< 1655078663 72305 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds > 1655080011 88532 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* 10New user account < 1655080114 427854 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655080839 422204 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655081457 604895 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1655081556 560967 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1655082604 380510 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655082910 433304 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655084605 228387 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space JOIN #esolangs SoniEx2 :Genders: Autgender, 💜⬜💚; Soni L. < 1655087028 440123 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1655087064 279428 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi JOIN #esolangs HackEso :HackEso < 1655087571 605398 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] tswett < 1655087590 872570 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :> "Hey everyone o/" < 1655087592 378693 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : "Hey everyone o/" < 1655087630 444460 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :So as per usual, I've been feeding IRC logs into a neural net in order to generate new random chat. < 1655087685 591797 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :The neural net apparently randomly generated a really interesting Haskell expression. The neural net has someone writing: < 1655087686 663178 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :> let p = 1 : zipWith (+) (map (*4) p) (map (sum . zipWith (*) p . reverse) (inits p)) in p !! 20 < 1655087688 852977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : 146681521121244 < 1655087783 87385 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :Welp, I searched the logs for that month and that expression is actually one that shows up nearly verbatim several times. It's not something that the neural net invented at all. < 1655087787 830635 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :My disappointment is immeasurable. < 1655087793 428730 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, /// is called Slashalash now. < 1655087803 383974 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :How are all y'all doing? < 1655087988 769472 :Corbin!~Corbin@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm. Is it maybe a Project Euler answer? It looks familiar. < 1655088029 462506 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :Here are the first 21 elements of that list: 1,4,17,76,354,1704,8421,42508,218318,1137400,5996938,31940792,171605956,928931280,5061593709,27739833228,152809506582,845646470616,4699126915422,26209721959656,146681521121244 < 1655088067 961240 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f PRIVMSG #esolangs :Aha, it's this: https://oeis.org/A005572 < 1655088112 579447 :Corbin!~Corbin@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Nice. < 1655089271 513692 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN #esolangs Taneb :Nathan van Doorn > 1655092952 718535 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98329&oldid=98320 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+21) 10 < 1655093261 233482 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there is water to the east of England? Well, in the story in this role playing game that I do, there is a maze of canyons and then another country and then water. Also they play dice like in our medieval England but the main number is not restricted to the range 5 to 9, but if the main number is seven still has the highest probability of winning. < 1655093402 379683 :Corbin!~Corbin@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: Is there water to the east of England? < 1655093402 764781 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Corbin: an eu interest, or that the government will < 1655094754 465013 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655094914 821499 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655096734 429245 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655097169 496036 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655097498 563991 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :tswett: Wow your AI is actually intelligent and *understands* how to write haskell! < 1655097744 659057 :Corbin!~Corbin@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION imagines a line of dominos
< 1655098328 610883 :tswett!~tswett@2600:1700:6700:4370:f6a5:72d8:2a5f:803f QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1655098864 377723 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655099276 443271 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655100927 513758 :chibi!~chibi@199.19.75.206 JOIN #esolangs * :Dick Kick'em < 1655101614 297791 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1655101629 442096 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi JOIN #esolangs HackEso :HackEso < 1655102312 218944 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I did not actually write the rules for this variant dice game, although it should be written so that it works like the actual dice game if the main is 5-9, works similarly with other mains, and that the main being 7 still has the highest probability of winning.) < 1655102443 569175 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(In the modern game of dice, the main number is always seven, but the older game allowed other numbers too.) < 1655102794 460147 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655102896 473997 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655103976 368053 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655104084 464941 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655104851 443873 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655105074 459329 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655105104 398831 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655105160 491834 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655105237 601540 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1655105597 916193 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98330&oldid=98323 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+177) 10/* Introductions */ < 1655106216 469204 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1655106370 694022 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Potato Imaginator14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=98331 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+89) 10Created page with "'''Potato Imaginator''' is YouTuber who creates videos on Programming , Animations , etc." < 1655110144 399455 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655111464 507189 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo > 1655111799 376882 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=98332 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+3235) 10Created page with "'''OW-1''' is a two-dimensional programming language invented by on 12 June 2022 by [[User:Potato Imaginator]]. It is inspired from [[Befunge]] and [[Assembly_language]]. OW a..." > 1655111920 964563 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98333&oldid=98271 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+11) 10/* O */ < 1655112154 383395 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655112210 453845 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1655112224 454024 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo > 1655112295 799577 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98334&oldid=98332 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+125) 10/* External Resources */ > 1655112472 252707 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98335&oldid=98334 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+19) 10/* Commands */ < 1655112622 876450 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :why gcc, why? https://paste.debian.net/1243926/ > 1655112632 677622 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Potato Imaginator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98336&oldid=98331 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+31) 10 < 1655112655 890220 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I meant "why, gcc, why?" < 1655112965 935515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=95620 helps... there's a flag -mcmodel=large < 1655113049 565539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Though that bug claims to be "fixed for GCC 11" and my gcc is 11.3.0. < 1655113200 340615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But whatever... the important thing is that the flag works < 1655113283 274633 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN < 1655114506 112059 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh... a 2<<32 byte long static array < 1655114534 270221 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not surprised that it errors out, though probably the compiler stage should give an error rather than leave it to the linker < 1655114542 215401 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :since it's a single big array < 1655115449 847872 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1655115518 635895 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1655117386 948697 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98337&oldid=98335 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+5) 10/* Commands */ > 1655117450 827491 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98338&oldid=98337 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (-4) 10/* Description */ > 1655117460 925262 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98339&oldid=98338 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+4) 10/* Description */ > 1655117488 713986 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98340&oldid=98339 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+1) 10/* Description */ > 1655117702 597123 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98341&oldid=98340 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+18) 10/* External Resources */ < 1655120300 326570 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1655122570 62382 :sprout!~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:7cff:d201:729:bfd9 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1655123417 516918 :sprout!~quassel@2a02-a467-ccd6-1-788f-9f54-6bd8-c87d.fixed6.kpn.net JOIN #esolangs sprout :sprout < 1655123668 507726 :definitelya!~hexagon@host-79-53-208-179.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN #esolangs * :WRATH < 1655124694 413933 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655125314 805958 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1655128424 471948 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo > 1655129004 808138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98342&oldid=98341 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (-4) 10 < 1655129074 500632 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1655129491 615124 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98343&oldid=98342 5* 03Gapples2 5* (+336) 10computational class update > 1655129590 984806 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BitFlip14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98344&oldid=89862 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+109) 10 > 1655130311 636035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OW-114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=98345 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+226) 10Created page with "Could Someone verify the Turing Complete Proof by actually running it in the program [https://tic80.com/play?cart=2840 Link] and verifying it. ~~~" > 1655131040 492712 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98346&oldid=98329 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-21) 10 > 1655131063 65085 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98347&oldid=98343 5* 03Gapples2 5* (+58) 10very small change > 1655131186 676761 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OW-114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98348&oldid=98347 5* 03Gapples2 5* (+4) 10even smaller change < 1655131272 81145 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1655131509 644536 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98349&oldid=98345 5* 03Gapples2 5* (+379) 10verified > 1655131825 323848 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98350&oldid=85240 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+620) 10Turing completness Proof > 1655133501 924619 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ChuckEsoteric0814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98351&oldid=97534 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+416) 10Improved page > 1655133664 973880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ChuckEsoteric0814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98352&oldid=98351 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+13) 10 > 1655136787 815777 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071 Line Challenge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98353&oldid=93530 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+4) 10/* External links */ < 1655136931 130967 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1655136974 854487 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98354&oldid=98346 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-190) 10/* The Refer Operator (&) */ < 1655137040 315602 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in > 1655137102 992865 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98355&oldid=98354 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-104) 10/* Multiple Address Output */ < 1655137547 974853 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1655137769 933437 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98356&oldid=98355 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+516) 10/* Sources */ > 1655137832 542007 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98357&oldid=98356 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-1) 10/* =Updates */ > 1655137903 976917 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98358&oldid=98357 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+39) 10/* Updates */ < 1655138112 951410 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm confused about this code < 1655138125 569549 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :outport(SEQU_ADDR, 0x0F02); < 1655138164 38891 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs : memset(vga+1, 0, 0xffff); /* stupid size_t exactly 1 too small */ < 1655138164 39010 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs : vga[0] = 0; < 1655138328 145490 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1655138337 18810 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, been a while. That... enables writes to all four memory planes? < 1655138402 586303 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: the thing to understand is that this write '02' to the sequencer index register, and then 0f to the sequencer data register... that's how x86 handles writing words to the port address space < 1655138425 819448 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm glossing over that and wondering about that size_t complaint < 1655138436 69448 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :16 bit memory model < 1655138437 777474 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is VGA really just one byte larger than convenient? < 1655138451 56267 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it depends on what you're doing with it < 1655138487 958914 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it's just plain graphics then that's overkill. but if you want to scroll around, you'll be wrapping around on the four 64kb planes. < 1655138513 90447 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :This is inside a function called set320x200x256_X < 1655138580 629539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if you don't want to scroll around you probabily would use the weird plain interleaved graphics mode with a single 320x200 = 64000 bytes buffer that's stored in all four planes rather than the "X" mode that doesn't do that. < 1655138740 89375 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :How strong is the connection between prefix-free encodings of natural numbers and fast-growing hierarchies? < 1655138759 17755 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :weak enough that I'm not aware of it < 1655138815 597338 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :for whatever *that* is worth... I've seen slow and fast-growing hierarchies but never done much with them myself < 1655138854 725657 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Here are some classic encodings: < 1655138859 201413 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Encode n in unary (e.g. n 1s followed by a 0). < 1655138883 599860 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Encode log n in unary, then n in binary. < 1655138899 213355 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Encode log log n in unary, then log n in binary, then n in binary. Etc. < 1655138909 539835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :log*: 0 | 1 < 1655138930 76226 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Repeat the above k times for any k. Then you can encode k in unary instead of having it be constant, and so on. < 1655138933 496624 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow!!!! < 1655138944 955920 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's like ordinals < 1655138948 622371 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep. < 1655138967 982295 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :One way to think of these things is as binary search where you don't know the upper bound. < 1655138990 663055 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :The first one is just linear search. The second one is repeated doubling to find an upper bound, then a binary search. < 1655139027 863189 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :The third one is searching for an upper bound of the form 2^2^n, then binary searching exponents to find a bound of the form 2^n, then binary search for the number. < 1655139068 354125 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :And presumably you can have a fast-growing hierarchy of functions to do the first step, searching for an upper bound. < 1655139166 901423 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you overdo it the encoding will suck for small numbers. < 1655139226 883504 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :finite payoff < 1655139240 930681 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :to get wins representing big numbers < 1655139245 360465 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, certainly these are all only interesting asymptotically. < 1655139247 821833 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there a way to measure the finite payoff < 1655139275 671653 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :payoff is probably a bad word < 1655139283 111629 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1655139308 768066 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :The first few I listed use n, O(log(n)), log(n) + O(log^2(n)), log(n) + log^2(n) + O(log^3(n)) bits. < 1655139317 492108 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: re: size_t, the issue is that when you're dealing with 64KiB segments, resonable sizes for things range from 0 to 65536, but that's 65537 possibilities < 1655139343 785652 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Rust solves this problem with two different range operators: 0..65536 loops over 65536 possibilities (inclusive lower endpoint, exclusive higher endpoint) < 1655139356 704310 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, s/65536/65535/g < 1655139367 321504 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and 0..=65535 loops over all 65536 possibilities, including both endpoints < 1655139392 825522 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: there is indeed water to the east of England, at least some parts of it, I confirmed this personally yesterday < 1655139485 602181 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :...oh, memset(foo, 0, 0) is meaningless I guess. Need number of bytes to be 1. So it's like there's an unused size < 1655139510 77368 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :not meaningless but useless < 1655139542 213345 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is surprisingly hard to do an endpoint-inclusive loop over the entire range of an unsigned integral type in C < 1655139578 732805 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you have to do something like "size_t i = 0; do { a[i] = 0; i++ } while (i != 0);" < 1655139595 749320 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's a nice way to do it < 1655139985 458603 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could also use word-based access and sidestep the issue that way < 1655140272 721722 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. I was kind of thinking the way the x86 REP prefix solved that issue was to also "redefine" what 0 means (or equivalently, test the counter only after the first decrement) but the manual's pseudocode suggests that is not the case, so maybe that was just a dream. < 1655140341 794925 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: `rep` and `loop` are different in this regard < 1655140378 190904 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(for a good reason, in the case of `loop`) < 1655140404 743399 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and, I suppose, also in the case of `rep` because 0-sized memory moves will be a common corner case) < 1655140417 837102 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/moves/operations/ < 1655140454 137702 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`loop` is weird; many modern processors run `loop` slowly but parse `dec rcx; jnz label` as a single instruction internally that has the same effect and is more efficient < 1655140456 440855 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :loop`? No such file or directory < 1655140510 301097 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've seen a rumour that the reason is in order to get exception handling correct – if the jump points to non-executable memory, the latter sequence lets you leave the IP pointing at the jnz instruction, so that the instruction does the right thing when resumed after the exception is handled < 1655140531 244959 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the encoding of an instruction with `loop`-like semantics needs to end with the encoding for a `jnz` instruction, in order to be implemented efficiently < 1655140541 451013 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that makes sense < 1655140550 769214 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :whereas, with `loop`, the only way to get exception handling to work is to undo the decrement of rcx, which needs special cases < 1655140581 229529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And I suppose compilers never bothered to take advantage of `loop`. So CPU designers had no incentive to make it fast. < 1655140603 892527 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right < 1655140606 79650 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :It would be funny if the encoding was such that you could jump into the middle of a loop instruction to get the jnz behavior. < 1655140633 331883 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you might lose the benefits of the loop encoding being compact, though. < 1655140646 709272 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe "lock jnz" should be introduced as an alternative encoding for "loop" – that's compact and might be unused at the moment < 1655140677 690046 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although "dec rcx" is only one byte longer than "lock" on x86_64, and the same length on i386 < 1655140679 738986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does x86_64 still have this instruction or has it been repurposed the way that the single byte inc and dec instructions were? < 1655140688 354798 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(err, "dec ecx" on i386, obviously) < 1655140696 499591 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it still has "loop" I think < 1655140702 3732 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and, much earlier... I think `pop cs` was a thing on the original 8086? < 1655140720 449613 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :still has "lock" too, although it's been repurposed as a general-purpose prefix that changes the meaning of an instruction < 1655140738 917756 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, "pop cs" got repurposed very early because it is a very hard instruction to use correctly < 1655140740 805655 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hasn't `lock` always been a prefix? < 1655140758 232210 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but it hasn't always had the behaviour of changing instruction semantisc < 1655140849 62955 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"rep"/"repne" are similar, but they are no-ops on operations which don't have defined semantics changes (as opposed to "lock", which throws #UD, i.e. SIGILL, if it doesn't have a defined way to apply to that instruction) < 1655140905 409323 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :leading to some weirdness around `rep ret` a while ago, I forgot why that was a thing. < 1655140916 78785 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :really, x86 family instruction encoding is all-around a mess and programs would be more compact (saving memory bandwidth and L1C cache) if it were rethought < 1655140947 162189 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh, that one's because some AMD processors don't store the lowest bit of each instruction address in the branch predictor < 1655140958 113024 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because almost all jumping instructions are at least two bytes long < 1655140972 463753 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, thanks... that makes sense (sadly). < 1655140974 84003 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :L1C? < 1655140979 826393 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :level 1 cache < 1655140987 701 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: level 1 cache for code < 1655140987 142800 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :code < 1655140993 892011 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, code. < 1655140996 182 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most modern processors have L1C, L1D, L2, L3 as their caches < 1655141002 939067 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, I just always heard it called L1I. < 1655141035 719276 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I might have forgotten the exact reasoning, but it's definitely something to do with having jumps happen more often than one per two bytes < 1655141163 102640 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: here we go, there's a full blog post about it: https://repzret.org/p/repzret/ (I was essentially correct, but not quite) < 1655141237 658586 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the 16 bit x86 code was actually compact. With the 32 bit mode they started adding prefixes... though I guess the default based on execution mode helped to make them relatively infrequent. with x86_64 that's no longer true. < 1655141278 200049 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, the problem is that it's trying to be backwards-compatible with something that has different optimization considerations < 1655141307 422689 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :16-bit x86 basically reserves one bit in opcodes to distinguish between 8-bit and 16-bit instructions < 1655141322 341009 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right < 1655141333 9000 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :64-bit x86-64 would want to reserve two bits in opcodes to distinguish between 8/16/32/64-bit instructions, but that bit isn't available because of the backwards compatibility concerns < 1655141364 795022 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the second bit besides the one that's already there) < 1655141401 877207 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess we should be grateful that they at least gave us 8 extra registers for the longer encoding < 1655141408 214860 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :+in exchange < 1655141462 341030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(except if you're a kernel developer and worry about context switch times... but the x86 state that needed to be saved was already very big anyway; the FPU extensions are the bigger offenders here) < 1655141517 203905 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :AVX512 has 32 512-bit registers, that's a lot more state to save than another eight 64-bit registers < 1655141769 53682 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"that was unheard of even in the AMD optimization guides" < 1655141785 861728 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Yeah that's what I had in mind with "FPU extensions" < 1655141874 246189 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :recalling that MMX was basically just an alternative way to use the existing FPU registers. And then they made them wider and wider. And deeper (more registers) too. < 1655141945 370819 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1655142094 770407 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder what crazy mind thought it would be a good idea to make the FPU registers a (very small) stack... < 1655142161 557095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( job security for compiler writers? ) < 1655142210 508294 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it lets you efficiently write arbitrary expressions that don't use an operand twice and don't overflow the stack < 1655142229 917506 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the FPU designers may have underestimated the number of expressions that violate one of those restrictions < 1655142251 621067 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lots of golfing languages are stack-based, so I imagine the same motivation was involved here < 1655142319 717730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've handwritten a tiny amount of x87 FPU code and keeping track of the stack was a hassle because it changes with every instruction... so basically I had a comment on each listing the whole stack contents < 1655142340 392522 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655142359 81344 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway... I'm sure it made sense to somebody but it's still one of the worse design decisions in the x86 space to my mind. < 1655142396 500942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, compactness of instructions may have played a role... you could get away with single operand instructions for the most part < 1655142413 770658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but was it worth it? I don't think so :P < 1655142448 720684 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Java bytecode is stack-based, but it uses registers for method arguments < 1655142458 46809 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(which is weird, most stack/register mixes use the stack for arguments and registers for temporaries) < 1655142490 357075 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure whether register- or stack-based syntaxes are generally better in terms of performance metrics < 1655142520 757934 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :java's bytecode is a bit like x86... it should really be redesigned. but there's too much crap that depends on it so it'll never happen. < 1655142533 520465 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in golfing languages, tacit syntaxes seem to be winning at the moment, but I suspect they don't scale well, especially when using low-level instructions < 1655142562 325339 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm trying to remember how WebAssembly works, is that entirely register-based? < 1655142565 992869 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: and just like x86, it's being replaced by something else (cf dalvik, ART)? < 1655142584 64356 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :(well, maybe) < 1655142611 671486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :FireFly: but what will happen to all the classloaders that "enhance" the bytecode? < 1655142628 986828 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :is that common in java applications? < 1655142638 928167 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's fairly common < 1655142640 313517 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I'm blissfully unaware.. < 1655142642 988310 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :fair < 1655142653 337944 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I had a previous job working with low-level details of Java, so I've been more exposed to this than most) < 1655142850 471434 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it has some horrors... like large constant arrays being turned into an initializer that... loads an array, dups, loads an index, loads a value, stores, etc... < 1655142885 853145 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :...and IIRC chained to another method if that exceeds the maximum size of a method which is 64kb. < 1655142919 629435 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've not touched Java in over a decade and I'm happier for it. > 1655142930 807172 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98359&oldid=98350 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+3) 10 < 1655142964 422416 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655142966 179902 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655142984 184981 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :most of the things I liked about Java retroactively turned out to be false statements < 1655142986 366563 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(probably not quite true... I suspect I've written a dozen lines somewhere, or maybe debugged some Java code that came from someone on IRC) < 1655143014 160498 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in particular, I overestimated how stable it would be – Java programs have a tendency to break over time, and I was hoping they wouldn't < 1655143060 540138 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suspect it's fine (though quite complicated when it gets to Java EE stuff) if you're not the type who looks behind the curtain. < 1655143111 337818 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, sure. That's more of an software engineering lie, isn't it? APIs evolve, causing stuff to break, even in Java. < 1655143139 323854 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And old versions *will* be discontinued eventually. < 1655143169 506457 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are plenty of languages which have managed not to remove any of their old APIs < 1655143193 351667 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even in C, which has been around for over 40 years since standardisation, I think nothing's been removed other than gets() > 1655143224 939555 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98360&oldid=98359 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+108) 10 < 1655143463 255431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and yet, most old C code won't work... for different reasons < 1655143494 176239 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1655143498 593187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's way too easy to rely on undefined behavior in C, and for a long time, compilers just did the obvious thing) < 1655143504 362820 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655143522 158196 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I guess that's a digression from the topic < 1655143599 493616 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655143602 488070 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Perl has incredibly good backwards compatibility in terms of the language itself, although some code has stopped working due to library dependencies outside the language implementation < 1655143707 425131 :Corbin!~Corbin@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf, river: I'm thinking about computing that expected value. I'm thinking specifically about ex(n) = log(n) + loglog(n) + logloglog(n) + ... < 1655143763 804313 :ais523!~ais523@213.205.240.127 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1655144194 511394 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655144757 501222 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655146864 455189 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds > 1655147059 929628 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OHE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98361&oldid=84052 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+281) 10Added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp and introduced the category tag Implemented. < 1655147931 321390 :Noisytoot_!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1655147985 78063 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1655148774 501736 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655148950 928971 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Perl has incredibly good backwards compatibility in terms of the language itself," => that's a bit of an exaggeration. it has decent backwards compatbility, but not incredibly good. < 1655149300 840637 :Noisytoot_!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot NICK :Noisytoot < 1655149542 607818 :Thedarkb-Desktop!~Thedarkb@92.40.169.8.threembb.co.uk JOIN #esolangs Thedarkb :Ben < 1655149571 954781 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :` although "dec rcx" is only one byte longer than "lock" on x86_64' => no, the former is three bytes and the latter is one byte < 1655149573 375430 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​? No such file or directory < 1655149881 720063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :` still has "lock" too, although it's been repurposed as a general-purpose prefix that changes the meaning of an instruction' => not so, that's just about the only prefix that hasn't been repurposed that way. the operand size prefix, the rep and repnz prefix have been repurposed, plus there are new prefixes allocated among the two-byte opcodes starting with 0F byte, but the lock prefix still < 1655149883 713362 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​? No such file or directory < 1655149887 825957 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does only atomic memory locking, though the specific semantics has been refined < 1655149937 180017 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1655149951 566755 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" leading to some weirdness around `rep ret` a while ago, I forgot why that was a thing." => that's an alternative to ret to make the jump destination predictor cache happier < 1655149972 425887 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655149975 727870 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah yes, ais already answered that < 1655150170 902476 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"the FPU designers may have underestimated the number of expressions that violate one of those restrictions" => not really, that's why there are instructions to push a copy of any element on that stack or pop into any element on that stack in 8087 < 1655150199 669460 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so if you wish, you can use the stack as one accumulator and seven registers < 1655150225 594075 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or you can use it as a normal stack but use a few elements at the bottom to store constants that you don't pop throughout a loop < 1655150248 368058 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: you might like the Levenshtein number encoding < 1655150330 511362 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :which I rediscovered myself, see section 4.5 of https://tromp.github.io/cl/LC.pdf < 1655151058 918466 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, the stack-based design in 8087 probably made slightly sense when it was in a separate coprocessor chip than later when it became a normal part of the CPU in more expensive 486s < 1655151069 472809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/slightly sense/slightly more sense/ < 1655151169 349160 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I never remember which is which with all the names like Levenshtein and Elias omega/delta/whatever. < 1655151331 761249 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Can a variant RCA connection be made that can be used with balanced audio in one cable but also is usable as non-balanced audio with existing equipment if one or more of the source/cable/receiver are non-balanced? < 1655151669 451353 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(This is one feature I intend for Digi-RGB specification) < 1655151782 170729 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1655152153 627655 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1655153083 140876 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Uyjhmn n14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98362&oldid=98360 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+1) 10/* Computational class */ Fix typo < 1655153815 47087 :Corbin!~Corbin@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :tromp: Nice diagrams, thanks. < 1655155084 506969 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655155288 394217 :tromp!~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1655155729 443668 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell Documentation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98363&oldid=98358 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-272) 10/* Commands */ < 1655155896 490574 :definitelya!~hexagon@host-79-53-208-179.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Quit: h < 1655157098 434317 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting < 1655157248 397295 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suppose no one would happen to know off the top of their head if NOS2 has a built in hex viewer (or more likely an octal viewer)? < 1655157437 683903 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( This is the wrong OS, but: What an od thing to ask. ) < 1655157930 862011 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655158018 850535 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's helpful instead of trying to use a Hex viewer in Windows and using calc to convert to octal when I eventually find the NOS2 octal viewer < 1655158072 263202 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm assuming NOS2 would have an octal viewer maybe but not a hex viewer. It uses 60-bit words, no bytes to be seen) < 1655158398 208627 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Context: The publicly downloadable PLATO distribution has Windows/Mac/linux stuff deep within it. Someone had extracted those and I have access to that, but only because I joined a mailing list. I want to learn how to do that using only publicly available resources. I can use PF to go PLATO -> NOS2 and NOS2 has an XMODEM program, but the end result keeps being corrupt. I want to see what the file looks like resting in NOS2 < 1655158529 884100 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. od doesn't match up with the known good file in HxD or with what I see at the PLATO level (which does match with HxD of the known file) < 1655158594 362043 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655158659 500807 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655158958 887702 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1655159110 34683 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655159254 428417 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655159404 434319 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655159584 464006 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655160415 688145 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo < 1655160484 431148 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655161357 16600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: what is NOS2? < 1655161396 971763 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :An operating system for the CDC 6600 and related machines, early supercomputers by Control Data Corporation < 1655161430 496297 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :PLATO, an educational system that had early multiuser experiences like forums and multiplayer games and chat rooms, ran on it < 1655161446 235808 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.cyber1.org/ https://codex.sjzoppi.com/doku.php?id=utilities:start < 1655161467 107856 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :(CYBIS = PLATO) < 1655161501 703876 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: ah, so some very old systems < 1655161539 31874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: can you perhaps extract the files or memory dump in a format that you can load in a newer system to hexdump there? < 1655161584 964376 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :If I knew how to do that I wouldn't bother trying to figure out the xmodem stuff. Although people on the mailing list have been pointing me to tools to do exactly that >.> < 1655161657 673969 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: how much are you working with physical machines versus emulation with modern tools? < 1655161675 661580 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Emulation only. < 1655162051 925674 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-13.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, that should be slightly easier then < 1655163514 464138 :littlebo1eep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655163519 297362 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655163610 859673 :benji!~benji@user/benji QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655163632 426799 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo > 1655163760 760727 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OW-114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98364&oldid=98349 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+60) 10 > 1655163773 527823 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OW-114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=98365&oldid=98364 5* 03Potato Imaginator 5* (+84) 10 < 1655164316 112998 :benji!~benji@user/benji JOIN #esolangs benji :benji < 1655164324 415766 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1655164379 51591 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod JOIN #esolangs relrod :rickymain < 1655164615 475323 :littlebobeep!~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo JOIN #esolangs alMalsamo :alMalsamo