00:55:00 <esolangs> [[A pi e]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104487&oldid=104324 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+17) Stub, WIP
00:57:56 <esolangs> [[APLWSI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104488&oldid=71613 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+105) Add categories
01:28:26 <HackEso> A monoid is the easy version of a category.
01:45:00 <esolangs> [[CompressedBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104489&oldid=104089 * Joe * (+520)
01:45:47 <esolangs> [[CompressedBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104490&oldid=104489 * Joe * (+2)
01:47:00 <esolangs> [[CompressedBF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104491&oldid=104490 * Joe * (+10)
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04:41:45 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like duck chess?
04:42:33 <zzo38> I have not played it, but I know how it is played. (I have not played chess much at all recently)
04:42:51 <zzo38> I like that idea, though.
04:46:01 <b_jonas> shachaf: I'm disappointed about it. if it has a rubber duck, bishops should be able to move bouncing from it. they can't. ok, but then they should have used different flavor than a rubber duck.
04:50:15 <zzo38> I am unlikely to use an actual rubber duck, since I do not have one of the correct size for the chess board that I have, but I can use something else instead, such as dice. (In a tournament, they probably should use the duck but then they would have a suitable duck for that purpose, I suppose, maybe)
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04:58:29 <b_jonas> try duck typing then. if you don't have a real duck, substitute any piece that moves every turn like a duck and quacks like a duck and can't capture like a duck
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08:28:59 <esolangs> [[Asmlang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104492 * Xyzzy * (+585) Created page with "{{WIP}} {{Stub}} Asmlang is an Work-in-progress language. Here is the concept file: <code> Instruction set F is an adress,pointing to an 8-bit value. W is an 8-bit accumulator. Stack have 2 levels :) 0<=b<8 Add,And,Or,Subtract,XOR W with F to D Rotate left/right thru carry
08:29:14 <esolangs> [[Asmlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104493&oldid=104492 * Xyzzy * (+13)
08:29:28 <esolangs> [[Asmlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104494&oldid=104493 * Xyzzy * (-15)
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09:18:21 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104495&oldid=103741 * Pro465 * (-232) /* Commands */
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09:24:54 <esolangs> [[User:Mario0Fan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104496&oldid=104471 * Mario0Fan * (+36) /* Things i made related to esolangs: */
09:25:29 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104497&oldid=104495 * Pro465 * (+51) /* Turing Completeness */
09:26:40 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104498&oldid=104497 * Pro465 * (+3) /* Cat */
09:28:43 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104499&oldid=104485 * Mario0Fan * (+163) () command
09:29:14 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104500&oldid=104499 * Mario0Fan * (+10) /* Other */
09:31:22 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104501&oldid=104500 * Mario0Fan * (+1) Moved "Equal to" to Logic gates
09:33:02 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104502&oldid=104501 * Mario0Fan * (+3)
09:34:18 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104503&oldid=104502 * Mario0Fan * (-2) fixed logic gates
09:35:29 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104504&oldid=104503 * Mario0Fan * (+27) Added an example for XNOR
09:42:19 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104505&oldid=104504 * Mario0Fan * (+200) Even more randomized truth machine
10:21:25 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104506&oldid=104498 * Pro465 * (-290) /* IO endianness */
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11:59:51 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104507&oldid=104506 * Pro465 * (-140) /* Hello world */
12:01:05 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104508&oldid=104507 * Pro465 * (-9) /* Truth Machine */
12:05:13 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104509&oldid=104508 * Pro465 * (+520) /* Notes */
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12:10:13 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104510&oldid=104509 * Pro465 * (+41) /* Commands */
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13:25:36 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104511&oldid=104510 * Pro465 * (-41) /* Commands */
13:43:13 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104512&oldid=104505 * Mario0Fan * (+10)
13:43:29 <esolangs> [[ThueLike]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104513&oldid=104512 * Mario0Fan * (+1) /* Functions */
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13:59:38 <HackEso> 97) <fungot> [...] i'm a law student so i am loving my bread machine
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15:19:46 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104514&oldid=104401 * Z Z * (+5) /* define */
15:19:56 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104515&oldid=104514 * Z Z * (-1) /* define */
15:21:00 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104516&oldid=104515 * Z Z * (+0) /* Array++ (same, but no comments) */
15:21:14 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104517&oldid=104516 * Z Z * (+0) /* Array++ */
15:25:42 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104518&oldid=104517 * Z Z * (+42) /* Reserved symbols */
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15:43:26 <esolangs> [[MineStax]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104519&oldid=104451 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) /* Classification */ Category
15:45:00 <esolangs> [[NucleotideBF (nBF)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104520&oldid=74538 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+11) /* Python Implementation */ Fix formatting
15:52:57 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104521&oldid=104511 * Pro465 * (+22) /* The [if_num|else_num] command */
16:01:07 <esolangs> [[Array++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104522&oldid=104518 * Z Z * (+611) /* Reserved symbols */
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16:29:16 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104523&oldid=104522 * Z Z * (+13) /* Array++ */
16:30:34 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104524&oldid=104523 * Z Z * (+15) /* Array++ (same, but no comments) */
16:31:01 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104525&oldid=104524 * Z Z * (+2) /* Array++ */
16:31:10 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104526&oldid=104525 * Z Z * (+1) /* Array++ (same, but no comments) */
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16:35:23 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104527&oldid=104526 * Z Z * (+90)
16:37:57 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104528&oldid=104527 * Z Z * (+27) /* Reserved symbols */
16:39:49 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104529&oldid=104528 * Z Z * (+16) /* Examples */
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21:58:10 <zzo38> I typed "cd prg" and I got the message: "bash: cd: write error: Success" The command worked despite the error message, and I cannot reproduce it.
22:00:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: is prg a symlink, or did bash track symbolic links in your pwd, or do you have any I/O errors for a file system in your kernel log, or are NFS involved?
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22:08:20 <int-e> LOL '$BASH_VERSION prints "bash: 4.2.37(1)-release: command not found".' https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/116381/why-did-bash-print-bash-cd-write-error-success
22:09:27 <int-e> (Fun one, I've never seen an error like that.)
22:10:47 <shachaf> There are claims on the Internet that if you use Reed-Solomon in GF(2^k), you can only have 2^k - 1 point, rather than 2^k points.
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22:11:05 <shachaf> But I'm not sure why you can't have 2^k points? Am I missing something?
22:11:13 <zzo38> It is not a symlink, there are no I/O errors for that file system in the kernel log, and NFS is not involved.
22:14:20 <shachaf> Looking at the bash source, it looks like this is a write error (ferror) to stdout.
22:14:46 <shachaf> Do you have something special going on?
22:15:00 <shachaf> Also do you have POSIXLY_CORRECT enabled?
22:21:47 <int-e> well, this is cute: cd / --> bash: PWD: readonly variable
22:22:07 <int-e> `` readonly PWD=/; cd /
22:22:09 <HackEso> /hackenv/bin/`: line 5: PWD: readonly variable
22:24:49 <int-e> anyway, which bash version is that, and does it have custom patches, and also, are there any interesting PROMPT_COMMAND shenanigans etc. pp.
22:36:33 <shachaf> I didn't even know about this.
22:37:06 <int-e> shachaf: I think that RS thing is a [citation needed], despite the fact that using 0... which just gives the constant coefficient... intuitively is a bit strange
22:38:19 <shachaf> I just tried it out with GF(4) for a 2+2 code.
22:39:24 <shachaf> You can make an encoding matrix like [[1 0][0 1][1 1][1 s+1]] and every choice of two rows from that matrix is invertible.
22:39:49 <int-e> sure, it's "just" linear algebra at work
22:40:38 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandermonde_matrix has non-zero determinant if the x_i are all distinct; there's no need for them to be non-zero
22:43:48 <shachaf> Wait, there's no way having zeros in the matrix can work, is there?
22:44:06 <shachaf> A 0 wouldn't let you reconstruct the data if you lose one data shard and all but one parity shards.
22:46:41 <int-e> I think we have slightly different formulations of RS codes in mind
22:47:41 <int-e> In the pure formulation, all matrix rows have the form [1,a,a^2,...,a^(n-1)]; there's no identity matrix portion.
22:47:59 <int-e> and in that formulation you can take a = 0.
22:48:19 <shachaf> I see, you're thinking of a non-systematic code?
22:48:49 <shachaf> Actually, I'm still confused.
22:48:58 <shachaf> Oh, never mind, not confused.
22:49:07 <shachaf> This is just the same as the first row of the identity matrix, of course.
22:50:04 <int-e> I'm not quite sure how the systematic formulation works... I guess you just start with the systematic one and do Gaussian elimination on top? And that'll ensure that the non-identity matrix rows mix all the data.
22:50:16 <shachaf> Systematic codes seem pretty good, though. Is there ever a reason not to use them?
22:50:34 <int-e> The error correction may be harder?
22:51:01 <int-e> "harder"... it'll just be a linear transformation away no matter what you do.
22:52:12 <shachaf> Hmm, it's probably mostly that I'm used to applications where errors/erasures are rare, and you want encoding to be fast and decoding in the no-error case to be fast.
22:52:46 <shachaf> I guess as errors get more common you start to care about decoding more, and then maybe that's more important.
22:53:47 <b_jonas> is this again about that thing we were talking about some days or weeks or months ago? I think it's still in the channel logs
22:53:52 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed-Solomon_error_correction#Systematic_encoding_procedure:_The_message_as_an_initial_sequence_of_values ...yeah right, you can describe it as doing (Lagrange) interpolation followed by evaluation.
22:54:10 <shachaf> A natural way to get a systematic code is to fit a polynomial to n point and then generate p more points.
22:54:59 <int-e> the (A's left square submatrix)^-1 A variant would apply to any linear code (provided that matrix is invertible)
22:55:11 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-10.html#lrt
22:56:19 <int-e> shachaf: anyway, now it becomes a question of which points you used for interpolation... you don't have to re-evaluate the polynomial for those, and 0 is likely to be one of them because it makes the process a tiny bit cheaper.
22:57:06 <int-e> b_jonas: looks similar, but the RS angle is new
23:10:06 <b_jonas> yes, that would make sense
23:10:23 <shachaf> Oh, also, is there a simple way to do error correction (rather than erasures) with Reed-Solomon?
23:10:39 <shachaf> For n+2 encoding, correcting one error is easy.
23:10:48 <shachaf> But it seems like it's much more complicated for correcting multiple errors.
23:15:40 <shachaf> (I'm thinking of systematic codes here again.)
23:16:22 <int-e> well it looks like the first thing they do is to undo the interpolation step?
23:16:58 <int-e> (looking at the end of that wikipedia page, i.e. the Berlekamp-Welch and Gao stuff)
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23:26:17 <shachaf> Oh, hmm, this Berlekamp-Welch thing looks simpler than Berlekamp-Massey.
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23:46:19 <shachaf> It's funny that for matrices over GF(2^k), the determinant is equal to the permanent.
23:54:17 <int-e> what's really funny is how useless that fact is for computing the permanent
23:55:52 <shachaf> I tend to think that computing the permanent is really hard, which I guess is why it's funny that it's easy in this case.
23:55:56 <int-e> Q is the corresponding field. So we can pick that.