00:00:05 <oriansj> https://github.com/oriansj/stage0-posix https://github.com/fosslinux/live-bootstrap https://github.com/ironmeld/boot2now
00:01:13 <oriansj> So we have a bit of experience in bootstrapping languages which we could share, we just wanted to do it in a way that would be most beneficial
00:02:48 <b_jonas> I had noticed that we haven't seen arseniiv for months and I'm getting worried, but I only noticed just now that he was last on the channel on exactly 2022-02-23, which is a worrying date.
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00:20:52 <imode> why is it worrying?
00:23:17 <imode> https://github.com/arseniiv
00:24:41 <imode> was he russian or ukrainian?
00:26:39 <b_jonas> imode: yes, per https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Punctree&diff=63903&oldid=63902 , and he very likely lives in Russia
00:26:55 <imode> he's probably been drafted..?
00:27:04 <imode> there are GH contributions, though.
00:27:09 <imode> as of the 11th of June.
00:27:09 <b_jonas> imode: we used to have one ukranian person but they're banned now
00:42:33 <zzo38> oriansj: For such a small code that is OK you do not need to do what I mentioned, but for e.g. a C compiler implemented in C or a Rust compiler implemented in Rust, it is more complicated than that.
00:45:39 <zzo38> Fortunately, it says, there is also Rust compiler in C++ and C# compiler in C, so that will be helpful if they are needed.
00:46:02 <oriansj> zzo38: I wrote the C compiler in assembly in 24 hours: https://github.com/oriansj/stage0-posix-x86/blob/master/cc_x86.M1
00:47:15 <oriansj> and used it to build a more advanced C compiler written in its C subset
00:47:41 <oriansj> https://github.com/oriansj/M2-Planet (it is a cross-platform C compiler)
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00:48:25 <oriansj> Which is good enough to build GNU Mes and run MesCC (which is a C compiler written in scheme) that we used to build TCC
00:49:25 <oriansj> we also did the same thing for other architectures as well such as RISC-V https://github.com/oriansj/stage0-posix-riscv64/blob/master/cc_riscv64.M1
00:50:13 <oriansj> and wrote the assembler in a more advanced hex2 https://github.com/oriansj/stage0-posix-riscv64/blob/master/M0_riscv64.hex2 which we bootstrapped in hex1 and bootstrapped hex1 in hex0
00:53:54 <oriansj> hence why I am asking about basic guidelines so that our contributions on language bootstrapping would be most beneficial to this community.
00:54:24 <zzo38> Yes. I do not know the basic guidelines, though.
00:58:10 <oriansj> the languages we did create are quite simple https://bootstrapping.miraheze.org/wiki/Stage0 and designed for human usage
01:07:40 <oriansj> oh and I forgot to mention we also implemented the languages themselves also in C and assembly; so the languages are bootstrapped in atleast 3 different languages
01:09:42 <b_jonas> oriansj: great, do write about these on the esolangs wiki
01:11:50 <oriansj> b_jonas: no problem, on the topic of language bootstrapping how in depth would be most helpful? as we can be *VERY* detailed on problems in language bootstrapping
01:15:38 <b_jonas> oriansj: I don't know, it depends on how much effort you want to spend on writing articles. if there's already good documentation elsewhere then it can be fine to just give a short summary and links to other websites with better information.
01:16:35 <b_jonas> of course there's a risk of the other websites going offline leaving us with but rotten links, like how the best Intercal websites died even though it's a historically very interesting language
01:16:55 <oriansj> hence why duplication of information is useful
01:16:58 <b_jonas> or how the websites for a lot of the older ICFP contests are no longer accessible
01:17:17 <b_jonas> oriansj: sure, though you will have to observe the licencing terms of the wiki
01:17:57 <oriansj> b_jonas: we have the original authors available for providing the information under the needed licensing terms
01:19:36 <zzo38> Yes, this Stage0 bootstrapping formats looks like good to me, I think
01:21:34 <b_jonas> I guess I've seen all the extremes here: on one end, we have DMM's or David Madore's languages where we can just link to the author's websites and I can be confident that the information will still be there a decade from now (though in one case you need an ftp client); on the other end is https://esolangs.org/wiki/PL/MIX where I'm confident that nobody ever will get the information about the language
01:21:41 <oriansj> it was designed to be cross-platform byte for byte reproducible and aid in human auditing
01:21:55 <b_jonas> extremes in all direction come with esotericness of course
01:24:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Oriansj * New user account
01:25:24 <b_jonas> `` welcome oriansj # I see you haven't been formally welcomed yet
01:25:27 <HackEso> oriansj: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:25:45 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99461&oldid=99391 * Oriansj * (+80) intro
01:29:06 <esolangs> [[Geometryjunp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99462&oldid=92853 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+587) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the geometryjunp programming language on GitHub.
01:29:53 <esolangs> [[Geometryjunp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99463&oldid=99462 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+233) Added several category tags.
01:30:33 <esolangs> [[Hex0]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99464 * Oriansj * (+1189) introduction to hex0
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01:31:26 <esolangs> [[Geometryjunp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99465&oldid=99463 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+562) Introduced two further examples in the form of a truth-machine and a Hello, world! program.
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01:39:04 <esolangs> [[Hex1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99466 * Oriansj * (+1208) introduction to hex1
01:42:10 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell Documentation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99467&oldid=99400 * PixelatedStarfish * (+23) Redirected page to [[BunnyBell]]
01:43:14 <esolangs> [[ZT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99468&oldid=47134 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Category
01:45:48 <esolangs> [[Hex2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99469 * Oriansj * (+1547) introduction to hex2
01:48:59 <esolangs> [[Hex1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99470&oldid=99466 * Oriansj * (-1) hide the url
01:56:15 <esolangs> [[M0]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99471 * Oriansj * (+1311) introduction to M0
02:10:12 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99472&oldid=99418 * PixelatedStarfish * (+219) /* Sources */
02:15:57 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99473&oldid=99472 * PixelatedStarfish * (+41) /* Notes */
02:17:04 <esolangs> [[CC *]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99474 * Oriansj * (+2638) introduction to the cc_* family
02:20:34 <oriansj> there you go, a simple and basic introduction to the hex0, hex1, hex2, M0 and cc_* language families
02:28:31 <oriansj> so, I'll do a minor extension on the subject of language bootstrapping and hopefully it will be of some use.
02:41:17 <esolangs> [[M0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99475&oldid=99471 * Oriansj * (+27) added category
02:41:51 <esolangs> [[CC *]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99476&oldid=99474 * Oriansj * (+27) added category
02:42:28 <esolangs> [[Hex2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99477&oldid=99469 * Oriansj * (+31) added category
02:43:09 <esolangs> [[Hex1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99478&oldid=99470 * Oriansj * (+27) added category
02:43:45 <esolangs> [[Hex2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99479&oldid=99477 * Oriansj * (-4) added category
02:44:13 <esolangs> [[Hex0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99480&oldid=99464 * Oriansj * (+28) added category
02:44:36 <b_jonas> what programming language uses “fun” as a keyword to define a function and is either weakly typed or has type inference strong enough that you can define a function without giving the type of a function argument? I'm trying to identify the language of a snippet
02:45:27 <esolangs> [[Category:Bootstrapping]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99481 * Oriansj * (+118) added category
02:47:09 <oriansj> well the cc_* familty supports FUNCTION which has that behavior
02:49:04 <b_jonas> yeah, SML is a decent guess, but I don't think that snippet can be it. what struck me strange is that it had what seems like both initializing a variable and modifying it in place in a loop with a straight "=" operator, without a declaration present, as you'd do in BASIC/python. also lacked both parenthesis and braces and semicolons in if conditionals,
02:50:00 <b_jonas> also had apparently no explicit type names, but some type presumably guessed from numeric literals like "2", and a mention of "toString"
02:50:50 <b_jonas> ah, I found a screenshot of the snippet: https://twitter.com/robertoaloi/status/1206581193283641344
02:51:58 <shachaf> That snippet doesn't have "fun" in it.
02:52:02 <b_jonas> hmm, that's not quite the ad that I've seen, but clearly from the same company and very similar
02:52:14 <b_jonas> the one I saw had a recursive function for the Lucas sequence
02:52:31 <Corbin> That looks like mildly incorrect ECMAScript, from the automatic-semicolon-insertion style.
02:54:26 <oriansj> well \n as semicolon is a trivial tokenizer trick
02:54:26 <shachaf> It's probably no language, anyway.
02:54:54 <b_jonas> I think it leads to https://www.multisoft.se/134711/
02:55:13 <b_jonas> Corbin: wouldn't ECMAScript have parens around if cond'ns
02:55:33 <b_jonas> I did think of ECMAScript but it's the parens that made that real suspicious. and afaik "fun" isn't a thing.
02:55:54 <b_jonas> maybe different ads are in different languages?
02:57:11 <b_jonas> looks like there's a third variant of the ad too, https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/q3cgrj/found_this_ad_on_a_train_what_language_is_this/
02:57:40 <b_jonas> trying to find a screenshot of the one that I've seen
02:58:47 <Corbin> Starting to suspect that these are subtly altered to not just run when copy-pasted. Wondering which language has length() as a builtin function like that.
03:00:40 <b_jonas> Corbin: perl does, but it doesn't otherwise match
03:01:38 <Corbin> It'd be cool if we had a taxonomic classifier for languages, and not just a chrestomathy.
03:01:49 <Corbin> Oh wow, you're right, this *could* be awk.
03:02:14 <b_jonas> yeah, it looks suspiciously like awk actually
03:02:36 <b_jonas> except not, because awk wants double quotes for the strings
03:03:14 <Corbin> A chrestomathy is a selection of texts in a given language. We're pretty decent at the problem, "for a given language, what is a valid snippet in that language?" What's missing is, "for a given snippet, which languages might it belong to?"
03:04:18 <b_jonas> https://adland.tv/adnews/code-cracking-recruitment-subway-ad-campaign-gets-over-800-applicants-job has another variant, one with "int x = 15 * 7 * 5 * 13;" in it
03:04:31 <b_jonas> still can't find the variant that I've seen
03:04:42 <b_jonas> I should've photographed it
03:05:20 <b_jonas> but I was under some distress because the train I had to take wasn't working and got replaced by a bus, causing 100 minutes of delay in my trip to the airport
03:05:37 <Corbin> Hm. Is that other variant perhaps Ceylon or Kotlin?
03:05:38 <b_jonas> this was on the train for the second leg by the way
03:05:47 <Corbin> Yikes. Hope you made it.
03:08:25 <b_jonas> I was concentrating on jotting down some notes because this was actually a very rare case when the insurance company would have been required to reimburse me: they have to if I miss the airplane if the train is late by more than an hour, but of course only if I can prove that that was the case
03:08:45 <b_jonas> hmm no, looks like they would not have payed
03:09:03 <b_jonas> that one only applies for the higher tier insurance, which in this case I didn't buy
03:09:51 <b_jonas> I used to buy the higher tier for ski vacations, but it's pointless for ordinary vacations like this
03:09:59 <b_jonas> well, the next time I miss the airplaane I will know
03:11:05 <b_jonas> wait, I'm reading the contract wrong
03:11:22 <b_jonas> whatever, it doesn't matter now, the point is, I was jotting down details just in case they matter for insurance
03:12:06 <b_jonas> apparently there's a fifth variant that starts with "a=34\nb=21"
03:12:20 <b_jonas> they made a lot of variants of this
03:22:26 <b_jonas> the one I saw also had return statements in the bodies of if statements, for the two starting cases of the Lucas numbers, and a C-style (two semicolons in the control) for loop in the pat that concatenates the result from multiple calls to the function
03:24:48 <zzo38> Is there esolangs with the TRON character encoding or file format?
03:40:54 <esolangs> [[Bootstrap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99482&oldid=69362 * Oriansj * (+6030) Expanding to make the topic more complete
03:48:05 <b_jonas> Corbin: I think the "length" function would also work in matlab/octave, but the whole code wouldn't. you're probably right that they are deliberately written to not work in any language, which gives me horrible flashbacks to my failed psz interpreter
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04:55:42 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99483&oldid=99379 * Ukeharu * (+399) /* List of Commands */ Changes to usage of [i and {x,y
04:56:54 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99484&oldid=99483 * Ukeharu * (+3) /* List of Commands */ fixed typo
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05:35:29 <b_jonas> re discussion around https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-06.html#lIh , the fun part is that, IIUC, gcc's __int128 isn't a signed integer type, because C11 7.20.1.5 says that intmax_t is at least as large as any signed integer type, but gcc is wisely ignoring that and keeps intmax_t as 64 bits wide because changing its meaning would cause an annoying ABI incompatibility. and due to 6.2.5,
05:35:35 <b_jonas> __int128 is also not an extended integer type either.
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06:51:56 <esolangs> [[Lag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99485&oldid=99440 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+238)
06:53:31 <int-e> yeah I did make the logo
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07:01:10 <int-e> (wrong channel, hmm)
07:16:42 <esolangs> [[Geometryjunp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99486&oldid=99465 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-15)
07:20:25 <esolangs> [[ISEW2C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99487&oldid=97117 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+5)
07:20:37 <esolangs> [[ISEW2C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99488&oldid=99487 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1)
07:27:14 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99489&oldid=99441 * Peter * (+511) /* Input and output */
07:31:40 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99490&oldid=99484 * Ukeharu * (-372) update again to commands
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07:59:41 <esolangs> [[Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99491&oldid=96061 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+52)
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10:17:16 <b_jonas> `` : 'int-e: re word list censored, I recommend'; ls -aF /hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/readme.hackeso
10:17:17 <HackEso> /hackenv/share/dict/12dicts/readme.hackeso
10:27:31 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99492&oldid=99490 * Ukeharu * (+100) Fixed typo and falsities and added more information on commands
10:27:57 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99493&oldid=99492 * Ukeharu * (+2) /* List of Commands */ fixed typo
10:28:23 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99494&oldid=99493 * Ukeharu * (-1) /* List of Commands */ fixed typo
10:47:15 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99495&oldid=99494 * Ukeharu * (+107) initial state clarification
10:58:19 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99496&oldid=99495 * Ukeharu * (+162) /* Language Description */ more clarifications
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12:06:36 <esolangs> [[Bitcoin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99497&oldid=84323 * Yes * (+364)
12:09:06 <esolangs> [[Bitcoin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99498&oldid=99497 * Yes * (-2)
12:12:36 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99499&oldid=99460 * Yes * (+12)
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13:27:54 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99500&oldid=99415 * LEOMOK * (+190)
13:28:06 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99501&oldid=99500 * LEOMOK * (-1)
13:28:14 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99502&oldid=99501 * LEOMOK * (-2)
13:30:32 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99503&oldid=99502 * LEOMOK * (-8)
13:30:57 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99504&oldid=99489 * Peter * (+86) /* Pushing */
13:31:25 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99505&oldid=99503 * LEOMOK * (-2)
13:31:38 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99506&oldid=99505 * LEOMOK * (+1)
13:31:51 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99507&oldid=99506 * LEOMOK * (+2)
13:32:20 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99508&oldid=99504 * Peter * (+17)
13:32:32 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99509&oldid=99508 * Peter * (-17)
13:32:53 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99510&oldid=99507 * LEOMOK * (+26)
13:33:31 <esolangs> [[The Temporary Stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99511&oldid=85183 * Peter * (-1) fixed a/an typo
13:33:40 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99512&oldid=99510 * LEOMOK * (+66)
13:34:08 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99513&oldid=99512 * LEOMOK * (-9)
13:35:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99514&oldid=97368 * Peter * (+112)
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13:35:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99516&oldid=99515 * Peter * (-113) Blanked the page
13:36:38 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99517&oldid=99513 * LEOMOK * (+135)
13:36:52 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99518&oldid=99509 * Peter * (+26)
13:37:19 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99519&oldid=99518 * Peter * (-15)
13:37:27 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99520&oldid=99517 * LEOMOK * (+11)
13:40:15 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99521&oldid=99519 * Peter * (+96) /* Special */
13:40:37 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-06.html#l2Ab "an esoteric language/ISA/OISC implemented in C in only 52 bytes ... waiting for the IOCCC to open" => sounds interesting
13:41:11 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99522&oldid=99520 * LEOMOK * (+85)
13:41:35 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99523&oldid=99522 * LEOMOK * (-41)
13:42:35 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-06.html#lgBb "sounds like Intel really likes the concept of smaller registers combining into larger registers" => most of the pairs in x86 come from z80, so you can't blame intel for it, except for AH on intel which doesn't exist in z80
13:43:09 <fizzie> Most of the pairs in the Z80 come from the Intel 8080, so you *can* blame Intel for it.
13:43:32 <fizzie> (It's got the very same BC, DE and HL pairs, and I believe predates the Z80.)
13:43:34 <b_jonas> ok, I don't know that part of the history
13:47:29 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-06.html#liCb 'The Firefox "About" dialog cannot be closed with Ctrl-W. Why did I even try that?' => because the recently downloaded files list and the bookmark manager can be closed by control-W
13:50:23 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99524&oldid=99521 * Peter * (+280)
13:50:44 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99525&oldid=99524 * Peter * (+21)
13:51:21 <esolangs> [[&!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99526&oldid=99525 * Peter * (+17)
14:02:39 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-06.html#lSGb "<Sgeo> 6502 : does-this-exist-? :: 8086 : 386 with its convenient multiple running virtual 8086s" => I think some fpgas have multiple 6502s built in, but I'm not sure
14:06:12 <b_jonas> "<int-e> . o O ( dear compiler... if a missing return statement allows you to produce crashing code... maybe it should be more than just a warning? )" => we can't change old C retroactively because there's old code that relies on that being valid. it comes from pre-ansi when void didn't exist so you declared void functions as returning int instead. but I believe this is already an error in C++.
14:11:40 <b_jonas> "<Corbin> I used jq to do category theory" => er what?
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14:15:29 <int-e> b_jonas: well it happens to be C++: http://paste.debian.net/1246131/
14:18:54 <Corbin> b_jonas: https://github.com/MostAwesomeDude/klesi/blob/master/cat.jq
14:18:55 <b_jonas> "Which graphical OSes don't have a native concept of a command line?" => Windows 3 on a pre-386 machine, or ran without 386 mode (there's a command-line switch of the win executable)
14:19:56 <b_jonas> int-e: hmm, I was wrong then.
14:21:47 <b_jonas> Corbin: so is this jq language similar to xsh2 or jquery, only operating on json as its main data type rather than xml?
14:22:01 <int-e> I suspect the reason why this is a warning is that the end of the function may actually be unreachable in a way the compiler doesn't understand
14:22:19 <int-e> and C/C++ generally don't force the programmer to write unreachable code
14:22:40 <b_jonas> int-e: that, or just compatibility with ancient C code
14:23:07 <int-e> But that's rather unsatisfying in this case.
14:23:40 <b_jonas> does this change if you try to use compiler flags like --std=gnu+17 or whatever?
14:23:52 <b_jonas> er no, I mean -std=gnu++17
14:23:59 <b_jonas> it's the plus that's doubled, not the minus
14:25:16 <b_jonas> "<Corbin> Has anybody done a complexity analysis of sgt's puzzle collection?" => good idea, there are probably multiple interesting questions that you can ask there
14:25:40 <Corbin> b_jonas: Yeah. The main usage of jq is for quick dissection of JSON responses from APIs, although I've also used it in batch processes for ETL.
14:25:42 <b_jonas> like about how hard it is to solve a puzzle, to find all solutions to a puzzle, to construct a well-formed puzzle, to construct a puzzle with a unique solution etc
14:26:16 <b_jonas> only problem is, https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ webpage doesn't load for me right now
14:26:54 <b_jonas> isup.me says it's up, but that isn't definitive, just a heuristic
14:27:07 <int-e> Pretty sure most of them are NP-complete, but who wants to prove this dozens of times?
14:28:13 <int-e> The implementations though... I think Simon implements polynomial time solvers, and discards candidates that the solver cannot solve.
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14:30:03 <int-e> For many of the puzzles, instances can still be interesting though because a lot of the puzzles feature global properties like connectivity or parity and the solvers know about such features.
14:31:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Astridec]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99527&oldid=99419 * PixelatedStarfish * (+187) /* Nested loops */
14:33:39 <esolangs> [[Translator Handles Everything]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99528 * PixelatedStarfish * (+17) Redirected page to [[The]]
14:39:53 <esolangs> [[SetGoto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99529&oldid=98317 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+142)
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14:46:25 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99530&oldid=99496 * Ukeharu * (+436) more clarifications + sample programs
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15:09:43 <esolangs> [[Hex0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99531&oldid=99480 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) Stub, category
15:10:31 <esolangs> [[Hex1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99532&oldid=99478 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) Stub, category
15:11:19 <esolangs> [[Hex2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99533&oldid=99479 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-26) Stub, wikilinks, category
15:12:23 <esolangs> [[Hex1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99534&oldid=99532 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+8) See also, wikilink
15:12:38 <esolangs> [[Hex1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99535&oldid=99534 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) Link
15:12:52 <esolangs> [[Hex0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99536&oldid=99531 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+36) See also
15:13:06 <esolangs> [[Hex2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99537&oldid=99533 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+37) See also
15:14:02 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99538&oldid=99456 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+33) /* H */ add
15:17:42 <esolangs> [[CC *]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99539&oldid=99476 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) Wikilink, category
15:18:25 <esolangs> [[M0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99540&oldid=99475 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-6) Wikilink, category
15:18:51 <esolangs> [[Category:Bootstrapping]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99541&oldid=99481 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category
15:19:37 <esolangs> [[Bootstrap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99542&oldid=99482 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-23) /* What is bootstrapping a language */ Wikilink
15:22:35 <esolangs> [[Bootstrap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99543&oldid=99542 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+44) /* Bootstrapping by example */ Wikilinks, see also
15:23:01 <esolangs> [[Bootstrap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99544&oldid=99543 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* See also */ fix
15:24:35 <esolangs> [[CC *]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99545&oldid=99539 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+22) Fix title
15:25:01 <esolangs> [[Category:Bootstrapping]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99546&oldid=99541 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) Link to bootstrapping
15:25:17 <esolangs> [[Category:Bootstrapping]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99547&oldid=99546 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-14) .
15:25:32 <esolangs> [[Bootstrap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99548&oldid=99544 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* See also */ .
15:26:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99549&oldid=99538 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+20) add
15:28:43 <esolangs> [[Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with looping]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99550 * Yes * (+454) Created page with "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with looping is a dialect of Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee by [[User:Yes]] == Additions == Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with looping adds..."
15:29:04 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99551&oldid=99499 * Yes * (+54)
15:29:19 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99552&oldid=99551 * Yes * (-5)
15:29:31 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99553&oldid=99552 * Yes * (+9)
15:30:50 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99554&oldid=99530 * Ukeharu * (-1) /* Cat */ typo
15:34:10 <esolangs> [[Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with looping]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99555&oldid=99550 * Yes * (+106)
15:35:59 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99556&oldid=99554 * Ukeharu * (+0)
15:38:23 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99557&oldid=99556 * Ukeharu * (+17) /* Hello World */
15:40:09 <esolangs> [[Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with looping]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99558&oldid=99555 * Yes * (+44)
15:41:19 <esolangs> [[Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee with looping]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99559&oldid=99558 * Yes * (+8)
15:46:42 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99560&oldid=99557 * Ukeharu * (+493) /* Sample Programs */
15:55:46 <esolangs> [[Splaytime]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99561&oldid=99560 * Ukeharu * (+1) typo
16:07:16 <esolangs> [[Pythoff]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=99562 * Yes * (+1095) Created page with "Pythoff is a [[Python|Python 3]] dialect by [[User:Yes]] <br> == Additions/Diffrences == Pythoff does not allow for libraries, making it very limited in software development,..."
16:07:42 <esolangs> [[Pythoff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99563&oldid=99562 * Yes * (+9)
16:07:59 <esolangs> [[Pythoff]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99564&oldid=99563 * Yes * (-5)
16:09:02 <esolangs> [[Pythoff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99565&oldid=99564 * Yes * (+77)
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16:13:33 <esolangs> [[Pythoff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99566&oldid=99565 * Yes * (+353)
16:13:49 <esolangs> [[Pythoff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99567&oldid=99566 * Yes * (-2)
16:14:52 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99568&oldid=99553 * Yes * (+17)
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16:51:29 <esolangs> [[Zalgo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99569&oldid=99455 * Short c1rcuit * (+345) Added String to Number example
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17:45:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Peter * moved [[&!]] to [[Abstract]]
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17:50:32 <esolangs> [[Abstract]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99572&oldid=99570 * Peter * (+43)
17:51:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99573&oldid=99549 * Peter * (+15) /* A */
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19:20:11 <esolangs> [[The]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99574&oldid=99457 * PixelatedStarfish * (+130) /* Commands */
19:47:10 <esolangs> [[Zalgo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99575&oldid=99569 * Short c1rcuit * (+549) Added Number to String example
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20:10:26 <esolangs> [[Newbiefuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99576&oldid=74239 * VilgotanL * (+41)
20:15:56 <esolangs> [[Newbiefuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99577&oldid=99576 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) Add categories
20:24:56 <zzo38> I did not consider Windows 3 to be a "operating system", although possibly it can be considered as a operating system
20:26:56 <zzo38> I had used SQLite for JSON dealing, since SQLite has a built-in JSON dealing functions. However, what I did to load the Scryfall data into SQLite database is to write a program in C to split it into records, and then they are further parsed by SQL codes. (I do it this way, in case the entire data is too big for SQLite all at once)
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21:06:46 <esolangs> [[UBLANG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99578&oldid=98182 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+34) Unpipe, add categories
21:08:10 <esolangs> [[Inputfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99579&oldid=98233 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) Add categories
21:08:55 <esolangs> [[3 bytes :v)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99580&oldid=99021 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+67) Add categories
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21:27:48 <esolangs> [[Zalgo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99581&oldid=99575 * Short c1rcuit * (+2) Fixed heading
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22:56:22 <esolangs> [[The]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99582&oldid=99574 * PixelatedStarfish * (+61) /* Commands */
22:56:38 <esolangs> [[The]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99583&oldid=99582 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Commands */
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22:57:16 <esolangs> [[The]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=99584&oldid=99583 * PixelatedStarfish * (+15) /* Commands */
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