< 1662859166 884737 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662859186 754636 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662859438 37598 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662859457 875789 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662861392 527464 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-52.play-internet.pl QUIT :
> 1662868439 242747 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Python is Magic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103156&oldid=96872 5* 03OllyTheFoldy 5* (-5044) 10added some better methods of getting constants
> 1662869121 355578 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Xemt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103157&oldid=101364 5* 03Xemt 5* (+447) 10
> 1662869161 69274 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Xemt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103158&oldid=103157 5* 03Xemt 5* (+1) 10
> 1662869365 584916 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Xemt14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103159 5* 03Xemt 5* (+29) 10Created page with " Xemts Talk Page
"
< 1662871435 932944 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
> 1662873259 548592 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Xemt14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103160&oldid=103158 5* 03Xemt 5* (+166) 10
< 1662875828 561348 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662876421 677750 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662876441 723303 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662876693 487812 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662876713 653106 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662877083 253234 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662877730 73968 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662878221 634854 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662878241 613127 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662878493 121279 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662878513 600047 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662878712 671361 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662879842 232184 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1662879860 280705 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1662883003 661830 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1662883907 670839 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07It Is Not What It Is14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103161&oldid=103108 5* 03Leomok2009 5* (+0) 10Fixed errors
> 1662883984 448915 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07It Is Not What It Is14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103162&oldid=103161 5* 03Leomok2009 5* (+0) 10
> 1662884087 449018 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07It Is Not What It Is14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103163&oldid=103162 5* 03Leomok2009 5* (+0) 10
> 1662884159 119507 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07It Is Not What It Is14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103164&oldid=103163 5* 03Leomok2009 5* (-2) 10
< 1662885437 30782 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm, I have a syntax idea (an old one that's been idly circulating my mind, thought I might implement it at last), but I don't really have a fun language to go with it... should I just throw it at the pile of brainfucks?
< 1662885543 555265 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's not a good idea anyway, just silly and a bit offensive)
< 1662886975 213665 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662888721 724540 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662888793 791722 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662888820 555834 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1662888993 106677 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662889013 565835 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662889619 635940 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-52.play-internet.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull
< 1662890509 170159 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
< 1662890525 572999 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :olsner: don't throw it on the pile of brainfucks. instead do at least one of the following: (1) sit on it until you feel like creating a language, (2) tell it in chat, or (3) throw it on the other big pile https://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas
< 1662890660 228125 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1662890692 558478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :olsner: I've had an idea for the esoteric syntax thing of making a syntax that is an intrinsically ambiguous context-free language (i.e. can be parsed by a non-deterministic pushdown automaton but not by a deterministic one) in 2014, by taking the union of two syntaxes, one where you have to balance one kind of parenthesis and one where you have to match the other;
< 1662890739 168136 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but didn't know how to use it and certainly didn't want to make a brainfuck-alike or underload-alike, until 2017 or 2018 when I realized that this would be the perfect syntax for Consumer Society and its sibling language,
< 1662890749 572428 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm, and push-down automata aren't determinizable like normal finite ones are?
< 1662890777 34909 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is why in Consumer Society one kind of parenthesis has to be balanced, while in its sibling language another kind has to be balanced.
< 1662890875 826506 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :olsner: that's correct. you have to use your one stack to count how many parenthesis you've seen, pushing when you see an open and popping when you see a closer parent, but you might not know in advance which kind of parenthesis you should pay attention to. you find out when you see that the kind of parenthesis that you've been tracking mismatches, but by then it's too late.
< 1662891028 951885 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1662891045 443449 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :when I write my interpreter, it will just have to buffer all the input until either it can determine which language it is or the input ends. in typical non-obfuscated programs you'll just put a disambiguating thing near the start of the program so the interpreter can tell quick and doesn't have to buffer much, but for arbitrary programs the interpreter may have to buffer the whole thing
< 1662891120 287264 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, I think I'll sit on that idea for a while longer
< 1662891176 114293 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :luckily Consumer Society will probably be the more commonly used language in practice, and typical Consumer Society programs written in a natural style will usually have a short enough prefix that's invalid in the sister language (perhaps after a long comment block at the start)
< 1662891232 131617 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think naturally written programs in the sister language would be much worse in this sense unless you deliberately insert a disambiguation near the start
< 1662891243 400048 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are very simple disambiguations though
< 1662891281 691439 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course if you want to be fancy, you'd write a program that is ambiguous to the end for both the interpreter and for human readers with misleading comments
< 1662891283 363483 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :to be clear, the other kind of parenthesis, the one that doesn't have to be balanced, are an important part of the syntax of either language
< 1662891344 34069 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1662891372 225985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :olsner: I don't know if I could write such a thing. I don't know how I'd make it look ambiguous rather than just completely unreadable
< 1662891394 447106 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it might be possible. there's a deliberately misleading IOCCC entry after all.\
< 1662891437 507704 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1662894908 787876 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662895140 968091 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662895321 627938 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662895340 607790 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662895593 8514 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662895613 639357 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662896176 506413 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
< 1662896293 188757 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1662897557 233045 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1662897579 291443 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1662897925 678507 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1662897993 672725 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662898012 561522 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662898206 269978 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1662898293 162723 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662898314 594881 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662898876 31889 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1662899752 369203 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1662899889 556287 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
< 1662900158 990176 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1662900854 532128 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1662901074 572247 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1662901321 638178 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662901341 690160 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662901593 368247 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662901614 590104 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662902819 31533 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662902841 645185 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662903092 941726 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662903114 641949 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662904211 845247 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662904690 617156 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1662905507 268475 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1662906818 14749 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07V^v14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103165&oldid=103068 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+11) 10Amended a few orthographic mistakes.
< 1662907230 666092 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662907284 362313 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662907432 449347 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662908521 715650 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662908541 601262 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662908792 981304 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662908814 592851 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662909990 242604 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662910227 985712 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662910962 665975 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662911182 153594 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662915721 788192 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662915743 621898 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662915992 974453 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662916012 665555 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662916428 607990 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662918234 190215 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1662918252 228796 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse
< 1662918900 730427 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662921865 35133 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 JOIN #esolangs * :Everything
< 1662921899 574420 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1662921917 347637 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1662922531 312871 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662922754 735947 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662922775 746047 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1662922794 703243 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662923102 788588 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662923122 722370 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662923373 274206 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662923393 666743 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662923702 770157 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662923724 728969 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662923889 307222 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1662923974 164751 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662923993 638929 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf
< 1662924262 14380 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662924974 339951 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic
< 1662925257 394404 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: can you explain delta-swaps to me?
< 1662925258 169657 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: that makes sence, i just assumed " liquor" would fnord work? i'm listening to a music piece by " crazy penis". it's striking because it's counterintuitive
< 1662925291 104069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm dismayed that "sence" is frequent enough to not be "f****".
< 1662925328 154919 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`"
< 1662925331 369860 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :1/1:1126) Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom ass is an urban legend \ 1266) let's force all arabs to adopt more reasonable orthography quintopia: No that is not the correct solution zzo38: oh. okay. thanks.
< 1662925484 85163 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662925729 656694 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662925782 274408 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662928196 849356 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662928246 351966 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: how much do you weigh?
< 1662928246 709913 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :imode: are you all so enthusiastic about answering that???
< 1662928255 847321 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: yes, I am. how big are you.
< 1662928256 58459 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :imode: 80 characters they are considered pointers.
< 1662928276 843118 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1662928278 675557 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: 640 bytes is enough for you, then?
< 1662928279 413619 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :imode: rulers of nations back then were pretty horrible. granted, that's usually quite simple. the only advantage today. i went to a private school
< 1662928295 78183 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: are you secretly bill gates?
< 1662928295 635027 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :imode: how far is montreal?). since this is a fnord :) just don't like the font of emacs i read of??? is it 2d?
< 1662928304 878403 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: enjoy your fnords.
< 1662928526 922885 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Haha. Have you ever added 'volatile' to C code to make code *faster*?
< 1662928581 502728 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :oddly enough, no.
< 1662928672 383548 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :At the university, the CS students used to have all these "excursions" to companies and such, and there was an unwritten tradition to, after the host had done whatever presentation they had about the company and asked for questions, to ask "how much does this building weigh?"
< 1662928685 784060 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :A well-enough known tradition that sometimes the host had an answer prepared.
< 1662928774 733035 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :And now that I went and looked for that on the web, on the first page of results is when I told this same story about a decade ago, which is a little bit sad.
< 1662928798 839351 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sadly it's not reliable enough anyway. I'm cheating differently now.
< 1662928840 58839 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2012-11-04.html#lYp
< 1662928864 226798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, the thing is... I have code with /many/ 64 bit constands (from DES S-boxes, because somehow I thought implementing DES could be fun), and it's faster to fetch those from memory than to build constants inline... which is what both gcc and clang do when left to their own devices.
< 1662928872 252397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :constants even
< 1662928903 418564 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So now I have a constant table as a global variable. And a dummy function that modifies it. What a hack.
< 1662928988 892745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> 2.385 / 2.930
< 1662928990 900283 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : 0.8139931740614333
< 1662929005 903207 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> 2.930 / 2.385 -- err, this way
< 1662929007 652808 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : 1.228511530398323
< 1662929015 142625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :23% speedup. Not negligible.
< 1662929402 995491 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But meh, surely that'a s thing the compiler could do for me...
< 1662929585 367365 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This, btw, also makes the difference between the code being faster than the 32 bit version, and slower than the 32 bit version.
< 1662929912 816368 :Everything!~Everythin@37.115.210.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1662930175 221165 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :What circumstances does adding 'volatile' to a C code make it faster?
< 1662930269 475202 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Will it help with what you have described (with DES)? Although, might that depend on the target computer, though?
< 1662930505 567784 :Guest33!~Guest33@dslb-178-001-250-120.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest33
< 1662930651 811372 :Guest33!~Guest33@dslb-178-001-250-120.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Client Quit
< 1662931939 212217 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Actually I'm unsure why this is making the code faster when movabsq exists? Having the constants in tables might relieve register pressure, hmm.
< 1662932178 781846 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1662933017 151792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :uhm, dear compiler, why do you do... movabsq $1229782938247303440, %r8; orq$1, %r8 ...instead of just the movabsq?
< 1662933030 68112 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(incremented by 1)
< 1662933254 717508 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: what are your compiler options?
< 1662933258 601718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah there are some stupid things going on here... the table-based code has 17 fewer instructions (114 instead of 131) for the actual computation... I wonder how it would perform with movabsq instead of those table loads
< 1662933279 709371 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :12.1.0 and 14.0.6, what Debian unstable has.
< 1662933290 69860 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :*options*
< 1662933292 613263 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I said options, not version
< 1662933296 86082 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :options
< 1662933299 12181 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :just -O3
< 1662933305 780705 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :thanks
< 1662933314 135877 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and yes, then that sounds odd
< 1662933347 3178 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: The actual constant in the code is 0x1111111111111111UL
< 1662933435 629985 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Have you ever added 'volatile' to C code to make code *faster*" => no. I've added volatile as a weak attempt to try to inhibit optimizations to measure the speed of some pure computation though.
< 1662933522 159017 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"So now I have a constant table as a global variable. And a dummy function that modifies it.
< 1662933546 981442 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" => with an alignas to page-align it?
< 1662933548 538743 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have once added volatile to a member of a structure to try to inhibit fast math optimizations for only that variable; I don't know if that is effective or if it is the only way to be done, though, or even if it is necessary
< 1662933581 717695 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I didn't bother with alignment. It'll be in cache anyway.
< 1662933629 928597 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you only need alignment if you have like a 16 or 32 byte array and you unaligned load sections from it. probably not the case for DES, but comes up elsewhere
< 1662933641 551655 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :can even be 64 bytes
< 1662933647 683186 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, *some* extra instructions are expected of course, because of m,r variants of instructions like andq c+8(%rip), %rdi
< 1662933660 492864 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(r,m if this were intel style)
< 1662933665 781486 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: is there maybe a jump targeting the orq instruction?
< 1662933684 167504 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: there's no label there, so nope
< 1662933696 332683 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm looking at -S output, not disassembly)
< 1662933717 363766 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah... some compilers emit numeric jumps, but you probably don't have that much these days
< 1662933738 541478 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no idea why the orq is there then
< 1662933742 216721 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
< 1662933758 112225 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe it's to set flags?
< 1662933760 481436 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :clear flags rather
< 1662933770 498778 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does it check flags in a later instruction without overwriting them?
< 1662933791 591118 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox
< 1662933796 656540 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :any flag other than carry
< 1662933803 541272 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so sign, zero, overflow
< 1662933833 588104 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :flag could come from different instructions in first loop iteration and later iterations
< 1662933854 833520 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :overflow flag is suspect, so look for signed comparisons
< 1662933858 682982 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's no direct way to clear it
< 1662933882 155006 :^[!~user@user//x-8473491 QUIT :Quit: ^[
< 1662933981 443138 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, the or instruction clears the carry flag too? ok
< 1662934014 802151 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it doesn't tear the flags to half
< 1662934025 965112 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1662934068 814497 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: my guess is, it wants to change the zero and/or sign and/or overflow flags for a later instruction
< 1662934310 723537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: here's some actual code (reduced, probably not minimal): http://paste.debian.net/1253549/
< 1662934410 873284 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I've seen a variant of that code where the 0x1111111111111110 value is actually used... and the orq $1, %rsi became lea 1(%rsi),%r10
< 1662934718 294689 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, it also fails to recognize the bit rotations.
< 1662935674 380748 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: ok, so it's not for flags either apparently
< 1662935719 551477 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no clue then
< 1662935845 151487 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :thanks
< 1662936027 957128 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe it wants a nop and picks a weird one
< 1662936043 599255 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's a very weird one to pick
< 1662936044 972019 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, it's beginning to look like most of the slowdown comes from needless multiplication of constants... having both 0x11...10 and 0x11...11 around when the latter would work for the former is unfortunate.
< 1662936101 629663 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it's hot code, try to rewrite it so it happens in a loop and the constants are loaded only once
< 1662936114 887348 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless there's like too few registers, but it doesn't seem like that there
< 1662936141 413381 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this may be a lea 1(%rsi), %rsi at some point.
< 1662936160 533410 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or something equivalent to that in an intermediate code
< 1662936175 402374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :regardless, it's weird.
< 1662936233 283046 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's also this pattern of replacing shifts by leas
< 1662936248 237323 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :cf. lines 57-59 in the paste
< 1662936254 910780 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it's on a critical path and actually makes your code worse (unlikely) and you can prove that by improving the assembly by hand, then you should report it as a compiler bug
< 1662937211 531589 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but only if you're willing to follow the project-specific instructions for how to report a bug, which, if you've seen bug trackers you'll know, apparently 90% of bug ticket writers can't)
< 1662937273 456119 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(people on the internet are annoying sometimes, omitting important information that they have from their bug tickets)
< 1662937388 26403 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's especially annoying when your co-workers do that for a work project so you can't just ignore their request)
< 1662939776 323169 :^[!~user@user//x-8473491 JOIN #esolangs ^[ :user