> 1659399151 769532 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ajsone14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101571&oldid=44280 5* 03Esolanger12345 5* (+23) 10
< 1659399384 999794 :sprocket!~sprock@user/sprock NICK :sprock
> 1659406054 329539 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G arD^EN CorUtY@rD14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101572&oldid=101492 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-1) 10Remove extra line
< 1659406570 614578 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:8872:2698:a76a:fcfa JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
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< 1659416870 10879 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam
> 1659420997 597182 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03AntThrowPology 5*  10New user account
> 1659421354 989975 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101573&oldid=101446 5* 03AntThrowPology 5* (+243) 10/* Introductions */
< 1659423476 949940 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
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< 1659426834 232590 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1659430187 75943 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1659430640 311197 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: re https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-07.html#lkEb about shapez.io, I decided eventually to not use the same mine for more than one different output. When I did, then to keep up the balance between the two without the machine getting clogged. To solve this, either I have to vent both of the outputs to trash (at lower priority)
< 1659430640 810533 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which means that even when neither output is used to full capacity, the machine will produce at full capacity, which makes debugging harder and I suspect might waste computation time; or I need some stupid two-tank stateful wire thingy to trash only as many shapes as there's excess of use of the other shape, of which I did make a proof of concept
< 1659430641 310935 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's kind of silly.
< 1659431306 948418 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"<zzo38> I had started to write a change file for patching SQLite to not use Unicode" => all the parts that use unicode are already optional. there's a statement hidden in https://sqlite.org/invalidutf.html that if you never cause sqlite to convert strings to utf-16 (such as with the sqlite3_value_text16 or sqlite3_result_text16 functions, or
< 1659431307 448717 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :PRAGMA encoding, or substr SQL function) then all its operations work on any byte strings.
< 1659431439 974167 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also don't think it causes SQLite to run slower, except from minor effects from the code having some parts that you don't use, but there's almost always large parts of the SQLite code that you don't use in your program regardless.
< 1659431592 676585 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1659431594 758147 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"<zzo38> Does any UNIX shell have a command to create a unnamed temporary file and then returns the file path in /proc to that file" => no, because /proc isn't even a Unix thing, it was invented by Linux specifically. but it wouldn't be hard to write this yourself in C.
< 1659431671 893388 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"<companion_cube> Can you even have nameless files on Linux?" => yes, you could always create a file and unlink it and handle it that way. these days you can even create files unnamed. there are filesystem limitations, in particular "unnamed" files on NTFS will have a name.
< 1659433641 222896 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1659434154 695469 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
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< 1659434948 194238 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1659435246 705125 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://xkcd.com/2653/ => I'm disappointed that this has no goat parts
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< 1659440897 88386 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1659441746 60398 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1659442970 532126 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs : /lastlog int-e 2
< 1659443161 963456 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :@type second
< 1659443163 202476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs :Arrow a => a b c -> a (d, b) (d, c)
< 1659443166 656439 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1659443168 1114 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: I have output overflow buffers to compensate for uneven loads... but still, this harvester isn't worth it; the shapes are far too unevenly distributed for that (circles seem to be so abundant that you can find *pure* circles far out, while the windmill shape is hard to find even in quarters. Rectangles and stars seem to be frequently available in halfs.
< 1659443168 960862 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :@type snd
< 1659443170 215679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs :(a, b) -> b
< 1659443211 481889 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(overflow buffers: see the storage thingies to the right in https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-monster-v2.png )
< 1659443265 742575 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I'm going to use single-shape harvesters as well. Ressources are plentiful in the game and wasting them saves significant space.
< 1659443837 65302 :wib_jonas3!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1659443878 424315 :wib_jonas3!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, that's the former solution, you're always running that machine even if much less is consumed than it can produce\
< 1659443911 558011 :wib_jonas3!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I made a working solution that avoids that for two outputs, but never tried more than two outputs
< 1659443916 640624 :wib_jonas3!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :why would I even want more than two outputs?
< 1659443935 131291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-94.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu QUIT :Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by wib_jonas3!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu))
< 1659443939 812478 :wib_jonas3!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu NICK :b_jonas
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< 1659444042 102633 :b_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu NICK :wib_jonas
< 1659444053 25647 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oops, I ghosted the wrong thing
< 1659444055 981487 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway
< 1659444305 507635 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think at one point I even made a stupid design for the rocket where I had two submachines that gave two outputs each and consumed one output of the other, which also locks up super easily. but I'm not sure of the details.
< 1659446266 569473 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:4372:4803:df2c:7c5 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1659446565 558602 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam
< 1659446783 425132 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:4372:4803:df2c:7c5 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1659446804 573615 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:8872:2698:a76a:fcfa JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1659446940 1960 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: Hmm. I have a slice factory, but how do I copy it... do I really need to copy the layers separately...
< 1659448321 784979 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: if you mean the belt/machine layer and the wire/gate layer then yes
< 1659448332 631852 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah that's what I meant
< 1659448348 824263 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, that's a FAQ, it probably won't be changed in shapez.io 1
< 1659448420 561498 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is a bit annoying... copying is kind of okay actually, but moving things is destructive when the layers collide. As I'm sure you know... I'm just discovering this.
< 1659448516 71776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"two submachines that gave two outputs each and consumed one output of the other" ... that does sound insane. How do you even get that started?
< 1659448569 572381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have one or two large factories where I had to drain some internal lines to get things up to speed. No huge lockups yet.
< 1659448609 781687 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I mean, no huge lockups from machines that I thought were running smoothly... obviously all sorts of things go wrong while editing)
< 1659448653 735658 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1659448746 622077 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Other things I wish I could do... get rid of all the garbage stored in the hub.
< 1659448790 431065 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(selectively)
< 1659449066 968916 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's actually a good feature, even if it doesn't seem like that at first.. Having to copy both layers is a very small inconvenience. If copy+paste or delete acted on both layers, then I could edit a part of the factory that's completely in the belt layer, and wouldn't even notice that I broke an unrelated wire that happens to cross through
< 1659449067 473901 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that between other sections, since the wires are completely invisible when I do this.
< 1659449107 681499 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure, it has to be a deliberate choice
< 1659449122 561519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I guess we've run out of modifiers already
< 1659449143 841471 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shift, ctrl, alt, what is this, emacs?
< 1659449242 617564 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: as for the two co-dependent submachines, dunno, I can try to reconstruct why that happened later
< 1659449316 78465 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: so are you trying to solve freeplay levels yet? and which section of freeplay levels (there are between two to seven sections depending on how you count)?
< 1659449357 581486 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't even done the first freeplay level. Though I'm about ready for that, I think.
< 1659449384 108635 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :have you solved all non-freeplay levels?
< 1659449395 781691 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes.
< 1659449453 1698 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also got everything to tier 15? Factor 8.9. But that's just because designing an automated factory takes so long.
< 1659449492 566967 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, that's how "not idle game" usually works, there's always something else to do while you wait for something. that's definitely a feature.
< 1659449561 685386 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :mind you, shapez.io gets this partly wrong because it only tells you about one level shape at a time, you don't see the next ones so you can't start building for the next one while you're waiting for a slow machine of the previous one
< 1659449599 617917 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is especially annoying in freeplay, which you could play much faster if the hub gave you the next shape
< 1659449751 636961 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it helps a bit that there are two hard puzzles to solve for upgrades while you are solving the last non-freeplay levels
< 1659449802 578237 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but even so, other games often do it better, always giving you several goals that you know of so you can think ahead
< 1659449904 676932 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually worked a bit on reducing the factory's latency on switchovers.
< 1659449959 91851 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh well. I'll probably say something when the pieces come together.
< 1659449964 204974 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it's not just about the waiting, there are intermediate shapes that I want to build a bigger factory of immediately because I know it's needed for another level or upgrade, most importantly I want more of the tier 5 stacking upgrade shape because the tier 6 shape needs it
< 1659449993 23032 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also the tier 5 and 6 painting shapes
< 1659450024 207421 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact, all four pairs of tier 5 and 6 shapes are like this
< 1659450063 988716 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh you mean the thing where the next tier just adds another layer of the same kind on top
< 1659450127 19211 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the painting upgrade does that; the other three upgrades add another layer but not of the same kind
< 1659450628 631655 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-foo.png ...fun little corner case (it does what I thought it would)
< 1659450959 731546 :sknebel!~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de PRIVMSG #esolangs :has anyone turned shapez into an esolang already?
< 1659451085 571267 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, if you allow infinite towers, can you do arbitrary computations without the wire layer? :P
< 1659451542 413605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: I watched this yesterday, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3CroGG9wKE ...clearly having a list of shapes in advance is very helpful (and there's some pretty clever planning in there when it comes to reusing machinery. not that I really followed what those modificationss did exactly)
< 1659451611 882713 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:8872:2698:a76a:fcfa QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1659451622 311642 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I like how the last 18 minutes is just "waiting for rockets".
< 1659451782 276280 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: as for fun little corner cases, did you know that (a) the mixer can mix pigments redundantly, with both inputs being dark on one channel, (b) the hub doesn't accept pigments, so belts to the hub can be blocked just like belts to most machines?
< 1659451864 380874 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: (a) yes, but why would I waste paint like that? (b) you mentioned that the other day.
< 1659451887 166751 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I found out about the "B" key yesterday. That's so much better than cutting and repasting.
< 1659451897 771499 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(And it should work on the hub. I hope.)
< 1659451903 426746 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:8872:2698:a76a:fcfa JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1659451917 514539 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(This is when you have a selection; "B" clears selected belts)
< 1659451953 126388 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are also some more usable tricks that you might be spoiled on by now
< 1659452011 93800 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :almost certainly if you watched a speedrun
< 1659452056 391801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, I saw a few cute editing tricks. But I don't care too much about fast editing.
< 1659452089 591072 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've glimpsed at some machines that look quite compact, but I didn't actually try to work them out.
< 1659452097 692853 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't mean editing, I mean that unintended thing on how to reduce latency on long belts
< 1659452137 334704 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah.
< 1659452160 831306 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, that was in the 16 minutes speedrun to blueprints... that was funny.
< 1659452171 131338 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I might use it later. Maybe.
< 1659452251 807608 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and also for how to get more than 16 belts' worth speed of shapes into the hub
< 1659452327 477194 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, 16 minutes to blueprints? that can't be the same thing, you don't unlock the latency reduction until later
< 1659452376 204317 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGLpoVbm4JY
< 1659452431 731947 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: can you give a timestamp?
< 1659452434 350312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The player mentions the lower latency in passing.
< 1659452453 917110 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, so it's just in the dialog
< 1659452476 868150 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the latency test at https://i.stack.imgur.com/ITv1a.png gives away the secret)
< 1659452538 801990 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm pretty sure he mentioned that just making a highway of those merger/splitters would make things arrive a bit faster. But I may have forgotten about a caveat, I wasn't paying close attention.
< 1659452630 515837 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no it wouldn't
< 1659452647 422834 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :mergers or splitters would be slower or have the same latency at best case
< 1659452670 827871 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :balancers can help increase the *throughput* to the hub, if you place them properly
< 1659452681 970579 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesn't help with the latency of a highway
< 1659452721 120894 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I'll worry about these things later, or possibly never.
< 1659452727 3793 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and AFAIU using balancers is the only way to get more than four belt speed's worth into the hub
< 1659452747 315805 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I never used that accidental feature by the way, only the latency reduction
< 1659452755 377064 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :... yet?
< 1659452773 852703 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I meant the balancer, I'm just thinking of it as a combined merger and splitter.
< 1659452818 592019 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, and a balancer can't help you reduce latency of a long distance highway compared to a long straight belt
< 1659452871 185336 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless there's some FPS-dependent phenomenon that I haven't seen that is
< 1659453008 861151 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, you're wrong.
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< 1659453618 652025 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: I just started with https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/balancer-1.png triggered by pasting in 4 belt pieces (so they start simultaneously), and arrival ~140 blocks further to the right looked like this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/balancer-2.png. That's with a speedup of 8.9 for everything, maybe that matters (rounding? I have not looked at any code.)
< 1659453780 978411 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: dunno, that might match https://i.stack.imgur.com/ITv1a.png where apparently the first square arrives earlier but the next one later than the ones from the belt.
< 1659453874 240206 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so maybe you can get better latency for one or two shapes, but sadly it's something like the 100th to 400th shape that will matter
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< 1659455669 988477 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, let's use a bigger setup then... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/balancer-3.png arrival: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/balancer-4.png 256 squares worth of stuff later: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/balancer-5.png ...looks pretty much the same (damn, I should've made sure to make those screenshots at the same scale)
< 1659456003 868423 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: hey, that's not fair! I have no reason to think that curved belts behave the same as straight belts
< 1659456016 724394 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, sorry, that's just the input buffer
< 1659456033 470685 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just used miners that saturate the belts plus circuits to start and stop them for that
< 1659456035 884939 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no buffer
< 1659456048 580737 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also interesting
< 1659456059 58600 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that shows that the balancers are a bit faster for you
< 1659456061 958842 :LaughingMan!~aleph@72.80.0.136 NICK :Church
< 1659456064 964882 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know what to think then
< 1659456088 645466 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in any case that no longer matters in late game, which is when you care about the latency more
< 1659456098 716663 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :er postgame I mean
< 1659456106 432543 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :freeplay is postgame, right?
< 1659456516 39641 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :works for me
< 1659456542 251287 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: I was worried about the curves even for the buffer... but all paths have the same curving, so it should be fair.
< 1659456558 742881 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :length for that experiment was 144 exactly
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> 1659456829 781829 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BunnyBell14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101574&oldid=101477 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+231) 10/* Casting */
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< 1659457045 281120 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :tunnels, otoh, seem to introduce a bit of a delay
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< 1659457644 581545 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh but with 9x speedup that delay is significantly smaller. So... maybe a similar thing could be happening with the balancer where the results vary with the speedup factor?
< 1659457699 225685 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: quite possible. the details of everything like this depend on fps so they probably depend on the upgrades too
< 1659457726 691551 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :In any case, none of this seems very relevant. I can see the value of throughput, but a 5, maybe 10% reduction in latency? Not something I actually worry about. It's a fascinating phenomenon though.
< 1659457750 89810 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and by fps I mean the setting that sets the number of computed frames per in-game seconds, which are often be slower than real time if the game is lagging
< 1659457783 268003 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, it usually doesn't matter
< 1659457787 940942 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Tick rate is 60Hz, fwiw.
< 1659457812 875087 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's the default, yes
< 1659457854 207904 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that makes it even more moot because the better way to get low latency for long straight passages works better at high tick rate than low tick rate
< 1659457991 225502 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, enough experimentation. In fact, enough of that game for today. I'll assemble and finally complete level 27 tomorrow. And then I'll see what twists await me.
< 1659458133 850244 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :good
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> 1659459723 191301 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101576&oldid=101559 5* 03Yes 5* (+104) 10
> 1659459754 900611 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101577&oldid=101576 5* 03Yes 5* (+80) 10
> 1659459773 820539 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Yes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101578&oldid=101577 5* 03Yes 5* (+4) 10
> 1659459806 38361 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101579&oldid=101508 5* 03Yes 5* (-5) 10
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< 1659463547 755083 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
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< 1659480341 636128 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1659483908 683742 :Guest667!~Guest66@216-21-163-7.slc.googlefiber.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest66
< 1659483942 664631 :Guest667!~Guest66@216-21-163-7.slc.googlefiber.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :01->1# +# :# 0# g# ,# :# 5# 8# *# 4# +# -# _@
< 1659484353 946612 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! befunge 01->1# +# :# 0# g# ,# :# 5# 8# *# 4# +# -# _@   just for the record
< 1659484355 334139 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :01->1# +# :# 0# g# ,# :# 5# 8# *# 4# +# -# _@
< 1659484552 692514 :Guest667!~Guest66@216-21-163-7.slc.googlefiber.net NICK :unicode1
< 1659484601 167544 :unicode1!~Guest66@216-21-163-7.slc.googlefiber.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_Awards so they stopped after 2006?
< 1659484607 722358 :unicode1!~Guest66@216-21-163-7.slc.googlefiber.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :whats to stop it from being revived?