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11:10:54 <esolangs> [[Colang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103008 * Rdococ * (+4067) Created page with "'''Colang''' is a minimalistic, purely object-oriented, impurely functional programming language by [[User:Rdococ]].  == Introduction ==  Every value is an object. An object c..."
11:11:29 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103009&oldid=96075 * Rdococ * (+68) Add Colang
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12:22:17 <fizzie> The brief period of esolangs.org popularity in Google Search is over. :/ https://zem.fi/tmp/esoclick2.png
12:22:52 <fizzie> Well, "popularity". Maybe 50 clicks a day doesn't quite count yet.
12:23:12 <int-e> `? password
12:23:15 <HackEso> The password of the month is ridled woht tpyo.s
12:23:29 <int-e> still old
12:24:36 <fizzie> https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=%2Fm%2F0d_v0 <- South Africa is the esolang capital of the world, according to Google Trends
12:27:09 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is knock-knock-knocking on heaven's door.
12:27:13 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is knock-knock-knocking on heaven's door.
12:27:50 <int-e> maybe the next one will be a Rick-roll :P
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12:44:31 <esolangs> [[Addbig]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103010 * Joaozin003 * (+1151) Created page with "Addbig is a [[OISC]] created by [[User:Joaozin003]] which the '''only''' instruction is "Add A and B, store the result in A and branch to C if the result is bigger than zero."..."
12:44:47 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103011&oldid=103010 * Joaozin003 * (+3) 
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12:48:03 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103012&oldid=103011 * Joaozin003 * (-2) 
12:48:10 <wib_jonas> do we have a command somewhere in bin that learns the password iff it hasn't been changed this month yet?
12:48:37 <wib_jonas> so as to avoid a race condition where two users conclude that the password is old and both try to change it
12:48:57 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103013&oldid=103006 * Joaozin003 * (+13) /* A */
12:50:43 <int-e> wib_jonas: no. anarchy rules!
12:51:48 <wib_jonas> ``` hg log --removed -T '{date(date,"%Y-%m")}' -l 1 "$HACKENV/wisdom/password"
12:51:51 <HackEso> 2022-09
12:52:00 <wib_jonas> ``` date +"%Y-%m"
12:52:02 <HackEso> 2022-09
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13:02:11 <wib_jonas> ``` hg log --removed -T '1\n' -d "$(date '+>%Y-%m-01')" "$HACKENV/wisdom/password" | grep -q '' # this command exits successfully iff the password has been changed this month and so shouldn't be changed further
13:02:13 <HackEso> No output.
13:04:24 <wib_jonas> it probably uses UTC, but I'm not certain, and in any case I don't really know what timezone or time of the day the password rollover is anyway
13:04:47 <wib_jonas> you can just adjust the cutoff time by changing that date command anyway
13:05:27 <int-e> "we"'ve agreed on UTC but I don't know how big that set really is :P
13:06:22 <wib_jonas> int-e: UTC midnight? if so then this command probably works as long as hg log and date believes that the timezone is UTC
13:06:34 <wib_jonas> ``` date +'%Z %z'
13:06:35 <HackEso> UTC +0000
13:07:12 <wib_jonas> but I might just try to make it explicitly UTC in the command
13:09:03 <fizzie> `env
13:09:05 <HackEso> PATH=/hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ TERM=linux \ HOME=/tmp \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ IRC_INSTANCE=HackEso-libera \ IRC_NETWORK=Libera.Chat \ IRC_NICK=fizzie \ IRC_IDENT=irc \ IRC_HOST=selene.zem.fi \ IRC_COMMAND=PRIVMSG \ IRC_TARGET=#esolangs \ IRC_MESSAGE=`env \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8
13:09:30 <fizzie> Yeah, we had LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 for historical reasons but not the corresponding timezone.
13:09:57 <wib_jonas> ``` hg log --removed -T '1\n' -d "$(date -u '+>%Y-%m-01 00:00 UTC')" "$HACKENV/wisdom/password" | grep -q '' # exits successfully iff password has been changed this month
13:10:00 <HackEso> No output.
13:10:52 <wib_jonas> fizzie: right, but I think when $ENV{TZ} is not set, there's some default that libc falls off to, plus programs might use date operations from somewhere other than libc, pretty likely in the case of hg since it has a date parser
13:11:09 <wib_jonas> but that command above is explicitly UTC so it should work either way
13:12:26 <wib_jonas> I don't know if that default comes from /etc/timezone, or the kernel's (obsolete) idea of the current timezone offset, or somewhere else, and don't want to look up since, again, programs can use a different method
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13:14:50 <wib_jonas> ``` hg log -l 5 -T '{date("now","%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S %Z %z")}\n' # what's the current time and timezone, hg
13:14:52 <HackEso> 2022-09-07 13:14:51  +0000 \ 2022-09-07 13:14:51  +0000 \ 2022-09-07 13:14:51  +0000 \ 2022-09-07 13:14:51  +0000 \ 2022-09-07 13:14:51  +0000
13:15:06 <wib_jonas> no timezone apparently, whereas date believes it's UTC
13:15:18 <int-e> ``` ls -la /etc/localtime
13:15:20 <HackEso> ls: cannot access '/etc/localtime': No such file or directory
13:15:41 <int-e> (that's where my `date` gets its timezone from)
13:16:08 <int-e> ``` strace --help
13:16:10 <HackEso> strace: invalid option -- '-' \ Try 'strace -h' for more information.
13:16:29 <int-e> ``` strace -eopenat time 2>&1 | paste
13:16:31 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.19152
13:16:33 <int-e> err
13:16:39 <int-e> ``` strace -eopenat date 2>&1 | paste
13:16:40 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.32677
13:16:58 <int-e> I guess the fallback is just UTC then?
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13:18:30 <fizzie> `ls /etc
13:18:32 <HackEso> alternatives
13:18:34 <fizzie> Not much in there.
13:24:55 <wib_jonas> dunno. for all I know the fallback might be US east coast for ancient unix compatibility reasons, or set by a boot option whose default is stored in the first sector of the kernel next to the default boot device, or something
13:26:10 <wib_jonas> https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/TZ-Variable.html says "You should not normally need to set TZ. If the system is configured properly, the default time zone will be correct." which sounds like a very obsolete view of how computers work
13:27:29 <wib_jonas> but it also says "the system administrator [...] sets /etc/localtime to point to the data file [among the set of timezone info files] for the local time zone."
13:27:43 <wib_jonas> so you might be right about /etc/localtime at least for the case of libc and /bin/date
13:28:43 <wib_jonas> https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Running-make-install.html is apparently the authoritive doc about this
13:32:47 <wib_jonas> the docs for hg says that it assumes the local timezone if the timespec doesn't mention a timezone
13:33:10 <wib_jonas> but I don't know how it gets that local timezone and don't want to look it up
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14:13:11 <esolangs> [[Alphalang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103014&oldid=100886 * Joaozin003 * (-1) typo correction hahaha
14:17:46 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; target=/hackenv/wisdom/password; hg log --remove -T "{rev}\n" -l 16 "$target" | (while read rev; do hg cat -r "$rev" "$target"; done); echo "done." # so this works,
14:18:05 <HackEso> The password of the month is knock-knock-knocking on heaven's door. \ The password of the month is ridled woht tpyo.s \ The password of the month is redundant but not distributed. \ The password of the month is lawful neutral. \ The password of the month is not a password, but a special phrase-guessing operation. \ The password of the month is marching on. \ The password of the month is decided with a non-terminating computation. \ The password of the mont
14:18:21 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; target=/hackenv/wisdom/password; hg log --remove -T "{rev}\n" "$target" | (while read rev; do hg cat -r "$rev" "$target"; done); echo "done." # but this prints nothing. why? even if it times out, it has newlines in the output so rnoodl should flush it, right?
14:18:57 <HackEso> No output.
14:19:50 <wib_jonas> `run set -e; target=/hackenv/wisdom/password; hg log --remove -T "{rev}\n" "$target" | (while read rev; do hg cat -r "$rev" "$target"; done); echo "did not time out."
14:20:20 <HackEso> The password of the month is knock-knock-knocking on heaven's door. \ The password of the month is ridled woht tpyo.s \ The password of the month is redundant but not distributed. \ The password of the month is lawful neutral. \ The password of the month is not a password, but a special phrase-guessing operation. \ The password of the month is marching on. \ The password of the month is decided with a non-terminating computation. \ The password of the mont
14:20:33 <wib_jonas> is this a bug in rnoodl?
14:22:55 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; target=/hackenv/wisdom/password; hg log --remove -T "{rev}\n" "$target" | (while read rev; do hg cat -r "$rev" "$target" >&2; done); echo "did not time out."
14:23:25 <HackEso> The password of the month is knock-knock-knocking on heaven's door. \ The password of the month is ridled woht tpyo.s \ The password of the month is redundant but not distributed. \ The password of the month is lawful neutral. \ The password of the month is not a password, but a special phrase-guessing operation. \ The password of the month is marching on. \ The password of the month is decided with a non-terminating computation. \ The password of the mont
14:23:30 <wib_jonas> this does flush, the >&2 bypasses the rnooodl pipe. so this is definitely a bug in rnooodl. I should have reimplemented that stupid script five years ago.
14:35:36 <fizzie> Isn't there also the difference that the stderr stdio stream is always unbuffered, while the stdout is block-buffered when not a terminal? 
14:37:37 <fizzie> (Though I feel like it might be time to give up on rnooodl anyway.)
14:47:43 <wib_jonas> fizzie: irrelevant, hg isn't a built-in command, so the hg cat process just has to flush when it exits
14:47:47 <wib_jonas> ``` type hg
14:47:48 <HackEso> hg is /usr/bin/hg
14:50:52 <wib_jonas> and I would be happy if you got rid of rnooodl, but feel like I specifically don't have the authority to do that, so the best I could do is reimplement it, possibly in a subtly flawed way where it doesn't insert oooos when I'm running the command
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15:23:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:ALWCIDFEC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103015 * Huh * (+244) Created page with "== Computational class ==  How is this Turing Complete? How would it compute something like the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look-and-say_sequence Look-and-say sequence]? ~~~~"
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15:42:27 <wib_jonas> `run hg cat -r 12318 /hackenv/wisdom/password # I was wondering what the right syntax for the command should be, in particular if it should add a "The password of the month is " prefix and a "." suffix.
15:42:34 <HackEso> The password of the month was fought for, and stomped on, but it remains unreconciled with
15:43:00 <wib_jonas> but that answers that, no prefix, you'll have to type the full wisdom body.
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17:56:25 <esolangs> [[OISC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103016&oldid=102089 * Joaozin003 * (+53) /* List of OISCs */
17:57:06 <esolangs> [[OISC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103017&oldid=103016 * Joaozin003 * (+29) /* List of OISCs */
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19:02:55 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103018&oldid=103012 * Joaozin003 * (+224) /* Examples */
19:03:33 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103019&oldid=103018 * Joaozin003 * (+5) /* Examples */
19:11:30 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103020&oldid=103019 * Joaozin003 * (+8) /* Negation */
19:13:37 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103021&oldid=103020 * Joaozin003 * (+84) 
19:13:53 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103022&oldid=103021 * Joaozin003 * (+14) 
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22:17:45 <b_jonas> oh! after multiple years of hiatus, there are three new xkcd whatif articles right on the homepage https://what-if.xkcd.com/archive/ (not in the books) in 2022
22:18:18 <b_jonas> one from just a day or two ago
22:18:27 <b_jonas> `xkcdwhatiflist
22:18:29 <HackEso> xkcdwhatiflist: oerjan b_jonas Taneb
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22:22:31 <fizzie> Those showed up in my feed reader in a timely manner, but I wasn't aware we had a list for it.
22:22:55 <fizzie> Kind of wondering if it's mostly marketing for the second book.
22:24:56 <b_jonas> likely, since the current strip is also a marketing for it
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