00:06:19 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101112&oldid=101098 * PixelatedStarfish * (+386) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 00:06:53 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101113&oldid=101112 * PixelatedStarfish * (-53) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 00:18:04 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101114&oldid=101113 * PixelatedStarfish * (+392) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 00:20:57 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101115&oldid=101114 * PixelatedStarfish * (+71) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 00:22:23 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101116&oldid=101115 * PixelatedStarfish * (-2) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 00:23:34 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101117&oldid=101116 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 00:52:36 [[DDDD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101118&oldid=85634 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+131) Link to Underload, categorise 00:52:47 [[DDDD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101119&oldid=101118 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) /* Computational class */ fix 00:54:05 [[PokeType]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101120&oldid=89467 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-27) /* Compile */ Remove nonexistent category 00:54:50 [[PokeType]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101121&oldid=101120 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+57) /* Compile */ Categories 01:22:05 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:23:37 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 01:30:26 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101122&oldid=101117 * PixelatedStarfish * (+50) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 01:34:51 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101123&oldid=101122 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 01:36:00 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101124&oldid=101123 * PixelatedStarfish * (-76) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 01:40:02 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:42:01 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 01:48:25 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101125&oldid=101124 * PixelatedStarfish * (+187) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 01:49:07 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101126&oldid=101125 * PixelatedStarfish * (+1) /* Structs: Defining a Data Type */ 01:54:57 [[Tome]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101127&oldid=53946 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+56) Stub, update link, categories 01:58:13 [[Protogen]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=101128 * Joseppi1 * (+6276) Made the page 02:00:15 [[Protogen]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101129&oldid=101128 * Joseppi1 * (-13) Removed the duplicate title 02:11:33 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101130&oldid=101016 * Joseppi1 * (+15) Added Protogen 04:18:19 -!- MrAureliusR has quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in). 04:19:31 -!- MrAureliusR has joined. 04:24:14 -!- tromp has joined. 04:24:59 -!- tromp has quit (Client Quit). 04:38:13 [[Talk:Ook!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101131&oldid=54484 * LEOMOK * (+77) /* extra instruction idea */ new section 04:46:24 [[Multeq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101132&oldid=100655 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1) 05:18:52 -!- sprout has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:32:00 -!- tromp has joined. 06:09:57 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 06:44:37 -!- tromp has joined. 06:55:48 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 06:58:38 -!- tromp has joined. 06:59:35 -!- tromp has quit (Client Quit). 07:16:48 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:38:07 -!- rodgort has joined. 08:04:23 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 08:04:51 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 08:07:50 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:10:08 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 08:12:03 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Chriso345 * New user account 08:17:51 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101133&oldid=101110 * Chriso345 * (+162) my introduction 08:23:43 -!- sprout has joined. 08:44:38 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:45:01 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 09:56:10 -!- Everything has joined. 10:14:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:12:02 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101134&oldid=99516 * MathigonDec * (+1282) Pixel pattern 11:51:24 [[8BallScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101135&oldid=101102 * Gears * (+51) 11:55:02 hehe, nice article title about a production hardware that makes it sound like esoteric "http://www.righto.com/2020/09/inside-hp-nanoprocessor-high-speed.html" "Inside the HP Nanoprocessor: a high-speed processor that can't even add" 12:03:06 hehe "Inconveniently, the digital watch chip wasn't designed for computer control: it generated 7-segment signals to drive an LED, and it was set through three buttons. To read the time, the Nanoprocessor had to convert the 7-segment display outputs back into digits. And to set the time, the Nanoprocessor had to simulate the right sequence of button presses to advance through the digits." 12:03:42 that is about the internals of a real time clock extension card to a desktop calculator 12:05:39 it only reads time that way once after power on by the way, the clock chip is used to keep time while powered down using a battery, but afterwards the processor of the card keeps the time in itself and increments it to keep the time 12:14:10 -!- sprout has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:17:05 the processor apparently has an 8-bit accumulator plus carry flag, but 16 8-bit registers built in. it indeed has no add or subtract instructions, but this is to be taken with the caveat that it has add 1, subtract 1, various comparisons (which compare either the accumulator with register 0 or with constant 0), and unsigned left and right shifts (accumulator only, without carry) 12:18:30 also it is built to not interface with memory, just compute everything in registers with the program in a ROM 12:19:10 but at least can use lookup tables or jump tables in ROM 12:19:39 so it's clearly made to control peripherials rather than to be used as a central processor in a computer 12:20:24 hmmm 1974. 12:25:40 int-e: yes, that's part of why they needed a cheap processor chip, the 6502 didn't exist yet 12:26:12 though the domain doesn't really match with the 6502, since this is a single chip design usable without RAM and DRAM refresh logic 12:31:55 -!- sprout has joined. 12:57:38 Something I learned the other day: there are microcontrollers (TMS1000?) that use a LFSR for "incrementing" their program counter, because it's cheaper than adding 1. 12:57:44 A suitably chosen N-bit LFSR has a period of 2**N - 1, after all. Of course it means that the sequence "looks random", but the assembler just uses the same order when it's putting the instructions in the ROM, so it all works out. 12:58:55 fizzie: if you like that you'll also like the addressing logic in oerjan's Unlambda interpreter in Intercal 12:59:03 (that uses the same trick) 14:24:56 [[Protogen]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101136&oldid=101129 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+92) Use pre tags, categories 14:30:27 [[8BallScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101137&oldid=101135 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) Remove redlink, add categories 14:31:13 [[8BallScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101138&oldid=101137 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) Link 14:31:54 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101139&oldid=101130 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18) /* Non-alphabetic */ add 14:34:18 -!- Koen has joined. 14:44:09 [[Smalllang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101140&oldid=96924 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) Category 14:53:35 [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101141&oldid=99137 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-12) /* Self BCT */ Update link 14:54:42 [[Refract]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101142&oldid=43915 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+89) /* External resources */ Categories 15:02:18 -!- sprout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:35:12 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101143&oldid=101126 * PixelatedStarfish * (+38) /* Truth Machine */ 15:46:30 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101144&oldid=101143 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* General Palettes */ 15:47:35 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101145&oldid=101144 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Adapted Palettes */ 15:47:54 -!- sprout has joined. 15:48:28 -!- Guest8369 has joined. 15:49:10 What is this? 15:49:34 'guess nobody is here. 15:49:38 -!- Guest8369 has quit (Client Quit). 15:50:13 Zoom! 15:53:03 [[User:Nmcassa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101146&oldid=101035 * Nmcassa * (+16) 15:59:38 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101147&oldid=101145 * PixelatedStarfish * (+29) /* Colors */ 16:01:59 [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101148&oldid=101147 * PixelatedStarfish * (+27) /* Colors */ 16:03:48 [[Brainspin]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=101149 * Nmcassa * (+1233) Created page with "Brainspin is a variant of [[brainfuck]] where there are only three spaces of memory and they are constantly being cycled through, designed by [[User:Nmcassa]] in [[2022]]. ==..." 16:23:14 -!- tromp has joined. 16:26:05 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:52:00 -!- sprout has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:58:18 [[Protogen]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101150&oldid=101136 * Joseppi1 * (+87) Credit 16:58:39 [[Protogen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101151&oldid=101150 * Joseppi1 * (-56) 17:17:11 [[User:Joseppi1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=101152 * Joseppi1 * (+172) Created page with "Hi, I'm Joseppi1. I'm not sure I'm doing this right, but I have some languages I made. Also, [https://github.com/Joseppi007 here]'s my GitHub. ==My Languages== [[Protogen]]" 17:34:51 -!- sprout has joined. 17:42:47 [[Alphabet letters]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101153&oldid=100888 * Nmcassa * (+71) 17:52:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:55:56 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 18:12:34 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:14:15 -!- tromp has joined. 18:20:42 [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101154&oldid=100177 * Gears * (+52) 18:30:22 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:31:41 -!- sprout_ has joined. 18:34:19 -!- tromp has joined. 18:35:36 -!- sprout has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:07:08 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…). 22:00:33 Is there file system with transactions involving multiple files and that file data can contain out-of-band links to other files? 22:00:38 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 22:01:36 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 22:09:14 [ 0.028*6 22:09:14 b_jonas: 0.168 22:10:19 zzo38: I think Windows has support for making transactions involving multiple files, but I'm not sure 22:13:20 It has, but Microsoft has already deprecated that again (they recommend to avoid using it if possible and have stated it might be removed in future versions) 22:14:31 Is there the possibility in Linux, though? 22:17:16 Also, is there anything in the /proc filesystem which you can guarantee if it is the same process or not (e.g. by monotonic timestamps), by use of plain data (so that you do not need to have a file descriptor or anything like that)? 22:21:40 Not sure what you mean by the second question 22:22:50 [[Minimalbf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101156&oldid=101111 * Yes * (+43) 22:24:00 [[Minimalbf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101157&oldid=101156 * Yes * (+58) 22:24:36 zzo38: I don't know, I suspect that if the functionality for multi-file transactions exists on Linux then it would be specific to zfs or btrfs, so you should look there 22:25:39 zzo38: for same process, yes, there was a 64-bit fork/clone counter in /proc, let me look up what its name was 22:28:09 although your question is unclear so I think you aren't asking what I thought 22:30:04 apparently the line starting with "processes " in /proc/stat , though I seem to remember it wasn't that 22:31:42 I mean for a specific process 22:32:22 That you can store the data elsewhere in the computer (even in a temporary file that will be deleted when the system is restarted) and be able to identify it 22:33:08 Ah, something you can check with "was I the process that wrote this data"? 22:33:18 Also, ZFS has a few problems one of which is that only Unicode file names are possible; ext4 does not require file names to be Unicode 22:34:23 sknebel: Yes, although not only that, but also to allow other processes to identify that the process that wrote that data is still currently running and what its process ID is (the last part is easy because you can just store the process ID, but process ID numbers can be reused) 22:36:06 Ah. Hm. 22:42:04 zzo38: what I said helps doing that in a weak sense. save the fork count, get information about processes by using their pid, kill or do other similar actions with them, then read the fork count again. if the process count didn't change since you saved it then you can be sure that any pid that you've seen still refers to the same process, not some other process that happened to get the same pid 22:42:29 if the fork count changed then you have to retry the transaction, and you may have killed the wrong process 22:44:40 I think for a process, /proc also tells its start time, which lets you tell if it changed to another process with the same pid, but you can't really use that without a race condition 22:45:34 What if the current date/time setting of the system is changed, though? Then you should need monotonic timestamps in order to avoid that problem 22:48:42 zzo38: no, the start time is stored as one of the monotonic timestamps 22:49:20 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:49:36 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 22:50:40 Is the start time already monotonic? Is the time of the directory, or some file inside of the directory for the specific process, monotonic? 23:03:34 zzo38: the mtime of directories, I don't think so 23:04:44 Does any data of a file within the directories do? 23:07:25 zzo38: I think there is some data in the process directories, yes, but I'm not certain. 23:14:46 zzo38: I think /proc/pid/auxv has a monotonic start timer, but only to precision of 1 seconds and possibly non-portable 23:14:58 but there's probably some better one 23:15:49 zzo38: ah, /proc/sys has a starttime field 23:24:03 But /proc/sys is not one of the files specific to each process like /proc/42/xyz or whatever 23:33:27 If you open a process directory by the open function, what effect will that have (if any) on the rest of the system (e.g. will it prevent the process ID number from being reused, or otherwise avoid any kind of race conditions; if so, does it depend what version of Linux you are using)? What if it is the current directory? (My attempt finds that if it is the current directory and the process terminates, then trying to use it is an error) 23:35:38 zzo38: sorry, I'm stupid, I mean /proc/$pid/stat 23:36:06 and I don't know the answer to those things about the /proc filesystem 23:40:01 OK 23:41:53 Some older programs such as vi (and also vim) and Heirloom-mailx have commands to use pipes with other programs (specified by the user), but most modern programs lack such features; why is that? I try to include such things in programs I write if it seems useful, though.