretaries, the other being my first night of the year, as the start of the debate.
11:09:11 <int-e> (serious extra legwork: pack arguments into tuples)
11:09:21 <kspalaiologos> there's some optimisations you could do while doing abstraction elimination 
11:09:30 <river> int-e: i was thinking of interpreters
11:09:33 <int-e> sure, we're doing that
11:09:42 <river> but honestly im not even sure how you write an AST in SK combinators
11:10:13 <int-e> unlambda notation? i = ``skk
11:10:23 <river> i mean like
11:10:26 <int-e> "write"
11:10:28 <river> if you have a lambda term
11:10:34 <int-e> not a good word for that, too many meanings
11:10:36 <river> you need a way to write that out in SK combinators
11:10:49 <int-e> yes, that's what abstraction elimination does
11:11:19 <river> abstraction elimination translates the term into sk comabintors, not quite what i mean - although it solves the problem
11:11:28 <int-e> it takes a lambda term with a single abstraction, lambda x. <applications of s, k, i, and x>, and turns it into one without.
11:11:36 <river> basically hte issue is that SK combinators don't have a way to write string constants
11:11:54 <kspalaiologos> do lambda calculi have?
11:11:57 <int-e> The key rule is  (lambda x. AB) = S (lambda x. A) (lambda x. B)
11:12:13 <river> its easy enough to make one up since you can encode lists and booleans
11:12:19 <kspalaiologos> you usually use something similar to church encoding yeah.
11:12:30 <kspalaiologos> but this also translates to SKI, just not very obviously
11:13:03 <esolangs> [[Bundle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97530&oldid=97525 * Lanksy * (+26) /* Commands */
11:13:43 <int-e> So you can push lambdas inside until you have a constant term (lambda x. A) = K A when A has no x), a variable (lambda x. x = I = S K K), or an eta-expansion (lambda x. A x = A, when there's no x in A)
11:15:04 <int-e> And then there's a couple of peephole optimizations and that tends to give tolerable results when your programs aren't too complex (in terms of how many arguments are in scope simultaneously).
11:15:43 <int-e> BLC is far more pleasant.
11:16:20 <int-e> While still interesting for golfing...
11:16:50 <kspalaiologos> the adjacent technicalities are quite interesting too.
11:17:07 <kspalaiologos> my BLC interpreter in malbolge uses monadic i/o and has a crude garbage collector
11:17:47 <int-e> anyway tromp brought up some work on using different combinator bases recently... so that's definitely a thing people work on.
11:18:33 <kspalaiologos> so say, if you did 00000111010 it'd work as a cat program
11:18:38 <int-e> (with an eye on self-interpreter size)
11:19:05 <kspalaiologos> malbolge is comically slow though and to plot a hilbert curve it took around 2 hours
11:20:05 <int-e> Yeah I don't see the appeal in actually *using* Malbolge for anything, once there is a compiler from some higher level language.
11:20:29 <int-e> (That's the end of the intellectual challenge for me.)
11:21:30 <kspalaiologos> there is no efficient compilers
11:21:43 <kspalaiologos> i still write my code in an assembly-adjacent language that is particularly tricky to make optimal
11:23:04 <kspalaiologos> the more ambitious attempt would be something made by Nagoya a while ago which resembles a HLA
11:23:54 <kspalaiologos> but from my tests it can generate up to 20MB of Malbolge that barely runs for some simple programs, while my malbolge code can actually be ran on bad (contemporary) hardware and is pretty small.
11:24:15 <kspalaiologos> the BLC interpreter for comparison is 40MB and compresses pretty well using my general-purpose codec down to 1MB
11:35:12 <esolangs> [[PATH]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97531&oldid=75039 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+31) Distinguish confusion
11:39:38 <int-e> kspalaiologos: BLC or BCL?
11:40:48 <kspalaiologos> BLC.
11:40:58 <kspalaiologos> the BLC-adjacent interpreter is only 10MB.
11:41:06 <kspalaiologos> *the BCL-adjacent
11:41:11 <kspalaiologos> gah acronyms
11:41:45 <int-e> Yeah, there's a CBL here, a confusion of binary languages.
11:41:53 <kspalaiologos> hahaha
11:43:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97532&oldid=97516 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+12) /* S */ add
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12:08:20 <esolangs> [[Universal Turing-completness Proof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=97533 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+2340) Created page with "It is a Turing-completness Proof for various langugaes via translation of 3-cell [[BF]]([[ALWCIDFEC]]) in this languages. ==What needs to be in this languages== *At least 3 va..."
12:09:03 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97534&oldid=95547 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+43) 
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12:30:07 <esolangs> [[Bundle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97535&oldid=97530 * Lanksy * (+35) /* Commands */
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12:54:09 <esolangs> [[Bundle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97536&oldid=97535 * Lanksy * (+991) More
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13:11:36 <esolangs> [[Bundle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97537&oldid=97536 * Lanksy * (-33) /* Commands */
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13:27:58 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97538&oldid=75918 * Yujh * (-19) 
13:28:45 <esolangs> [[LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97539&oldid=97477 * CappyIsCrappy * (+5) /* Cat program (until NUL) */
13:31:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97540&oldid=97488 * CappyIsCrappy * (+107) /* [RE] Cat program */ new section
13:32:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97541&oldid=97540 * CappyIsCrappy * (+97) /* [RE] Cat program */
13:39:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97542&oldid=97541 * CappyIsCrappy * (+29) 
13:40:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97543&oldid=97542 * CappyIsCrappy * (+0) Fixed
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14:14:12 <esolangs> [[LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97544&oldid=97539 * CappyIsCrappy * (+0) /* Cat program (until NUL) */
14:26:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97545&oldid=97543 * Bangyen * (+188) 
14:53:31 <esolangs> [[Bundle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97546&oldid=97537 * Lanksy * (+3) /* Commands */
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16:07:18 <b_jonas> ``` \? Dantooine; \? battle of Danville commemorative dentures
16:07:22 <HackEso> Dantooine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ battle of Danville commemorative dentures? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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17:33:45 <esolangs> [[Numberlist]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97547&oldid=91541 * A casual user * (+13) /* Notes */
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19:50:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:LaserFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97548&oldid=97545 * Bangyen * (-3) 
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23:53:02 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97549&oldid=97483 * PixelatedStarfish * (+24) /* Considerations */
23:57:59 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97550&oldid=97549 * PixelatedStarfish * (+133) /* Considerations */
23:58:39 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=97551&oldid=97550 * PixelatedStarfish * (-1)