< 1662422783 299194 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-151.play-internet.pl QUIT : < 1662422815 736622 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662422836 794637 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662423087 141887 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662423107 886688 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662423715 810217 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662423736 705688 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662423987 207503 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662424008 964149 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662424037 368470 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662424053 216050 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse > 1662424138 862975 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bbe doc downloadable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102947&oldid=102424 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+4712) 10 > 1662424157 786814 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bbe doc downloadable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102948&oldid=102947 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-267) 10 > 1662424238 236830 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bbe doc downloadable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102949&oldid=102948 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-1639) 10 > 1662426209 540387 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bbe doc downloadable14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102950&oldid=102949 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-76) 10 < 1662426757 240587 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662426800 225977 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662427015 939608 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662427035 735285 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662427286 945743 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662427306 696996 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662429674 888743 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662429691 234508 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662432732 560973 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662432751 270373 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662433840 920829 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662433853 267968 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662435715 697188 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662435735 716674 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662436287 285054 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662436307 829744 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662436915 808380 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662436937 798832 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662437187 480259 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662437208 698724 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662437515 700788 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662437534 701803 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662437787 76112 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662437807 704126 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662440151 331625 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1662441381 998774 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1662442162 446493 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1662443803 902099 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1662448085 251806 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1662449230 434937 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1662449293 521804 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net JOIN #esolangs m5zs7k :m5zs7k < 1662451391 305447 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662451727 231588 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662452358 642803 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1662452377 885250 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662452393 222041 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662452510 232957 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1662452566 951482 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1662452670 496102 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1662452690 849128 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1662454015 855628 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662454035 698463 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662454286 978646 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662454307 783099 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662455515 801920 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662455535 802788 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662455787 345924 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662455807 781629 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662455867 576193 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1662457663 769107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102951&oldid=102946 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+31) 10/* control flow */ < 1662457898 782957 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1662457915 867243 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662457935 795708 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf > 1662458028 616778 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102952&oldid=102951 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (-1) 10/* the complcated stuff */ > 1662458151 172012 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102953&oldid=102952 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (-2) 10/* lua code you can use */ < 1662458187 358447 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662458206 738775 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662458581 778368 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1662458722 311643 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102954&oldid=102953 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+0) 10/* the complcated stuff */ > 1662458778 10560 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102955&oldid=102954 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (-2) 10 < 1662458815 750637 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662458835 787656 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662459006 425416 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I think I have figured out the production building story. There's *four* layers. There's an input layer that accepts items from the outside. That can buffer a single item per input slot. Then, there's the actual processing layer, which collects up to two batches of input (two per input slot); processing starts when the first batch is complete. The produced items are moved to an ejection... < 1662459012 402884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :..."queue" (but only if it's empty, so that holds at most one batch). And that feeds into an output layer which is similar to the input layer, holding one item per slot ready to be taken by a neighbour. Of these layers, only the last one is saved. < 1662459217 157648 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So in the simple one input, one output case there can be 5 items in the building, 1 or 2 of which have been fully processed. (production only happens at the front of the batch queue.) < 1662459246 312830 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And this matches what I see in experiments. < 1662459670 781833 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN < 1662459688 635320 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662459708 753650 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf > 1662460419 575804 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:General disclaimer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102956&oldid=78393 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+122) 10 > 1662460535 48531 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:General disclaimer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102957&oldid=102956 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+10) 10 > 1662460546 904715 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:General disclaimer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102958&oldid=102957 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+0) 10 > 1662460558 991687 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:General disclaimer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102959&oldid=102958 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+1) 10 > 1662460876 927009 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102960&oldid=102955 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+53) 10/* the hold on to your stuff it's going to get more complcated stuff/multi operations */ < 1662461815 724851 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662461834 760988 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662462086 994629 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662462107 905357 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf > 1662462204 215022 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102961&oldid=102960 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+89) 10/* lua code you can use */ < 1662462808 226495 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1662462831 727054 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: ok. is every item in tunnels and storage tanks saved? < 1662462848 831121 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and what happens to the splitters, mergers, balancers? < 1662463364 81940 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1662463367 364182 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :splitters, mergers, and balancers are production units < 1662463387 638234 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see < 1662463425 941261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so... splitters hold 6 items internally, two of which are saved; balancers hold seven items, again 2 of which are saved; mergers hold 6 items, one of which is saved < 1662463486 633863 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have not dug deeply enough into storage, tunnels, and belts yet. Observationally they don't lose items. But I haven't checked corner cases... like what happens when a storage is full. < 1662463549 595749 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Btw I don't see how I can use the storage as a detector... if an item simply passes through, none of the outputs are triggered. < 1662463594 824350 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Of course the game is a moving target; this may have been different in the past. < 1662463631 233451 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, there was some trick to it. if you don't figure it out from my old screenshots, ping me in the evening and I'll look it up in my savefile. or give you my savefile if you prefer. < 1662463680 744504 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I can put a filter directly behind it and hope for the best < 1662463700 661784 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, I think it was something like that. < 1662463778 847334 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I'm not claiming that it can count a full throughput belt, it's after splitting the belt three ways < 1662463803 224105 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662463822 245150 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662463861 664315 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah that works. < 1662463879 914951 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662463933 145901 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: thanks: https://nitter.it/pic/orig/enc/bWVkaWEvRmJ5cFBYbVh3QUFjRW5GLmpwZw== < 1662463989 394112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The monitor still flickers at speedup 10, so it does seem to detect the items individually. (science ;) ) < 1662464129 269408 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662464159 780529 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The trash disposal is required to cope with changes in the item (when changing, items get lost)... oh and I think it'll be hard to make logic that copes with the full rate... my flip-flops need pulses of length 2 to work, so 60/20 = 3 ticks is rather tight. < 1662464266 709418 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, that's why I'm counting 1/12 of all the shapes produced, or maybe just 1/24 or 1/48 if I have dividers in there, I don't recall < 1662464305 533558 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you're already delivering your items to the hub on multiple lanes, so might as well use that to not count all items < 1662464351 154773 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, my v3 counted 1/32 of the items and that's basically good enough > 1662464393 151781 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Six instruction language :)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=102962 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+114) 10Created page with "Should there be are talk page?
--~~~~" < 1662464407 474941 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> 32/80 -- resulting granularity in seconds < 1662464409 739844 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : 0.4 > 1662464428 281016 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Xyzzy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=102963 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+40) 10Created page with "I haven't think of what to put here yet." < 1662464431 392039 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :err < 1662464434 771736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> 32/20 -- resulting granularity in seconds < 1662464436 570677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : 1.6 < 1662464456 644336 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :not great, but when times are between 1 to 2 minutes, not terrible either. > 1662464456 725796 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Xyzzy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=102964 5* 03Xyzzy 5* (+105) 10Created page with "You can now talk in here! --~~~~" < 1662464573 36421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: I wouldn't mind looking at your save file, I feel I've done enough exploration on my own < 1662464591 999646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I bet many things are quite different < 1662465094 494154 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm github seems to have issues right now? < 1662465108 390086 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(getting sporadic errors) < 1662465342 369354 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1662465409 209771 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662465415 810624 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662465420 220275 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662465435 784713 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662465687 347297 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662465707 743956 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662466165 286231 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1662467215 721521 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662467236 769674 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662467487 148032 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662467508 733962 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662467815 763514 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662467836 728416 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662468087 198411 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662468109 736065 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662468171 126428 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1662469636 840307 :immibis_!~hexchat@i689751E6.versanet.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1662470187 896340 :archenoth!~archenoth@2604:3d09:1785:d900:8176:7fb3:613b:300b JOIN #esolangs Archenoth :archenoth < 1662471054 64187 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1662471715 777242 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:d0c4:fb49:e9d6:7ff9 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662471735 778355 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662472286 980462 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662472305 803249 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662473215 857296 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662473235 740198 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662473353 346918 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Are you allowed to use the SI binary prefixes standalone, without a unit attached to them? If you have, say, 7 * 2**20 as a scalar quantity, could you say it's seven mebis in colloquial conversation? < 1662473487 63990 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662473506 800168 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662474418 193342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no < 1662474478 137493 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1662474483 890019 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs ::/ < 1662474515 573148 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: traditionally no, though some people suggest that we should use them that way, or else that we invent a unit of measure with value 1 specifically for this purpose. I'll try to find links later. < 1662474582 258470 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, norms can be changed < 1662474610 61861 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :That "no" came really from me imagining somebody saying that to me... I'd ask what they mean. < 1662474822 978584 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1662475006 421527 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2010-09-03.1791.html argues that we should use "giga" and "tera" to avoid the ambiguity with "billion" < 1662475152 772457 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :alternately we could introduce something like "unit" as a new unit of measure and "ε" as its abbreviation, value 1, and use "gigaunit" and "teraunit", abbreviated "Gε" and "Tε" < 1662475196 576361 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :we already have rad ;) < 1662475611 42897 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also someone suggested that we should introduce a new decimal unit *prefix* with value 1, so that you can emphasize the lack of a prefix. eg. you could say "four unitgrams" (abbreviated "4 εg") to make it clear that you're not talking about just four milligrams, nor about four kilograms. < 1662475615 846191 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662475637 818921 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662475655 829380 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, this doesn't necessarily mean that you'd talk about unitunits and εε, because presumably we'd try to find better \names for them first. < 1662475755 652961 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know why, but "4 εg" sounds like it _should_ be a really small quantity. < 1662475779 390171 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe just because the only other prefix with a greek letter abbreviation (µ) is a small one; plus epsilons are tiny. < 1662475887 32934 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662475908 718616 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662476145 938668 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? password < 1662476148 785088 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The password of the month is ridled woht tpyo.s < 1662476215 748627 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662476236 744705 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662476487 202247 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662476509 701302 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662477008 529164 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: yes, so you can find a better name and abbreviation first, but it's not clear what it should be. both prefix abbreviations and unit abbreviations are hard, because there are one and two letter unit abbreviations and you mustn't cause conflict between the combinations. or at least mustn't cause new conflicts. < 1662477038 1628 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and naming is hard, you can't just use "one" or "uno" or any variant of that, because you don't want to make "thirty-one" ambiguous in any language < 1662477254 898229 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1662477285 133983 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1662477321 973775 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also multiple people independently suggested that if "Z" means 10**21 and "Y" means 10**24 then we should extend this backwards through the alphabet like "X" means 10**27, "W" means 10**30, etc, and downwards "x" means 10**-27, "w" means 10**-30, so literally ALL the ASCII latin alphabet and all letters an integer number of indexes before it are < 1662477322 429629 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unit prefix abbreviations. < 1662477601 525389 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess we can extend that backwards backwards too, so since "y" is 10**-24 and "z" is 10**-21 then "{" would be 10**-18 (but we use "a" instead per convention), "|" would be 10**-15 (but we use "f" instead per convention), "}" would be 10**-12, "~" would be 10**-9, DEL would be 10**-6, but if you want to figure out what the right character is for < 1662477602 25390 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :10**-0 you'll have to decide what the One True Encoding is. < 1662477770 896278 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it could be High Octet Preset the iso-8859-1/UCS-16 control character, or "ü" per cp437, etc. You'd think that "ü" would be kind of appropriate, you'd call the prefix ünit, but whereever I read the proposal to have such a prefix pointed out that micro is often abbreviated "u" so we shouldn't use "u" as the abbreviation for unit as well. < 1662477830 105804 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or just let it roll around a 7-bit character set and use Start Of Heading the ASCII control character < 1662477926 707651 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://xkcd.com/2668/ lol < 1662479079 452219 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in < 1662479095 953610 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1662479137 612835 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1662479167 808262 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1662479756 214070 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`olist 1267 < 1662479757 589055 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :olist : shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1662479815 698017 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662479835 696624 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662480087 265332 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662480109 745973 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662480279 932507 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN < 1662480306 845059 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1662480715 730361 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662480736 717838 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662480986 944376 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662481007 760818 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662481315 784586 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662481335 803604 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662481586 932846 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662481588 555861 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1662481609 750893 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662482515 719232 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662482535 799407 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662482788 164801 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662482807 743147 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662484015 820273 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662484035 794994 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662484287 141464 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662484307 811581 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662484429 351647 :j-bot!~jbot@irc.supplies JOIN #esolangs * :jevalbot < 1662485515 804672 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662485536 725829 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662485654 576932 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-151.play-internet.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1662485787 136395 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662485806 717990 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662485961 844463 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662485991 811016 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN > 1662486117 868748 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=102965 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+7352) 10Add page on cell tail > 1662486200 2571 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102966&oldid=102876 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+15) 10Add Cell tail < 1662486470 384833 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: shapez.io save: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19ggjJXABtIYL939rPEMLwaaViKYb5UNM/view?usp=sharing < 1662486693 323758 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :got it. will have a look in a bit < 1662486790 248744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :mine is still https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/V4-final.bin < 1662486817 300964 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and lacks the standard factories > 1662487311 594959 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102967&oldid=102965 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+86) 10/* Concepts */ > 1662487508 554068 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102968&oldid=102967 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+95) 10/* Concepts */ < 1662487615 848189 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662487634 800924 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662487776 344646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: heh that's a lot of blueprint shapes :) < 1662487879 487405 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also your semi-harvester (my name for a device that takes ah XxXxYyZz shape and turns it into XxXxXxXx, discarding the rest) is better than mine, I didn't think of using a balancer in the middle of it. < 1662487926 276031 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds > 1662488135 89206 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102969&oldid=102968 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+30) 10/* Numbers */ > 1662488191 904776 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102970&oldid=102969 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+2) 10/* Ranges */ > 1662488292 728505 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102971&oldid=102970 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+0) 10/* Numbers */ < 1662488544 251880 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, the windmill maker from half windmills > 1662488568 992835 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102972&oldid=102971 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+2) 10/* Input Mode */ < 1662488588 255451 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: could you figure out the shape counters? > 1662488598 64038 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102973&oldid=102972 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+0) 10/* Output Mode */ > 1662488632 996700 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102974&oldid=102973 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+2) 10/* Debug Mode */ < 1662488867 522404 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it looks like I'm counting one belt to the hub, so a one third full belt > 1662488922 485697 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102975&oldid=102974 5* 03Mousetail 5* (+6) 10/* Combining Operators */ < 1662488982 288126 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it's just a storage with a filter after it, filter opens after the storage becomes nonempty so there's probably two or three ticks while the non-empty signal goes out < 1662489019 526993 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then there's a circuit that makes the pulse longer, not for the storage and filter itself, but for the counter logic > 1662489044 118310 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102976&oldid=102975 5* 03Olus2000 5* (+4) 10/* Primes */ joined code block > 1662489055 777399 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102977&oldid=102976 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+268) 10Fix markup and spelling < 1662489066 436070 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in > 1662489115 28665 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Celltail14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102978&oldid=102977 5* 03Olus2000 5* (+1) 10/* Hello World */ precise input definition < 1662489221 743981 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: actually, they're exactly the same size, that's even more amazing: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-semi-harvesters.png (mine, yours, and a hybrid design that has marginally smaller footprint but isn't attractive in practice because these things will be put side by side) < 1662489233 839023 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I saw the binary counter in action, let me check the detector < 1662489255 819602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did *not* try to follow the counter logic... < 1662489317 263576 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah I actually did see the detector momentarily and yeah, it uses a storage followed by a filter that's triggered by the storage; it should be good for half-rate belts like that < 1662489321 809108 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the counter is a binary counter, except that its bits are shifted in time. the nth level stores the nth bit of what the number of shapes was n shapes ago < 1662489349 250329 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I have no idea how the museum single-shape separator works < 1662489357 734007 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also found the 2:1 splitter < 1662489364 641573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or balancer < 1662489374 892345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm < 1662489388 793289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nah it's a splitter in the shapez terminology: one input, two outputs < 1662489419 67809 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I knew how it worked when I built it and I'm not touching it now, that's all I know < 1662489456 387613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: the 3-way splitter is basically common knowledge because the Factorio folks have been researching this sort of nonsense long ago (and are still finding new and better designs for Factorio) < 1662489507 79823 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the specific compact builds differ, but the principles are the same < 1662489581 860247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :No surprise there, but I didn't have that background :) < 1662489659 569534 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1662489673 674213 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: what I eventually came up with on my own was https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-3-way-splitter.png < 1662489697 818261 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yeah, that works < 1662489698 378811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which... really is equivalent < 1662489728 974078 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1662489741 104718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(since the balancers can be replaced by splitters and moved along the track) < 1662489749 893320 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(except for the first one) < 1662489779 95598 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it /feels/ different because I thought of it as a 4-way splitter with one feedback loop < 1662489796 328429 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I didn't spot the 2:1 splitter component. < 1662489825 506218 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1662489833 432879 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the item separater does look quite elaborate < 1662489955 420304 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :now that I look at it, it doesn't seem how it could handle the weird unlikely case (when it can't separate a shape by the time the level jumps) correctly, but maybe I'm just stupid < 1662489961 603228 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1662489969 691600 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/seem how/seem like/ < 1662489980 991961 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was certainly the intention, and some of the complexity is that < 1662490013 365089 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the other part of the complexity is I think that it can somehow test if two shapes got separated to its buffer and flush it and retry in that case, and I think that's also an unlikely case < 1662490187 779356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah I see why you have undefined values in there, you can use those to reset a memory cell < 1662490283 792240 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, I use the simple 1-transistor memory cells, where you just send anything other than empty on the input wire for two cycles to write the cell, and undefined when you don't want to change the value < 1662490381 864225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but only the stuff near the hub has memory cells, nothing in the freeplay factory does < 1662490405 584603 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the factory just does straightforward bounded time no-loops computation < 1662490426 871095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can mostly follow the item extractor... and as you mentioned before, a lot of the complication is from on keeping producing the previous shape if the extractor hasn't succeeded yet. < 1662490452 621901 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :where bounded time doesn't mean fast; it's not optimized < 1662490540 803887 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, but the very first filter, the only one that can even let shapes in from the main belts, it seems like the logic can only give that one the hub shape or undefined < 1662490561 665972 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so if the hub shape had changed, how would it ever let a shape in? < 1662490657 323860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it really looks like I just messed that case of the logic up, and haven't noticed because it never occurs < 1662490669 916880 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the garbage is released to the right < 1662490701 668795 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless the logic is such that it doesn't let the big storages flush into the hub until the museum copies are sent, and that's why the hub shape can't change? < 1662490715 450024 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the path is clear for the new shapes to get into the filter < 1662490731 234601 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but if that's the case then why is there a memory cell for what shape is sent to the factory? < 1662490746 610680 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh I see what you mean < 1662490765 101522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, it's probably broken for that case... which will never happen < 1662490808 7947 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :good to know < 1662490812 133702 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that transistor there should be using the shape line to the left < 1662490815 846805 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :as input < 1662490830 183169 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because that'll be the old shape in that impossible case < 1662490888 507116 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :let me verify by breaking things so that this case actually happens :P < 1662490947 985492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would help if the game had pause, change speed, single-step controls < 1662490959 766665 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :for debugging logic mechanisms like this < 1662491038 746030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh wait, it *does* prevent buffering, as you said < 1662491201 231583 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, do you mean it prevents *filling* the buffers, rather than preverts flushing the buffers? < 1662491220 450492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, looks like that < 1662491228 325778 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :As is, yes it does. But then what's the purpose of the separate shape line... < 1662491262 296615 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably an artifact I left in and didn't notice that it was stupid < 1662491455 929980 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well it would make sense if you wanted to keep producing the old shape when the level is solved... maybe that was the original plan < 1662491456 825364 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesn't ask the factory to stop production as soon as it starts to flush, which is something that could perhaps make sense, though it also has a drawback when the first flush fails < 1662491470 712189 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, that was probably the original plan < 1662491512 192386 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and if that does work then that's kind of still useful, because it would at least remember the shape in the logic wires until I can fix the museum mechanism < 1662491609 504223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, my design certainly isn't optimized, but at least it looks like it's reliable < 1662491613 946928 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is what I went for < 1662491916 231135 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :copying everything on the map costs less than 1_600_000 glue apparently (it increases by the 1.10th power of the number of buildings copied in a single paste), so yes, I have a bit too much glue < 1662492278 811367 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it doesn't matter unless I build more rocket+logo+bouquet factories, and that won't happen on this map < 1662492317 197496 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it'll break when the speedup is too small (the item detected before the filter has to reach the filter in... uh... 5 or 6 cycles?) < 1662492420 35961 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :this didn't exist when the speedup was too small < 1662492468 172263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also if the speedup is too small then the 12 lanes to the core aren't able to satisfy levels < 1662492590 36641 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had the museum since the first freeplay level, but it was manually controlled through the first few levels, and I think even then the speedup was high enough < 1662492604 721364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but other than that it should be robust. maybe a bit redundant... using the 0/1 outputs of those detectors serves no purpose, I think (you're already checking the shapes) < 1662492615 475704 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :since building enough of a factory to jump the first few freeplay levels took me a lot of time, and the upgrade shapes accumulated during that < 1662492620 352202 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you should have speedup 7 or 8 when you reach freeplay < 1662492636 589310 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is fast enough as far as I can make out < 1662492679 821280 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but for the first freeplay level I built a factory that at least tried to be configurable for many freeplay shapes, so it was a lot of time after that when I completed the first level < 1662492693 183291 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that the factory had all sorts of issues doesn't change that < 1662492720 656481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway. a bit crufty maybe, but it works. There's a really clever bit actually where it relies on threestate logic for those filters < 1662492785 454713 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehe, thanks\ < 1662492806 3095 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :have you looked at how the freeplay factory itself works? that one I do still understand < 1662492899 477254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, *that* is what the 0/1 outputs are used for... you wait for them to become 0 to stop draining. < 1662493017 114492 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the factory control logic also has a part that is only there to handle a rare case, but at least it's like 1 in 1000 freeplay level rare one, not a you'll never see one rare one < 1662493042 449075 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's also a pre-selection filter that's controlled by the logic here. So elaborate. < 1662493083 183937 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I could have left it out and manually intervene once every 1000 levels when it comes up, but by then I may have forgotten how the factory works and where I have to intervene < 1662493087 906460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so okay, when I said I understood that item separator, I was clearly lying :P < 1662493123 158110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's possible that the parts that you don't understand are just redundant < 1662493146 580173 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I never tried to build a minimal museum specimen separator, just a reliably working one < 1662493394 235476 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the first filter I definitely need, because the factory can emit incorrect shapes during warm-up, and I don't want those in the museum < 1662493448 175769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh I think what happens on the left... the shape is delayed until the flip-flop has actually reset < 1662493472 728351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you do that by checking the flip-flop output rather than just having a fixed delay by two ticks. < 1662493536 505613 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(why two? because in the flip-flop, the signal has to propagate through both the and AND the OR gates to prevent flickering) < 1662493609 396977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there may have been actual plans to delay the propagation for longer, but they're not realized here < 1662493636 121946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's possible that I don't *quite* trust the exact delays in logic, thinking that maybe the shapez.io engine tries to distributed evalulate the map and multiple large sections are evaluated kind of asynchroniously. this is silly, knowing how the implementation works, but still. < 1662493649 700465 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, wait < 1662493658 106683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it might still be draining and it's waiting for that as well < 1662493659 657449 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :never mind. < 1662493683 482224 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So... it does serve a purpose in those impossible cases :P < 1662493732 730660 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is it possible that the filter at the entry was a later addition? < 1662493758 977588 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because if it was, there'd be a significant time spent on draining. > 1662493811 779816 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=102979 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+59) 10Created page with " body { background-color: white; color: black; }" < 1662493862 155746 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know, I have a lot of older savefiles but don't want to dig through them < 1662494102 822056 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, I mostly get the counter too. Top half has the counter, bottom half has carries; values alternate between outer memory cells and inner memory cells; computation happens when moving from inner cells to outer cells < 1662494171 763822 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: correct > 1662494174 569130 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102980&oldid=102979 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+18279) 10 < 1662494281 807328 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's very likely much bigger than it needs to be, even with using logic only rather than splitters to divide < 1662494299 775223 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I mean bigger per bit, I don't mean that the higher order bits don't get any use > 1662494300 625509 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102981&oldid=102980 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+158) 10 < 1662494311 376845 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are two bits above what I need to count < 1662494319 707634 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or three < 1662494367 873017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it uses one-gate memory cells that update in two cycles with a conflict in the first cycle, rather than the traditional flipflops < 1662494373 970248 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can't do this in real electronics < 1662494466 9079 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the long horizontal blue wires are the clocks, two alternating ones < 1662494495 104622 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the middle one is active for like 5 or 6 cycles, the outer one in between > 1662494605 676281 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102982&oldid=102981 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (-5) 10 > 1662494727 71923 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102983&oldid=102982 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+71) 10 > 1662494781 791941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102984&oldid=102983 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+72) 10 > 1662494793 90941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102985&oldid=102984 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+0) 10 > 1662494804 645500 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102986&oldid=102985 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+3) 10 > 1662494812 542232 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102987&oldid=102986 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (-3) 10 > 1662494826 515636 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102988&oldid=102987 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+0) 10 < 1662494831 281744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I found one of the infamous symmetry detectors > 1662494870 655614 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102989&oldid=102988 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+94) 10 > 1662494908 882625 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102990&oldid=102989 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+0) 10 > 1662494937 882776 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102991&oldid=102990 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+87) 10 < 1662494948 954356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm amazed that you bothered with that... it seems to bothersome to get right > 1662494977 73445 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102992&oldid=102991 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+52) 10 > 1662495042 787804 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102993&oldid=102992 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+39) 10 < 1662495060 930573 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, it probably isn't worth just to save a few stackers < 1662495093 809619 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it would save much more if it weren't for that the stupid freeplay shape randomizer algorithm can remove a quarter that breaks the symmetry < 1662495101 321803 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so is the failed symmetry case the rare one? < 1662495106 125448 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no < 1662495112 2251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the failed symmetry case is pretty common < 1662495116 964734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :okay > 1662495121 734270 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nick-1666/vector.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102994&oldid=102993 5* 03Nick-1666 5* (+120) 10 < 1662495123 253326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the rare case is a subset of that, < 1662495179 457132 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I guess it's not actually a failed symmetry... it's a mirror symmetry with a hole in it) < 1662495209 486777 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :when the symmetry fails, and the shape before removal has diagonal symmetry, but the two other layers happen to have central symmetry and so I detect the symmetry of the whole shape incorrectly < 1662495246 725025 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's why I have to detect symmetry twice, once for how I assemble the entire shape, and once for how to make the layer that has the broken symmetry < 1662495267 967301 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah. < 1662495369 867188 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the failed symmetry is common because most shapes are missing a quarter, and that breaks the symmetry UNLESS the shape is central symmetric (1/3 of all shapes IIRC) or the shape is diagonal symmetric (1/3 chance) and the missing quarter is from the two quarters that are supposed to be identical (1/2 chance) < 1662495405 762849 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or unless there's an accidental symmetry on the layer with the missing quarter < 1662495411 613350 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no wait < 1662495418 423613 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that doesn't apply < 1662495424 434727 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :only the first two exceptions < 1662495433 235203 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the shapes that don't miss any quarters < 1662495439 33334 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's also funny that you decided to mix all colors in large quantities while I rely on a mixer that can produce a merry mix of colors up to, uh. 0.8 belts worth. < 1662495456 562728 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(total) < 1662495494 861124 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: older versions used to have fewer mixers, and some buffers for the pigment < 1662495526 282807 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I extended later, which is why the part of the factory around the mixers is so clamped that there's some belt weaving < 1662495542 466177 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also used to have fewer windmills and buffers for those < 1662495544 356617 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also have buffers but they may not actually be needed... I haven't tested that though; they're so cheap to put in. < 1662495551 554341 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I think fewer stars too < 1662495577 100920 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, the buffers are cheap < 1662495607 536915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The production *does* keep up with the factory on average, but I was worried about switchover starving for paint, which would destroy the delicate balance of the square feed that I now rely on) < 1662495667 912740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because switchover causes a surge in paint consumption due to draining the belts. < 1662495683 105159 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :plus because of how freeplay shapes are generated, you need twice as much white pigments as the six colors, and white is the most expensive to mix < 1662495696 857160 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :windmills are such a pain to gather < 1662495731 483187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, my calculation of consumption is based on having everything painted white. < 1662495753 36500 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes they are < 1662495756 906030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :At which point each slice factory will, in the long run, consume 0.5 belts worth of red, green, and blue. < 1662495780 409796 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Plus a bit for pigments lost in switchovers. < 1662495840 303239 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I produce as much pigment and shape as could sustain the four belts of any freeplay shape indefinitely, even the very unlikely all purple all windmill shape < 1662495917 736828 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the new map that I started, all I built from the freeplay factory so far is the shape producers: 16 belts of circles, 16 belts of squares, 16 belts of stars, 16 belts of windmill. I don't have pigment or any of the shape assembling parts yet. < 1662496276 445107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though before I continue to build the freeplay factory there, I'll have to build some more logo factory. < 1662496624 525451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, does it never put holes into the bottom layer? < 1662496785 389850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I dunno, I thought it would put holes in any of the four layers, but only one quarter hole in the whole shape < 1662496800 869195 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I might be misremembering < 1662496809 712388 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, no... there's at most one hole, so there are two adjacent layers without holes, and you seem to exploit that. < 1662496820 451216 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :exactly < 1662496862 462782 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662496892 656648 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the two layers without holes share a symmetry, so I paint and stack whole shapes for it, then cut the two-layer shapes to a half and two quarters, then join them < 1662496906 871268 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN < 1662496941 962671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :this way I have to do fewer joins, because I'm doing two joins on two layers at the same time, rather than two one-layer joins separately for each layer < 1662496951 379081 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also fewer cuts < 1662496994 637180 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the third layer I can't do this optimization, but I still use the symmetry < 1662497022 231519 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the layer with the whole I can't really optimize anything, because it may be made of a whole and three quarters of different color and shape a < 1662497030 402987 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/shape a/shape/ < 1662497073 260780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :luckily the circuit that detects the symmetry isn't too hard, because we have a gate that can compare any shape, even multi-layer shapes < 1662497160 36156 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so if the shape were symmetric, I could just cut it to four quarters, then compare which pairs of quarters are the same < 1662497171 262834 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wouldn't have to decompose the layers < 1662497188 215432 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but since the missing quarter breaks the symmetry, I do have to break the shape into layers in the logic too < 1662497201 121651 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1662497783 132808 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/whole/hole/ < 1662497842 298460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I think I have a high-level picture of it now and it's rather complicated. < 1662497859 470580 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662497874 304060 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662497899 955104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :On another note, you really love balancers. And things look very different when zoomed out because they become thick black blocks. < 1662498263 382346 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah < 1662498272 760523 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if we had priority balancers I wouldn't need so many < 1662498282 828051 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :output priority at least < 1662498291 937883 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean admittedly I don't need this many anyway < 1662498308 314422 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :note that I played shapez.io *before* I started playing factorio < 1662498315 902018 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and built almost all of that factory then < 1662498322 356907 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I didn't really know how belts should work < 1662498328 28118 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are lots of stupid things because of that < 1662498331 962520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but still, no priority balancers < 1662498362 13453 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless you want to put storages everywhere < 1662498409 257585 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually wish that there was a smaller storage unit. Capacity 100 or so. < 1662498459 257298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Those storages I have after the color mixers and before color selection? I had to wait for them to fill up. It took ages. < 1662498542 210061 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Though I was clever about it... I copied them relatively early, while I was still debugging the first factory. < 1662498569 261961 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But with a smaller storage, I wouldn't have had to worry about that. < 1662498764 703251 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you don't need the full capacity of the storage then why do you need to wait for it to fill up? do you have some complex logic that cares about it? < 1662498808 115000 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because the color mixer I have is highly unbalanced... it relies on getting stuck on most outputs. < 1662498850 308996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :jesus < 1662498858 693297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you managed to overcomplicate a *color mixer*? < 1662498907 293775 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-combined-mixer.png < 1662498926 946461 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it mixes all colors from three primary color inputs < 1662498942 111260 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah I see < 1662498963 424438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you share the pigment mines between mixed and unmixed < 1662498967 132503 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and when it's saturated like that, taking out one white will trickle up and consume one of each primary < 1662498988 654042 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but when demand exceeds supply, the right stages will be starved. < 1662498989 111063 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't do that because pigment mines are cheap < 1662499021 872132 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually, no. the green line is the one that gets starved the most < 1662499037 270235 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because there's 8 splitters to traverse < 1662499047 145095 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so only one in 256 greens makes it through < 1662499083 366697 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you didn't want to just add a few more miners and belts to fix this? < 1662499105 723148 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Pigment mines are cheap but they still add heavily to the overall footprint. I also didn't route resources very systematically so it would increase my effort considerably. < 1662499125 63488 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's nothing to fix once it's filled up. < 1662499178 22340 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just decided to go heavy in all the constant production, since they can be far from the hub and their compactness doesn't matter, except possibly to conserve out of universe computation power and thus give faster fps, but I didn't care too much about that < 1662499185 127718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And I thought of this for my V3 factory and I liked it. < 1662499210 362016 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unfortunately, long belts affect time taken per tick < 1662499228 670788 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Somehow. I'm not quite sure why. < 1662499254 485839 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, sadly shapez.io is implemented so slow that you actually have to care about computation power, it's just that that's not the game I want to play when I'm playing a game < 1662499263 733035 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I still haven't looked in full detail at the belt path machinery) < 1662499276 309897 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm fine with optimizing for fast computation for work, but not when I'm playing a game < 1662499314 383894 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I /think/ I've seen that it's actually shifting arrays to take items off a belt path? < 1662499345 117850 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shifting perl arrays (fast for large arrays) or shifting python arrays (slow for large arrays)? < 1662499345 246679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which is an unfortunate O(n) operation for something that should really be constant time. < 1662499355 202681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :javascript arrays < 1662499359 953413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no clue about those < 1662499373 448297 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but maybe it slices long belts to multiple shorter belts internally because of this? < 1662499374 142847 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd assume O(n). Maybe I'm wrong. < 1662499462 881240 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I've come to not treat the constant production as cheap for that 4th version. < 1662499522 294326 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :makes sense < 1662499601 579367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll dig deeper into the belt path logic... I've seen hints of an optimization for densely packed items on a belt. < 1662499613 651588 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, do you plan to alternatingly delete the whole freeplay factory and build the upgrade shape factory, and delete the upgrade shape factory and build the freeplay factory, switching every few hundred levels, to save cpu time on constant production? :-P < 1662499617 131618 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which could make quite the difference. < 1662499653 463309 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: No. Also, idle buildings take computing resources too. < 1662499703 27324 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh you said "delete" < 1662499703 252266 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, that's why you'd have to delete them rather than just press some buttons to close the belts < 1662499711 317030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sorry, it's late < 1662499735 309620 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't care as long as the tick time stays below 16ms. < 1662499759 280371 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesn't shapez.io let you raise the fps over 60? < 1662499759 408630 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's what killed my very first design with 8 factories... tick time was about 33ms for those :/ < 1662499767 397170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I've mentioned that before. < 1662499771 259853 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"killed" < 1662499782 372761 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, I deleted half of the factories to make it faster < 1662499838 652465 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So yeah, it wasn't quite dead. But the result looked silly because the nice 4-way symmetry I wanted was lost and left a lot of empty space > 1662499890 901469 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PDAsephone14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102995&oldid=101504 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+734) 10Added Turing-completeness proof > 1662499942 560157 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PDAsephone14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102996&oldid=102995 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+0) 10Fixed category < 1662499958 956809 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :version 2 *actually* died because I lost it in a crash. version 3 was the rebuild of version 2 (with very minor changes) it ended up with a tick time of 15ms or so. version 4 has a tick time of under 10ms, but it's not producing the constant shapes which probably add another 3-4ms? I don't really know. I could check how much faster ticks become in v3 if I delete those parts < 1662499999 249105 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :My story so far. Maybe I should write memoirs about this :P > 1662500036 785464 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PDAsephone14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102997&oldid=102996 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+2) 10Fixed brainfuck wording < 1662500075 123035 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see < 1662500086 673874 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you should definitely make periodic saves of it so you don't lost it in a crash again > 1662500116 275955 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PDAsephone14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102998&oldid=102997 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+1) 10added necessary quote to > in proof < 1662500286 871580 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1662500489 422907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Yeah I've been doing that, with a couple of separate backups too. < 1662500504 963193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the basic idea of disabling autosaves is good though > 1662500546 878114 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Joaozin003 5* 10New user account < 1662500613 472845 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(One thing you can do with autosaves disabled is load a save file, completely mess it up, and then kill the shapez process so that it won't save. Oh and don't go to the settings menu either.) > 1662500636 728261 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=102999&oldid=102942 5* 03Joaozin003 5* (+181) 10 > 1662500653 84961 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Joaozin00314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103000 5* 03Joaozin003 5* (+23) 10Created page with "woohoo user pages exist" > 1662500666 315000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Joaozin00314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103001 5* 03Joaozin003 5* (+0) 10Created blank page < 1662500857 896438 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, so long term prediction. the third season of Hamster and Gretel will reveal that Bailey knew Gretel's secret identity from the start, but pretends that she doesn't, perhaps because she's genre savvy and thinks that knowing the secret identity would inevitably get her entangled in some villain plots and she wants to avoid that. < 1662500891 929373 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(she might also like to tease Gretel) > 1662501078 24842 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Taglate14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103002&oldid=102801 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+18) 10Corrected badly worded t step < 1662501301 843246 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1662501731 549628 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Looks like 1.5 or 2ms per tick for constant production (2x rocket, 4x flower, 2x logo; I didn't produce blueprints in the end I had millions and if actually required, the factory could produce them for me) < 1662501788 17830 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :For reference... I spent less than 600k blueprints on the V4 design. < 1662501861 377434 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, you don't need to produce much blueprint shapes, and you can just produce them with your freeplay factory when you need more < 1662501865 297671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well no < 1662501870 285064 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :not with your freeplay factory < 1662501878 403908 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you can build a factory for it easily if you need more < 1662501921 21886 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you can reuse the white circle makers from the logo and rocket factories < 1662501955 502205 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have not toyed with the tick rate settings in shapez.io < 1662501975 292521 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :just make sure you build it *before* you get so close to running out of glue that you are limited in how much you can paste during building the glue factory < 1662501983 363262 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: my freeplay factory can make blueprint shapes < 1662501992 505082 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, but not with high throughput, right? < 1662502005 439673 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, it'll only saturate 4 belts < 1662502011 924387 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, 4 belt is enough < 1662502029 912443 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought you had even fewer color mixing production than that < 1662502034 86344 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :since there are four factories. < 1662502052 703422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The color production thing is per slice... so that thing exists 16 times. < 1662502069 973606 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah ok < 1662502114 490630 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that makes much more sense < 1662502131 576986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-v4-footprint.png ... you can see the color mixing part on top, recognizable by the green storage boxes < 1662502173 912801 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :below that are color selection, shape selection (shifted a bit to the left), then painting, then 4 levels of stacking. < 1662502187 283453 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and after that there's the hub < 1662502291 881923 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I recommend the save file (the link, once more: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/V4-final.bin ) to actually see those parts in action. < 1662502300 899946 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I'll have to look at that < 1662502311 836284 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, you name a file "final"? isn't that one of the big naming sins? < 1662502321 484804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably < 1662502325 396251 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1662502326 32945 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've already updated it once :P < 1662502371 13480 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it should load zoomed in on a button which needs to be pushed to set things in motion < 1662502424 300739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Heh, which is actually not in the screenshot, because I added it later. < 1662502457 256601 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662502533 966233 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm usually bad at following good practice in naming, I name stuff "old" and use single-letter names and all that, but "final" is too much even for me, I never use it in that sense < 1662502576 914228 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you may be overestimating the power of names < 1662502590 458110 :tech_exorcist_!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting < 1662502636 817905 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :why are you sending two belts of stars into the hub? is that just to test the mechanism? < 1662502643 176797 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes < 1662502647 790367 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :pseudo-production < 1662502660 762565 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also checking that the routing from outside actually works < 1662502679 67462 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because it's not as direct as you might expect < 1662502704 446154 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :this definitely looks much more compact than my four-belt freeplay factory < 1662502922 800122 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah... design criteria were basically: minimize slice factory *width* (it's 24), since there'll be 4 side by side; within that constraint, try to reduce length while having all the required functionality to actually do the required work. And once I had the factory I measured it carefully and placed it as closely as possible to the hub. < 1662502952 763561 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see you have the four levels of stackers completely separated from each other, rather than partly combined to a compact array, despite that there's no drain to trash between them < 1662502984 903280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, yes, because there is no trash < 1662503008 714512 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :couldn't you combine the last two or middle two levels to make the length shorter? < 1662503016 920107 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :since you have more width to work there < 1662503075 897181 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you should probably show this to the other shapez.io folks, they like optimized factories < 1662503105 72487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :even ones that aren't the single most optimized (that's likely z-man's factory) < 1662503119 923777 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure how to combine the stages at all. < 1662503154 675662 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, doing this https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-balanced-stacker.html with more than two inputs seems tricky. < 1662503168 21923 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so will this keep working perfectly if you take upgrades to slightly different speeds? not, like, crazy different where painters are half as fast as belts or anything, just miclick on an upgrade or so < 1662503208 557671 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, you say you couldn't preserve the perfect combing? ok < 1662503210 732485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm. Upgrade the belts last and it should keep working < 1662503295 125612 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok. in my game I usually upgrade the belts first, then painting, then stacking, then extractors. < 1662503302 785522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I could, however, move the second and third merging stages inward and probably get things another 4 or 5 squares closer to the hub. < 1662503350 86080 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: that would make the belts longer so it wouldn't help, right? < 1662503365 850304 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There is that too, yeah < 1662503412 773255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I could avoid the left/right wiggles in the last three merging stages. < 1662503483 367112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But the critical paths are those that pass to the opposite side, and those already don't go back and forth more than necessary. < 1662503491 572100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So... I think there's *very* little to gain. < 1662503545 363832 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I /could/, with some effort, use knight jumps for some of the latency-reduction storage units. < 1662503569 999542 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would have the same benefit as moving things closer to the hub. < 1662503589 763225 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I'd probably have to relocate the control logic and I kind of like having that next to the hub. < 1662503614 259712 :immibis_!~hexchat@i689751E6.versanet.de JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1662503737 262468 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean I just wanted to understand why you set it up this way, and you answered that < 1662503807 259299 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh but I realized some angles that I hadn't considered before. < 1662503882 534615 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Note that there's actually enough upgrade shapes in that save to reach level 1000. So you /can/ experiment with higher speedups. I haven't, I have only really tested this at 8x and 10x speeds. < 1662504006 725143 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, you saved with a gigaunit upgrade shapes < 1662504016 133497 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, ten gigaunits < 1662504035 157305 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually added up all the upgrade costs. < 1662504040 348530 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, my code did. < 1662504551 918021 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1662504570 281987 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1662504686 71751 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: One funny detail is that the selection stage also has binary trees for its feeds. This is actually important, because immediately after switching, there are often empty belts beyond the feed, so if you'd do the obvious sequential thing, in the worst case, the rightmost belt (since I feed from the left) would only receive items at a 1/8 rate. < 1662504727 714794 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And that would result in a significant ramp-up time. < 1662504774 890258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(because to reach the required 1/4 rate, the other 3 belts would have to be filled to the rim) < 1662505192 574821 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, the first two. < 1662506433 585357 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662506466 282621 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse > 1662506470 252489 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XERO14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103003 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+3219) 10Created page with "XERO (the name being the amount of use you'll get out of this language before giving up) is an esolang by [[User:BoundedBeans]] which aims to be as annoying as possible, achie..." > 1662506523 774908 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XERO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103004&oldid=103003 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+61) 10Remembered to add tritwise command character > 1662506569 564480 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XERO14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103005&oldid=103004 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+0) 10Fixed category > 1662506744 422609 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103006&oldid=102966 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+11) 10added XERO > 1662506759 875178 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:BoundedBeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103007&oldid=102857 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+10) 10 < 1662506844 261916 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1662506859 225847 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse