←2022-08-02 2022-08-03 2022-08-04→ ↑2022 ↑all
00:05:32 <fizzie> `! befunge >:#+0#1g# ,#$:#$46*-#1_ @ shortened down a little
00:05:33 <HackEso> ​>:#+0#1g# ,#$:#$46*-#1_ @
00:05:45 <fizzie> (I don't like bidirectional oneliners that leave the other direction entirely empty.)
00:06:22 <esolangs> [[ASCIIORb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101580&oldid=92752 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-8) Removed the erroneous argument STAQ, which does not contribute to the REP command, from the example, and amended the description of the Numerical stack regarding the transfer of its elements into the Queue stack.
00:07:29 <esolangs> [[ASCIIORb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101581&oldid=101580 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+166) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the ASCIIORb programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
00:08:31 <fizzie> As for the awards, I imagine nothing else is stopping them from being revived than general laziness and antipathy. Many other things have just... stopped, too.
00:10:06 <esolangs> [[ASCIIORb]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101582&oldid=101581 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+360) Added an example section with an initial member.
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00:22:46 <unicode1b> look at all the spam they had back in 2009:http://esolangs.org/forum/
00:23:03 <unicode1b> or wait 2011
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01:03:53 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101583&oldid=101575 * PixelatedStarfish * (+50) /* Assignment */
01:05:19 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101584&oldid=101583 * PixelatedStarfish * (+126) /* Assignment */
01:05:35 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101585&oldid=101584 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Assignment */
01:05:52 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101586&oldid=101585 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Assignment */
01:10:48 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101587&oldid=101586 * PixelatedStarfish * (+118) /* Specifying Function Input Types */
01:11:28 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101588&oldid=101587 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* Specifying Function Input Types */
01:27:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:G arD^EN CorUtY@rD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=101589 * Salpynx * (+967) start of an interpreter
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03:04:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101590&oldid=101242 * AntThrowPology * (+0)
03:06:31 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101591&oldid=101588 * PixelatedStarfish * (+78) /* Sources */
03:06:48 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101592&oldid=101591 * PixelatedStarfish * (+0) /* External Links */
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07:16:22 <esolangs> [[4]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101593&oldid=78009 * XKCD Random Number * (+258) THIS IS NOT A BOUNDED STORAGE MACHINE!!
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07:44:33 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101594&oldid=101374 * XKCD Random Number * (+881) Eso2D prints 0 by mistake
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09:42:28 <wib_jonas> heh, the link from https://www.w3.org/Protocols/ to RFC 7321 is broken
09:42:47 <wib_jonas> a site that works is http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc7321.html just in case you need one
09:44:03 <wib_jonas> sorry http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc7231.html , I got the number wrong
09:46:10 <int-e> wib_jonas: reached level 101, but not fully automated (I did some manual buffering to amplify the throughput; my sole factory only saturates one belt, and I want to tweak it a bit more before duplicating it)
09:47:06 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-101.png ...could be worse. (The part directly above the hub needs tweaks.)
09:47:31 <int-e> (I hoped 101 would have a twist, but nope.)
09:48:23 <int-e> not in the screenshot: resource gathering (4 belts worth of each shape and color)
09:48:54 <wib_jonas> int-e: makes sense. the machines that I used to solve freeplay levels was controlled manually by buttons. first I made it completely button-controlled with no logic at all, then added more and more logic into it. at one stage it had only like six buttons remaining to make it work, and could plausibly have been operated by randomly mashing buttons
09:48:55 <wib_jonas> every twenty seconds.
09:51:02 <int-e> Yeah I wanted full automation for slices
09:51:19 <int-e> So it took me a while to get there :)
09:54:07 <wib_jonas> and no, the next change twist is I think somewhere above level 299 and then final one somewhere above level 587, but there's no twist, only that the required amount of shapes keeps growing until you need more than 4 then more than 8 belts to the hub to deliver the freeplay shapes.
09:54:27 <int-e> Before the numbers exceeded a full belt's worth, it automatically solved levels at 1 per 40s (well, except each time it added more slices)
09:56:04 <wib_jonas> (that's not the full story, I also had to rebuild large parts of the machine because I had incorrect ideas about what the later freeplay shapes would be like, so the machine that happened to work for the two layer shapes didn't scale like I planned)
09:56:56 <wib_jonas> I'm probably getting the level numbers wrong here by the way
09:57:03 <int-e> it's fine
09:57:18 <wib_jonas> also one level per 40 seconds is quite quick, my machine is much slower than that\
09:57:29 <int-e> I did anticipate holes in slices.
09:58:04 <int-e> That was with 3 slices though, hmm. I guess it's closer to a minute now. I /did/ put in some logic to drain some lines of unwanted items though, which seems to be working.
09:58:10 <wib_jonas> I don't know how fast it was for the early levels admittedly, since at that time I was still actively editing the machine
09:58:57 <int-e> I did learn that the storage block can be clogged. That'll be annoying.
09:59:11 <wib_jonas> in particular right after solving the first freeplay level, I made sure to have a museum, a long belt where I store exactly one copy of every freeplay shape. the mechanism to separate exactly one shape proved to be quite tricky to make, even if I made a manual button-controlled one at first
09:59:42 <int-e> hah
09:59:55 <wib_jonas> eventually I managed to fully automate this, so I believe that I do have two museums with exactly one copy of all freeplay shape starting from the very first one in them
10:00:45 <wib_jonas> it's two museums just for redundancy in case I accidentally erase into one by trying to scroll the screen with the right mouse button, since my fingers were very used to that from OpenTTD
10:01:14 <wib_jonas> but the first few freeplay shapes were sent in there by a button-controlled one-shape-separator mechanism
10:01:58 <wib_jonas> I guess you could call it trophy room instead of museum
10:02:09 <int-e> either works
10:03:49 <wib_jonas> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/706121159405731913/867988301276123186/a.png shows a snapshot of the museum, and by the way, DON'T try to make the belts of the museum shaped like that tight space-filling curve, it seems like a good idea at first but the shapez.io interface really hates it
10:04:21 <wib_jonas> you think you could just make that fractal belt by repeatedly doubling a belt with the copy-paste mechanism, but no, that doesn't work
10:04:46 <wib_jonas> I should have given up early and made either just a zig-zag or a less tight space-filling curve with a tile of gap between the belts, but I was stubborn
10:05:43 <int-e> belts autoconnect in weird ways
10:05:47 <int-e> it's quite vexing
10:06:10 <int-e> I see you gave up a bit to the left :)
10:06:44 <int-e> or is that the second museum, hmm.
10:07:06 <wib_jonas> int-e: no, https://i.stack.imgur.com/s18LD.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/mlWIS.png
10:07:34 <wib_jonas> they're big because I knew it would be very hard to extend it later without losing a shape
10:08:17 <int-e> right.
10:08:32 <int-e> you could've started with a bunch of filler shapes for that purpose
10:08:47 * int-e shrugs
10:08:50 <wib_jonas> now in theory I may be able to replace the first few shapes from screenshots, but I'd rather not worry about that
10:13:55 <wib_jonas> so I think the timeline was, build a button-controlled machine based on incorrect ideas about the freeplay shapes, use it to solve the first freeplay level, build the museum and the button-controlled separating mechanism, solve a few dozen levels while researching freeplay shapes more and realizing that the machine won't scale, almost completely
10:13:56 <wib_jonas> rebuild the button-controlled freeplay machine, automate the museum, slightly improve freeplay machine, gradually semi-automate the freeplay machine and eventually completely automate it, decide that it's finished and replace the long belt sections with storages because I'm lazy to try to move the machine closer to the hub
10:16:05 <wib_jonas> no wait, that last part isn't quite right
10:16:08 <int-e> yeah moving stuff is painful
10:18:36 <wib_jonas> somewhere around the end I built a buffering mechanism around the hub to collect shapes and let them into the hub all that once, first on just eight belts then twelve, because the machine can only output four belts' worth and I didn't want to build it bigger, then automated that buffering mechanism (I made the counting mechanism way more
10:18:37 <wib_jonas> complicated than it should be), and fine tuned it
10:19:00 <wib_jonas> and probably replaced the long belt sections with storages only near the end of that
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10:36:30 <int-e> Apparently one can make this and I have no clue how: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-wtf.png
10:38:27 <wib_jonas> int-e: I believe the players figured out some implementable test for exactly what shapes you can and can't build and how to build them, and exactly one player built a machine that can fully automatically build any shape that can be built, but I haven't tried to understand any details of that other than seeing why it's a hard problem
10:38:30 <int-e> (Not sure; this is computer generated based on my current understanding of cutting and stacking.)
10:39:04 <int-e> Yeah I'm doing the first part of that, but I'm treating the game as a black box.
10:39:11 <wib_jonas> in particular, I don't understand whether you ever need to stack shapes in a way that would result in more than four layers to create some shapes
10:39:29 <int-e> Good question, hmm. I can check that.
10:39:49 <wib_jonas> the source code is available, but I never tried to read how exactly stacking works, I read it to understand exactly how freeplay shapes are generated
10:40:09 <wib_jonas> I do believe I understand the freeplay shape generation mechanism though
10:42:18 <int-e> My program says yes... there are 48432 arrangements with truncated stacking and 44328 without.
10:43:08 <int-e> (Out of 2^16 if you naively place holes or shapes, disregarding the game physics)
10:44:06 <int-e> ironically I can't easily give an example of that :P
10:44:12 <wib_jonas> is that the number of arrangements that you can create?
10:44:31 <int-e> Oh maybe I can... the wtf shape is probably such an example.
10:45:38 <wib_jonas> wait, 2**16? that's way too little. four layers with no holes gives 2**80
10:45:55 <wib_jonas> oh, you mean arrangements where you ignore the colors and shapes of the pieces?
10:46:04 <int-e> I'm just worrying about which spaces are occupied, not shapes or colors.
10:46:12 <wib_jonas> that might make sense
10:46:49 <int-e> Once you have worked out how to create such an arrangement you can work backwards and figure out where each piece originated, and place the right shape and color there.
10:47:02 <wib_jonas> right, that's enough to determine if the shape can be built
10:47:33 <int-e> (and we know how to make arbitrary slices)
10:51:07 <int-e> I really want to call this a shape... shapes could be types, and colors would still be colors. :P
10:52:08 <wib_jonas> no, color items on belts are pigments
10:52:15 <wib_jonas> or paint if you prefer
10:52:40 <wib_jonas> color is the property that they or parts of a shape have
10:52:43 <int-e> Anyway, terminology is hard.
10:52:48 <wib_jonas> sure
10:53:20 <wib_jonas> but "shape" is in the name of the game and I don't think it refers to what you want it to mean
10:53:41 <int-e> Maybe I could compromise of called the arrangement the type of a shape.
10:54:05 <int-e> s/of/on/?
10:54:51 <wib_jonas> dunno
10:55:37 <int-e> "Of" is definitely wrong, "on" may be correct. "called" should be "calling". Grammar is hard in real time.
10:56:23 <wib_jonas> the brief description of the game on Steam is "shapez is a game about building factories to automate the creation and processing of increasingly complex shapes across an infinitely expanding map." I think that fixes what a shape is.
10:57:06 <wib_jonas> But if that's a shape, the what do you call one of the four possible shapes that a corner can have, R C S W?
10:57:47 <int-e> *I*'m calling those shapes, but I realize that this is troubling.
10:58:17 <wib_jonas> yeah, they're corner shapes
10:58:24 <int-e> sectors if you will
10:58:27 <int-e> or quadrants
10:58:46 <int-e> but those should comprise a shape and a color
10:58:53 <int-e> (or absence of both)
11:01:45 <wib_jonas> ok, so is uncolored (gray) a color?
11:01:48 <wib_jonas> :-P
11:02:18 <int-e> hmm. yes.
11:02:21 <int-e> maybe.
11:02:29 <int-e> I think it's a color but not a paint :P
11:02:39 <int-e> A bit of a pain though ;)
11:03:37 <wib_jonas> it's not much of a pain as things I had to handle in my freeplay machine go
11:04:46 <wib_jonas> that the fricking missing corner can break the symmetry of the shape was the really big pain, the machine would be so much simpler without that
11:05:04 <wib_jonas> I consider that an ascended bug in the freeplay shape generating code
11:06:08 <int-e> Somehow, I did plan for both unpainted pieces and missing corners in my slice maker.
11:06:43 <int-e> What I'm afraid of is that the final stacking may get interesting.
11:07:36 <int-e> But I'll see. For now it's cleanup (I expect I'll need to deal with variable number of slices, that's the obvious *easy* tweak on stacking) and a bit more throughput.
11:09:32 <wib_jonas> It won't.
11:10:29 <wib_jonas> and I did account for this from the start, but it was still a pain
11:10:56 <int-e> Making slices with holes is the only place where I have binary logic gates.
11:11:42 <wib_jonas> well sure, you don't need the logic gates because you can do any computation by applying the the equals gate to booleans
11:12:30 <wib_jonas> or at least I think you can
11:12:34 <wib_jonas> maybe not
11:12:37 <int-e> That's a linear function.
11:12:49 <int-e> (negated xor)
11:13:17 <int-e> But what I meant is that the rest is either straight comparisons or negations thereof
11:13:34 <int-e> or double negations is very few places
11:13:38 <wib_jonas> right, so you may need transistors and use missing values or conflicts with the stupid rules that shapez.io logic has
11:14:46 <int-e> Anyway, it's nice to have this part working :)
11:17:35 <wib_jonas> no, I'm incorrect
11:18:02 <int-e> a transistor will give you an and gate, more or less.
11:18:47 <wib_jonas> on booleans yes, but it does more on shape or pigment signals, it lets you do conditionals on them
11:18:47 <int-e> (you can fix the caveats by adding a double negation to the output)
11:18:56 <int-e> oh, sure.
11:19:10 <int-e> haven't done that yet either
11:19:18 <wib_jonas> and even on boolean-or-missing-or-conflict I think it does more than just an or gate
11:19:36 <wib_jonas> it gives you an easier way to implement some kinds of flip-flop
11:19:57 <int-e> Anyway, that's an unexplored area for me.
11:19:59 <wib_jonas> I think
11:20:12 <int-e> I only had booleans in mind
11:20:18 <wib_jonas> honestly I hate shapez.io wire logic and tried to forget most of what I figured out about it\
11:20:44 <wib_jonas> the whole wires update is designed incredibly badly compared to how good the base game is
11:20:53 <int-e> so if you really wanted to, you could do without the or and and gates and still make full logic work.
11:21:08 <wib_jonas> adding logic and wires is a good idea, but the specific design is really hard to use
11:21:10 <int-e> modulo timing
11:21:14 <int-e> which I'm sure is a mess
11:21:36 <int-e> and which I guess you had to mess around with to get the single shape isolator to work
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12:36:53 <int-e> wib_jonas: Aah, I messed up the wtf shape, I misread my bitmasks. https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-wtf.png is a bit less precariously balanced.
12:37:42 <int-e> And in fact I see how to make that.
12:42:31 <int-e> (bitmasks: In my program, the arrangement is encoded as 0x3431, where each nibble represents a slice in circular order (say, clockwise)) And somehow I thought that 1 and 3 didn't overlap. Stupid.
12:42:35 <int-e> )
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12:55:11 <wib_jonas> I see
12:55:39 <wib_jonas> did you manage to find a specific arrangement that requires fifth layer dropping?
12:55:49 <wib_jonas> I wonder what the simplest one is
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13:06:49 <int-e> hmm, "simplest"
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13:26:54 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-overflow.png is a good candidate for simplest, I think.
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13:27:34 <int-e> err, wait a minute... I messed up once more
13:29:32 <int-e> wib_jonas: Okay, now fixed. https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-overflow.png
13:30:49 <int-e> There's no arrangements of height 3 that benefit from overflowing.
13:32:06 <int-e> (which makes sense: when an overflow happens, all layers are occupied, so you need to cut something. But we can make all possible half-shapes by stacking three-quarter slices, and then cutting off one half)
13:33:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101595&oldid=101573 * Eso-t * (+179) /* Introductions */
13:34:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Eso-t * uploaded "[[File:ONABOBFE4P BF Curse Interpreter.gif]]"
13:39:33 <esolangs> [[User:Eso-t]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=101597 * Eso-t * (+2628) Created page with "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nam ut iaculis leo. Sed ut diam quis mi iaculis posuere. Ut id tristique tellus, eget accumsan turpis. Integer non lib..."
13:45:56 <wib_jonas> "There's no arrangements of height 3 that benefit from overflowing." => hmm, I was wondering for a moment how that would even be plausible, but in fact you can cut a 4 layer shape to get a 3 layer shape, so this isn't obvious
13:46:18 <wib_jonas> yeah, what you said
13:46:19 <wib_jonas> thank you
13:46:51 <esolangs> [[ONABOBFE4P]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=101598 * Eso-t * (+1399) Created page with "[[File:ONABOBFE4P BF Curse Interpreter.gif|thumb|alt=[Image of interpreter]|One of ONABOBFE4P's BrainFuck interpreters (the one that uses curses)]] :''Oh no, Another Bunch Of..."
13:47:27 <esolangs> [[ONABOBFE4P]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101599&oldid=101598 * Eso-t * (+60)
13:48:49 <wib_jonas> I recommend an url like https://viewer.shapez.io/?CwCwCwCw:CuCuCuCu:------Cw:CrCrCr-- to describe a shape by the way, it's more self-contained than your image link
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13:56:53 <int-e> wib_jonas: Proof of feasibility: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-overflow-poc.png
13:57:07 <int-e> "Error"
13:58:13 <int-e> So basically, the rocket trick, but you can shave off the supporting part.
13:58:19 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101600&oldid=101410 * Eso-t * (+272)
13:58:35 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101601&oldid=101600 * Eso-t * (-2) /* Python interpreters */
14:04:41 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101602&oldid=101411 * Eso-t * (+395) /* Normal implementations */
14:05:22 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101603&oldid=101602 * Eso-t * (-3) /* Normal implementations */
14:06:42 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101604&oldid=101601 * Eso-t * (+3) /* Python interpreters */
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15:34:24 <wib_jonas> int-e: thank you, that's a nice illustration
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16:14:59 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101605&oldid=101592 * PixelatedStarfish * (+2) /* External Links */
16:29:37 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101606&oldid=101605 * PixelatedStarfish * (+470) /* Sources */
16:55:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Bor0 * moved [[Budge]] to [[Budge-PL]]
16:55:59 <esolangs> [[Budge-PL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101609&oldid=101607 * Bor0 * (+15)
16:56:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101610&oldid=101554 * Bor0 * (+3)
17:00:58 <esolangs> [[Budge-PL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101611&oldid=101609 * Bor0 * (+9)
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18:11:23 <esolangs> [[ONABOBFE4P]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101612&oldid=101599 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+78) Add categories
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18:39:18 <esolangs> [[Teramithic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101613&oldid=93306 * Digital Hunter * (+2) /* Factorial */ really silly typo
18:40:25 <esolangs> [[Teramithic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101614&oldid=101613 * Digital Hunter * (+3) /* Factorial */ this is embarassing. These are all going to be changed anyway once i update the page to match the newest version of Teramithic
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19:25:31 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101615&oldid=101606 * PixelatedStarfish * (+76) /* Grammar in EBNF */
20:03:20 <esolangs> [[BunnyBell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101616&oldid=101615 * PixelatedStarfish * (+102) /* Grammar in EBNF */
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22:37:33 <esolangs> [[Teramithic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101617&oldid=101614 * Digital Hunter * (+1332) /* Expressions, variables, and functions */ updated to match most recent revision of this language, closest yet in spirit to its creative principles. Fixed example programs are necessary
22:43:25 <esolangs> [[User:Yes/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=101618 * Yes * (+51) Created page with "THIS IS MAH SANDBOXZ DEAL WITH IT!!!1!!!!11!1!!11!!"
22:45:56 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=101619&oldid=101579 * Yes * (+68)
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