< 1662941059 139986 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1662942235 589825 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-52.play-internet.pl QUIT : < 1662943730 342730 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space JOIN #esolangs SoniEx2 :Genders: Autgender, 💜⬜💚; Soni L. < 1662951600 683031 :Taneb0!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1662951669 633950 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN #esolangs Taneb :Nathan van Doorn < 1662962873 476245 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1662963492 205935 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1662963746 513380 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck Encoded Concatenative Calculus14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103166&oldid=100083 5* 03Olus2000 5* (+31) 10Added to Tuiring Tarpits category < 1662963944 994284 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1662966521 607021 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1662966685 447621 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1662967626 834778 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1662967669 110349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1662967984 957233 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.35.161 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1662969813 35318 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.35.161 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1662970234 154376 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1662970704 961968 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.35.161 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1662971059 872088 :underpantsgnome[!~tinybronc@2001:470:69fc:105::2:1af6 JOIN #esolangs * :@tinybronca:sibnsk.net < 1662972707 228648 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1662972860 199993 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net JOIN #esolangs m5zs7k :m5zs7k < 1662973248 972441 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1662975991 98102 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1662979059 802103 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :he/him - IT, EN < 1662989568 562808 :Guest59!~Guest59@cpe-98-26-181-108.triad.res.rr.com JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest59 < 1662989597 135311 :Guest59!~Guest59@cpe-98-26-181-108.triad.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1662990478 517260 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1662993213 21880 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.35.161 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1662993220 49545 :razetime_!~quassel@117.254.34.50 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1662994735 215896 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662994922 305801 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1662994942 202884 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1662995493 789880 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1662995514 127637 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663000392 194409 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1663000610 121407 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1663001641 103667 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dot's14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103167&oldid=102961 5* 03Ilikecreepers 5* (+7) 10/* the complcated stuff */ < 1663003922 354558 :razetime_!~quassel@117.254.34.50 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1663004015 267529 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1663006362 842158 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1663006787 595798 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-52.play-internet.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1663006892 734356 :sebbu!~sebbu@user/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1663006928 577773 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1663007072 324768 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1663007866 713549 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: https://gist.github.com/int-e/1d9ec969b5de773b40b74aadab1ce620 is my DES experiment so far, the thing where I'm seeing a significant speedup from forcing the compiler to load constants from a table instead of generating them inline. This may very well depend on the CPU architecture though. < 1663008049 344600 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :For example, the same code with gcc-10.2.1 on an i7-6700 is far less dramatic, the difference is almost lost in the noise < 1663008101 272268 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(you can specify a C compiler with (rm main &&) make CC=...) < 1663008182 372193 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Also... DES. This is DES in ECB mode. Not what you should do in practice. But I'm (re-)learning about bit permutations, so that is fun.) < 1663008317 286404 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs : int-e: have you tried to compile with --march=native (or whatever cpu your target has)? < 1663008320 355341 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1663008396 379142 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1663008444 223078 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663008465 708243 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or maybe ask the gcc folks < 1663008486 340205 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life < 1663008500 811368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I have tried that; it makes the code slower in the case of clang; it seems to have no real effect for gcc. < 1663008565 430421 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: In the case of clang it does, however, eliminate the difference between the constant pool and non-constant pool versions of the 64 bit code... so that's something? < 1663008580 280944 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's all pretty weird. < 1663008693 412894 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1663008713 258574 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663009019 618842 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-52.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1663009180 475630 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not really important either. Noone needs DES :P < 1663009322 392121 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1663009344 117429 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663009593 442378 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1663009679 252640 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:4372:4803:df2c:7c5 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663009897 548126 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: do you think this is something the compiler does only for DES specifically? < 1663009939 226680 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:4372:4803:df2c:7c5 QUIT :Client Quit < 1663009959 177368 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663011035 302413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: well, it's unusually constant-rich bit manipulation code < 1663011084 76255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: something entirely different: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-binary-counter.png (counts backwards because carries are triggered on low -> high flanks) < 1663011274 825746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I imagine there are more compact designs that rely more heavily on the undefined state (which here is only used for the reset line) < 1663011308 533952 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehe, you optimized it < 1663011323 489693 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1663011337 829455 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't feel like I had to optimize it further than I did < 1663011344 563218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though there was a bit of synergy; the negator serves both for producing the next bit value and as part of the edge trigger < 1663011351 72578 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I made sure it's reliable and not taking up a huge area and stopped there < 1663011388 310177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :("the", there are two; I mean the one to the bottom,bottom,left of the monitor) < 1663011434 486968 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So, hmm. I could count foward if I switched the & for an | and switched the negator and delay (by transistor) before the next bit. < 1663011453 35156 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it'd fit in exactly the same layout. < 1663011582 711905 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I didn't spend much time on this... I had this idea (using a single memory cell with edge-triggered complement) running through my head and spent maybe 20 minutes on this. (I'd like to say 10 but time tends to pass quickly when doing these things) < 1663011602 639254 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: or you can count backwards but say it counts forwards because the 1 signal represents a 0 bit in your number and a 0 signal represents a 1 bit in your number. it's not like a negated representation is weird when you're building logic from low-level single-bit gates. < 1663011836 927103 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1663012283 457796 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, no, complementing would make the reset unreliable. Isn't that fun :) < 1663012324 359970 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But yeah, counting backwards is just fine for hub control purposes. < 1663012357 181792 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :just needs some care when choosing the counter value to reset to < 1663012535 913657 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: basically, since undefined counts as 0, with &, undefined inhibits carrys; with | it wouldn't and that causes... interesting effects. < 1663012928 625630 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1663013579 347117 :tech_exorcist!~tech_exor@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting < 1663015316 65463 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-124.play-internet.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1663016004 463160 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1663016564 196326 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1663016584 233750 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf > 1663016645 34680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bidiroop14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103168&oldid=101982 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+36) 10Fixed indentation in brainfuck interpreter < 1663016835 745731 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1663016856 165533 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663017019 819900 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I reset to zero because it's not hard to change what counter value to look for to trigger the flush. the comparison can run at high latency, since if it does you just decrease the target number that you compare to. it's the increment that has to run fast. < 1663017156 56311 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1663017165 833110 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but also you can do the comparison with low latency, because you can make a many-input logical-or gate that runs in a bounded number of ticks if you just convert the zero inputs to undefineds with transistors < 1663017206 258401 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I think it's worth to make the reset as simple as your accumulator lets you get away with < 1663017224 914996 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :build the accumulator first, figure out what the easiest way is to reset it, including using conflicts < 1663017252 810115 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :like just EMP the circuits by suddenly transistoring both a 0 and a 1 into all its parts, bam, reset < 1663017266 953162 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and that's just worst case, usually you can do it easier than that > 1663017539 279068 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:BoundedBeans14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103169&oldid=103155 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+317) 10Majorly reorganized languages into "families" < 1663018426 685526 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: ah but it's easier to wait for the carry to flush out... less worry about the propagation time through the counter < 1663018494 245107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: and in the little design I have there, the reset value is stored in constant signals. they could even be buttons instead. < 1663018548 792104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's really just a sketch though; I'm not going to use this for anything < 1663018964 168374 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1663018984 224034 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf > 1663019062 188646 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07C@14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103170&oldid=101981 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (-2) 10fixed unimplemented category < 1663019235 856095 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1663019258 155361 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663020543 34670 :sprout_!~quassel@2a02-a467-ccd6-1-5d7-efa6-4923-d78e.fixed6.kpn.net JOIN #esolangs * :sprout < 1663020746 907933 :sprout!~quassel@2a02-a467-ccd6-1-858b-1b45-8391-2a8d.fixed6.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1663020850 706282 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, your crazy lockstep design doesn't need it < 1663020869 829762 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-4-17.catv.fixed.vodafone.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nor would I need a counter if I just used splitteers < 1663021539 11948 :FreeFull!~freefull@user-5-173-154-124.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1663021593 320242 :sprout_!~quassel@2a02-a467-ccd6-1-5d7-efa6-4923-d78e.fixed6.kpn.net NICK :sprout < 1663021664 215075 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1663021686 159658 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663021935 784716 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1663021956 198226 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663023764 267501 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1663023786 132452 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663024035 604726 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit < 1663024056 162640 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663024364 212024 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1663024384 156310 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf > 1663024440 526371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Seemingly Unrelated 5* 10New user account > 1663024597 953604 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103171&oldid=103144 5* 03Seemingly Unrelated 5* (+84) 10/* Introductions */ < 1663024635 522403 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Client Quit > 1663024636 242229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103172&oldid=103171 5* 03Seemingly Unrelated 5* (+101) 10/* Introductions */ < 1663024657 160702 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 JOIN #esolangs impomatic :John Metcalf < 1663025326 284446 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fac:e001:6808:b3d0:aff7:7983 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1663025816 555269 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 JOIN #esolangs salpynx :[https://web.libera.chat] salpynx > 1663025912 774333 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DFA-er Finite State Automaton Proof14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103173&oldid=92331 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10Link to DFA-er < 1663025977 986610 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've just realised that 2 reg Minsky machines use a different set of instructions (minimum 3) from 3 or more register ones (minimum 2). This seems to be a common misunderstanding / easy mistake to make. < 1663025995 440684 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was trying to use Portable Minsky Machine Notation for creating 2 register program machines, and realised it can't. Not without 3 registers. < 1663026009 35800 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's more like 3 cell bf. It's why 3 cell bf is TC, and 2 cell isn't. < 1663026051 56059 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are a number of wiki TC 'proofs' which are wrong because of this misconception: < 1663026058 842591 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :2Swap, Minsky Swap (ha, I wrote the faulty 'proof' for that one :( ), Yoctostack < 1663026080 730500 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Autopsy TC proof appears to use 2 reg MM, but has 4 unbounded regs available, so the proof is flawed, but the langauge still seems TC. < 1663026145 707450 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :possibly others... anything that relies on a limit of 2 registers, and only using the obvious MM 2 commands: inc and dec+conditional < 1663026173 232133 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The naming is confusing; naming 2 different machines the same thing. There's also the 1 register TC machine Minsky mentions, but for some reason it's clearer that that one has different 'extra' instructions. < 1663026211 888817 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Minsky does say it: "For our purposes here it is more convenient to assume that we have [a'], [a-(n)], and [go(n)] at the start. Then ... (rest of 2reg TC proof)" on p. 256 , but it's not emphasised. < 1663026233 657471 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Re-reading Minsky (p.207), his explicit mention of a TC 3 reg machine requires the extra 'go(n)' instruction to eliminate the wasteful w. A 'normal' 2 instruction 3 reg Minsky machine is only TC because it can simulate a 3 instruction 2 reg described in chapter 14. < 1663026531 134774 :salpynx!~salpynx@151.210.163.158 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I needed to vent. now I can move on to something else.