←2022-09-18 2022-09-19 2022-09-20→ ↑2022 ↑all
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04:24:15 <esolangs> [[Counterfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103375&oldid=103218 * Salpynx * (+86) Add implementation
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09:51:16 <esolangs> [[NFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103376&oldid=67030 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+162) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the NFuck programming language on GitHub.
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09:54:36 <esolangs> [[NFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103377&oldid=103376 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+276) Reformatted the command table and added the brainfuck input/output instructions , and ., their omission seems rather a lapsus than an intention.
09:55:07 <esolangs> [[NFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103378&oldid=103377 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+247) Added categories to the page.
09:57:21 <esolangs> [[NFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103379&oldid=103378 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+114) Added a See also section with a reference to the language 4DChess.
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11:03:58 <esolangs> [[Conom]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103380&oldid=102895 * TTG-Emily * (-95) Fixed updated bytecode format
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11:10:21 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy/vector.css]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103381 * Xyzzy * (+130) Created page with "body,.mw-page-container,.mw-body{ background-color:gray; } *{font-family:monospace } p,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,a,pre,code{ color:white }"
11:13:26 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy/vector.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103382&oldid=103381 * Xyzzy * (-100)
11:13:44 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy/vector.css]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103383&oldid=103382 * Xyzzy * (-30) Blanked the page
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11:16:45 <esolangs> [[Conom]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103384&oldid=103380 * TTG-Emily * (+168) Added information about multi-module "linkage"
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11:34:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ilikecreepers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103385&oldid=101752 * Ilikecreepers * (+16)
11:35:29 <esolangs> [[User:Ilikecreepers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103386&oldid=101683 * Ilikecreepers * (+30)
11:45:45 <esolangs> [[Dot's]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103387&oldid=103167 * Ilikecreepers * (+1) /* the hold on to your stuff it's going to get more complcated stuff/multi operations */
13:04:49 <esolangs> [[NFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103388&oldid=103379 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1276) Added a description of the architecture and inserted an introductory paragraph preceding the commands.
13:05:42 <esolangs> [[NFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103389&oldid=103388 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-1) Amended an orthographic mistake.
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13:58:46 <wib_jonas> TIL about Magic: the Gathering. 1. There were only ever two cards printed with "islandhome" used as a keyword ability. Kukemssa Serpent and Manta Ray. I didn't know about either and thought this was an unofficial nickname of the mechanic that was never printed on a card.
13:58:49 <wib_jonas> The exact number seems to be secret, mentions of landhome on the web only say that very few cards were printed with the ability and that their oracle text was later changed away from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magic:_The_Gathering_keywords#Landhome avoids the number in a hilarious way while mentioning both cards.
14:01:05 <int-e> wib_jonas: can you guess what this does? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-device.png (the thing behind the diode is an extractor making squares)
14:01:28 <wib_jonas> 2. While Cogmentor from Unstable is so far the only 1/1 flier with no drawback for {1}, there's one card that's pretty close: https://scryfall.com/card/aer/154/hope-of-ghirapur which is legendary.
14:01:52 <int-e> ugh, "diode"?! I mean negator.
14:02:13 <int-e> Sure, they're both triangles of sorts but that's a sad excuse.
14:02:36 <wib_jonas> hehe
14:03:10 <wib_jonas> so those gates form a two-ways edge trigger, which is unusual
14:04:01 <int-e> hmm? no, it's a falling edge trigger.
14:04:52 <wib_jonas> what? there's an xor gate in it. you're xoring a signal with its negation, the negation being delayed one cycle.
14:05:06 <wib_jonas> is that not how that works?
14:05:19 <int-e> Nah, that's the or.
14:05:27 <wib_jonas> oh
14:05:33 <wib_jonas> why does it say + on it then?
14:05:42 <wib_jonas> oops
14:06:07 <int-e> I don't know. The xor has a circle around the plus though and a more elaborate bottom curve (bottom in that oriantation)
14:06:28 <wib_jonas> you're right, yes
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14:06:54 <int-e> It's a relatable mistake... I assume you haven't actually played in a while.
14:07:11 <wib_jonas> yes
14:07:15 <int-e> (and I made the thing which is always an advantage)
14:08:21 <wib_jonas> anyway, if it's an edge trigger, I think it's for opening the gate into the storage for exactly one tick. that could lock up if the input wasn't full
14:09:06 <wib_jonas> but here you have a matter creator so it will hopefully always be full
14:09:33 <wib_jonas> except maybe after loading the game if it loses items at the wrong part, I don't know
14:09:46 <wib_jonas> and then the shapes have nowhere to go so it will fill up quickly after just a few shapes
14:10:18 <wib_jonas> so I guess it's a shape source with a counter signal going out, but what that's for I don't know
14:11:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JoshJWright * New user account
14:13:25 <int-e> Yeah it's about lost items; it triggers once when you reload the world... the painter loses one item (in a batch that's waiting for the corresponding color).
14:13:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103390&oldid=103371 * JoshJWright * (+185) /* Introductions */
14:14:19 <int-e> (that's why it's a painter... it has to be something with more than one input. a stacker would also work. single-input production units lose more items than just one.)
14:14:29 <wib_jonas> oh!
14:14:38 <wib_jonas> but the input won't lock up because it loses items at the input?
14:15:13 <wib_jonas> why do you need an edge trigger to control the gate? why not just use the edge trigger as output and open the gate when the storage is empty?
14:15:25 <wib_jonas> s/when the storage is empty/while the storage is empty/
14:15:56 <int-e> It's locked up as is, that's the design. But when an item is lost, the storage becomes empty, that's the falling edge. And at that time, it gets refilled with one item.
14:16:11 <int-e> Releasing more than one would be fatal, so the edge trigger is needed for that.
14:16:37 <int-e> "fatal"... it would take more than one reload to empty the storage.
14:17:05 <int-e> Anyway. I /might/ actually have a use for this.
14:17:32 <int-e> Because reloading resets the accounting interval for the shape delivery rate.
14:17:52 <wib_jonas> int-e: yes, but I mean won't the filter ever lose an item so it can't let anything through in the one tick where it would be allowed to?
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14:18:37 <int-e> Somehow, filters don't lose items.
14:19:17 <int-e> ("somehow"... they don't have any internal buffers at all, just pending input and output items, and those are saved.)
14:19:40 <wib_jonas> int-e: hmm, you use the edge trigger so that only one item is let in. makes sense.
14:20:24 <int-e> And the pending input item will already be there when you load the game... unless you load and save in extremely close succession.
14:21:45 <wib_jonas> but why do you need a storage for it then? could you also use just an item creator, a speed meter, and a painter? I know I said earlier that storages are usually better for control than speed meters (wasn't that hypocrisy? I have one storage used for control in the freeplay shape counter, and several speed meters to implement priority merges to the
14:21:46 <wib_jonas> hub and for the museum), but this seems to be one of the few cases when a speed meter would work.
14:22:07 <int-e> the storage is a fast detector
14:22:16 <int-e> as you taught me :)
14:22:47 <wib_jonas> int-e: wait, are you worried that the speed meter won't work if you save and load multiple times within a second?
14:22:50 <int-e> also the ordinary detector loses items.
14:23:14 <wib_jonas> alternately, could you drop the gate, have the storage be full, and let the output signal be an edge trigger on when the storage just became empty?
14:23:18 <int-e> wib_jonas: no, I want to detect the reload faster than within a second
14:23:43 <int-e> And the speed meter will keep the high signal for a second.
14:24:01 <int-e> And somehow that appears to get saved.
14:24:30 <wib_jonas> right, so you add an edge trigger on it. doesn't it still turn high immediately when an item passes through, it's just slow to clear its signal output?
14:24:41 <int-e> (I have not looked into the speedmeter code)
14:24:56 <wib_jonas> meh, you're probably right about not using the speed meter\
14:25:05 <wib_jonas> the storage is more reliable
14:25:05 <int-e> yes, but I'm waiting for the item to leave the storage-as-detector
14:25:40 <int-e> so that is the 1 -> 0 transition which the speed meter delays.
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14:25:49 <wib_jonas> er
14:26:21 <wib_jonas> yes, so look only at the 0->1 transition of the output signal of the speed meter
14:26:36 <int-e> There won't be one?
14:26:36 <wib_jonas> still, a storage is probably better
14:26:51 <int-e> I don't know where you want to put the speed meter
14:26:58 <wib_jonas> what? why not? aren't the signals in wires saved?
14:27:16 <int-e> there's only a new item arriving because the falling edge is detected first
14:28:00 <wib_jonas> let's forget the speed meter first. could you use a storage but without the gate, such that the storage is usually full but becomes empty for a short time when the painter loses an item?
14:28:46 <int-e> Oh you mean using the top output instead? I didn't want to wait for it to fill up.
14:28:58 <int-e> But using the top output would /probably/ work.
14:29:19 <wib_jonas> ah ok
14:29:46 <wib_jonas> yes, it takes over four minutes to fill it IIRC
14:30:07 <int-e> > 5000/40
14:30:09 <wib_jonas> no wait, just two minutes
14:30:09 <lambdabot> 125.0
14:30:19 <wib_jonas> right
14:30:29 <int-e> > 5000/4 -- but I'm actually at speedup 1 :P
14:30:31 <lambdabot> 1250.0
14:30:46 <int-e> (no particular reason, just a side effect of cheating)
14:32:04 <int-e> The main advantage is that I can test designs at all speeds... create design, save, test a bunch while buying upgrades with the stored upgrade items (also cheated), then kill the game so the savegame is back at speed 1.
14:32:23 <int-e> I should probably implement a reset feature for the upgrades instead :P
14:32:34 <int-e> But I have a *workflow* there.
14:32:59 <wib_jonas> you're at speedup 1 (almost impossible for belts because completing level 1 also lets you upgrade your belt speed) and then say that you don't do something because it's slow
14:33:13 <int-e> (this is why I emphasized "workflow": https://xkcd.com/1172/ )
14:33:34 <int-e> wib_jonas: I also want it to work at speedups up to 10.
14:33:46 <int-e> (I don't really care much beyond that point because things get weird)
14:34:34 <int-e> Starting with the fact that between 10 and about 11.9, extraction and production are stuck at 10. Then they jump to 12.
14:34:50 <int-e> Also 10 is where I got to in my own regular playthrough.
14:35:14 <int-e> (I had a couple more upgrades saved up but didn't like them.)
14:36:28 <wib_jonas> hmm, is that xkcd still the canonical example for that, or has My Little Pony: FIM S6 E10 obsoleted it?
14:37:45 <int-e> Belts do get faster, and if you have a long belt that was filled at 10x speedup, and you increase speedups to 11, it'll look like you get the full 22/s speed from production... but only until the first newly produced items arrive.
14:37:46 <esolangs> [[Ternareso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=103391 * JoshJWright * (+2817) Initial Page
14:38:17 <int-e> Well, as I said, it's weird. And surprising given how accurate the game is up to 10x speedup.
14:39:07 <int-e> (except for the odd throughput boost provided by mergers and balancers)
14:39:19 <wib_jonas> anyway, I think anything below 8 times speedup is unrealistic for freeplay and it's not worth to test your machines for it; and if your machines are break when the upgrade speeds differ among belt, stack, paint, then there's no point to check for anything below 6 times speedup, since below that there's nothing that makes players upgrade together
14:39:20 <wib_jonas> for the three
14:39:32 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103392&oldid=103370 * JoshJWright * (+16) /* T */ Add Ternareso language to list.
14:40:15 <int-e> The main appeal is to actually see an MAM in slow motion.
14:40:39 <int-e> (transitioning between products)
14:40:40 <wib_jonas> hmm
14:40:44 <wib_jonas> I see
14:41:18 <int-e> now if the game had a slow motion feature... there's a mod for that I think, I should try that.
14:42:17 <wib_jonas> yes, that would certainly be useful, as well as a pause and single-step feature
14:42:44 <wib_jonas> but it shouldn't change the speedups, it should instead increase the min delays between frames while keeping the simulation the same as on high speed
14:43:40 <int-e> The game is tick-based. And it already has a slow motion "feature" of sorts where you just build 50k buildings to reduce the tick rate :P
14:44:15 <int-e> (Or whatever. it's not a recommended approach, I just experienced it involuntarily, with a ~2x slowdown)
14:44:36 <wib_jonas> sure, but a feature to control it explicitly and quickly would be useful
14:44:56 <wib_jonas> so you could pause or single-step or change the speed dynamicaly
14:49:40 <int-e> right
14:52:49 <int-e> https://shapez.old.mod.io/speed-control-05-20 hmm, very mised reviews though.
14:52:53 <int-e> *mixed
14:53:17 <wib_jonas> I have played a Factorio world running at 4x speed for a short while. The most annoying part of that is that if a belt is full and consumed at full speed then it appears to not move, since the base throughput of belts in Factorio is normally 15/s or 30/s and the monitor framerate is 60/s. shapez at fast speedup can be similarly annoying, with belts
14:53:17 <wib_jonas> that appear to move backwards.
14:53:50 <int-e> Yeah I've had that.
14:54:10 <int-e> Partly because the frame rate drops to 30 quite easily.
14:57:20 <wib_jonas> good thing shapez.io has the UI setting to show the last item that passed through a building (other than belts) when you mouse over it, because when I want to debug why my machine produces the wrong thing, seeing the shape on a fast moving belt can be almost impossible
14:57:56 <wib_jonas> sure, you can stop the belt, or insert a speedometer plus signal display, but this is easier
15:00:43 <int-e> speedometer + monitor are nice for watching a messy belt... making out items on a moving belt is hard.
15:01:19 <int-e> depends on what you're looking for of course... the monitor won't give you time to inspect a single shape either (unless you build a circuit for that)
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17:38:28 <zzo38> My opinion is that the new "ravenous" keyword ability of Magic: the Gathering is badly designed, compared with other keyword abilities (such as "bands with other").
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18:16:01 <esolangs> [[NFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103393&oldid=103389 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+129) Added an examples section with an infinitely repeating cat program as its incipient member.
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19:37:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Quantodeluz * New user account
19:52:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=103394&oldid=103390 * Quantodeluz * (+349)
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